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Oh gently caress me I had forgotten about the cult of ecstasy. Were they or the etherites the malkavians/pooka of mage? Wta didn't really have the joker splat, I never got that feeling from ragabash at least
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Jul 25, 2023 15:53
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Your classic Hermetic is actually going to be spirit magic under that schema. There’s a reason so much of it involved binding and warding.
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Jul 25, 2023 15:54
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Loomer posted:Your classic Hermetic is actually going to be spirit magic under that schema. There’s a reason so much of it involved binding and warding. The magic as super science is of course self evident 
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Jul 25, 2023 16:02
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citybeatnik posted:Which group'd be "magic as getting higher than anyone ever has before"? Depends on why you’re doing it, but Sacrifice.
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Jul 25, 2023 16:12
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Jim Morrison was an Ecstatic. 
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Jul 25, 2023 16:29
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Dawgstar posted:Jim Morrison was an Ecstatic. Show me the way to the next Avatar (oh, don’t ask why…) (oh, don’t ask why…) 
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Jul 25, 2023 16:55
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Extreme Athlete was a really good Ecstatic pre-gen.
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Jul 25, 2023 17:11
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In Revised the Ngoma are an Hermetic House.
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Jul 25, 2023 18:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:In Revised the Ngoma are an Hermetic House. In M20 they go with 'yes, some of <Craft> joined the Hermetics/Akashics/etc.' but the the majority of them (implied to have their heads on straight for reasons as vague as why the Disparates are right) joined the newest collection of freaks and geeks.
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Jul 25, 2023 18:48
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The vibe in Revised was that the Ngoma had been right when they ahd suggested a big order based on High Ritual magic and the Order of Hermes was turning into that with it's ancient leadership mostly gone. Of course that got ignored.
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Jul 25, 2023 19:37
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Dawgstar posted:Also it feels like at least Hollow Ones and Verbena were both made with an eye towards "we've found these subcultures like our games." Which is fine, but I think it explains why they've always come off the worst, especially the Verbena. Verbena have always needed something like a Sheppard splatbook. The Revised book is... okay, I guess, aside from weird bits like the aforementioned part of the Tradition giving rise to Nazi Germany as was the style at the time, but there's nothing in there that makes me want to play them so it fails the Chupp Test. TheCenturion posted:You'd have your 'magic as science' group, which posits that magic works through formula, ingredients, and rituals/recipes/procedures/whatever. Order of Hermes chanting Latin and rubbing fur on amber to make a lightning bolt or Technocrat using an app to detonate a near by connected power relay, whatever. I've always loved this description of the Hollow Ones on Reddit and I think it could totally fit a modern version, too. quote:In practice almost all Hollow Ones are orphans who get mix and match things from the internet, library, and personal meaning. A typical Hollow One's foci would be: That sort of New Age eclecticism has only flourished even more since back then, honestly. Just the aesthetic would be different.
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Jul 25, 2023 19:52
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NikkolasKing posted:I've always loved this description of the Hollow Ones on Reddit and I think it could totally fit a modern version, too. *dangerous weirdo who think it’s all real
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Jul 25, 2023 20:01
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AmiYumi posted:Part of the issue is that Phil “Satyros” Brucato, himself a New Age eclectic*, wrote M20 so that this Chaos Magyck Approach™ applies to all mages, robbing the Hollow Ones of any sort of identity Dangerous horny weirdo who thinks it's all real.
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Jul 25, 2023 20:05
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AmiYumi posted:Part of the issue is that Phil “Satyros” Brucato, himself a New Age eclectic*, wrote M20 so that this Chaos Magyck Approach™ applies to all mages, robbing the Hollow Ones of any sort of identity If you don't value your liver, take a shot every time you see the phrase "crazy wisdom." The Verbena and Hollow Ones especially feel very interchangeable with I guess the former standing out only for... nature, I guess, and Hollow Ones probably liking AC more so they are the superior
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Jul 25, 2023 20:08
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NikkolasKing posted:I've always loved this description of the Hollow Ones on Reddit and I think it could totally fit a modern version, too. Copy of any Palladium gamebook mentioning magic with the classic Palladium WARNING on the front page scribbled over.
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Jul 25, 2023 20:12
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You could have an “outsider” group with the goths as a prominent example but you’d be doing the Caitiff, Ronin, Shifting Lunar thing at a certain point. Great way to try to make your rear end the Protagonist.
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Jul 25, 2023 20:12
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One complaint sometimes made about Awakening is that it turned every mage into a Hermetic, but that's not really accurate. Especially in 2E, it's clear that every one of the Awakened is in effect a Hollow One: yeah, all this stuff's mostly bullshit, but there are glimmers of truth throughout, so while I do have my own favorite scrying pool back at my sanctum in a pinch I can combine this pocket mirror, this pencil, and some chanting I improvised on the spot to work real magic. Oh, it's a full moon out? That's a useful vibe, let's work that in somehow.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:05
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Considering the vibe of the recent stuff and their statement that the whole WoD line is gonna go more punk, I actually doubt the Technocracy will be playable at all if they make an M5 and instead they'll be the pseudo-SI equivalent faction where if you make too many waves and gently caress up too much, the Technocrats will drop some HITmarks on your head and purge. Who knows what the main factions will be, maybe just the Traditions and the Crafts. Maybe they'll bust out the Arcanum or something. The street level/punk focus basically makes 95% of the Technocracy's vibe irrelevant, which is a shame since Void Engineers stranded on a station orbiting Europa while the physical manifestations of Depression and Loss stalk them is exactly the type of awesome and dumb poo poo that was the best part about Ascension.
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Jul 25, 2023 22:48
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Fuzz posted:Who knows what the main factions will be, maybe just the Traditions and the Crafts. Maybe they'll bust out the Arcanum or something. There's a part of me that'll be surprised if it even has the Traditions in it at all. Or rather, that an M5 would actually have Mages as we know them in it whatsoever. It feels like something on par with what WoD5 wants to is a hardish reboot where the protagonists are at Sorcerer level power with regular Mage level Paradox consequences versus an overpowered Technocracy or something like that. That's if they even stick to Achilli hinting there'd be a Technocracy in some form in it, and the antagonist splat isn't just Nephandi or just "any other coven that isn't yours."
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Jul 25, 2023 23:13
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I'm going to figure out how to travel through time so I can go back to the 90's and give Brucato a loving swirlie for being such a creepy new age twerp.
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Jul 25, 2023 23:14
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I was pretty disappointed with Hunter: The Reckong 5E being Hunters Hunted instead of, well, Hunter: The Reckoning. Mage: The Ascension 5E no longer being Illuminatus! fanfic would positively break my heart.
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Jul 25, 2023 23:25
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Soonmot posted:Oh gently caress me I had forgotten about the cult of ecstasy. Were they or the etherites the malkavians/pooka of mage? Never got that feeling from them.
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Jul 25, 2023 23:35
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I don’t follow V5, has there even been a hint of M5 or is this all speculative fanfic?
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Jul 25, 2023 23:44
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AmiYumi posted:I don’t follow V5, has there even been a hint of M5 or is this all speculative fanfic? It was hinted at by Achili that he had "napkin notes" regarding a potential M5 but that's about it so far. Personally since they already did Hunter and Werewolf is coming next month, do Wraith or Changeling 5 first then do Mage. I just want a new Wraith 
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Jul 25, 2023 23:52
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I wanna back the next Trinity Continuum kickstarter, which is somehow Ancient Greece, but I won't if Onyx Path is still treating it's freelancers badly.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:34
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Dawgstar posted:If you don't value your liver, take a shot every time you see the phrase "crazy wisdom." The Verbena and Hollow Ones especially feel very interchangeable with I guess the former standing out only for... nature, I guess, and Hollow Ones probably liking AC more so they are the superior I half-wrote up a take on the hollow ones a couple of years ago, and the idea there was to make them properly Hollow Ones - their trappings mean literally nothing, to the extent of their entire personalities being something they shed semi-regularly. Magic powered by the tension of self-as-self and self-as-relationships and the ritual creation and destruction of identities and bonds, like the Persona suicide mechanic if you just read the words 'Persona suicide' and took them literally.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:50
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Ferrinus posted:One complaint sometimes made about Awakening is that it turned every mage into a Hermetic, but that's not really accurate. Especially in 2E, it's clear that every one of the Awakened is in effect a Hollow One: yeah, all this stuff's mostly bullshit, but there are glimmers of truth throughout, so while I do have my own favorite scrying pool back at my sanctum in a pinch I can combine this pocket mirror, this pencil, and some chanting I improvised on the spot to work real magic. Oh, it's a full moon out? That's a useful vibe, let's work that in somehow. This is basically approaching a Discworld witch.
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Jul 26, 2023 02:07
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Soonmot posted:Oh gently caress me I had forgotten about the cult of ecstasy. Were they or the etherites the malkavians/pooka of mage? Wta didn't really have the joker splat, I never got that feeling from ragabash at least The Etherites as popularly seen by the player base were indeed the "weirdos for weirdness' sake" since everyone seemed to go direct to Steampunk Poseurs as opposed to The Rocketter But With A Ray Gun, The Mad Bomber What Bombs At Midnight (Also With A Ray Gun), Vulture Capitalist Develops Conscience And Decides To Destroy The Concept Of Money, 007 Only With Less Sexual Assault And More Crosswords, Soviet Superhero Who Prefers Punching To Ray Guns, Ethnobotonist What Actually Talked To The People He Studied, Urban Planner (Also also With A Ray Gun), and whatever the one was that studied folks to see if they were ready to Awaken. The Ecstatics' needed less tricking people into eating weed brownies and more Extreme Athlete as mentioned but also sweat lodges, fasting, etc. It's telling when the Dissidents have a better handle on it and they're made up of: Aghoriz: extreme mendicants who don't see the separation of the self and others and so see torturing others to be no different than torturing themselves. And they torture the *poo poo* out of themselves. Acharne: hellfire club meets fight club with little respect for SSC in the bdsm lifestyle, where the "nicest" one you can find is that London NPC who doesn't judge you while you self destruct at the parties he hosts. Hagalaz: neopagans with a nazi problem. At least they're all honest about being monsters and don't make excuses about why this time it's okay to get your buddies high without telling them. And the Bone Gnawers are meant to be the WtA malks. But it turns out that leaving out peanut butter, banana, and bacon sandwiches to appease the spirit of Elvis or watching the Superbowl instead of doing a mystical rite at a caern are awesome. And Elvis does show up.
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Jul 26, 2023 02:16
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citybeatnik posted:The Etherites as popularly seen by the player base were indeed the "weirdos for weirdness' sake" since everyone seemed to go direct to Steampunk Poseurs as opposed to The Rocketter But With A Ray Gun, The Mad Bomber What Bombs At Midnight (Also With A Ray Gun), Vulture Capitalist Develops Conscience And Decides To Destroy The Concept Of Money, 007 Only With Less Sexual Assault And More Crosswords, Soviet Superhero Who Prefers Punching To Ray Guns, Ethnobotonist What Actually Talked To The People He Studied, Urban Planner (Also also With A Ray Gun), and whatever the one was that studied folks to see if they were ready to Awaken. Aren't these the Revised pregens for the Etherites?
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Jul 26, 2023 02:43
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Dawgstar posted:Aren't these the Revised pregens for the Etherites? They are. From Soviet Ufology to Raygun Gothic to progressive planners to everything between, with the implication from the Progressove Faction strongly hinting that the steampunk weirdness is the sort of stuff that the old white dudes losing their control were into. Other standouts include John Steele But With LSD Darts, What If The Shadow And Doc Savage Merged, and Dear God Who Gave These Greasers An A-bomb
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Jul 26, 2023 03:47
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Xerxes Jones  (yes I know he was a ve that's not the point)
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Jul 26, 2023 03:53
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Ghost Leviathan posted:This is basically approaching a Discworld witch. I guess I'm exaggerating a bit since even an improvised Path tool needs to at least be made of the right material or something, but once you start incorporating the colors and animals and so on from Signs you're really spoiled for choice given even a decently stocked supply closet.
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Jul 26, 2023 04:15
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Loomer posted:Xerxes Jones He's no Secret Agent John Courage. Now THERE'S a man who leads a life of danger.
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Jul 26, 2023 04:42
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Dawgstar posted:He's no Secret Agent John Courage. Now THERE'S a man who leads a life of danger. John Courage rules.
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Jul 26, 2023 05:36
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citybeatnik posted:They are. I know very little about oMage, but you've definitely sold me the Sons of Ether at least.
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Jul 26, 2023 07:53
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citybeatnik posted:They are. All this seems about halfway to Fallout. Also can see why Genius: The Transgression basically took this stuff and ran with it, and also lol that they were apparently way ahead of their time at steampunk mostly being popular with reactionary white dudes fetishizing an era where they were in unquestioned control of the world. It really does feel like a bit of a natural connection to the idea of magic that's at least partly defined by human belief, and/or human beliefs tapping slightly into the actual truth of magic, inevitably ends up running into pseudo/fringe science, cryptozoology, ufology and other weirdness that isn't what you'd call 'magic' of the modern era but does involve at least nominally seeking truth at the fringes of known or accepted knowledge. (Though also a lot of blatant scamming and cults and conspiracy theories) Ferrinus posted:I guess I'm exaggerating a bit since even an improvised Path tool needs to at least be made of the right material or something, but once you start incorporating the colors and animals and so on from Signs you're really spoiled for choice given even a decently stocked supply closet. Actually also a thing with Discworld magic in general too, with the wizards (and some witches) figuring out how to boil down rituals to their base components, though sometimes still keeping up the set dressing mostly for the look of the thing especially when they want whatever they're summoning to actually feel comfortable. (and also to not make it look too easy)
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Jul 26, 2023 10:23
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Omnicrom posted:I know very little about oMage, but you've definitely sold me the Sons of Ether at least. You can do the same with most of the factions in mage, they can sound interesting and playable, but put it all together and it just doesn't really hang together.
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Jul 26, 2023 11:43
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Explodingdice posted:You can do the same with most of the factions in mage, they can sound interesting and playable, but put it all together and it just doesn't really hang together. It hangs together in the same way that all oWoD games (except maybe Wraith) do; by the characters basically being edgy 90s street-level superheroes fighting against the MAN
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Jul 26, 2023 11:57
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Soonmot posted:Were they or the etherites the malkavians/pooka of mage? Without getting into it, the Etherites are the Pooka and Orphans are often the Malks.
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Jul 26, 2023 12:45
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Dawgstar posted:If you don't value your liver, take a shot every time you see the phrase "crazy wisdom." My favourite is when “chaos magick” appears as a focus. Because M20 is a game about chaos magic being real but nobody knows it. And some of the Traditions are outright chaos magicians. And, still, somehow, it was necessary to note that like half the Traditions and Crafts ones can do magic within their paradigm by explicitly using chaos magic.
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Jul 26, 2023 13:07
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