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We all used to joke that the marine is jammed into there like an "S". To me, that is the root source of the lack of compatibility, at times the height isn't the biggest issue, it is head placement and how squat the old ones look.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:26
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the one in the middle is on a 4mm base instead of a 3mm and a hero rock and that makes p much all of the difference. here's a clearer comparison, albeit one where the older terms are still on shorter bases:  from experience, it's all arms. and the arms looked like the kind of conversions people were already doing with older models by pinning and shimming.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:26
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My experience was the opposite, if you elongate the torso on the old ones they look much better. It is miserable work though at times.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:32
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Eej posted:Yeah about that... 30 years of HRT
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Jul 25, 2023 21:34
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Tamiya extra thin also has a lemon scented version for $1 more, and boy howdy that’s a nice change let me tell you.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:37
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Yeast posted:Tamiya extra thin also has a lemon scented version for $1 more, and boy howdy that’s a nice change let me tell you. Mr Cement SP has a nice Pear drop smell from the ethyl acetate solvent.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:41
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Virtual Russian posted:It isn't, I had a ton of them, the early metal ones are shorter and stouter, boosting them up does help a lot, but they still stick out like a sore thumb. i reposted with a clearer post that didn't get hosed is by awful.app btw anyhow. dunno what to tell you, this was from personal experience but that was years and years ago and that army is long gone. i do not have the couple of hundred bucks it would take to show what it looks like to put 4e plastic arms on a RT body or pin the RT/2e arms to repose, let alone a collection of 90s/00s terms to compare. (plus i always feel bad about destructive conversions of that oldhammer metal these days, even when it's something as common as mid-90s metal marines.) Z the IVth posted:There's also dichloromethane aka Tenax Plastic Weld but that's increasingly hard to find and you can't buy it in bulk from chemical suppliers anymore on account of it having a nice collection of hazard warnings. also: soon to be banned in the US for good reason. it's highly toxic and an ozone depleter to boot. don't use this! Yeast posted:Tamiya extra thin also has a lemon scented version for $1 more, and boy howdy that’s a nice change let me tell you. the actual solvent smells like that! there's a few companies that make limonene plastic cement now. it's also the main ingredient in orange degreaser (orange TKO is a big brand) but i haven't heard of anyone using that, nor have i looked to see if that degreaser has any other ingredients that might be problematic. the only downside to limonene over other plastic cements is that it's slower to melt and slower to dry. so you will need to hold joins longer to tack, then wait longer for them to weld permanently. if you're not already comfortable with bracing cemented parts, it's best to learn if you're going to use it. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 21:41
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Virtual Russian posted:My experience was the opposite, if you elongate the torso on the old ones they look much better. It is miserable work though at times. Yeah, I wouldn't mix the old metal terminators with plastic ones, though I would be loving stoked to see a squad of them in someone's army or on the table
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Jul 25, 2023 21:42
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Improbable Lobster posted:Yeah, I wouldn't mix the old metal terminators with plastic ones, though I would be loving stoked to see a squad of them in someone's army or on the table When I went on a terminator buying spree I did find that there are 2 variants of the old metal terminators. The OG RT versions which are more rounded and hunched and the more commonly seen 2nd ed ones. The RT terminators have much more globby and soft details and are very old school. The 2nd ed ones mix with the 2nd ed plastics decently. They are all shorter than the Black Reach terminators which are more or less indistinguishable from "modern" terminators. The SM Heroes terminators have slightly different proportions and look taller but aren't really, mainly relying on proportions and scenic bases to carry the look. I haven't assembled my Leviathan termies yet to get another size comparison.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:48
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The waist sits so much lower on the 2nd edition ones, as does the head, but to a lesser degree. It gives them a different feeling and proportion that is far more important than height. As I said, I ran Deathwing for about a decade, I had at least one of everything that had been available. I had around 75 terms by the end, most of which I bought off a guy who wanted to switch to all plastics because he didn't think they mixed. I mixed them altogether because that was the only way I could field that army, but you could clearly tell the older stuff from the newer plastics. People talked about that all the time. They are different both in height and proportion, but how much that difference matters is 100% subjective. I've made sculptures almost all my adult life, I'm going to notice that sort of thing. If you don't mind that is totally fine. I still love the old ones, almost prefer them, but that comes down to my love of oldschool mini sculpting.
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Jul 25, 2023 22:00
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Cease to Hope posted:
Welp. Just realized I have half a bottle of Tenax-7R sitting on my hobby desk. I haven't used it in ages though. Guess I'll stick that in the back of a drawer.
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Jul 25, 2023 22:04
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Cease to Hope posted:also: soon to be banned in the US for good reason. it's highly toxic and an ozone depleter to boot. don't use this! Unrelated but just reminded me, I used to work in an archery shop and we would use methyl ethyl ketone to strip the glue off arrow fletchings to refletch them. This was most of my busywork throughout the day, and we had a pretty big stock of it as we'd buy a lot at once and I was usually the gofer sent to grab it from a local hardware store when we ran out. So one day we did, and I went to our local hardware chain to pick some up and the employee looked at me in horror and said no one sells that poo poo anymore because its toxic and destroys the ozone. A google search says its for sale again, so that's probably not good.
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Jul 25, 2023 22:56
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Virtual Russian posted:The waist sits so much lower on the 2nd edition ones, as does the head, but to a lesser degree. It gives them a different feeling and proportion that is far more important than height. As I said, I ran Deathwing for about a decade, I had at least one of everything that had been available. I had around 75 terms by the end, most of which I bought off a guy who wanted to switch to all plastics because he didn't think they mixed. I mixed them altogether because that was the only way I could field that army, but you could clearly tell the older stuff from the newer plastics. People talked about that all the time. I don't even know what you're talking about now. There are clearly a few different eras of terminators, each with varying proportions and they are becoming increasingly "taller" as time goes on. If anyone is saying 2nd ed terminators can mix with the black reach or more modern plastics seamlessly then they need to go go Specsacers. The 2nd ed plastics and metals are interchangeable though. I don't have any of the RT ones to compare so I wouldn't want to comment on how close they are proportionally. The sculpting is definitely off though. Nazzadan posted:Unrelated but just reminded me, I used to work in an archery shop and we would use methyl ethyl ketone to strip the glue off arrow fletchings to refletch them. This was most of my busywork throughout the day, and we had a pretty big stock of it as we'd buy a lot at once and I was usually the gofer sent to grab it from a local hardware store when we ran out. So one day we did, and I went to our local hardware chain to pick some up and the employee looked at me in horror and said no one sells that poo poo anymore because its toxic and destroys the ozone. Your shop person has got it wrong. According to google Methyl ethyl ketone makes ozone and is far less nasty than dichloromethane. Z the IVth fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 22:57
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Z the IVth posted:I don't even know what you're talking about now. When I say they don't mix with the plastics, I mean the 2nd edition mostly metal terms don't mix well with the newer plastic terminators, the 2nd edition plastics weren't something I ever had or saw, sorry. I draw the line at the Blackreach ones, it was such a update in size and proportion that the older ones essentially became obsolete. When the blackreach terms came out everyone wanted to offload the older 2nd edition terms and switch to the new plastic kits. Me being a poor teenager bought up the 2nd edition ones very cheap at that time, but I also bought a box of plastic blackreach ones because they kick rear end. I mixed them together because I couldn't afford to switch, not because I thought they matched. My key point is that the height alone isn't what makes them look off. You can prop a 2nd edition term up to the same height as a blackreach term, but because the proportions are also noticeably different fixing the height won't make them blend in. Virtual Russian fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 23:17
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Z the IVth posted:
Found more info, it's banned in SoCal apparently or was in the window when I worked there. Well at least it's less nasty and I didn't probably cause long term damage to myself huffing it all day and getting it on my skin.
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Jul 25, 2023 23:19
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Nazzadan posted:Unrelated but just reminded me, I used to work in an archery shop and we would use methyl ethyl ketone to strip the glue off arrow fletchings to refletch them. This was most of my busywork throughout the day, and we had a pretty big stock of it as we'd buy a lot at once and I was usually the gofer sent to grab it from a local hardware store when we ran out. So one day we did, and I went to our local hardware chain to pick some up and the employee looked at me in horror and said no one sells that poo poo anymore because its toxic and destroys the ozone. good news! that dude mixed it up with something else. MEK is reasonably safe, and a common household-use chemical. it's also called butanone and is the stuff that smells like acetone. the main solvent in pretty much every model cement is butanone. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 23:22
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You're probably right and the hardware store employee was just mixing up what I was asking for for something else, because I am finding MEK very clearly for sale online lol
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Jul 25, 2023 23:27
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I have about 20 2nd terminators painted up but no plastic ones from that period because they looked like trash. I really should sell them to spread the joy. No idea why anyone thinks they are any good compared to the more modern plastic ones.
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Jul 25, 2023 23:44
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I like them a lot, but that is also heavily influenced by nostalgia. I also love and studied art history, so ancient minis that were traditionally sculpted are way up my alley. The old sculpts look like they've jumped off some of those old black & white sketches that dominated codex's and rulebooks in the 90s. The new ones look exactly like the newer digital art, and being a traditionalist, don't excite me the same way. When I was a teenager the new ones really excited me because they matched the lore more, so zero shade from me. I understand the new ones are objectively better representations of what they are.
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Jul 25, 2023 23:56
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strange question, friend bought the Leviathan box set, and is handing me the Tyranids as he only wants the Marine to the Nurglefy them. I saw the Tyranids clock in at about 812 points out of the box, what Tyranid units should I for to round that out to a standard 1500 pt army? Not going to buy anything for a while, but curious if anyone's cooked up a guide.
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Jul 26, 2023 00:27
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My toxic trait is I’ve been back playing the game pretty consistently for 3 years now and still don’t know what most of the primaris poo poo is. I don’t know what an aggressor vs an intercessor is, Gravis is gibberish, all of the different emptor dreads are bewildering, we might have had blade guard veterans back in the day but I certainly never heard of em. Repulsor? Probably, but not on purpose.
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Jul 26, 2023 00:34
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:strange question, friend bought the Leviathan box set, and is handing me the Tyranids as he only wants the Marine to the Nurglefy them. I saw the Tyranids clock in at about 812 points out of the box, what Tyranid units should I for to round that out to a standard 1500 pt army? Not going to buy anything for a while, but curious if anyone's cooked up a guide. do you need all of the newbie advice on saving money or just want the basics on which units are points-dense but dollar-cheap and relatively useful?
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Jul 26, 2023 00:38
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:My toxic trait is I’ve been back playing the game pretty consistently for 3 years now and still don’t know what most of the primaris poo poo is. I don’t know what an aggressor vs an intercessor is, Gravis is gibberish, all of the different emptor dreads are bewildering, we might have had blade guard veterans back in the day but I certainly never heard of em. Repulsor? Probably, but not on purpose. I haven't actually played against Marines since 8th edition. The gaming group I was in just wasn't into them.
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Jul 26, 2023 00:42
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Cease to Hope posted:do you need all of the newbie advice on saving money or just want the basics on which units are points-dense but dollar-cheap and relatively useful? Probably a bit of both. I've played the game once or twice with a friend's army (All Imperium Guard).
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Jul 26, 2023 00:45
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Z the IVth posted:There's also dichloromethane aka Tenax Plastic Weld but that's increasingly hard to find and you can't buy it in bulk from chemical suppliers anymore on account of it having a nice collection of hazard warnings. For best results go to your local chemical supplier in a well tailored suit, slap your hand on the receptionists desk, and in a confident voice say "I want some dichloromethane". Because I can only hear it in a deadpan Irish brogue and on the offchance that there's a single person that hasn't seen the apotheosis of 'hobby' YouTube: https://youtu.be/3aCMTpJx2cs
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Jul 26, 2023 00:53
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I posted these in another thread but figured there might be someone who can use them here. I've made a bunch of 16x16 sprites and tilesets for a 40k TTRPG campaign. Background tiles for an Agri-World, a Tyranid Hive Ship or structure, and a WIP Space Hulk: https://postimg.cc/gallery/RVjGCd0/1d4216fe Players / NPCs: https://postimg.cc/gallery/v4DkyHQ/beb6a6b7 Objects and deployables, made with LANCER in mind but they might work for Rogue Trader, etc.: https://postimg.cc/gallery/fWTQNz3/f1143b17 Some highlights:    
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jul 26, 2023 |
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Jul 26, 2023 01:39
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:My toxic trait is I’ve been back playing the game pretty consistently for 3 years now and still don’t know what most of the primaris poo poo is. I don’t know what an aggressor vs an intercessor is, Gravis is gibberish, all of the different emptor dreads are bewildering, we might have had blade guard veterans back in the day but I certainly never heard of em. Repulsor? Probably, but not on purpose. If feel this is true for a lot armies we don't play. I've been back for a couple of years now and I don't know the difference between a broadside battlesuit or a crisis or coldstar battlesuit. Apparently a riptide is also a battlesuit, I thought it was a tank. I guess it's worse for marines because they have so many datasheets. Or maybe I just need to play more games.
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Jul 26, 2023 01:50
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:My toxic trait is I’ve been back playing the game pretty consistently for 3 years now and still don’t know what most of the primaris poo poo is. I don’t know what an aggressor vs an intercessor is, Gravis is gibberish, all of the different emptor dreads are bewildering, we might have had blade guard veterans back in the day but I certainly never heard of em. Repulsor? Probably, but not on purpose. haters' guide to primaris space marines space marines have way, way too many datasheets. they often have 2-3 datasheets where other armies would only have one. i think overloading new players with lots of bespoke special rules is a bad idea but i guess i don't work at games workshop! phobos armor is "light" armor with one shoulderpad and lots of random tacticool pouches, although the dudes all have the normal saves and toughness and wounds profile you expect from marines. basically all phobos guys are scouts with a normal MEQ statline, on a screen/speedbump suicide mission. only the eliminators are particularly threatening. these were the strongest argument that firstborn marines had a cancel date because phobos dudes don't do anything scouts can't except exist. incursors and infiltrators are both basically the same unit, a forward-deploy squad of marines with rifles who inevitably screen and eat poo poo. one kind of them has a big anti-deepstrike bubble so ask if you run one of those armies. eliminators look like tall sniper scouts with big camo cloaks and they are sniper scouts except that they fire and fade. they can also have sawed-off lascannon instead of sniper rifles. (it's less cool than it sounds, especially in 10e.) reivers are melee scouts with a bunch of special rules but nobody plays them because they're barely better in melee than dudes fighting with their fists. (there's a space wolf reiver variant that's kind of okay though.) phobos characters do tricky scout stuff, like fire and fade or gently caress with deployment. the most common one you'll see is the librarian, because basically gives his whole unit lone operative. tacticus is just the regular marine armor, primaris-edition. technically it's mk 10. this is the generic marine bucket. bladeguard look like middleweight melee elites because they are, and every other unit does the thing you'd expect a marine with that type of weapon to do. intercessors are boring bolter guys who have a grenade launcher guy that barely looks different because it's a tiny underbarrel attachment. standard boring cheap-ish objective sitters. assault intercessors are generic marines with chainswords and pistols and unremarkable in every way. bladeguard are fancy dudes with big swords, big kite shields, and poo poo covered in bones and skulls. they're typical middlewight "veteran" melee units, although they did a bit better than most such units in the 10e changeover because they're still D2, and they can get a little silly with some of the character attachments (although that's usually too many eggs in one basket). desolation squads are new from late 9e and can kiss my rear end. they're the ugly missile launcher primaris guys, and they're all armed with both a missile launcher and mortars. they ignore the penalties for shooting indirect and honestly gently caress desolators. hellblasters are a funny unit of all guys with plasma guns and they're basically suicide bombers. the plasma guns are just plasma guns, but whenever one of them dies, they can shoot again on death, even if it's from plasma overheat. infernus are the boring flamer guys from leviathan. suppressors are a unit you'll almost never see: they're jump-pack dudes with autocannon and they're only available as part of a monopose sprue that GW doesn't actually sell at the moment. they're not dudes you'll ever see anyone play, just the answer to a trivia question. tacticus characters run the widest range and can do literally anything, so check what they do first. gravis marines are the big fat guys, with fat-looking helmets, bigger kneepads, and boots with crenelations. look a bit elite but generally aren't. they're 5" move (unless they fly), T6, and 3W. they're surprisingly durable against small arms but just eat poo poo to anything heavier than a stormbolter, lol. mainly they try to waddle in range to absolutely gently caress up something with short-ranged weapons. mostly they wish that they could grow up and be obliterators someday. several of these units are currently serving time for crimes committed during previous editions, and they're all kind of the high side points-wise for what they do. be careful, though, because all of them can be annoying (if way, way too expensive) with the addition of a character. aggressors are the ones with horribly-ugly power fists with guns glued to them. these look a little like terminators but instead they're basically walking shotgun batteries. these shoot more bolter shots than you'd generally expect from three guys, or you can give them flamers if you thought the problem with infernus marines was that they don't also have power fists. eradicators (not to be confused with eliminators, lol) have melta guns and... shoot melta guns, you know what meltas do. horribly designed atm, since they reroll dice against the exact type of target you'd want to target with Oath of Moment anyway. heavy intercessors are... intercessors but heavy. pointless unit, and not common because they're also weirdly expensive in rl money and haven't (yet) seen much duty as value box filler. inceptors (these names get really abstract) look like fat spacemen on jetpack frames dual-wielding plasma guns, or sometimes bolters that are proxies for plasma guns. gently caress you they look cool. deepstriking suicide mission team that can land within 3", and currently pretty mediocre. gravis characters also run the gamut but there are less of them so they tend to be a little bit less wild. bikes! i didn't know where else to put these, but they're all overpriced poo poo that sucks! outriders cost 115 for three guys with chainswords and bolters and no other interesting abilities to speak of. invader atvs might be good if they get a cost decrease because they can shoot twice as long as there's two units of them. i guess they have a lot of wounds? who cares! the end!
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Jul 26, 2023 02:31
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You guys are making me miss 3rd edition E: Whoever said the Space Marines got Aspect Warriorized really nailed it and I can't stop thinking about it now. I have full size squads Of Aggressors, Eradicators & Heavy Intercessors. smug jeebus fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 26, 2023 |
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Jul 26, 2023 03:08
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I bet we see some sort of new firstborn nostalgia release in 5 to 7 years
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Jul 26, 2023 03:16
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Improbable Lobster posted:I bet we see some sort of new firstborn nostalgia release in 5 to 7 years God I hope so, this poo poo is so dire. That post up there doing a rundown of all the primaris marines was brilliant but also made my head hurt.
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Jul 26, 2023 04:32
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Marines got Aspect Warriored because you can sell more kits and also generalist units suck to play with in general. Either your dudes are so good they are anti everything or the extra missile launcher in a squad threatens approximately nothing.
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Jul 26, 2023 04:42
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Improbable Lobster posted:I bet we see some sort of new firstborn nostalgia release in 5 to 7 years isn't this just horus heresy? they just came out with an edition starter crammed full of beakies even. Eej posted:Marines got Aspect Warriored because you can sell more kits and also generalist units suck to play with in general. Either your dudes are so good they are anti everything or the extra missile launcher in a squad threatens approximately nothing. smug jeebus posted:You guys are making me miss 3rd edition most of the primaris units had a bunch of fake options that were like "bolter A, bolter B, or bolter C" or "melta A, melta B, and melta C" and there was pretty much always a right answer. that poo poo was stupid and it was good to flush it in 10e to let people do whatever they thought looked cool, but it did somewhat obscure how task-specific those units are. plus indexhammer means units just get whittled down to their essence. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jul 26, 2023 |
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Jul 26, 2023 04:46
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Eej posted:Marines got Aspect Warriored because you can sell more kits and also generalist units suck to play with in general. Either your dudes are so good they are anti everything or the extra missile launcher in a squad threatens approximately nothing. Yeah, that was SM whole thing: they were tactically flexible and could theoretically be good, but not necessarily great, against any target. This was in direct contrast to the Xenos like Eldar that hyper-specialized. Primaris killed that because they're a Fluff Void. They have basically no characterization beyond "force people to buy full kits for every special weapon they want".
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Jul 26, 2023 05:10
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i was gonna get leviathan but some poo poo happened and i had to take a few months off from games instead. planning on picking up the new rulebook (would rather have physical copy plus i like the fluff) and mission cards. are the CSM data cards horrifically inaccurate already? would rather not print them or stare at my phone all game
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Jul 26, 2023 05:36
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Improbable Lobster posted:I bet we see some sort of new firstborn nostalgia release in 5 to 7 years That's already happening a bit, look at the Leviathan sternguard with some mk7 nods, and terminators rising from the grave gravis had been digging for them. They've set it up in lore that they're blending and integrating primaris and first born more, they're going to start doing first born nods in design. Shame that the primaris floating vehicles are crap though. 
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Jul 26, 2023 05:38
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John Romero posted:i was gonna get leviathan but some poo poo happened and i had to take a few months off from games instead. planning on picking up the new rulebook (would rather have physical copy plus i like the fluff) and mission cards. are the CSM data cards horrifically inaccurate already? would rather not print them or stare at my phone all game the new rulebook that you can buy in stores is just the rules. the leviathan rulebook is the rules, fluff, and crusade rules. some of the rules are also in the leviathan mission deck, including the rules for secondaries and a chunk of the tournament rules. unfortunately, all of the standalone decks were misprinted and now recalled, but you can still find a fairly cheap deck from a leviathan box if you look around. (black box should be kosher, grey box is definitely not. check the backs of the cards, particularly the secondary objectives.) you can also find the rulebook and levi halves, too, if you look. might even be able to find copies of leviathan, tbh. it wasn't scarce. the CSM unitcards deck is fine. GW has an errata document and the errors are mostly minor. personally, i'd just print them out; here's the datasheets laid out for printing (free but donations welcome), and there hasn't been any errata to datasheets since that guy did that. (there's supposedly errata coming this week, though.)
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Jul 26, 2023 05:57
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Even if you don't wanna buy the cards cause they're out of date (Chaos Rhinos and Predator Destructors absolutely have typos that will be fixed on them and Chaos Terminators had a typo fixed already) just do the above and print them instead of staring at your phone. How many possible cards are you going to carry to any given game? Embrace the tactile feel of actual physical cards and get off the dang phone!!
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Jul 26, 2023 06:08
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Probably a bit of both. I've played the game once or twice with a friend's army (All Imperium Guard). Build and paint the leviathan stuff for a month or two while you wait for the Tyranid codex to hit, which might drastically change the advice you get.
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Jul 26, 2023 07:53
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Eej posted:Even if you don't wanna buy the cards cause they're out of date (Chaos Rhinos and Predator Destructors absolutely have typos that will be fixed on them and Chaos Terminators had a typo fixed already) just do the above and print them instead of staring at your phone. How many possible cards are you going to carry to any given game? Embrace the tactile feel of actual physical cards and get off the dang phone!! The app is also annoying in that I keep fatfingering some random button have to click back through from the basic menu all the drat time. I played my first 10th ed game yesterday, a Combat Patrol IG Vs AdMech. The app issue combined with the weird and somewhat dumb squad options meant that I spent way too much time scrolling. I'm absolutely buying the cards and writing in any minor errata, just to have something solid and stable to look up stuff from. The good news is that I still won my battle, mostly by accident after sending wave after wave of my men to their deaths. Everyone except for my commander and rocket artillery model died at least once to give me a 55-53 win. 
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Jul 26, 2023 08:03
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