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Any general tips people can give for playing Necromunda? I've been reading Goonhammer but also just wondering if there's a general "do/don't do this" during play. Feels like it's not clicking for me, although I'm probably being too aggressive in my play, hard to turn off my inner ork 
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Jul 24, 2023 10:46
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Any general tips people can give for playing Necromunda? I've been reading Goonhammer but also just wondering if there's a general "do/don't do this" during play. Just imagine you’re playing Gorkamorka and anyone who uses ”tactics” or ”thinking” instead of doing everything for the maximum lols is being an unorky git
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Jul 24, 2023 10:51
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Any general tips people can give for playing Necromunda? I've been reading Goonhammer but also just wondering if there's a general "do/don't do this" during play. I have a lot to say about this! First I'm going to link an article I wrote for Goonhammer: https://www.goonhammer.com/necromunday-assumptions-and-overlooked-rules/ The only bit of that going out of date with the rules update, is it is going to get more viable to shoot people to death, but only if they're not in cover. If there's one thing I would stress about Necromunda tactics that isn't clear from other GW games (like using weapons that have a good chance against their target, or using cover) it would be to think about your order of Activations. Alternating activations means that within every round, you are playing a mini game against your opponent, trying to either get the drop on them in situations where your fighters are mutually threatening one another, or forcing them to activate before you in situations where neither player is yet in position to strike. Because of this, having more fighters on the table is a big advantage. Using champions or leaders for group Activations is key to get the drop on people, but when you want to eke out the Activations and force your opponent to show their hand first, you want to avoid group-activating. Because of group Activations you want fighters to be relatively close, but on the other hand you need to mitigate the threats from blast templates and Nerve checks (testing to break when an ally goes down or out within 3"). It's especially important to get fighters near your injured guys, to Assist them to Recover during the End phase.
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Jul 24, 2023 11:50
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Genghis Cohen posted:I have a lot to say about this! First I'm going to link an article I wrote for Goonhammer: Thanks for the tips, and also the content! I've been going off that article previously, and appreciate the work Goonhammer's writers put in 
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Jul 24, 2023 13:00
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/legions-imperialis-designer-interview-just-how-did-they-make-these-tanks-so-small/ An article about sculpting the Legions Imperialis models. If you check the main page however, the image for the article includes the sprues from the core box in a loose pile.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:03
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Genghis Cohen posted:I have a lot to say about this! First I'm going to link an article I wrote for Goonhammer: Unrelated: Infinity never really clicked for me until reading your writing about it there, thanks.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:06
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HidaO-Win posted:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/legions-imperialis-designer-interview-just-how-did-they-make-these-tanks-so-small/ 
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Jul 24, 2023 13:20
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Cease to Hope posted:Unrelated: Infinity never really clicked for me until reading your writing about it there, thanks. That's great to hear man, thanks very much! Blooming Brilliant posted:Thanks for the tips, and also the content! I've been going off that article previously, and appreciate the work Goonhammer's writers put in My pleasure. Either of you want to talk about specific questions for either game system, just post or shoot me a message. They are far and away my two favourite games and I'd happily talk/write about them all day.
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Jul 24, 2023 13:46
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These look great, but I dread individual hatches and sponson assemblies vanishing into the carpet.
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Jul 24, 2023 14:56
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That looks pretty sweet! I can see that we'll probably not be able to buy small individual blisters, but that isn't the end of the world. Might encourage some trading.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:10
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That looks promising for being able to paint some of the little dudes still on the sprue. I wonder if they're just going to pack Rhinos in with a couple of the marine infantry frames as a £30-35 box.
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Jul 24, 2023 15:15
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So I got the Starter KT box with Kommandos and Death Korps. Should I get another box for more terrain and kill teams? Realistically I'm probably not gonna play an actual game of KT for another few years, until my 5 year old is older and his mom lets him consume more violent media. But I gotta case of FOMO and an addiction to buying stuff. Thinking about the Into the Dark box or Moroch. Hell the Pariah Nexus seems affordable? But might be trash.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:05
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Yeah if you were going to get another box might as well get one that allows for the other major game mode with Into the Dark style terrain. Pick your favorite team wise from there.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:14
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xtothez posted:That looks promising for being able to paint some of the little dudes still on the sprue. Just stick the infantry on a sprue and hit them with contrast. Been painting some Brigade 6mm infantry and it's amazing how you can paint 30 dudes in half an hour.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:57
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E2M2 posted:So I got the Starter KT box with Kommandos and Death Korps. Should I get another box for more terrain and kill teams? Realistically I'm probably not gonna play an actual game of KT for another few years, until my 5 year old is older and his mom lets him consume more violent media. But I gotta case of FOMO and an addiction to buying stuff. Thinking about the Into the Dark box or Moroch. Hell the Pariah Nexus seems affordable? But might be trash. Pariah Nexus is for the previous edition of KT, I think you'd be better off with one of the more recent boxes.
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Jul 24, 2023 20:29
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E2M2 posted:Thinking about the Into the Dark box or Moroch. As someone who got into kill team with the Into the Dark season, the terrain available in those boxes is great! Interior maps play very differently and would add a lot of variety to the kind of maps you could design. Buuuut! It IS a lot of same-y walls to paint. Of the 4 boxes of ITD that comes with 2 teams and terrain (plus one unique terrain sprue), I think the best one is probably the first one, that included Farstalker Kinband, and Imperial Navy Breachers. Breachers are a very strong team, and the Kinband are p solid, if a little squishy if the enemy denies their cover. The 2nd box comes with Kasrkin and Heirotek Circle, who are middling I believe? Though the HC have gotten a string of buffs since their release. Their unique terrain sprue added a lil programmable robot you can fight for control over, and a automatic turret emplacement that will fire at anyone it can see if left alone. The 3rd box has Arbites (space FBI) and the Hand of the Archon. I've only seen a few battle reports with these teams, but they seem neat, but not super powerful? I'd like to try them out but not enough to buy the whole box for myself! The 3rd box also has probably the coolest unique terrain sprue, which includes several consoles for a command deck. The 4th box includes a Votann killteam, and a Beastmen team. The beastmen team is pretty busted at the moment, but I imagine that they'll get a nerf sooner or later. The votann team is in a pretty rough spot with them being so very very slow. The unique terrain sprue is also pretty neat, and includes a bunch of escape pods, and a medical station.
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Jul 24, 2023 22:24
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If I buy the Phobos Kill Team can I use the bits and bobs in the box to model Intercessors as well (magnetizing arms and whatever is necessary)? Or, if I buy a box of 40k Intercessors, can they be Phobos? I assumed Phobos is the better pick because they probably have many specialized doodads and maybe I can swap out for plain bolters and chainsword. I would love to get 2 for 1 value out of buying sixty bucks of marines.
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Jul 24, 2023 23:41
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Dull Fork posted:As someone who got into kill team with the Into the Dark season, the terrain available in those boxes is great! Interior maps play very differently and would add a lot of variety to the kind of maps you could design. Buuuut! It IS a lot of same-y walls to paint. some notes on the ITD teams: breachers are a bursty combo team. very newbie unfriendly both coming and going. it's hard to figure out how they work, but once you do they have wicked combos that reliably just wipe enemies off the board. these combos are mainly countered by not walking into them. when the breachers player and their opponent both know how the team works, it's fun and still good, but there are two humps to get over. kroot farstalkers are strong, often underrated, and fairly newbie-friendly. you stay in cover and shoot people and punish anyone who tries to get in your face with hounds and more shooting. arguably a boring team but solid. a good pick for someone who wants a predictable but consistently useful defensive gameplan. kasrkin kill mfers. being able to rig the dice is very good in this game where crits and burst damage are both very important. you have a very easy to understand gas tank of elite points, and when it's full your guys are rockstars and when it's empty they remember they're guardsmen. this is a boon for new players, because it's a nudge to not overcommit. middling in tournaments, owing to their weak tools for completing missions. (lowish total APL, few mobility tools.) heirotek are immortal unless you badly screw up. to get this immortality, you have an elite-sized team without elite performance. much-buffed and now playable middling, but one of many team hampered by a small model count and keystone characters who you have to protect. they are immortal, though, and inexorably running people over is fun. exaction squad (arbites) are hilariously mean-spirited. basically all of their abilities are "your gimmick doesn't work," particularly punishing bursty or conceal-based teams. i love that they're the fun police. middling-low tournament performer but good for learning the competitive meta because they no-sell so many tricks. hard to find atm because the unit has a meta role in 40K in quite a few armies. hand of the archon are glass cannon suicide bombers. all eldar are pretty focused on piece-trading and mobility, but dark eldar don't really have much of an escape plan, just more berserker violence. fun and well-balanced team but enthusiasm for them was muted by the fact that there are three other competitively-viable eldar teams that play like this. prospectors (votann) are in a sorry state. theoretically they are a bursty shooting team with a rubber band mechanic and a decent ability to no-sell some gimmicks despite their glass jaws. in practice, they are slow and suck at playing the mission or controlling space and really suck at into the dark, and their shooting doesn't get scary fast enough to make up for the fact that your starts are pretty bad. they are badly in need of buffs but you can't buy them atm anyway. fellgor ravagers (beastmen) are a very OP all-melee team, on account of getting a free extra turn on each guy after being killed. they will just cheerfully play the mission while ignoring you. one of three teams everyone is hoping GW will nerf in or before september. terminally unfun to play against in ITD. honorary ITD season teams: ashes of faith is a narrative box with two goofy-large teams, inquisitorial agents and chaos cult, but no terrain. this box sold out instantly because it was basically half-again its price in useful imperial and chaos units on top of having two very OP kill teams. inquisitorial agents are one of the three big busted teams. they are half a mix of random imperial weirdoes (similar to starstriders) and half another non-marine imperial kill team of your choice. their very, very strong ploys plus the decent specialists, combined with basically all of the good specialists from your choice of kill team, makes this the OP choice for anyone who wants to show off the fact that they own so many imperial weirdoes. very cool models and not really gamebreaking in a new player's hands, though. strangely, does not include an inquisitor. chaos cult is a gigantic team full of weak chaos cultists, but if they survive they get promoted first into half-demon cultists, and then diet chaos spawn. excellent (albeit pre-existing) models, cool concept, OP as poo poo. there is no non-disruptive way to play this team well, as your opponent either has to out-maneuver the largest KT in the game or out-kill their absurd healing and durability. also another team that makes ITD miserable. i love this team in concept and design but it's just too mean to play atm. kill team annual 2022 came out around the same time as ITD and reprinted some white dwarf teams that don't have their own box: hunter clade (admech sicarians and some skitarii helpers), warpcoven (dismal tsons sorcerers and minions list), wyrmblade (GSC neophyte ambush team), and void-dancers (harlequins, wildly good but totally underplayed as usual). those had been around for a while but it also added two more teams from old kill team: gellerpox infected and euclidian starstriders. gellerpox are nurgle mutants, and a weird mix of an elite and swarm team. they have four terrifying hulks, a swarm of bugs, and a smattering of guys who play the mission. newbie-friendly to play and consistently top-tier until the three recent OP teams took over. they're a bit newbie-unfriendly to play against: you need to figure out if your team is better at killing hulks or better at picking off the mission-doer guys, and then commit to doing that. if you waffle or swing and miss, gellerpox will murder you. if you commit and succeed, they're too slow and inflexible to recover. another ITD menace, but fun and fair (if strong) otherwise. euclidian starstriders are another team from old kill team, and they're a rogue trader and her retinue. your typical mismatched bunch of weird human guys trying to make their way in this hosed up galaxy. most of your guys are somewhat overspecialized and not especially fearsome. however, you have some very, very strong ploys you can only use in high-stakes situations, as well as reliable fire support from the ship shooting from off-table. they have a very cool design that really makes you feel like you're playing the protagonists. mid-high as a competitive option, too. there was one other big team released during ITD and it's so ubiquitous and well-designed that it pretty much overshadowed almost every team released in an actual kill team box. intercessor squad, released for free on GW's site, are just a half dozen intercessors and assault intercessors. they're not fancy, just very straightforward, durable, and consistent. it's a designated newbie team but also a consistently viable competitive choice. it's good for the game, i think, to have a popular and accessible team that plays a strong but fair match of kill team, to give some contrast to the quirkier teams. at least, that's what i tell myself as i set up for the umpteen millionth match against rapid durable Intercessors. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 01:24
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SuperKlaus posted:If I buy the Phobos Kill Team can I use the bits and bobs in the box to model Intercessors as well (magnetizing arms and whatever is necessary)? Or, if I buy a box of 40k Intercessors, can they be Phobos? I assumed Phobos is the better pick because they probably have many specialized doodads and maybe I can swap out for plain bolters and chainsword. I would love to get 2 for 1 value out of buying sixty bucks of marines. Depending on where/who you play. Like a games workshop store or a tournament might not like phobos counts as intercessors team, because their bodies are so far apart. If you're just playing casually, it depends on your opponent. Some will be cool with it, some won't. AFAIK the Phobos kill team kit does not have any chain swords and very few arms hold close combat weapons, very few holding pistols.
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Jul 25, 2023 02:27
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Cease to Hope posted:some notes on the ITD teams: This was a great breakdown, thank you!
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Jul 25, 2023 18:29
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Yeah that write up rocks, thanks!
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Jul 25, 2023 20:50
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So after the discussion earlier about Epic, I found a copy of the OG Space Marine rules and they don't look too bad? Looks simpler than EA but not to the degree of Epic40k's "detachments are treated like big homogenous units". Does that sound about right? It looks like a pretty decent starting point for the new game.
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Jul 26, 2023 11:17
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Z the IVth posted:So after the discussion earlier about Epic, I found a copy of the OG Space Marine rules and they don't look too bad? Looks simpler than EA but not to the degree of Epic40k's "detachments are treated like big homogenous units". there are two different OG epic games titled "space marine" and the nicest thing that can be said about them is that they were products of their time. they bogged down very badly when you actually try to play them, to the point that people were barely joking that it might just be easier to play 40k. it is reasonable to expect more than an hour per turn unless both players are experienced with the game and familiar with both players' armies.
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Jul 26, 2023 11:44
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Cease to Hope posted:there are two different OG epic games titled "space marine" and the nicest thing that can be said about them is that they were products of their time. they bogged down very badly when you actually try to play them, to the point that people were barely joking that it might just be easier to play 40k. it is reasonable to expect more than an hour per turn unless both players are experienced with the game and familiar with both players' armies. Care to elaborate? The rulebook doesn't read much different from EA in terms of complexity.
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Jul 26, 2023 12:07
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Z the IVth posted:Care to elaborate? The rulebook doesn't read much different from EA in terms of complexity. What rulebook are you looking at? I'm very familiar with EA and have been looking over SM and Net Epic Gold, both have a level of complexity that appears much higher. Simple things like splitting fire across many targets adds quite a bit of time. This shouldn't be controversial, epic40k was an over-correction, but it was a direct response to common complaints about SM. I do still think there is a good game in there with lots to offer, but it is very much so a game from that era. I can play 3 full games of EA in a day, all the grogs that love SM talk about it being an amazing super fun all day activity.
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Jul 26, 2023 12:15
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Virtual Russian posted:What rulebook are you looking at? I'm very familiar with EA and have been looking over SM and Net Epic Gold, both have a level of complexity that appears much higher. Simple things like splitting fire across many targets adds quite a bit of time. This shouldn't be controversial, epic40k was an over-correction, but it was a direct response to common complaints about SM. I do still think there is a good game in there with lots to offer, but it is very much so a game from that era. I can play 3 full games of EA in a day, all the grogs that love SM talk about it being an amazing super fun all day activity. 2nd edition. I did wonder if it was the targeting rules that bogged things down. So every single vehicle or infantry stand declares it's own target?
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Jul 26, 2023 12:29
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Z the IVth posted:So after the discussion earlier about Epic, I found a copy of the OG Space Marine rules and they don't look too bad? Looks simpler than EA but not to the degree of Epic40k's "detachments are treated like big homogenous units". A couple of issues that jump to mind about OG Epic were: Much like 40k / Rogue Trader of the same era, close combat was done on a per model basis. Roll for each infantry stand in base contact one at at time, while your opponent does the same. The general presentation of unit & weapon rules. For example, the Ork shokk attack gun or pulsa rokkits both got a full A4 page each that covers both fluff and rules, but mixed together. For some units there were no special rules at all, but at a glance the page looked the same as those that did have them. Imagine skimming through 9 paragraphs of text during a game to see how a single unit plays. Example:  This all leads to fond memories of it being a fluffy game with plenty of flavour, while players forget how much of a slog it could be to actually learn or not make mistakes. I fully expect the new Epic will resemble Space Marine on the surface, but have many of these issues streamlined with modern layout & rules writing.
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Jul 26, 2023 12:30
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That explains a lot. I read through the SM section and it looked pretty tame but that page of rules is serious 
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Jul 26, 2023 13:21
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/26/the-new-legions-imperialis-terrain-is-the-perfect-backdrop-for-an-epic-throwdown/ 12” x 12” tiles, 6 to a box. Multiple different terrain packs as well. Will be interested to see what the standard sized battlefield is. One box of tiles is 3’x2’, so if the battlefield is 4’x3’ two boxes will cover you. This is going to get expensive for me.
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Jul 26, 2023 14:07
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e: never mind the terrain, get a load of that sneaky baneblade Z the IVth posted:That explains a lot. I read through the SM section and it looked pretty tame but that page of rules is serious ...and if you think that's bad, have a look in Hive War for the Tyranid's special interconnected rules for listbuilding and orders, which are some real sicko rules writing. Your army list also being a little flow chart (or several) you have to preserve to refer back to during the game sure is An Idea. Assessor of Maat fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jul 26, 2023 |
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Jul 26, 2023 14:39
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HidaO-Win posted:[Terrain] is going to get expensive for me. for goodness's sake, never buy GW plastic terrain unless you are independently wealthy. there are a few scales that work well for epic. the nicest is 1/285, where you already have a ton of existing terrain aimed at historical wargamers in that scale. ZZ-scale (1/300) models also work, although this is a niche train enthusiast scale. z-scale (1/220) is the main scale for tiny trains and you can usually make it work for epic, although buildings will have comically large windows c garages, etc.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:56
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I am shocked that they are doing those tiles. That is a lot of production capacity going into that. Godspeed l'il doodles.
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Jul 26, 2023 16:34
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Help me I looked at that issue of WD someone posted and now I’m thinking about a vintage, all metal Chaos Killteam
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Jul 26, 2023 16:44
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Yeah, plastic terrain tiles are going to be expensive as hell. They'll look great with a good paint job, but there will be a whole slew of 3rd party terrain matts that you just put down on the table and have done with it.Professor Shark posted:Help me I looked at that issue of WD someone posted and now I’m thinking about a vintage, all metal Chaos Killteam Oldhammer Kill Teams are awesome, do it!.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:23
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I'm not super-into the relatively 'clean' city theme LI bases and tiles have, but those road tiles making regular sized footprints for hab-blocks and weird industrial buildings is somewhat intriguing.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:28
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Robert Facepalmer posted:I am shocked that they are doing those tiles. That is a lot of production capacity going into that. Godspeed l'il doodles. It's a promising sign for future Epic support. Titanicus on release was a single plastic terrain kit followed by resin Forgeworld tiles that cost around £500 for an empty 4x4 table. Going heavy on plastic stuff now means they intend for this game to stick around.
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Jul 26, 2023 18:30
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The great thing about plastic is you can get a ton of detail on for very little extra cost. Which makes it bizarre that GW decided to make uber bland road tiles that might as well be made of MDF so flat as they are. They could have at least copied the forgeworld tiles which are very nice (if hideously pricey).
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Jul 26, 2023 18:41
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I was really hype for those tiles but goddamn that is some low-effort plastic. I'm really not sure what the thinking there was, the plasticard sidewalks I've been bashing for bases looks more convincing and visually interesting. It looks like the Imperium drops skyscrapers in the middle of their parking lots.
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Jul 26, 2023 18:59
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Professor Shark posted:Help me I looked at that issue of WD someone posted and now I’m thinking about a vintage, all metal Chaos Killteam Vintage all-metal teams for GW skirmish is the way to go. Currently finishing stripping some 2e Blood Bowl humans (by Mark Copplestone, so before the unified design skills of Gary Morley) for an incredibly vintage team. Gonna try my hand at the old Bright Crusaders paint scheme because I played my goblins last season and had an order of magnitude more fouls than all other teams in the league, so playing as the overly serious, never-foul-or-even-bend-the-rules pious idiots seems like an ideal next step.
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Jul 26, 2023 19:43
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moths posted:I'm really not sure what the thinking there was, the plasticard sidewalks I've been bashing for bases looks more convincing and visually interesting. 'How can we cram six tiles into the same (or similar) box that we put four Necromunda tiles in?'
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Jul 26, 2023 19:59
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