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Chevy Slyme posted:It’s gonna rock and stone.
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Jul 21, 2023 21:53
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:31 |
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mbe'ke dwarves best dwarves
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Jul 21, 2023 22:04
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My group's AV team is Human Fighter Human Alchemist Fleshwarp Investigator Android Gunslinger Nagaji Swashbuckler
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Jul 22, 2023 00:19
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I got moon moon.
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Jul 22, 2023 00:25
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Goons, I'm new to PF2E. I didn't care about PF1E because lol another 3.x edition, but after I learned that 2E incorporated a lot of D&D 4E-like design concepts, I got into it. At this point I'm just building characters for fun, because I don't know where to find games these days besides the TG recruiting thread, which is pretty dead. Suggestions for where to find games are appreciated. I'm trying to build a wild shape-focused druid at the moment, and I have a few questions: The first question is regarding the free archetype variant rule: I am wanting to take the marshall archetype, which requires proficiency in martial weapons. Druids only get simple weapon proficiency. If I wanted to use the free archetype variant and take the marshall archetype at level 2 as a free archetype, it seems like I would have to play a human in order to get a general feat to take weapon proficiency at level 1, because otherwise your first general feat is level 3. Am I more or less correct in that thinking? If I don't use the free archetype, I can wait until level 3 to get weapon proficiency and take the archetype at level 4. Second, a rule question: I'm looking at power attack and flurry of blows, and I'm not quite sure what the difference between "This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty" and "Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally" is. My understanding is that your first attack rolls at full attack bonus, and the second is at a -5 (usually) penalty. So, presumably, with flurry of blows, you roll two attacks at full bonus and -5. How does power attack differ from that? Does it differ? It feels like it's just talking about if you want to make a third attack after, you'll be making it at the usual -10 penalty associated with a third attack per round. I don't understand why the language is different for the two seemingly-very-similar abilities. Also, has there ever been any clarification on whether wild shape forms are supposed to be able to grapple, trip, etc? Seems like it's been an ambiguous area rules-wise for at least a few years, but I can't find anything recent on whether there's been any errata or whatever since the question was first raised. Now for some thoughts that aren't really questions, but thoughts that maybe I have the wrong idea about that others could correct me on: Druid orders seem a little weird and inconsistently designed. A couple (leaf, storm) provide an extra focus point, while most don't. Even if you want to focus on wild shape, it feels far better to start as leaf order and dip into wild order with the order explorer feat. Plus wild morph is a garbage spell that directly competes with your focus point uses for wild shape. Aside from the ability to fly while casting for all of one minute, I cannot think of a good reason to ever use wild morph over wild shape. I love it conceptually, but mechanically it seems like hot garbage. Plus I love familiars, so leaf order with a dip into wild order is fine by me. I'm kind of bummed about how feat-intensive focusing on wild shape is. If you want to be able to do cool stuff, it requires investiture of basically all of your class feats. This is partly why I'm looking at the free archetype variant, so I can still have something interesting besides just wild shape feats. Druids get absolute rear end for skills, which is a bummer. I feel like you can barely get anything beyond the skills a druid is expected to take. But they're full casters, so gotta have some cons somewhere?  It seems like some people have used multiclass druids to build wild shape melee characters, but for whatever reason I can't find the build(s) I remember having seen anymore. I honestly don't care that much about the full caster aspects of the druid--I just really like wild shape-style gimmicks. I know there's the animal rage barbarian, but that doesn't really scratch the same itch. And since multiclass druids don't get access to higher-end class features, multiclass druid wild shapes are probably pretty meh anyway. So this is a long-winded way of saying that druid is still probably my best bet for the gimmick. Sorry for the ramble. I've been trying to figure out how to bring this stuff up in a more cohesive format, but I'm just kind of fried.
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Jul 22, 2023 04:55
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My list of foundry modules running on V10, running the official abomination vaults module: Dice So Nice! Drag Ruler - this makes movement much easier for basically everyone, highly recommend Health Estimate libWrapper Party Overview Pathmuncher PF2e Companion Compendia PF2e Dailies - also offers some good qol features in general on top of the dailies stuff PF2e Drag Ruler Integration - see above PF2e Exploration Effects pf2e Extempore Effects PF2e Workbench - there's a hero point tracker macro in this which is nice to use/remind you when to hand them out PopOut! - open subwindows in new browser tabs, must have imo Quick Insert Show Art Token Action HUD Core Token Action HUD Pathfinder 2e Token Frames Tokenizer
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Jul 22, 2023 05:04
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Dick Burglar posted:Second, a rule question: I'm looking at power attack and flurry of blows, and I'm not quite sure what the difference between "This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty" and "Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally" is. My understanding is that your first attack rolls at full attack bonus, and the second is at a -5 (usually) penalty. So, presumably, with flurry of blows, you roll two attacks at full bonus and -5. How does power attack differ from that? Does it differ? It feels like it's just talking about if you want to make a third attack after, you'll be making it at the usual -10 penalty associated with a third attack per round. I don't understand why the language is different for the two seemingly-very-similar abilities. You understand the mechanics perfectly. It's different because -10 (after Power Attack) is a huge penalty to the point where it's usually pointless to even try making an attack with that, while -5 (after the first attack from Flurry of Blows) is merely 'pretty low chance to hit'. Roadie fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jul 22, 2023 |
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Jul 22, 2023 05:18
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Dick Burglar posted:Second, a rule question: I'm looking at power attack and flurry of blows, and I'm not quite sure what the difference between "This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty" and "Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally" is. My understanding is that your first attack rolls at full attack bonus, and the second is at a -5 (usually) penalty. So, presumably, with flurry of blows, you roll two attacks at full bonus and -5. How does power attack differ from that? Does it differ? It feels like it's just talking about if you want to make a third attack after, you'll be making it at the usual -10 penalty associated with a third attack per round. I don't understand why the language is different for the two seemingly-very-similar abilities. Those two actions serve different purposes. Power attack is two actions for one attack at (presumably) your highest attack bonus with the benefit being you get to add more damage dice. Flurry of Blows is one action to do two attacks at your regular bonus and MAP. One focuses on getting more value out of your most likely to hit attack, one focuses on action economy.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:24
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All of you have parties with crazy ancestries my strength of thousands group is two elves, a human, and a dwarf
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Jul 22, 2023 05:46
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Epi Lepi posted:Those two actions serve different purposes. Ah, I misread power attack's description. I thought it was making two attacks, not one. Derp. Another wild shape related question: wild shape forms don't make "weapon" or "unarmed" strikes, do they? So feats like celestial strikes would not, RAW, apply to wild shape attacks, right? Wild shape is jank in every edition of D&D, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it's jank in a not-D&D offshoot.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:51
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which is to say that if you have both, flurry is better for low AC targets because you get more swings in, and power is better for high AC targets because you don't want to attack with MAP against them. wild shape druid is in a bit of an odd spot, in that there is no dedicated martial wildshaper build like there was in 3.5 or PF1. the power of a druid will always be in its spell list. its primary ability is a spellcasting ability, after all. the better way to think about it is that in exchange for monopolizing your feat investment, a wild shape druid gets the most possible throughput anyone can get out of a single focus point. if you go all-in on the build, you become roughly as capable as an average melee character of an melee-focused class, if somewhat less potentially flexible in your tactical options... except for the part where you can just choose to be a caster for an encounter instead if that's more advantageous to you, and you don't really lose all that much compared to a druid that invests heavily in making their casting options more flexible.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:52
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It should be noted that druids are casters first and foremost. If your goal is to wildshape the first round of combat and maul enemies as an animal, the Animal Totem Barbarian can probably do the job better and would have more feats that lead to interesting mauling related decisions.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:55
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The animal totem barbarian can't do anything close to what wild shape offers, though. You get one animal feature, not even the full animal form. Can't even swap into a different animal's feature. You can also go dragon barbarian so you can get dragon form, which is effectively a wild shape with only one option--but a very good option. I like the fact that wild shape offers options: if you want to scout, you can become a bird or a rat; If you want to grapple, you become a giant snake or a gorilla; if you want to be fast you become a cheetah or something. Nothing offers that versatility outside of wild shape itself. But yeah, I guess I should accept that druids are still casters and look into learning (and liking) the caster aspect too.
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Jul 22, 2023 08:58
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Dick Burglar posted:Ah, I misread power attack's description. I thought it was making two attacks, not one. Derp. Wild shape is unarmed attacks. That's why you also see some people go monk archetype for Flurry at 10.
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Jul 22, 2023 09:50
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Even starting with 16 strength your attack bonus will be slightly lower than a proper martial (I think?), so it seems like going fighter for power attack is a better idea, even if its action economy is worse. Initially I wanted to go monk, but fighter also offered attack of opportunity. Monk does have some nice archetype bennies though.
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Jul 22, 2023 11:17
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We had a wild shape Druid in Extinction Curse and the main value they had was as a pinch hitter. Against multiple foes it was casting AoEs and buff spells. Come up against a single tough foe and they animal formed into something big and went toe to toe. Incredibly flexible character.
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Jul 22, 2023 12:38
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HidaO-Win posted:We had a wild shape Druid in Extinction Curse and the main value they had was as a pinch hitter. Against multiple foes it was casting AoEs and buff spells. Come up against a single tough foe and they animal formed into something big and went toe to toe. Incredibly flexible character. That, in addition to loving hippy dippy woodsy kinda characters, is absolutely my jam.
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Jul 22, 2023 13:19
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Love to play a utility class. It's 5e rather than pf2e but I'm currently playing a college of swords bard with a level of Hexblade, and deeply enjoying all the places she can jump in. She's not quite as good a striker as the fighter, not quite as good a healer as the cleric, and not quite as powerful with spells as the sorcerer, but she can do whichever of those is needed at whatever moment it's needed.
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Jul 22, 2023 13:35
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Dick Burglar posted:The animal totem barbarian can't do anything close to what wild shape offers, though. You get one animal feature, not even the full animal form. Can't even swap into a different animal's feature. You can also go dragon barbarian so you can get dragon form, which is effectively a wild shape with only one option--but a very good option. This is why a Shifter class is something so many people want to see in 2E; people want the versatility of wild shape (or an even more versatile transformation power) without being a caster, and without the Druid lore/anathema baggage.
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Jul 22, 2023 15:25
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I don't think this would work for you because you don't want to lean into the caster aspect but I'm curious if anybody has experience with arcane polymorph spells. There are no "form" spells for arcane at level 1st: Pest Form 2nd: Humanoid Form 3rd: Ooze Form 4th: Gaseous Form, Aerial Form 6th: Devil, Demon, Dragon or Daemon Form 7th: Corrosive Body (not a form spell but im acid based so it's close enough) 8th: Monstrosity Form 9th: Shapechange My wizard is transmutation, so I was thinking about trying out these spells. Were still low level so I only have 1st and 2nd level spells, but pest form and humanoid form have been really useful to help scout out spaces. Are the battle forms any good? There's a feat I can take to extend the duration of the shift to 10 minutes by upcasting the spell. I figure most of the time I'm more useful casting spells. Edit: Level 5 has elemental form. gurragadon fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 22, 2023 |
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Jul 22, 2023 18:50
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How often do you need different kinds of animal shapes? Because I'm wondering if Beastkin versatile heritage would work, especially with Critter Shape which gives you b pest form.
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Jul 22, 2023 18:56
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gurragadon posted:I don't think this would work for you because you don't want to lean into the caster aspect but I'm curious if anybody has experience with arcane polymorph spells. There are no "form" spells for arcane at level I know a player who tried out the ones that were prepared druid spells, and it worked out pretty well.
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Jul 22, 2023 20:15
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3 Action Economist posted:How often do you need different kinds of animal shapes? Because I'm wondering if Beastkin versatile heritage would work, especially with Critter Shape which gives you b pest form. Beastkin doesn’t really do it either. It’s more akin to animal barbarian than wild shape. You can get pest form too, but eh. The main reason I bounce off casters is that I don’t like learning giant, multi-level spell lists. Once it gets past a certain size I find it tedious rather than interesting. Do we know if the ~Remaster~ is changing druid mechanics at all?
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Jul 22, 2023 22:56
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Dick Burglar posted:Beastkin doesn’t really do it either. It’s more akin to animal barbarian than wild shape. You can get pest form too, but eh. Every class is going to have some tweaks that are the result of systemwide stuff like the changes to focus points, or various spells being adjusted, but no, Druids are not a primary target for a redesign, and I would not expect any changes that are going to fundamentally alter how the class plays or feels. The actual major changes you can expect to see, in class terms, for the remaster are: The Witch and Alchemist are getting fairly big overhauls; both need them. Champions are seeing a lot of changes borne out of the need to decouple them from the alignment system. Clerics and other divine casters aren’t getting dramatically changed per se, but the changes to divine spells to make all of the blasts not alignment based are going to make them feel much better offensively. Wizards are getting a new stack of subclasses to replace the Schools of Magic, but I wouldn’t expect the new subclasses to be functionally too different in terms of design. Other than that, I would expect single digit numbers of new and changed feats for other classes, and nothing that is going to really change your understanding of any of them. Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 00:00
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The Rogue and Wizard are getting changes to their weapon proficiencies, though it's probably more a simplification to distance them from their D&D counterparts than a substantial power-level change. The Magus won't be in the Remastered core books, but will be getting errata anyway to deal with the removal of spell schools. Druids actually are getting a notable change, though it has more to do with Rage of Elements than with the broader Remaster project: they don't have an anathema against metal armor any more. Now that the Elemental Plane of Metal is a thing, it would be weird for Druids to treat metal as unnatural and bad. Edit: There will also be a bunch of spell changes (not just to alignment-related spells). Wish (and presumably its counterparts like Primal Phenomenon) will be a ritual rather than a spell now. I'm not sure if it will be able to duplicate other rituals or if it's still limited to duplicating spells. Light and Dancing Lights have been merged into a single spell, and I think some other spells have also been merged or split. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 00:17
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Silver2195 posted:The Rogue and Wizard are getting changes to their weapon proficiencies, though it's probably more a simplification to distance them from their D&D counterparts than a substantial power-level change. The Magus won't be in the Remastered core books, but will be getting errata anyway to deal with the removal of spell schools. Yeah. Like I said, there’s a lot of small (and big) stuff in the spell changes that will have knock on effects on every class, but nothing that changes the fundamental playstyle or class fantasy. The weapon proficiency stuff is a big deal for rogues and mostly just “okay, this stupid thing is gone” for wizards, but once again, neither really changes how either class works or plays in a way that I think is worth calling out as a redesign. It’s good for the game and it’s good stuff but it is also glorified errata. If you’re pinning your hopes on the remaster making a wild shape druid less of a spellcaster and more of a shapeshifter melee… keep hoping.
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Jul 23, 2023 00:44
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Chevy Slyme posted:If you’re pinning your hopes on the remaster making a wild shape druid less of a spellcaster and more of a shapeshifter melee… keep hoping. We’re going to have to wait for them to redo shifter for that.
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Jul 23, 2023 11:05
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Chevy Slyme posted:If you’re pinning your hopes on the remaster making a wild shape druid less of a spellcaster and more of a shapeshifter melee… keep hoping. Nah, I expected nothing so grandiose. Was mainly curious about stuff like the metal armor change, or maybe “balancing out” the druid orders by making all or none grant focus points.
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Jul 23, 2023 16:11
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Dick Burglar posted:Nah, I expected nothing so grandiose. Was mainly curious about stuff like the metal armor change, or maybe “balancing out” the druid orders by making all or none grant focus points. You can expect literally anything that touched focus points to get attention paid to it.
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Jul 23, 2023 16:23
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Thinking of running Agents of Edgewatch as I'm interested in Absalom as a setting, is that one of the good APs? I haven't looked at the AP too too closely, but the Player's Guide mentions something about scrubbing off the cop bits; how feasible would it be to recast the PCs as Pathfinder Society trainees who are tasked with dealing with local problems as part of their training?
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Jul 23, 2023 21:19
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The hook of my campaign was supposed to be a pair of Akata biting the PCs and infecting them with visions of the void. So of course my players crit killed one immediately and succeeded on every Fortitude save from the other. Is there any precedent in 2E for a disease still taking hold after a successful fortitude save against it? Or should I just roll with the punches here?
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Jul 23, 2023 22:45
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Geb!
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Jul 23, 2023 22:52
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Cheston posted:The hook of my campaign was supposed to be a pair of Akata biting the PCs and infecting them with visions of the void. So of course my players crit killed one immediately and succeeded on every Fortitude save from the other. Is there any precedent in 2E for a disease still taking hold after a successful fortitude save against it? Or should I just roll with the punches here? I feel like people would be willing to accept that there's weird void things going on after they fought off the Akata for the sake of plot as long as you don't also force the mechanical downsides of failing those saves. Maybe fold in some more potential sources of eldritch influence to give you another reason to insert those plot points. Also, I haven't read through Agents of Edgewatch myself, but I looked up a reasonable-sounding review. The short version is that Edgewatch's adventures are good but each adventure doesn't do enough to foreshadow future plot points. So, read through all the adventures ahead of time and plan out the plot points you'll need to bring up by yourself so they're still relevant three adventures from when they came up because the adventures won't do as much of that as you'd hope for. (I'm trusting this review because "this didn't do enough to tell the GM what they should foreshadow for later adventures in the first stages of the AP" seems like a common complaint for early 2e adventure paths.)
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Jul 24, 2023 00:14
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Cheston posted:The hook of my campaign was supposed to be a pair of Akata biting the PCs and infecting them with visions of the void. So of course my players crit killed one immediately and succeeded on every Fortitude save from the other. Is there any precedent in 2E for a disease still taking hold after a successful fortitude save against it? Or should I just roll with the punches here? This sounds like something that could come up on the next long rest, and really lay into it to highlight "Hey this is loving important and I would appreciate some follow through." and maybe tie in to the next thing they're doing somehow? Also not to open up a can of worms but the meltdowns last few pages about Matt Mercer always make me laugh. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 02:04
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Cheston posted:The hook of my campaign was supposed to be a pair of Akata biting the PCs and infecting them with visions of the void. So of course my players crit killed one immediately and succeeded on every Fortitude save from the other. Is there any precedent in 2E for a disease still taking hold after a successful fortitude save against it? Or should I just roll with the punches here? Roll with the punches - by introducing MORE Akata. Then you've got an immediate danger in the form of "where the gently caress are all these Akata coming from", resolving that can tie into your larger campaign hook, and if you get the bite off successfully then you can play with the void visions.
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Jul 24, 2023 02:06
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https://twitter.com/JasonBulmahn/status/1683523010530263041?s=20
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Jul 24, 2023 20:49
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Is it just me or does that guy look like NoNat1's
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Jul 24, 2023 21:01
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Black Noise posted:Is it just me or does that guy look like NoNat1's he does. they've mentioned it before on streams/videos they've both been on.
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Jul 24, 2023 22:40
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I don't get it. What's this referencing?
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Jul 24, 2023 23:03
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I don't get it. What's this referencing? Twitter rebranding to "X"
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Jul 24, 2023 23:03
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