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OddObserver posted:Overall it seems like Chinese quads are still heavily used, which is something that probably should be a concern to US military.... welp until ukraine joins NATO they don't have the luxury of paying $100,000 a drone
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Jul 24, 2023 15:44
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OddObserver posted:Overall it seems like Chinese quads are still heavily used, which is something that probably should be a concern to US military....
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Jul 24, 2023 15:56
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bulletsponge13 posted:I'm probably missing some glaringly obvious issue, so I feel the need to ask- what makes you say that? They aren't tied in or integrated defense systems, and the ubiquitous use of COTS drones has become routine in combat zones. SoF and advisor units even have experience integrating them into Allied operations. Only that in the nightmare scenario of a war with China they'll be the ones with tens of thousands of cheap drones, while US will probably be producing drones with 7 digit costs in single-digit quantities.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:08
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bulletsponge13 posted:I'm probably missing some glaringly obvious issue, so I feel the need to ask- what makes you say that? They aren't tied in or integrated defense systems, and the ubiquitous use of COTS drones has become routine in combat zones. SoF and advisor units even have experience integrating them into Allied operations. I’d say it’s because they could cut the supply if they wanted to.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:15
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Saukkis posted:They are manufacturing quite a lot of them domestically. I wonder what would be the biggest bottleneck, motors or electronics. I'd expect attitude / position/ motor speed sensors to be the bottleneck, microcontrollers that can be made to work in these applications are a high volume commodity and ukraine has more than enough embedded software talent to adapt to whatever specific chips are available in volume for a given shipment. The motors, well I expect a lot of units that would otherwise be considered marginal are just fine for applications where they only need to work once probably having less impact on the overall drone market and more on "oh god why is Raspberry Pi unobtanium" shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 17:13
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shame on an IGA posted:I'd expect attitude / position/ motor speed sensors to be the bottleneck, microcontrollers that can be made to work in these applications are a high volume commodity and ukraine has more than enough embedded software talent to adapt to whatever specific chips are available in volume for a given shipment. The motors, well I expect a lot of units that would otherwise be considered marginal are just fine for applications where they only need to work once Accelerometers/gyroscopes/magnetometers used in cheap drones come from the smartphone lines. How many smartphones are produced each year compared to drones?
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Jul 24, 2023 17:18
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Drone stuff is crazy. I was part of a work briefing with the secret service and the guy basically implied that drone stuff scares the poo poo out of them and was basically recruiting on that aspect. If you have a TS clearance and the right type of drone knowledge there are some really good jobs available.
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Jul 24, 2023 17:33
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I think the Dutch/Germans have the MEMS market down pat. There are also several US based companies producing a ton of EPU's. Flight controller wise, I haven't really dug into, but I know that there are a couple out there that have to have all US sourced parts in order to get gov. contracts. I'm not too worried about the US's ability to ramp up production if it ever came to that.
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Jul 24, 2023 17:36
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More drone attacks in Moscow. There is video of the drone in flight, seems surprisingly small. I wonder what tricks they use to manage the range. https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1683317302542884865
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Jul 24, 2023 17:47
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OddObserver posted:Only that in the nightmare scenario of a war with China they'll be the ones with tens of thousands of cheap drones, while US will probably be producing drones with 7 digit costs in single-digit quantities. Those Chinese drones are using electronic components that are made in Taiwan and Korea, soooooo....
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Jul 24, 2023 17:50
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fknlo posted:Drone stuff is crazy. I was part of a work briefing with the secret service and the guy basically implied that drone stuff scares the poo poo out of them and was basically recruiting on that aspect. If you have a TS clearance and the right type of drone knowledge there are some really good jobs available. Question from having little knowledge, is most drone based defense based around cutting the signal between the operator and the drone? Would it work for the drone to be a closed system only told to fly so many miles in one direction then to descend fast? Guessing without being able to use GPS accuracy would suffer but not sure how they’d be able to defend against that.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:17
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Question from having little knowledge, is most drone based defense based around cutting the signal between the operator and the drone? Would it work for the drone to be a closed system only told to fly so many miles in one direction then to descend fast? Guessing without being able to use GPS accuracy would suffer but not sure how they’d be able to defend against that. That's basically the Shahed drone. If all you want to do is conduct terror bombings inertial navigation is more than good enough to terrorize a population center.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:19
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Dandywalken posted:
the loving Lancets are the only things they have that work. It really pisses me off and I hope that the USMIL is paying attention and soliciting some kind of defense system that they can put on EVERY tank and IFV in the future.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:21
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Saukkis posted:More drone attacks in Moscow. There is video of the drone in flight, seems surprisingly small. I wonder what tricks they use to manage the range. Not much range required to fly from the other side of the Kremlin
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Jul 24, 2023 18:21
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A.o.D. posted:That's basically the Shahed drone. If all you want to do is conduct terror bombings inertial navigation is more than good enough to terrorize a population center. Them shaheds use 8 GPS antennas and a thicc FPGA to filter out GPS jammers. This adds to their price.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:12
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Saukkis posted:More drone attacks in Moscow. There is video of the drone in flight, seems surprisingly small. I wonder what tricks they use to manage the range. I can only imagine that they actually come from somewhere inside Russia, possibly even domestic resistance.
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Jul 24, 2023 20:01
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Saukkis posted:More drone attacks in Moscow. There is video of the drone in flight, seems surprisingly small. I wonder what tricks they use to manage the range. it's pretty slow and high aspect ratio wing, so it's been built for high efficiency. if you have a powered launch system and it never has to land you can make more tradeoffs as you only care about cruise speed and can just optimize for that as hard as you want. ~20gal will haul my fat rear end several hours at 100 knots in general aviation, so 30-50kg of RDX can definitely make it hundreds of km on something surprisingly small. PurpleXVI posted:I can only imagine that they actually come from somewhere inside Russia, possibly even domestic resistance. yeah - thing is it's also loud and people it flies by clearly notice it. so while it could have the range sending it across hundreds of km of Russia may not be the play if you don't want it shot down before it gets where you want it to. 
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Jul 24, 2023 20:09
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karoshi posted:Them shaheds use 8 GPS antennas and a thicc FPGA to filter out GPS jammers. This adds to their price. I stand corrected. tiaz posted:it's pretty slow and high aspect ratio wing, so it's been built for high efficiency. if you have a powered launch system and it never has to land you can make more tradeoffs as you only care about cruise speed and can just optimize for that as hard as you want. ~20gal will haul my fat rear end several hours at 100 knots in general aviation, so 30-50kg of RDX can definitely make it hundreds of km on something surprisingly small. Getting Russia to reallocate more Air defense for the home front is definitely a win for Ukraine. Even if they do get shot down they could still be accomplishing their mission. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 24, 2023 |
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Jul 24, 2023 21:19
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:the loving Lancets are the only things they have that work. It really pisses me off and I hope that the USMIL is paying attention and soliciting some kind of defense system that they can put on EVERY tank and IFV in the future. An automatic shotgun or rifle on a robot mount guided by some commercial automotive radars would probably be quite easy to make and cost a couple of thousand dollars in building costs using off the shelf civilian parts. I assume non hardware stuff like the complexity of friend or foe recognition is why we are not seeing Ukrainian DIY versions of that all over the common Lancet targets right now. You don't want to blast your own dismounted infantry or have the thermal sights blasted off the tank next to you because a bird flew by.
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Jul 24, 2023 22:09
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Zudgemud posted:An automatic shotgun or rifle on a robot mount guided by some commercial automotive radars would probably be quite easy to make and cost a couple of thousand dollars in building costs using off the shelf civilian parts. I assume non hardware stuff like the complexity of friend or foe recognition is why we are not seeing Ukrainian DIY versions of that all over the common Lancet targets right now. You don't want to blast your own dismounted infantry or have the thermal sights blasted off the tank next to you because a bird flew by. Commercial car radars are far less sophisticated and powerful than a fire control radar.
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Jul 24, 2023 22:56
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I think that making a CIWS takes somewhat more technical finesse than "off the shelf radar" and "a shotgun."
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Jul 24, 2023 23:00
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fknlo posted:Drone stuff is crazy. I was part of a work briefing with the secret service and the guy basically implied that drone stuff scares the poo poo out of them and was basically recruiting on that aspect. If you have a TS clearance and the right type of drone knowledge there are some really good jobs available. I'm not suprised. It's a terrible movie but that drone attack scenario from Angel has Fallen has got to be something they worry the hell about somebody trying for real. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40JFxhhJEYk
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Jul 24, 2023 23:06
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PurpleXVI posted:I think that making a CIWS takes somewhat more technical finesse than "off the shelf radar" and "a shotgun." Ill see you and raise with “add a lot more ammo and a warcrime level RoE”
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Jul 24, 2023 23:16
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That Works posted:Ill see you and raise with “add a lot more ammo and a warcrime level RoE” This is a timeline where some E4 will get brought up for charges after the anti drone cannon got spooked and blasted a flock of critically endangered birds out of the sky, isn't it?
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Jul 24, 2023 23:46
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I think the near future of counter drone tech will be AI or Swarm counter drones, but I know gently caress all about that field.
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Jul 25, 2023 00:00
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bulletsponge13 posted:I think the near future of counter drone tech will be AI or Swarm counter drones, but I know gently caress all about that field. Clearly what we need to do is make a tank so large and heavily armored that a drone cannot take it out, the bigger the better.
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Jul 25, 2023 00:11
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Jarmak posted:Commercial car radars are far less sophisticated and powerful than a fire control radar. Eh, we'll fix it in post. Ship it!
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Jul 25, 2023 00:25
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PurpleXVI posted:Clearly what we need to do is make a tank so large and heavily armored that a drone cannot take it out, the bigger the better. Bolos here we come.
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Jul 25, 2023 00:27
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PurpleXVI posted:I think that making a CIWS takes somewhat more technical finesse than "off the shelf radar" and "a shotgun." PowerPoint slides with the right buzzwords  I'm guessing these cheap attack drones don't really maneuver or have situational awareness greater than your average FPS teammate, it would be pretty cool to have the real solution be to launch a tiny interceptor drone to go blast them.
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Jul 25, 2023 00:45
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PurpleXVI posted:Clearly what we need to do is make a tank so large and heavily armored that a drone cannot take it out, the bigger the better. Land Battleships? Land Battleships.
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Jul 25, 2023 01:03
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PurpleXVI posted:Clearly what we need to do is make a tank so large and heavily armored that a drone cannot take it out, the bigger the better. Isn't that just an aircraft carrier?
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Jul 25, 2023 01:26
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PurpleXVI posted:Clearly what we need to do is make a tank so large and heavily armored that a drone cannot take it out, the bigger the better. We can name it after something small, ironically, like The Ratt!
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Jul 25, 2023 01:29
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Army CWIS on a tank, complete with the "INCOMING! INCOMING! INCOMING! voice
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Jul 25, 2023 02:27
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Jimmy Smuts posted:Army CWIS on a tank, complete with the "INCOMING! INCOMING! INCOMING! voice not a tank but...
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Jul 25, 2023 02:32
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We already have the Gepard or the CIWS trucks, and both Rheinmetall Skynex and Bushmaster airbusting 30mm guns which will work great when paired with a pretty basic fire control radar. Drones are one of those things that are easy to beat if you have the hardware, and devastating as a defenseless infantryman. But its always the tradeoff since you can make drones that cost less than the average number of cannon rounds it takes to hit them. If you're defending a critical piece of your IADS you better hope you've got both the ammo stock and fire rate to beat a saturation before your expensive radars get knocked out. Thats where the next generation of Electronic Attack and/or Laser based cUAS systems come in, can't run out of ammo, no additional usage costs. Also we will have fun finding methods to defeat enemy cUAS by having the drones wiggle in certain ways to confuse their fire-control or cause an oscillation in their drive system causing them to miss. The usual.
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Jul 25, 2023 02:57
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M_Gargantua posted:Also we will have fun finding methods to defeat enemy cUAS by having the drones wiggle in certain ways to confuse their fire-control or cause an oscillation in their drive system causing them to miss. The usual. Drones all start flying around wearing cardboard boxes.
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Jul 25, 2023 03:01
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PurpleXVI posted:Clearly what we need to do is make a tank so large and heavily armored that a drone cannot take it out, the bigger the better. 
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Jul 25, 2023 03:16
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2085 is a lot closer now than when this first came out, so clock's tickin'.
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Jul 25, 2023 03:21
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 From this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzkknhgxtO4
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Jul 25, 2023 06:12
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Drones all start flying around wearing cardboard boxes. I personally think pill UFOs are something along this line of thinking
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Jul 25, 2023 06:43
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