|
Torrannor posted:This is why I recommend publishing date. So yeah, you will get spoiled on this detail if you read The Lost Metal before the Stormlight Archive books, and it's not an insignificant detail. I’m excited to see how this affects what I think of the Stormlight Archive.
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 02:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 10:02 |
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I’m excited to see how this affects what I think of the Stormlight Archive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 05:03
|
|
|
I'm still intensely early on, but how long does it take to "settle" in with Way of Kings? All "new" series have a break-in period where you're getting the vibe for the world and how everything works. Is this going to be the sort of thing where I have to get 30% through this 45 hour audiobook before I have any sense of what is going on?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 06:45
|
|
|
The series took me about 150 pages to really settle in to, it has a ton going on but when it settles in to the plot it starts humming along making sense. Tons of terms, but they start working. On that note I'm not sure if many people are familiar with Runequest/Glorantha as a setting, but reading this last little bit about the aspects of Parsh slavery in the last couple pages really reminds me of the Morokanth in the area of Prax in that setting. They are part of a large group of tribes, all essentially humans with different totemic animals that they are one with. The Morokanth are one of these tribes, however they appear as sort of a Man/Tapir creature. Instead of herding Bison/Impala/Giraffes or whatnot, they "enslave" Herdmen. Herdmen look exactly like an average human but are not human beings. They are equivalent to any other herd animal and possess no further human traits outside of appearance. The Herdmen are traded just like any other animal and are frequently consumed by the average person looking for a meal in the desolate plains of Prax. Any rumors of the Morokanth (who are vegetarians!) having any sort bloody ritual to transform regular humans in to Herdmen is not worth paying attention to as the Morokanth will happily tell you. The spirits have given us the gift of our Herdmen and we treat them properly. When things get full of rumor/myth and maybe just a little bit of truth, poo poo gets tough to talk about from a "modern" point of view. TGG fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jul 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 08:08
|
|
|
There are quite a few "world hoppers" in SA, this is the crossover series after all. Many of them you are very unlikely to notice or identify in your first read through. I know one particular worldhopper in Way of Kings that got identified as such I think two years after the book's release. The worldhoppers do get more prominent and noticeable as the series progresses. And many of those minor-ish worldhoppers got confirmed as such through Word of Brandon. So an observant reader thought Grump might be Galladon, asked Brandon at a book signing, and got confirmation from him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I'm still intensely early on, but how long does it take to "settle" in with Way of Kings? All "new" series have a break-in period where you're getting the vibe for the world and how everything works. It took me a very long time before I either settled in or things clicked. SA was my first big 'epic' fantasy series and I remember being super annoyed with how I couldn't keep track of the houses, characters and the setting. Then, at one point later in the book, I was able to more easily make connections and the characters became more distinguished. Then, the ending. God drat, that ending. From there, WoR and Oathbringer were joys to read. So, you're not alone. It's best to try not to grumble about it and simply accept the confusion for now knowing it'll eventually fade. There's a reason why there's so much love for SA.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 15:54
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:It took me a very long time before I either settled in or things clicked. SA was my first big 'epic' fantasy series and I remember being super annoyed with how I couldn't keep track of the houses, characters and the setting. Then, at one point later in the book, I was able to more easily make connections and the characters became more distinguished. Then, the ending. God drat, that ending. From there, WoR and Oathbringer were joys to read. It's good to know I'm not alone at least. There is unending love for this series (and somehow the universe seems to know I'm reading WoK because every third Tiktok I'm seeing recently is someone gushing about the book). It's honestly been a very very very long time I've read anything that could be considered "epic" fantasy. And the last series that would probably be classified as that would have been  The Sword of Truth - which was not nearly as dense and had a "newcomer" point of view character that would get the world explained to them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 16:03
|
|
|
I've been going back a few decades to refresh myself and have been reading Reymond Feist's Riftwar for my Epic Fantasy genre filler. I don't know anything about Feist himself though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 16:08
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:It's good to know I'm not alone at least. There is unending love for this series (and somehow the universe seems to know I'm reading WoK because every third Tiktok I'm seeing recently is someone gushing about the book). One of my good friends was pushing me and a few others to start some Sanderson books and I eventually gave in and was very glad I did. Before that, I rarely read anything; we all played the pen & paper Expanse campaigns since we read the books together but before that I only ever read the Dark Tower series something like 15 years before. It was early 2020 when I started Mistborn so for obvious reasons reading really hit the spot and I haven't stopped since, reading well over 30 books over the last three years. WoK was the first book I read where it took a super long time for everything to sink in (it took a while for The Blade Itself from The First Law series too) but the payoff is well worth it. Eventually you'll look back and say "ahhhhh yup, okay, that all makes sense now", especially if you're able to read WoR and Oathbringer right after WoK.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 16:18
|
|
|
SA definitely has a steeper initial learning curve than most fantasy novels, because it's not taking place in a world/nation where everything is at the "like Earth society/nation X, but with a few key differences" setting so you can just fill in anything you're not being told by assuming it's the same as the stuff you already know. This is a world where they don't even farm recognizably, because there is no goddamn dirt, because they get hit by hurricanes on a frequent, predictable schedule and it all blew away. poo poo is weird and it'll take time to get your head around it, but it's very worth it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 17:35
|
|
|
Sometimes I wish books had an optional two paragraph "here is a crash course on the basics of how the world works" for those that need it. Nothing revealing the secrets of the world but more like "If you were a peasant in this world, these are fundamental concepts and terms you would understand." I know many people prefer to just go in completely unknowing and piece things together as they go, but honestly, nothing drives me more crazy than two characters having a conversation, multiple times referencing an in-universe term that even a peasant would know, but the writer hides what that term means for any various reasons. With the way my brain works, I need to have something to link one of these Proper Nouns to if I'm going to remember anything. Example - In Chapter 2 of Way of Kings - Kaladin is talking to another slave and asks why he was forced into slavery. The guy mentions that he attempted to steal a herd of <insert term here>. Kaladin asks why he didn't steal horses. Guy says that would have gotten him hanged. Luckily, a short time later it is reveal that the slave wagon is being pulled by the same creatures - which are large crab-like creatures used as draft animals. A peasant would have known what those things are called. Nothing is gained by keeping the reader in the dark. This is my new political platform - if a peasant in your world would know the meaning/subject of a term, then it should be illegal to keep it secret from your reader.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 18:58
|
|
|
The flipside to that, of course, is the dreaded As You Know. "Why are you enslaved?" "I attempted to steal a herd of chulls, which, as you know, as large crab-like animals that are slow-moving but used as draft animals in this society, because horses are extremely rare and thus too valuable for such work."' "Yes, I do know that, because literally everyone in this world has known it since they were infants; it is common knowledge. But if this conversation was perhaps being overheard by an omnipresent but not omniscient observer, they would not know that, and I thank you." You really will learn all the setting stuff through immersion over time, but since it's bugging you, go ahead and ask whatever setting questions you have here. I'll be happy to give you broad answers in spoiler tags. (And, just to be clear, I'll give the "peasant answer", so if everyone believes something about some basic fact but it's going to turn out later that they are wrong or it's more complicated than that, I'm only going to tell you the common knowledge.) CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 19:04
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:The flipside to that, of course, is the dreaded As You Know. Oh, yeah, I'm not necessarily saying that should be the case either because that can suck. Bring back big appendices for books. And have the first appendix should be "This is what a peasant would know." But again, this is my own personal pet peeve.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 19:09
|
|
|
Seriously though, if you want to know any more basic setting poo poo, just ask.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 19:18
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:This is my new political platform - if a peasant in your world would know the meaning/subject of a term, then it should be illegal to keep it secret from your reader. I get this though it may be best to simply accept being uncomfortable with not knowing what the hell is going on. The added context can help but isn't mandatory to fully grasp any and all machinations of the world. This has been my approach to most books lately and it's made a big difference in enjoying them, knowing that if there's information I must have, the author will drip feed it to me at some point or reference back to it after some other context has been established. I'd rather have that than heavy exposition that comes off as mind-numbing and laughable info dumps (looking at you, Three-Body Problem).
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 19:28
|
|
|
BEHOLD THE ALTERNATIVE (This came from a book that had come highly recommended on Amazon. The previous chapter had closed with the reveal that the contents of a mysterious box was a naked young woman. I have no idea what happened next because this is literally the last page I read.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 19:33
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Sometimes I wish books had an optional two paragraph "here is a crash course on the basics of how the world works" for those that need it. Nothing revealing the secrets of the world but more like "If you were a peasant in this world, these are fundamental concepts and terms you would understand." Do I hear FOUR prologues??
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 19:52
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:I get this though it may be best to simply accept being uncomfortable with not knowing what the hell is going on. The added context can help but isn't mandatory to fully grasp any and all machinations of the world. This has been my approach to most books lately and it's made a big difference in enjoying them, knowing that if there's information I must have, the author will drip feed it to me at some point or reference back to it after some other context has been established. I'd rather have that than heavy exposition that comes off as mind-numbing and laughable info dumps (looking at you, Three-Body Problem). Yeah. I think I get extra prickly because I've tried to read the Malazan Books in the past and people told me "Yeah, you won't understand what's happening in most of the books. You gotta finish the series and then reread it to understand what's going on." Needless to say, I did not make it far. I don't reread books. If I don't have the contextual information for what I'm experiencing, I'm going to forget the small details. Even worse, as soon as a bunch of terms are thrown at me that I have no context for, my adhd causes me to get distracted and I often (unintentionally) end up missing whole bits because my mind was elsewhere. I'm sure some people love going and re-reading books five times over, picking out little details they missed every time. But that ain't me. pik_d posted:Do I hear FOUR prologues?? Prologues all the way down.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 19:55
|
|
|
This is definitely not a Malazan situation. You will get enough info to understand how the world works within The Way of Kings. Yes, it's pretty dense at first, but this is just an initial hump to get over. It won't be this way in the other books.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:00
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:Yeah. I think I get extra prickly because I've tried to read the Malazan Books in the past and people told me "Yeah, you won't understand what's happening in most of the books. You gotta finish the series and then reread it to understand what's going on." Needless to say, I did not make it far. Difference between this and Malazan is he isn't trying to confuse you for the fun of it the world builds up at a good pace, the prologues are rough but quickly things get into a flow and are pretty understandable. One thing I love about Sanderson is he does explain everything and when he does it almost always makes complete sense and isn't some huge out of nowhere nonsense(except for that one thing) thing to the point that most big mysteries are successfully guessed ahead of time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
What if there was a whole SA book that was an info dump with no plot or anything
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:08
|
|
|
Big Bowie Bonanza posted:What if there was a whole SA book that was an info dump with no plot or anything I too have read Rhythm of War!
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:08
|
|
|
Big Bowie Bonanza posted:What if there was a whole SA book that was an info dump with no plot or anything You mean Rhythm of War?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:09
|
|
|
Big Bowie Bonanza posted:What if there was a whole SA book that was an info dump with no plot or anything Like some kind of Ars Arcanum, not bound by plot? What would you even call that? Edit: Wow apparently I made the wrong joke, but in fairness I haven't read that far yet
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:10
|
|
|
pik_d posted:Like some kind of Ars Arcanum, not bound by plot? What would you even call that?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:11
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:They're cracking a joke because the fourth book is widely regarded as being extremely heavy on exposition and comparatively light on plot. Exposition that we knew half of already he really should of picked a better character for flashbacks there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:37
|
|
|
Malazan is designed, from beginning to end, to be a mystery box that lies to you. Everything you're told could be wrong, or a misinterpretation. Every side scene could be a flap of a butterflies wings or just a random character moment. It's deliberate fuckery the whole way though. Sanderson is always clockwork in its self consistency once you have all the facts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:39
|
|
|
RoWs exposition does feel excessive *IF* you've had years of Sanderson and have even a passing interest in WoBs or the wiki or reddit or just general discussion about the random connections. If you're only limiting yourself to the direct publications and arent keeping track you'd need that explicit exposition.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:41
|
|
|
Rhythm of War has it's flaws, but I think once KOWT comes out, people who can read the first half of SA will find those easier to overlook. At bit like the Wheel of Time books. And it was difficult for Rhythm of War to come after Oathbringer, which is definitely in hot contention for Best Sanderson Book for me. Edit: M_Gargantua posted:RoWs exposition does feel excessive *IF* you've had years of Sanderson and have even a passing interest in WoBs or the wiki or reddit or just general discussion about the random connections. If you're only limiting yourself to the direct publications and arent keeping track you'd need that explicit exposition. Yeah, which makes me curious how Mordiceius will rate the book once they get to it. Edit2: There is actually one Malazan-like misdirection (Oathbringer spoilers!)in the earlier books at least, but it's imho pretty well received. Namely that the Alethi and others have good reason to doubt Dalinar's sanity and sincerity when "posing" as the (for Alethi standards) nearly pacifist politician. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jul 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
Oathbringer is my favorite Sanderson book and it's not even close to being a contest.M_Gargantua posted:Sanderson is always clockwork in its self consistency once you have all the facts. Steel and iron being used in repellant/attractant fabrials is such a neat touch. I don't think we've been explicitly told what's in something like a painrial, but it basically has to be zinc and brass.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 20:47
|
|
|
One tiny bit of worldbuilding that's easy to overlook but doesn't matter too much: Unless they are explicitly stated to have unusually big eyes, picture people in Stormlight Archive as vaguely Asian looking.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2023 22:21
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:One tiny bit of worldbuilding that's easy to overlook but doesn't matter too much: Unless they are explicitly stated to have unusually big eyes, picture people in Stormlight Archive as vaguely Asian looking. Yeah most of the people on Roshar have epicanthic folds on their eyes. Given epicanthic folds help protect your eyes against cold winds, I do wonder if that adaption was on the population pre-migration to Roshar or something they got Cultivated on to them to better adapt them to living outside sheltered lands like the Shin
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 00:14
|
|
|
Latest BrandoSando weekly update video he said he's really close to 300k words, so ~2/3 done with stormlight 5. After 4 books this year along waiting all of next year for another one is going to feel like eternity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 00:24
|
|
|
Unfortunately, the deranged Mormon scientists who created the book-writing robot capable of 100,000 words per day neglected to make a corresponding editor. Swear to God, his books take longer in post-production than they do at the typewriter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 00:31
|
|
|
Ended up coming across a lore primer for Roshar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL4M7Yx0SSE Thought it was pretty good and now I feel about 1000% more grounded in the series. Essentially spoiler-free.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 01:00
|
|
|
Yeah, this is a good primer. There are no real spoilers in there, or at least none that a first time reader would recognize, imho.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 01:27
|
|
|
I genuinely feel you’re doing yourself a disservice by trying to glean details about Roshar from an 18 minute video as everything discussed in it is eventually revealed in the books. You remove some of the mystery by being told about it and, in my opinion, may lose out on some of the oomph when these things come up. It’s okay to be comfortable with being uncomfortable but to each their own. e: As long as that’s the only primer you view you should be okay but all the burning questions or confusion will work itself out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 01:29
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:I genuinely feel you’re doing yourself a disservice by trying to glean details about Roshar from an 18 minute video as everything discussed in it is eventually revealed in the books. You remove some of the mystery by being told about it and, in my opinion, may lose out on some of the oomph when these things come up. It’s okay to be comfortable with being uncomfortable but to each their own.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 01:39
|
|
|
Being confused obviously impacted their enjoyment of the book, so I think it's okay to search for such a primer. All this Stormlight talk made me really hype for SA5 again. Thinking about what might happen in that book, I was always excited for the Szeth/Kaladin duo interactions, learning more about the Shin and Stone Shamanism, plus facing Ishar and whatever crazy stuff he might reveal. But that primer brought up Rysn's reaction to the "dull" vegetation of Shinovar. Yet we only saw this in an interlude, while we will get Kaladin's perspective on this very alien, very earth-like environment for probably several chapters! And to think that while this will be an important story thread, the freaking Contest of Champions is sure to take place in the next book, and I'm super hyped again. I think it's time for another re-read!
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 01:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 10:02 |
|
|
I mainly liked the video since it showed the map and where everything is. Another problem of the audiobook is being unable to easily reference a map when different countries are named. Also, being able to get a visual for the different ethnic groups. As for the things you mentioned - the blade/plate stuff is stuff I already learned in the prologue with Szeth, so I didn't mind that. The soulcaster stuff is something that actually went in one ear and out the other. All in all, I still I know nothing about terms that are clearly important (Knights Radiant, Desolations, Voidbringers), but I at least have a better idea of the general culture/geopolitical climate and what is "normal" in the world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2023 01:45
|
|