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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Occupy Democrats though.

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Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Xiahou Dun posted:

Occupy Democrats though.

They're just quoting them, who quoted the Guardian report we were talking about before. Nothing to do with Occupy specifically.

Fuschia tude
Dec 26, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

Is it normal to have a case be that far away?

Trump was indicted in March in New York, and that trial begins next March, making it one month longer from indictment to trial date than Smith's Florida case.

Fart Amplifier
Apr 12, 2003

Charlz Guybon posted:

They're just quoting them, who quoted the Guardian report we were talking about before. Nothing to do with Occupy specifically.

Nobody should quote occupy democrats and anyone who does is suspect

Paracaidas
Sep 24, 2016
Consistently Tedious!
The problem with an utter nobody quoting worthless grifters quoting a Guardian story is that the two obvious, lying, loving morons between you and the Guardian add their own brand of worthlessness... and then you drag it into the thread.

The Guardian says nothing about Graham, Giuliani, or Eastman. Not that you'd know, as the Occupy Tweet quoted by whoever the hell that is rambles on and on without either a link to the Guardian story or any other reporting or vague whiff of fact. The reason it's the first you've heard of charges is that nobody has heard of charges and you're sourcing this nonsense to an idiot looking to Q his way to internet clout by pretending his prediction is deeper than mere speculation.

quote:

The Fulton county district attorney investigating Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in the state of Georgia has developed evidence to charge a sprawling racketeering indictment next month, according to two people briefed on the matter.

Georgia grand jury selected in Trump case over attempt to overturn 2020 defeat
The racketeering statute in Georgia requires prosecutors to show the existence of an “enterprise” – and a pattern of racketeering activity that is predicated on at least two “qualifying” crimes.

In the Trump investigation, the Fulton county district attorney, Fani Willis, has evidence to pursue a racketeering indictment predicated on statutes related to influencing witnesses and computer trespass, the people said.


Willis had previously said she was weighing racketeering charges in her criminal investigation, but the new details about the direction and scope of the case come as prosecutors are expected to seek indictments starting in the first two weeks of August.

The racketeering statute in Georgia is more expansive than its federal counterpart, notably because any attempts to solicit or coerce the qualifying crimes can be included as predicate acts of racketeering activity, even when those crimes cannot be indicted separately.

The specific evidence was not clear, though the charge regarding influencing witnesses could include Trump’s conversations with Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, in which he asked Raffensperger to “find” 11,780 votes, the people said – and thereby implicate Trump.

For the computer trespass charge, where prosecutors would have to show that defendants used a computer or network without authority to interfere with a program or data, that would include the breach of voting machines in Coffee county, the two people said.

The breach of voting machines involved a group of Trump operatives – paid by the then Trump lawyer Sidney Powell – accessing the voting machines at the county’s election office and copying sensitive voting system data.

The copied data from the Dominion Voting Systems machines, which are used statewide in Georgia, was then uploaded to a password-protected site from where election deniers could download the materials as part of a misguided effort to prove the 2020 election had been rigged.

Though Coffee county is outside the usual jurisdiction of the Fulton county district attorney’s office, the racketeering statute would allow prosecutors to also charge what the Trump operatives did there by showing it was all aimed towards the goal of corruptly keeping Trump in office.

A spokesperson for Willis did not respond to requests for comment.

The district attorney’s office has spent more than two years investigating whether Trump and his allies interfered in the 2020 election in Georgia, while prosecutors at the federal level are scrutinizing Trump’s efforts to reverse his defeat that culminated in the January 6 Capitol attack.

A special grand jury in Atlanta that heard evidence for roughly seven months recommended charges for more than a dozen people, including the former president himself, its forewoman strongly suggested in interviews, though Willis will have to seek indictments from a regular grand jury.


The grand jury that could decide whether to return an indictment against Trump was seated on 11 July. The selection process was attended by Willis and two prosecutors known to be on the Trump investigation: her deputy district attorney, Will Wooten, and special prosecutor Nathan Wade.

Charges stemming from the Trump investigation are expected to come between the final week of July and the first two weeks of August, the Guardian has previously reported, after Willis told her team to shift to remote work during that period because of security concerns.

The district attorney originally suggested charging decisions were “imminent” in January, but the timetable has been repeatedly delayed after a number of Republicans who acted as fake electors accepted immunity deals as the investigation neared its end.

In fact, the discussion of going after the breaching suggests the opposite - that they're going after behavior outside of Eastmam/Graham/Giuliani/etc. Or it could be both! The important thing is to stop bringing obvious horseshit into the thread.:fuckoff:

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006

Xiahou Dun posted:

Occupy Democrats though.

Occupy is basically one or two people at this point. While he may have sensationalist headlines, his work is usually pretty close to truth.

PhantomOfTheCopier
Aug 13, 2008

Pikabooze!
They posted the source, people checked, there's no additional story with those claims right now, the process works.

Please stop Trump :rant: :tizzy: posting. Calm down, enjoy your weekend, and smile at the thought of forthcoming additional indictments (for which I have zero authoritative sources).

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

Lammasu posted:

What if he does some whacky sitcom shenanigans where he tries to attend both at once?

I find it utterly hilarious I read this right after seeing a Perry Mason episode where effectively attending two trials at once was how Perry defended his client (by revealing the murderer in the other trial). Though given the quality of Trump's counsel I rather expect a different result if they try that.

ElegantFugue
Jun 5, 2012

Independence posted:

I have a question: Can he fire his legal team, say, a week prior to the trial and try and delay that way?

Judges can refuse a request to remove a lawyer from a legal team, this is often used in cases where a lawyer who has been doing illegal poo poo goes "oh gently caress uhhhh I'mma just leave and not get charged okay thanks bye"

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010
Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp contacted by Justice Department special counsel in 2020 election probe

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/22/politics/brian-kemp-special-counsel-donald-trump-georgia-election

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart
Not sure if this has been posted yet.

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1682857015046021121

Longer video here.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/video/news/2023/07/19/false-elector-defendent-says-she-was-duped/

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

welp that's actual direct criminal fraud then

Oracle
Oct 9, 2004

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

welp that's actual direct criminal fraud then

Sounds like bullshit to me; none of those people was anything less than a true believer and had been warned several times by members of their own party that what they were attempting was illegal. And as dumb as they are I find it hard to believe they’d just sign a blank piece of paper for their signatures to be used later.

saltylopez
Mar 30, 2010

Oracle posted:

Sounds like bullshit to me; none of those people was anything less than a true believer and had been warned several times by members of their own party that what they were attempting was illegal. And as dumb as they are I find it hard to believe they’d just sign a blank piece of paper for their signatures to be used later.

Agreed. If they flip on somebody then that's great, but I feel like the visit to the Capitol (where they were rebuffed) reveals there was still the intent from all of them to commit the crimeas my understanding is that the elector certification is required to be signed within the physical capitol.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Is signing a blank piece of paper a normal thing in Michigan?
This excuse is up there with "No, someone walked by and shoved these drugs into my hand, so then I took them."

cr0y
Mar 24, 2005



Yea gently caress that noise. Let them cooperate for a reduced sentence but you don't get to pull the "I was tricked!" Defense.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



Isn’t Ron Filipkowski just a low key cousin of Occupy Democrats? Am I confusing him with one of the other weird propaganda-trap pseudo-grifters?

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart

Xiahou Dun posted:

Isn’t Ron Filipkowski just a low key cousin of Occupy Democrats? Am I confusing him with one of the other weird propaganda-trap pseudo-grifters?

You can look though his previous tweets.
He's pretty much a decent guy and I have never seen anything from him that was sketchy.
And he's pulling directly from a valid news source.

Also, he thinks Trump is a clown.

OgNar fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jul 23, 2023

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Oracle posted:

Sounds like bullshit to me; none of those people was anything less than a true believer and had been warned several times by members of their own party that what they were attempting was illegal. And as dumb as they are I find it hard to believe they’d just sign a blank piece of paper for their signatures to be used later.

Agreed. This is the "i don't know how that meth got in my car, officer" defense but they're playing it like they didn't read the fine print on a credit card application. Every god damned one of them knew exactly what they were doing.

BigBallChunkyTime
Nov 25, 2011

Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.

Illegal Hen
https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1683230198710550529?t=Lm3jvKc-WolMzz_nht_Kfg&s=19

Foreshadowing?

susan b buffering
Nov 14, 2016


surely there's a better source for
this than that idiotic podcast host

BigBallChunkyTime
Nov 25, 2011

Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.

Illegal Hen

susan b buffering posted:

surely there's a better source for
this than that idiotic podcast host

https://twitter.com/PalmerReport/status/1683293087433383937?t=YiSWqCTms6JvYzWR7cKrUg&s=19

Plus, Trump had a complete loving meltdown last night, even for him. Signs point to poo poo going down.

Or there's a really good food truck at the courthouse and Donny was mad that someone mildly criticized him.

BigBallChunkyTime fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jul 24, 2023

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


On the other hand, a woman who has been saying the Trump indictment is coming this week for 5 years might be the world expert in actually seeing the signs of a Trump indictment, if only to seem less silly than she currently does.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

It’s also quite likely the answer is that they’ve been parked there for a week now, since trump got the target letter.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

Plus, Trump had a complete loving meltdown last night, even for him. Signs point to poo poo going down.
Was he ranting on Truth Social or something?

Edge & Christian
May 20, 2001

Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters

Ynglaur posted:

Was he ranting on Truth Social or something?
A partial compilation just in the past 24 hours:

quote:

Every time you see these Radical Lunatics and their partners in the Fake News Media talking about the “Trials and Tribulations” of President Donald J. Trump, please remember that it is all a coordinated HOAX, just like Russia, Russia, Russia, the “No Collusion” Mueller Witch Hunt, the Fake Dossier, FISA Fraud, and all of the rest, in order to STEAL ANOTHER ELECTION through PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT at levels never seen before in the U.S. Deranged Jack Smith has already spent over $25,000,000!!!

quote:

Just think of it! Between Mueller, Deranged Jack Smith, and Congressional Committees, over 100 Million Dollars has been spent investigating me since I came down the escalator in Trump Tower. Biden is a criminal, and almost no money, by comparison, has been spent investigating him. Get smart, Republicans, they are trying to steal the Election from you!

quote:

Merrick Garland, Deranged Jack Smith, and coordinating Democrat “Prosecutors” in New York and Atlanta, have become the Campaign Managers for the most corrupt and incompetent President in United States history, Joe Biden! Who would have thought this could happen in our once great Country?

quote:

How many times can Crooked Joe Biden’s DEPARTMENT OF INJUSTICE, TOGETHER WITH THEIR LOCAL DEMOCRAT D.A.’S & A.G.’S, INDICT HIS POLITICAL OPPONENT DURING THE COURSE OF THE CAMPAIGN? DO THEY UNDERSTAND THE DAMAGE BEING DONE TO AMERICA? IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE. WE MUST STOP THESE “MONSTERS” FROM FURTHER DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY!

quote:

Do you think that A.G. Garland, and Deranged Jack Smith, understand that we are in the middle of a major political campaign for President of the United States? Have they looked at recent poll numbers? Why didn’t they bring these ridiculous charges years before - Why did they wait to bring them NOW - A virtually unheard of scenario? PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT! ELECTION INTERFERENCE!

quote:

Joe Biden is the most corrupt President in the history of the United States, which is being undeniably proven in the House of Representatives every single day. But with all of these horrible revelations and facts, why hasn’t Republican “leadership” in the Senate spoken up and rebuked Crooked Joe Biden and the Radical Left Democrats, Fascists, and Marxists for their criminal acts against our Country, some of them against me. How long does America have to wait for the Senate to ACT?

In between retweeting all sorts of stuff, including Kid Rock and Ted Nugent retweeting memes about how January 6th was "a staged riot" and "false flag" to cover up election interference, as well as a clip from the 1990s of Bill Clinton saying Trump was a better golfer than him. I haven't looked at Trump's fake twitter in awhile, so maybe this is just par for the course on a cranky Sunday, maybe not.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
Wow. He really did learn all of the lessons from Nazi propaganda tactics, didn't he? Even after so long, it's still startling to see it, as fresh as 1935.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

Edge & Christian posted:

In between retweeting all sorts of stuff, including {...} a clip from the 1990s of Bill Clinton saying Trump was a better golfer than him.

Lol. That's the :chaostrump: I like to see

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006
I’d youve actually listened to the MSW network - she might have been wrong about Mueller indictments but she’s been pretty solid in her predictions since bringing the former FBI guys on board.

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous


Pillowpants posted:

I’d youve actually listened to the MSW network - she might have been wrong about Mueller indictments but she’s been pretty solid in her predictions since bringing the former FBI guys on board.

TBF, Mueller did lay out a persuasive case for indictment but Barr let Trump do One Weird Trick to get out of it.

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006

Xand_Man posted:

TBF, Mueller did lay out a persuasive case for indictment but Barr let Trump do One Weird Trick to get out of it.

That whole thing just makes me so angry, right up to mob adjacent Michael Cohen somehow being taken seriously by that same crowd because he turned on Trump.

BigBallChunkyTime
Nov 25, 2011

Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.

Illegal Hen
Did the indictments drop late in the workday last time?

BDawg
May 19, 2004

In Full Stereo Symphony

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

Did the indictments drop late in the workday last time?

They were leaked on a Thursday evening, IIRC.

Dr. Faustus
Feb 18, 2001

Grimey Drawer

BDawg posted:

They were leaked on a Thursday evening, IIRC.
That's right, but we were on high alert because Trump's lawyers were seen leaving the building in DC earlier that week, on Monday at noon. They had been there since like 9am.

That's what I've been hoping to see today and so far have not.

I assume that's part of why the news vans are parked outside.

Zotix
Aug 14, 2011



Do indictments come with cokes?

Deuce
Jun 18, 2004
Mile High Club

Zotix posted:

Do indictments come with cokes?

More charges, please

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Edge & Christian posted:

A partial compilation just in the past 24 hours:

It's like reading dril tweets, and at the same time, a scholarly proof of the phrase "brevity is the soul of wit."

PhantomOfTheCopier
Aug 13, 2008

Pikabooze!

Zotix posted:

Do indictments come with cokes?
Would you like Insurrection Coke, Espionage Coke, Cherry Coke, or Collusion Coke?

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

Would you like Insurrection Coke, Espionage Coke, Cherry Coke, or Collusion Coke?

Oh, I'll have a cherry coke please.

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gregday
May 23, 2003

https://twitter.com/dsamuelsohn/status/1683940257966747651

Nothing groundbreaking in here, but a couple of interesting details.

quote:

Before the former president’s even been indicted, Donald Trump’s attorneys have slim hopes that a Washington, D.C.-based jury will acquit him, focusing their war-gaming instead on appellate battles up to the Supreme Court, a source familiar with their strategy told The Messenger.

The reason for their cynicism, the source said, had to do with the composition of the deep-blue jury pool of the heavily Democratic city. Only 5.4 percent of D.C. voters backed the Republican’s 2020 presidential campaign.

“He could have done something that Mother Teresa would have approved of and he'll get convicted,” added the source, who has given legal advice to the former president.

Trump's advisers and people familiar with his legal strategy told The Messenger they've been bracing for an indictment from Special Counsel Jack Smith to come as early as Tuesday or Thursday. The ex-president set off the latest scramble last week when he revealed he'd gotten a target letter from Smith's office and that he expects to be indicted in Washington for crimes related to the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election and the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection.

A ‘Layup’ for the Special Counsel
Concerns inside Trump’s camp on their prospects in Washington have been voiced before, though not with the salience of an imminent federal indictment. It’s also not the kind of objection that’s likely to go over well with the court.

Scores of accused and convicted rioters on the sprawling Jan. 6 docket unsuccessfully sought to transfer their cases out of the District of D.C., never succeeding in that effort — and in one instance, sparked an impassioned opinion defending the integrity of the city’s denizens.

"It would be unreasonable to think that twelve impartial jurors cannot be found in this District -- let alone all 94 federal districts," U.S. District Judge Christopher Cooper wrote rejecting a venue-change request from Richard “Bigo” Barnett, the rioter pictured gleefully kicking his foot on a desk inside then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office.

Trump’s legal team takes a more jaundiced view of the jury pool.

Describing conviction as a “layup” for prosecutors, the source said that Trump’s attorneys hang their hopes on the belief that any conviction can be successfully appealed in the U.S. Supreme Court. Trump tapped three of the nine judges on the Supreme Court during his presidency: Justices Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, though those appointments did not rescue his ill-fated efforts to topple Joe Biden’s electoral victory.

Hours before his first pretrial hearing last week in his Espionage Act case, Trump disclosed on his platform Truth Social that he had received a “target letter” from Smith — and said that he expected to be indicted imminently over his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election.

In his statement Tuesday, Trump criticized the Justice Department for having "effectively issued a third Indictment and Arrest of Joe Biden's NUMBER ONE POLITICAL OPPONENT, who is largely dominating him in the race for the Presidency." Trump is currently the frontrunner for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination.

Another source familiar with Trump's legal strategy raised a secondary concern beyond just the president's defense about the potential that other lawyers could lose their license for taking positions some may see as zealous or outside the norm.

“It’s pretty scary," the person said.


Trump’s former attorneys have faced bar complaints, disciplinary proceedings, and even license suspension over their efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani is one of the lawyers who temporarily lost his ability to practice law in the Empire State, and a D.C. disciplinary panel recently recommended his permanent disbarment. Conservative lawyer John Eastman also has been fighting for his law license before the bar in California, where a federal judge found that he “more likely than not” committed two felonies in his advocacy for Trump. Attorney Sidney Powell, who was Trump’s would-be special counsel for voter fraud, received a sanctions order, referring her and eight of her co-counsel for disciplinary proceedings.

They’re far from alone: The 65 Project, an advocacy group named after the number of failed lawsuits seeking to subvert Trump’s defeat, has papered bar associations with bar complaints against attorneys associated with those efforts from coast to coast.

In those cases, counsel for Trump and his allies stood accused of a spectrum of unethical conduct, including knowingly pursuing “frivolous” cases, fairness to the opposing party, and undermining the administration of justice.

‘20 Times Larger Than the Documents Case’
Attorney General Merrick Garland appointed Smith in November and charged him with examining both Trump's handling of confidential presidential files that were found at his private Mar-a-Lago resort, as well as the former president's role in the events surrounding the transition in power to the Biden administration. Smith has already charged Trump with 37 criminal counts in the documents case, and the ex-president has pleaded not guilty.

The criminal statutes cited in DOJ’s letter to Trump include conspiracy to defraud the government, obstruction, and Section 241 of the federal criminal code, a Reconstruction-era law that makes it illegal “to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person... in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States.” It is the criminal analogue to the Ku Klux Klan Act, designed to punish attacks on the civil rights of newly freedmen and freedwomen after the Civil War.

Asked about that possible charging decision, the Trump source said: “It’s unheard of for that statute to ever be used in the context of presidential decision making.”

There are echoes of that statute in a flurry of civil lawsuits filed against Trump, accusing him of violating the KKK Act.

As of July, the Justice Department has charged more than 1,000 people in connection with the Jan. 6 insurrection. The bipartisan House Select Committee that investigated those attacks interviewed more than 300 witnesses, and Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith has questioned dozens in the related criminal probe.

In that light, perhaps it’s unsurprising that a person familiar with Trump’s legal defense estimated that the team may call at least 50 to 60 witnesses. The source said they did not expect the case to go to trial prior to the 2024 election.

“This case is probably 10 to 20 times larger,” the source said, “than the documents case."

In Florida, U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon last week rejected Trump's request to delay his trial in the federal documents case until after the election, opting instead for a May 2024 trial.

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