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Sywert of Thieves posted:My dude, what Look up "stack ranking" and make sure you have a good amount of booze
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Jul 23, 2023 08:36
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Machai posted:How does one...uh...gently caress TikTok? This must be that new "Tik-Tok for Sex!" I keep hearing about.
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Jul 23, 2023 08:39
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Sywert of Thieves posted:My dude, what They’re just describing most US corporate cultures. It is illogical, not sustainable, and actively makes people crappier human beings. At least, my experience parallels what was described there, even at the lowest levels of the company. Toxic work environments e’erwhere.
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Jul 23, 2023 08:48
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MonkeyHate posted:Having to constantly train new hires and say goodbye to good employees while trying to sabotage your coworkers to make sure you weren’t on the layoff list was such a productivity suck. Sywert of Thieves posted:My dude, what Bored posted:They’re just describing most US corporate cultures. It is illogical, not sustainable, and actively makes people crappier human beings. At least, my experience parallels what was described there, even at the lowest levels of the company. There's an important distinction to be made between being in a toxic environment and actively participating and furthering the toxic bits. Don't give a gently caress about work? Cool. Jerking off all day because it's all horseshit anyway? Fine. Using work time to hunt for a better job because you are in a lovely situation and you don't have any power to change it? Good for you. gently caress those in power who are making GBS threads on folks from a great height. But if you are actively sabotaging coworkers--loving them over because "hey, it's me or them"--congrats, you are now a lovely human being and officially Part Of The Problem. "Hey, that's just how it is here" is not an excuse, it's just lazy guilt-avoidance. aas Bandit fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 16:37
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aas Bandit posted:Don't give a gently caress about work? Cool. Jerking off all day because it's all horseshit anyway? Fine. Using work time to hunt for a better job because you are in a lovely situation and you don't have any power to change it? Good for you. I have a bunch of coworkers like this and they all end up making more work for others which causes stress and discord. How are they not making a work environment more toxic?
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Jul 23, 2023 17:00
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aas Bandit posted:There's an important distinction to be made between being in a toxic environment and actively participating and furthering the toxic bits. Ah. I see. I read it as they were just posting poo poo they witnessed since I can’t imagine sabotaging another persons work, but I’ve sure as hell had it done to me. It just seems like tons of people in corporate jobs spend all their time and energy doing that instead of the jobs they were hired to do. It’s baffling to me. Such a huge waste of money. But MonkeyHate did phrase it as if they were spending time sabotaging the work of other employees. I just read it as sarcasm.
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Jul 23, 2023 18:10
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Konar posted:I have a bunch of coworkers like this and they all end up making more work for others which causes stress and discord. How are they not making a work environment more toxic? You have a point, and yeah, sounds like in your workplace they are (it would depend on specifics and would vary depending on the job and circumstances). That being said, I'd argue that there's a difference between passively, impersonally making more work for others by loving off vs. actively going out of your way to sabotage the work of someone specific to benefit yourself. The first one is lazy/irresponsible/lame, while the latter is actual sociopathy. And yeah, if MonkeyHate was just describing others, cool, but that's a yikes otherwise.
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Jul 23, 2023 18:21
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Don't even imply that I support that poo poo by quoting me vvv: Touché, I never said anything about misquoting Sentient Data fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 19:31
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Sentient Data posted:I support that poo poo
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Jul 23, 2023 21:10
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Sentient Data posted:Don't even imply that I support that poo poo by quoting me Sorry, not my intention--you were just part of the exchange.  Removed.
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Jul 24, 2023 05:31
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Oh wow. When I said “sabotage” maybe people are picturing me like suddenly one day for no reason smacking the poop out of your hand at your job where you eat poop all day but sadly I’m talking about the everyday culture at pretty much every large tech company. I think this fits the “dumb work poo poo” topic so here goes my experience: So you get hired for an entry level role and you learn that every year the company lays off 10-20% of the workforce. This is done regardless of how successful the company was that year because it makes the numbers look better at the earnings call and shareholders are king. But no big deal, because you’re smart and motivated and intend to work hard so why would your name ever make the list? Some places choose lay-off victims by team or project. So like “your app was successful and your sales were great and you should be proud but this other team’s product made slightly more money and someone has to go so you are fired Merry Christmas”. Well you don’t want that to be you. You need to pay your rent and your family can’t afford to go without health insurance, so you and your teammates all pull together and put in a bunch of unpaid overtime to make the best possible thing you can. Then as layoff time approaches you realize your fate was never in your hands so you tell your spouse not to spend money on new school clothes for the kids while you wait to see where the axe falls. Other places will make every manager fire a percentage of their team every year. So you work hard and put in overtime but so what? Your teammates also work hard and put in overtime. You are smart and educated and focused but because the interview process is so grueling and so many people want to work here all of your coworkers are just as smart and educated and driven as you. You think you’ve done very well this year but the metrics your boss will use to determine who’s about to get fired are deliberately vague so you put off having the car repaired and lie awake at night counting your savings to figure out how long you have to find a new job before you lose the house. Regardless of how your company does it, the lesson is the same. Being good at your job isn’t the actual key to success at this company nor any of its main competitors. If you want to be successful at this, the only thing you could possibly make this kind of money doing, you have to learn to play the real game. Everyone at the company, top to bottom plays this dog-eat-dog game of temporary alliances and sabotage and back-stabbing and it infects every decision made. This company wants winners and winners crush the competition and your competition is both outside and inside the company. So if a coworker makes a mistake maybe you don’t help them fix it. If you know another team needs to rack a bunch of servers for a new project you conspire to make sure the dcm team is busy. Please spread rumors about that other team’s manager because it might just land in the right ear at the right time. Something is about to fail? Don’t warn them - let it blow up in their face. All is fair in love and war and it’s no coincidence they love to share violent war metaphors in motivational meetings here. Besides, if someone lets a coworker sandbag them, they obviously weren’t strong enough to hack it here. All of this behavior is expected and rewarded. It is the part of your career they didn’t teach in college. So now you that you know how to survive, what’s your long game? Fight tooth and claw to weasel your way into a role that’s protected? Kiss huge amounts of rear end and hope you’ve tricked potential list makers into liking you? One coworker I wrote about before tried going the blackmail route. The ultimate dream is to So that’s your life and you get used to it then later good at it and it all seems normal. You make friends and work to protect each other. Random people at the company start to treat you with respect beyond what your job title warrants because you are a “survivor” and you are proud of that. Then one day you’re interviewing at a different kind of company and they tell you they’re worried about your work history because the places you worked all have a reputation for being brutal and cutthroat. Getting hired here put really a spotlight on how hosed up things are with this industry and also on how crazy it is that we learn to accept it as a routine part of the job. Fortunately it seems like things have been changing for the better, at least at some of the big players. Hope people coming up after me have it better than I did.
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Jul 24, 2023 07:38
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id rather wash dishes for 10 dollars an hour than deal with that bullshit
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Jul 24, 2023 07:42
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teemolover42069 posted:id rather wash dishes for 10 dollars an hour than deal with that bullshit
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Jul 24, 2023 11:35
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teemolover42069 posted:id rather wash dishes for 10 dollars an hour than deal with that bullshit
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Jul 24, 2023 11:41
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MonkeyHate's description of tech culture is on point. What I've experienced is not just all of that unspoken but actually, explicitly stated in public. I still can't decide if that's somehow a positive or if I prefer just the implication. The other side I've got experienced is when you have a genuinely good product and culture but not the market to support it. I've actually lost more sleep wondering if the company was going to be around for the next pay period than if I would be low on the stacked ranking criteria. As ever, remember the sage advice "hate the game, not the player".
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Jul 24, 2023 12:19
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I've never worked at a place that was that toxic and disfunctional, and absolutely never will. I'm sorry you have to, MonkeyHate.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:42
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Dumb poo poo has been done: Org 1 is optimizing its expenses, and chooses to let go of a technician who keeps all the storage units working, because org 1 is not a storage focused org. Yaaaaay we saved 1 headcount from the budget yaaaaaaay we rule bonuses all around! Org 2 teams now have to purchase replacement storage units before they go end of service and you cant get parts anymore, because there isnt anybody who can cannibalize parts from junked machines to keep the rest of the fleet running. Org 2 teams also cannot buy cheaper storage from the scratch and dent returns pile because theres nobody to install it now. Its not new, so theres no contract to cover installation. Both orgs work for the same VP, who is going to be pissed when his storage costs blow the gently caress up, or work stops getting done because there’s nowhere to keep it.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:03
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I wouldn’t last long. So I guess I don’t ever have to worry about a job like that.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:06
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My assumption is if somebody told a Japanese company they needed to fire the bottom 10% of their staff for no goddamn reason they'd be getting the Miyazaki Katana Message.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:07
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When you work in tech (the large umbrella term, not the FAANG/Silicon Valley companies) you have to make an explicit choice. You either get, for industry, good pay but deal with all that bullshit or good work/life balance and company culture in a non "tech" industry as part of their tech team. The companies that provide competitive to FAANG salaries while also being places to work that doesn't eat at your humanity are the goldilocks places that people rarely leave for obvious reasons. So right now, I work in a non tech classified industry for great pay by national standards, but not great pay by tech standards, but also with the exception of my on call rotation have no real demands on my time and my company expects me to use all of my vacation every year. So long as I'm loosely available for business hours and my projects get done I can gently caress off and do whatever, whenever. But since I'm not in the tech industry itself it carries very little prestige and I have to network my rear end off for every new job because I can't trade off the weight of my job title/company when shopping around for the next job.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:16
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Barudak posted:My assumption is if somebody told a Japanese company they needed to fire the bottom 10% of their staff for no goddamn reason they'd be getting the Miyazaki Katana Message. Paging Barudak
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Jul 24, 2023 14:16
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MonkeyHate posted:[Almost Hunger Games Level poo poo] This right here starts to make me glad I work for decent money at a 100 year old bureaucratic monolith of a utility company. There is all kinds of stupid here, but you have to actively try to get fired. For most managers, it takes a lot of effort to collect enough data to go to HR to get some started on the track to firing. Plus it makes the manager and/or department look bad. So they just cover up the bad employees. Or let the get promoted to other departments. So as long as you don’t show up to work intoxicated, get violent, or cover up mistakes you are going to be given all the chances in the world. The worst that will usually happen is that your bonus and/or raise will take a hit. But if you are actually competent at your job, a lot of the terrible managers will fight tooth and nail behind the scenes to keep you from moving. Until you can eventually make enough connections to find a promotion opportunity that they can’t block.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:20
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Dameius posted:The companies that provide competitive to FAANG salaries while also being places to work that doesn't eat at your humanity are the goldilocks places that people rarely leave for obvious reasons. For example, I'm underpaid by at least 20%. And I have to face the possibility of stacked ranking. And management is a mix of barely incompetent and outright toxic. However, all the benefits are good and I'm 100% WFH. While I'm underpaid in terms of the industry, it's comfortable for where I live. And there is an actual work-life balance; I've never been explicitly asked to put in work outside of my normal hours. For many, this would not be considered a "goldilocks" situation, but for where I am in my life at the moment, it is.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:46
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I do tech stuff at a non profit that pays non profit wages and the management has made incompetence their mission but. It's non profit. Which is such an ease on my conscience that even though the management has me actively looking for new work, it's hard to convince myself things could be better at a place actively engaging with things like 'the market'
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Jul 24, 2023 14:51
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Killingyouguy! posted:I do tech stuff at a non profit that pays non profit wages and the management has made incompetence their mission but. It's non profit. Which is such an ease on my conscience that even though the management has me actively looking for new work, it's hard to convince myself things could be better at a place actively engaging with things like 'the market' If you're actively looking for work, you should look for a position at one of the Ontario regulatory authorities. Great pay and benefits, competent management, and your job is preventing businesses from scamming their customers or injuring their employees.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:02
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teemolover42069 posted:id rather wash dishes for 10 dollars an hour than deal with that bullshit Best job I ever had was working the grill at a bakery/sandwich cafe. Great team, everyone worked together. Boss really cared about the staff. No expected overtime. Just turn up, work grill, punch register and when you're done you're just done. If it paid somewhat decently I'd go back. gently caress corporate bullshit forever.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:30
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Never worked at a tech company like what is being described, though also never worked at a tech company that was very large so that's probably why.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:52
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from the description id have to guess amazon. ive worked WITH some toxic teams (luckily never really been on one myself at least not for long) but never anything like that. ive also never worked at one of the big ~5 tech companies that they have the acronym for but amazon is the one you tend to hear horror stories like that from over the others.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:40
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Outrail posted:Best job I ever had was working the grill at a bakery/sandwich cafe. Great team, everyone worked together. Boss really cared about the staff. No expected overtime. Just turn up, work grill, punch register and when you're done you're just done. If it paid somewhat decently I'd go back. I like working in a kitchen in the boh, the pay just sucks so much rear end it simply isn't viable as a job to actually support oneself. but there's something special and fun about a kitchen staff that's good at it and enjoys each others company, not to mention the health benefits of having an active job instead of sitting at a computer all day(which I obviously prefer, but still)
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Jul 24, 2023 16:50
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I work for a software company in a non-tech industry. But our North America HQ is close to Microsoft. So that pulls up our wages closer to tech. So my pay is very good. We're European company so they got us the very nice and heavily subsidized insurance option. I am either traveling or WFH, and was so prior to the pandemic, so that isn't changing. Upper management seems to not be sociopaths. I mean they still could be, but if so they are putting in enough masking effort that it feels like working for nice people. It's a good job, and I hope to stay here. I know one day upper management will change and gently caress things up. But for now, it's a small sanctuary in the lovely job market. Beats the poo poo out of pure chaos that is a software company that just could not transition out of startup mode. I do not miss having six or seven fires to put out daily.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:55
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MonkeyHate posted:Oh wow. When I said “sabotage” maybe people are picturing me like suddenly one day for no reason smacking the poop out of your hand at your job where you eat poop all day but sadly I’m talking about the everyday culture at pretty much every large tech company. Nah, when I read "sabotage" I assumed stuff exactly like: MonkeyHate posted:if a coworker makes a mistake maybe you don’t help them fix it Thanks for verifying. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to harm other people; you are making that choice for personal gain and calling it "survival".
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Jul 24, 2023 18:08
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aas Bandit posted:Nah, when I read "sabotage" I assumed stuff exactly like: i don't know, what they describe does sound an awful lot like a gun being held to their head to me it's easy to make high fallutin' moral judgements from outside the situation. I would never willingly join a company like that but if you find yourself in one and it is your way of sustaining yourself and your family and the prospect of finding a job that provides as well as that one are bleak then I don't blame people for feeling like they have to do that. the system is the problem - the same people in a better system would not act that way. there is not only incentive to do so but a threat if you don't.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:11
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aas Bandit posted:Nah, when I read "sabotage" I assumed stuff exactly like: Try more scolding. I'm sure that'll help.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:14
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It’s extremely cool that occupying the moral high ground pays your bills and feeds your family
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Jul 24, 2023 18:15
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Drake no: being horrified + disgusted at the depths some companies will sink to in order to keep their employees hungry, desperate, and fighting each other Drake yes: blaming the employees
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Jul 24, 2023 18:48
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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Outrail posted:Best job I ever had was working the grill at a bakery/sandwich cafe. Great team, everyone worked together. Boss really cared about the staff. No expected overtime. Just turn up, work grill, punch register and when you're done you're just done. If it paid somewhat decently I'd go back. I really liked refereeing frisbee. Fun to run up and down the sideline and make close calls, and the championship game was a squeaker so that was neat. Paid the lowest amount allowed under the law but nice to be outside.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:49
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kdrudy posted:Never worked at a tech company like what is being described, though also never worked at a tech company that was very large so that's probably why.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:55
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Yeah I assume Amazon as well. Had a friend who was the most reliable member of our D&D group take a job there and have now not heard from him in 9 months.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:11
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I worked at a printing company for a while. My partner worked at the same one and now works at a different one doing different products. 99% of the issues could be solved by teaching the customers to utilize our services properly and informing them properly of what we can and cannot achieve. Everyone in production agrees this is the way to go. Everyone in accounts and management agrees that the way to go is to promise things the machines aren't even capable of producing and in timeframes that assume we have no other customers. Things fall behind or need to be made up or recreated in the fly. Delays happen. Customers get annoyed and change their orders mid-run that accounts and management say yes to, causing more delays. Naturally, this is production's fault 100% of the time. I've since moved to a grant-funded non-profit that's kind of behind the curve on tech so when I set up simple conditional formatting on a spreadsheet even the CFO thinks I'm some kind of magician. It's so much better not making money for someone else.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:22
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Stack racking isn't some secret tech industry secret. It's very popular in vulture capital and famously pounded the nails into the Sears coffin. It's popular for human resources when you have no shortage of people generally credentialed or experienced in you industry but short of specialists and experts. Which describes almost all of STEM right now after the last 30 years of STEM worship launched millions of gen X, millennials, and zoomers into a STEM education and employment ecosystem that is wholly not ready for the volume. So you just filter based on the strangest criteria human resources can decide on with the hiring manager and hit the hire button like you're a gambling addict in a mobile game opening blind boxes and throw out anyone not fitting in the next 1-3 years. Glad we do the very sane large company thing and instead of lay you off, just stop giving you raises and training till you show yourself the door if you're operating better than minimum but not a shining example of the position.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:22
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