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A Preview that lists a bunch of changes for the Remaster. https://downloads.paizo.com/RemasterCorePreview.pdf It's going to be weird seeing the Outer Rifts as a thing. I think the Abyss could have stayed. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 01:57
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First impressions Big buff to Focus points with no more point cap and Refocus being unlimited. Small nerf to wizards spell selection. Produce Flame nee Ignition seems to have caught a small damage nerf if the caster is maxing their casting stat. Odd as cantrips were not setting the world ablaze. Really hope Thunderstrike is not an updated Shocking Grasp as thats Magus workhorse spell and that is not big downgrade for them. Psychics will need a revisit with the base form of their cantrips changed.
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Jul 25, 2023 02:42
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The focus changes are really nice. I've usually avoided focus stuff because of the limit, but now I can see lots of opportunities there for fun builds.
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Jul 25, 2023 03:06
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There has been a clarification that there is a hard 3 focus point cap elsewhere in the rules. However recharge is still improved, so I’ll take it.
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Jul 25, 2023 03:17
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A few things are still somewhat unclear. Do you still need to speak to cast spells with the concentrate trait, for example? Incidentally, I can't help but notice that while the wish ritual has the Rare trait, the Jann creature does not. A summoned Jann can't use Wanderer’s Wish, but there's no rule that a mind-controlled Jann can't use Wanderer's Wish. That seems like an easier way of achieving divinity than the Test of the Starstone. I guess the "The GM might decide a wish draws the attention of deities or other powerful creatures" language from the wish ritual could be taken as a limitation here, as could the "encourages growth and exploration" language; maybe even a mind-controlled jann can't grant a wish that leaves the recipient with nothing left to strive for.
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Jul 25, 2023 03:26
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HidaO-Win posted:First impressions It's actually a pretty big nerf to wizard spell selection. I wonder if there is something else the schools/wizards are going to get because becoming weaker is the last wizards needed. The produce Flame nerf does seem a bit weird too. Otherwise the list looks mostly positive from what I can see.
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Jul 25, 2023 03:56
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the detect magic change is the only one I’m kinda unsure on
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Jul 25, 2023 04:16
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sugar free jazz posted:the detect magic change is the only one I’m kinda unsure on Can you tell me what's different? Because the text looks the same to me.
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Jul 25, 2023 05:25
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boxen posted:Can you tell me what's different? Because the text looks the same to me. Used to give school of highest level effect. There aren’t schools anymore so it gives rank of highest level effect, which is kinda really different information
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Jul 25, 2023 05:29
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Andrast posted:It's actually a pretty big nerf to wizard spell selection. I'm confused, how is it a nerf to spell selection at all? I'm staring at the existing School rules and the new ones and they seem comparable? What am I missing 
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Jul 25, 2023 05:36
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DemonMage posted:I'm confused, how is it a nerf to spell selection at all? I'm staring at the existing School rules and the new ones and they seem comparable? What am I missing You have way less options for your school spells with the change. The example school spells are exactly the same as the current ones too so it does not look like those got changed. Granted there might be bunch of other Wizard changes in feats etc. in the full remaster but just looking at this document, it's mostly just reducing wizard school spell selection a lot. Andrast fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 05:49
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well apparently wizards are getting the most changes so I’d keep an eye on it
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Jul 25, 2023 05:54
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why are they getting rid of spell components again
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Jul 25, 2023 05:59
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Andrast posted:You have way less options for your school spells with the change. The example school spells are exactly the same as the current ones too so it does not look like those got changed. Fair fair, that is a downgrade. I guess I just glossed over it since it's not like you can't just learn the spells normally anyways but it does limit the school slot quite a bit. And it's still going from 11-29 options per school for level one spells to (seemingly) 3ish and that is obviously significant. On the bright side it does give the schools stronger theming. Guessing we'll probably end up with a lot more schools (over time only though?). Arivia posted:why are they getting rid of spell components again Legal told them to.
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Jul 25, 2023 06:03
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Same reason they are ditching spell schools.
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Jul 25, 2023 06:39
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Arivia posted:why are they getting rid of spell components again Because everyone ignored them anyway
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Jul 25, 2023 12:50
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I'm not really liking the way the curriculum idea is being developed for wizards. Gaining set spells at certain levels makes the wizard feel like a sorcerer and it doesn't really make sense to me. I'm not in school anymore so my "curriculum" would be independent of any formal training, and no divine or magical creature of any kind is giving the wizard their power so there is no set spell list to choose from beyond arcane spells. It seems like they are losing what the wizard is supposed to be by trying to remove it from OGL. I like spell components, but it doesn't really bug me that they are gone because I agree that most people didn't use them anyway and I can just make them up if I want to keep using them.
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Jul 25, 2023 13:29
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I wonder if Paizo is looking at Hex (The Magic Clone MMO, RIP King) and leaving them no angles of attack by changing anything that is too close to OGL content that could be used in a similar lawsuit.
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Jul 25, 2023 13:33
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gurragadon posted:I'm not really liking the way the curriculum idea is being developed for wizards. Gaining set spells at certain levels makes the wizard feel like a sorcerer and it doesn't really make sense to me. I'm not in school anymore so my "curriculum" would be independent of any formal training, and no divine or magical creature of any kind is giving the wizard their power so there is no set spell list to choose from beyond arcane spells. You can still learn other spells, the school spells are for the school spell slot. And nothing really stops you from saying you attended the Absalom Academy of Evocation and being an Evocation specialist (aside from them not being tagged that way, or a particularly persnickety GM I guess).
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Jul 25, 2023 13:38
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I don't have an issue with wizards getting a curriculum, either through a formal school or through a tutor somehow. I just don't like how there are specific curriculum spells you learn at certain levels. For instance, with the mentalism school, I just don't like how there are specific spells I must learn as a wizard. I think it would work better if every time I gained a level, I could learn 3 spells. Two would be of any curriculum and one would have to be from the chosen curriculum. I don't think the wizard should ever have a spell they are required to take. The problem I have is who is dictating to a wizard that can cast level 9 spells what spells they can learn?
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Jul 25, 2023 13:46
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quote:Curriculum Spells: You automatically add some of the spells listed in your school’s curriculum to your spellbook. At 1st level, you add a cantrip and two 1st‑rank spells of your choice. As soon as you gain the ability to cast wizard spells of a new rank, choose one of the spells from your curriculum of that rank to add to your spellbook. A superscript “U” indicates an uncommon spell. Your GM might allow you to swap or add other spells to your curriculum if they strongly fit the theme. I mean I guess it's worded in the way that you have to pick one, but you would have anyway, because it's a school spell and you have school spell slots.
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Jul 25, 2023 13:49
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I appears to be even worse than I thought then? With there being two choices per level to choose from as opposed to a whole school. I thought that they at least were giving me both of those spells for limiting options so much. My confusion is coming from the listing of spell levels and various spells under the mentalist section. It's making me think those are the only options.
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Jul 25, 2023 13:53
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Yeah, I don't see how the new thing is that much different from the old other than "it's not literally any $TYPE spell". I'd wait for the whole list of curricula to drop before assuming the sky is falling.
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Jul 25, 2023 13:59
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Yeah as I re-read it, I'm curious if it gives you the spell in addition to the free one you get each level or not, and some other questions. I guess we'll find out soon?
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Jul 25, 2023 14:02
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I'm not super worried about it because I mean worst case scenario, I'll just not update my wizard when it comes out and just stay transmutation. We don't know much but it appears that curriculums have a smaller spell list than the broader schools of the original wizard. For instance, if the spell list given is the mentalist curriculums spell list than there is a significant difference in choice of spells per level. The mentalist has 3 choices at level 1, my transmutation wizard has 9 choices of spells. Even transmutation has 2 choices for level 9 spells and it's a school that didn't even have a cantrip at release.
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Jul 25, 2023 14:07
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It does say "Your GM might allow you to swap or add other spells to your curriculum if they strongly fit the theme," so it basically comes down to what you can convince your GM to allow.
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Jul 25, 2023 14:33
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Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the sample curriculum provided in the extremely broad strokes overview preview document just has shorter spell lists!
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Jul 25, 2023 14:36
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It might, it kind of seemed like they were trying to give a selection of what they wanted each curriculum to look like. With there being more curriculums that are more specific with fewer spells, more similar to a sorcerer in my mind, rather than broader spell schools. It is all assumptions, but they released it because they wanted people to talk about it, so I doubt they were trying to misrepresent. They were giving themselves room to update based on feedback. The wizard strength was its bigger spell list and versatility, so anything that limits that is bad in my opinion for class development.
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Jul 25, 2023 15:27
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Arivia posted:why are they getting rid of spell components again If I remember correctly, because a spell having the Material/Somatic component is mechanically just giving it the Manipulate trait and Verbal is just giving it Concentrate, so they're just giving them Manipulate and Concentrate directly instead of putting them in nested traits you can forget. iirc they're also going to have a sidebar somewhere about how material components are a part of spellcasting and you can describe what that means for your character yourself as a nice flavor thing? EDIT: Why did I use two different forms of "if I remember correctly" in one post. What am I even doing? Lurks With Wolves fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 15:29
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gurragadon posted:I don't have an issue with wizards getting a curriculum, either through a formal school or through a tutor somehow. I just don't like how there are specific curriculum spells you learn at certain levels. I imagine the explanation is that when you were in school you were taught about these spells even though you weren't able to cast them yet. Those are the spells your teachers thought were cool and worth striving toward. You wrote down the formulas and theory behind the spell back when you were in training, but it didn't click until now.
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Jul 25, 2023 16:32
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Facebook Aunt posted:I imagine the explanation is that when you were in school you were taught about these spells even though you weren't able to cast them yet. Those are the spells your teachers thought were cool and worth striving toward. You wrote down the formulas and theory behind the spell back when you were in training, but it didn't click until now. Exactly. Plus, the curriculum spells are only for your what were previously specialist spell slots. You can still learn whatever the gently caress you want off the arcane tradition list for normal per-level spells; the "you pick one of this small subset" is when you reach a new spellcasting rank and is an extra for your curriculum slots.
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Jul 25, 2023 16:52
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Are there any classes besides Wizard that can't substitute something else for material components? IIRC they're the only class that had to give a poo poo about them RAW Edit: Looked it up and Witches are the only other class that has to care about them Scrap Dragon fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 16:55
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Kyrosiris posted:Exactly. It depends on if the curriculum slots are directly replacing the arcane slots or if those spells they listed in the document are just bonus spells that they learn automatically. If it is replacing the old slots directly than it is a decrease in choices for that specialist slot, which is just limiting wizards options. It's just less options to choose from for no reason. Facebook Aunt posted:I imagine the explanation is that when you were in school you were taught about these spells even though you weren't able to cast them yet. Those are the spells your teachers thought were cool and worth striving toward. You wrote down the formulas and theory behind the spell back when you were in training, but it didn't click until now. Yeah I can see that being plausible, I'm not a huge fan of it because I don't really think learning is like that in schools but it's not that big a deal. That stuff can be dealt with flavor changes in character story. It's a real redesign in how magic is taught though. High level spells are expensive so clearly there is something exclusive about them, if everyone "knows" them but just cant cast it than the value would be much less.
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Jul 25, 2023 17:07
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To me, high level curriculum spell lists for wizards read as equivalent to... If your character was a scientist and chose the astrophysicist specialisation, their original ground-breaking research at high level would be limited to something in your field. They're the spells that you develop from all that study and mastery of your kind of wizardry over the levels.
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Jul 25, 2023 18:27
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On an entirely different note, Wish being a ritual renders it probably unusable thanks to the godawful ritual mechanics of pf2e making failure much, much more punishing than success is beneficial for secondary checks is ridiculously bad
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Jul 25, 2023 22:13
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The old spell version of wish still exists; it’s just called manifestation now.
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Jul 25, 2023 22:54
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Silver2195 posted:The old spell version of wish still exists; it’s just called manifestation now. Oh, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the fun part of wish that's now a ritual
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Jul 25, 2023 23:34
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Jen X posted:Oh, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the fun part of wish that's now a ritual As I said, the real way to exploit the wish ritual is to get an Jann to do it for you.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:43
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Apparently they're removing +stat from damage across the board for spells which seems uh... extreme.
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Jul 26, 2023 03:07
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Silver2195 posted:As I said, the real way to exploit the wish ritual is to get an Jann to do it for you. sure man, mind control the genie to get its wishes and use them to become a god, go for it, whats the worst that could happen, he said, eying achaekek nervously Zore posted:Apparently they're removing +stat from damage across the board for spells which seems uh... extreme. weird, where's this from?
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Jul 26, 2023 03:10
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