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ScootsMcSkirt posted:ppl that spend several minutes at the end of each battle running down routed units are insane I only really heal after the main battle has ended but I think manually killing things can change the type of victory you get
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Jul 25, 2023 17:11
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:33 |
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ScootsMcSkirt posted:ppl that spend several minutes at the end of each battle running down routed units are insane 1. Autoresolve says I'll lose. I can beat this army. In beating them I army-loss them before the lord is killed, and I want him to not get XP AND I want him off the field for a few turns (AR wipes out the target so if the AR estimated my skills correctly this would be happening anyway). I must chase him down. This is common. 2. I want to minimize casualties, maybe to 0 (this is especially common early game). AR gives me a win but I don't trust its "Low" to be my low, or maybe it's Close/Medium and I know I can do better. Once again I shatter them before the lords or heroes are dead. I must chase him down. This is common. 3. (2) but I, at the very least, want to maximize XP, or meat/food/etc. (the game weights lords/heroes heavily for this compared to killing units, especially low-tier chaff). This means no matter how well I'm doing these guys gotta die. This is relatively common depending on faction needs. In all of these the ideal outcome is the death of a lord from a campaign strategy perspective, but winning the battle at a combat strategy perspective might mean the captain has not yet gone down with the ship. And also, you're ultimately doing "what if auto resolve modeled my abilities better" anyway.
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Jul 25, 2023 17:19
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I mean far be it from me to yuck your yum if you like the idea of chasing around Karl Franz and a rotating cast of redshirts for 30 turns but I personally feel there is a better way to do things
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Jul 25, 2023 17:25
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Settra chasing Arkhan off the map pushing him with his mega chariot was funny but also frustrating. It happens often still
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Jul 25, 2023 17:27
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It's a 30 second investment and fun to watch dogs and fliers tear apart suckers on max speed. And definitely emptying guns into runners backs. Love it.
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Jul 25, 2023 17:43
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It also vastly effects special currencies during battle results. Labour, infections, replenishment. It is always better to fight and attempt to run down. At least before you're rich in everything.
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Jul 25, 2023 17:44
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Twigand Berries posted:It also vastly effects special currencies during battle results. Labour, infections, replenishment. It is always better to fight and attempt to run down. At least before you're rich in everything. A point in favor of vampire counts: they actually, sanely, only care about raw deaths for battle markers.
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Jul 25, 2023 17:56
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which kinda fucks you if you're whacking sem-heavy faction
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Jul 25, 2023 18:02
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if you crush their stack in the field, can't you just roll up and auto-resolve the tattered remains of their stack next turn anyway? though if you really want to absolutely make sure that a particular fleeing unit dies, i find that it helps to run a unit ahead of them and then charge them from the front. tends to work better than cutting them down from behind
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Jul 25, 2023 18:05
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Vizuyos posted:if you crush their stack in the field, can't you just roll up and auto-resolve the tattered remains of their stack next turn anyway?
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Jul 25, 2023 18:13
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Another change from 2 is that when you autoresolve a stack it wipes it now rather than damaging it and setting up for a second battle through retreat.
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Jul 25, 2023 18:14
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Twigand Berries posted:Another change from 2 is that when you autoresolve a stack it wipes it now rather than damaging it and setting up for a second battle through retreat. not if they're vampires. they have a chance to dead rising
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Jul 25, 2023 18:27
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Yeah, in addition to taking out the lord, it can be worth running down artillerymen or RoRs, or monsters, so that the next time you fight it or autoresolve it's that much more favourable to you. Pretty much the only way to lose your own units during this phase are those that get hit by your own artillery or archers, or if they disintegrate (which is kind of frustrating, how bad can your morale be, your team has definitely won the fight) but other than those, it's time for extra XP or resources. As others have said, you can just triple speed them if you're getting bored. I feel like they did slightly improve the charging animations and mechanics with that last patch, supposedly guys can take damage from being knocked around, try and run chariots down stairs or a steep hill and you will literally destroy units.
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Jul 25, 2023 19:11
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The goblin wolf-riders might be one of the worst units in the game. Chasing down enemies post-battle is the only time they get to shine.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:53
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Chemtrailologist posted:The goblin wolf-riders might be one of the worst units in the game. Chasing down enemies post-battle is the only time they get to shine.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:57
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If you wipe out enemy artillery, you're the same race, and you don't have a full roster, you can sometimes capture the guns/catapults too.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:58
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Chemtrailologist posted:The goblin wolf-riders might be one of the worst units in the game. Chasing down enemies post-battle is the only time they get to shine. Worse than mounted yeomen?
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Jul 25, 2023 22:18
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Jamwad Hilder posted:If you wipe out enemy artillery, you're the same race, and you don't have a full roster, you can sometimes capture the guns/catapults too. There's a 10% chance to take their artillery if, and only if, the crew does not fully die and you have space in the army that started the fight. I don't know how this applies to single entity artillery like little grom or chorf stuff, but presumably all you need is to have the same culture as the enemy and the unit to be labeled artillery. This used to mean there was a 10% chance chance to steal an early rocket battery in the empire starter quest, but they've since gotten rid of it for IE so it's more of a fun fact than anything else 
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Jul 25, 2023 23:01
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Onehandclapping posted:There's a 10% chance to take their artillery if, and only if, the crew does not fully die and you have space in the army that started the fight. I don't know how this applies to single entity artillery like little grom or chorf stuff, but presumably all you need is to have the same culture as the enemy and the unit to be labeled artillery. Yeah getting that rocket battery early was so much fun
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Jul 25, 2023 23:54
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Chemtrailologist posted:The goblin wolf-riders might be one of the worst units in the game. Chasing down enemies post-battle is the only time they get to shine. Goblin wolf riders are one of my favorite dirt cheap cavalry for swarming so I won't stand by and hear this slander, get them some stat buffs with a gobbo lord leading 19 of them and watch them melt enemies as they envelope from every angle.
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Jul 26, 2023 03:40
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I think the perception that wolf riders are trash comes from their role and starting position. One of the things that they excel at is taking out missile units, but the first missile unit they come across are quarrelers which are tough as nails and can sometimes win a combat vs wolf riders because of their high leadership and armor. But in reality wolf riders are great against just about anything else that shoots.
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Jul 26, 2023 04:58
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Finally got around to beating an Astragoth RoC campaign. One of the rewards allows your Daemonsmith heroes to blow up cities on a 10-turn cooldown. Giving your vampire fleet captains the ability to do that to ports would have been a cool way to implement the player gaining control of Amanar in the Vampirate Vortex campaign, instead of just giving you immunity to the zones where it decided to appear.
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Jul 26, 2023 05:23
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I think the perception that wolf riders are trash comes from their role and starting position. One of the things that they excel at is taking out missile units, but the first missile unit they come across are quarrelers which are tough as nails and can sometimes win a combat vs wolf riders because of their high leadership and armor. But in reality wolf riders are great against just about anything else that shoots. Dwarves are an incredibly bad starting enemy for orcs. If you can, go somewhere else and fight anything that isn't a dwarf.
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Jul 26, 2023 16:31
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What kind of mid- to late- game army compositions are people going with for Kislev? Tzar Guard look kind of expensive relative to their stats compared to Armoured Kossars, and they don't have the ranged attack. Ice Guard seem decent, especially with their reduced cost and buffs from Katarina but their lower armour makes me think they'll be too squishy. For cav- are Bear Riders the way to go? I hope so because a bunch of dudes riding armoured bears feels epic. I've struggled to get them to punch at their weight but that might just be because I've left them in protracted melees. Alternatively I'm wondering if there is value in taking the sleds and just perfuming donuts in the enemies' lines For artillery lend-leasing hellstorms and great cannon from my Empire allies feels like it'll have more impact than little Groms.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:28
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Carcer posted:Dwarves are an incredibly bad starting enemy for orcs. If you can, go somewhere else and fight anything that isn't a dwarf. Yeah, most/all greenskin units in the early game loving suck against dwarfs. Like every other faction you should spend some time killing your own species first, and wolf riders are extremely good at chewing up goblins, goblin archers, and arrer boyz.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:32
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jokes posted:Yeah, most/all greenskin units in the early game loving suck against dwarfs. Like every other faction you should spend some time killing your own species first, and wolf riders are extremely good at chewing up goblins, goblin archers, and arrer boyz. also helps a ton that orcs auto-confederate defeated orc faction leaders. so you can snowball very quickly then call a Waaagh and catapult to a superpower
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Jul 26, 2023 17:46
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I'm in a kostaltyn campaign currently that's getting to around turn 100, can't say i've got tons of high level units in any of my armies. You're right that empire artillery is better at being artillery, but grom isn't useless because being pulled by two bears means that getting attacked by some furies or even cavalry isn't as bad as it could be. Strelsi are good for the range, I like having a frontline that is mixed strelsi and armoured kossars, and then regular kossars behind since they can shoot over. I'd imagine once I get Ice guard I'd work on replacing the kossars with them, so they'd still be behind the frontline taking advantage of the more armoured guys in front whilst shooting over. You're right about bear riders, they are your best cavalry, and slightly better at being trapped in combat. I really think they did a good job with kislev in feeling, both on campaign map and battle. My campaign is a back and forth slaughter, constantly losing and retaking towns, keeping norsca and chaos from ravaging everywhere else south of me through copious amounts of blood, and all the hybrid units make sense when you're facing tons of melee heavy armies. As for Tsar Guard, as you say a melee only unit doesn't really serve the rest of the army, might as well be bear riders who have more mobility to chase down cavalry before they start mucking about your firing lines.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:51
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AttitudeAdjuster posted:What kind of mid- to late- game army compositions are people going with for Kislev? I give Katarin an Ice Guard stack and everyone else is a mixture of Armoured Kossars and Strelsi supported by some artillery pieces and bear cav. I use the bear cav to stop/kill large units that would rampage through my army and gun down everything else.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:57
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Also don't sleep on heavy war sleds, they're very versatile. They do well as skirmishers and as line breakers, just don't let them stay too long in melee.
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Jul 26, 2023 20:16
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Tzar Guard are really good late game at holding back the 2-6 RoR units that Archaon/etc tend to mix into their doomstacks. They are up there with Ironbreakers in holding the line, especially if you have some heroes nearby. I usually mix 2-4 of them in, otherwise you get rolled late-game unless AR or play skirmish tag for 30 minutes a battle. I really like Ice Guard too though and often have a bunch. I prefer Little Groms for the redline bonuses and their mobility/tankiness. Kislev in general is a very miserable but thematic campaign. I usually just build up the cities and ignore the minors until the late game when you can actually hold territory. With Boris I will usually kill off Archaon and then sail back to take back everything that Kostalyn and Katarin have lost (usually everything). If you let Archaon build up in the chaos wastes its such a miserable end game getting rid of him, takes forever.
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Jul 26, 2023 20:25
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I've been relying on Ice Guard, Streltsi, and Little Groms as the core of my armies, with a few heavy war sleds and bear riders depending on the army. More recently I've been supplementing with allied irondrakes from making friends with Ungrim. Elemental bears are cool, but I never feel like they do enough damage or soak up enough fire to be worth the price.
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Jul 26, 2023 20:45
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The RoR bear is pretty outstanding but the regular Elemental bears aren't worth the cost IMO.
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Jul 26, 2023 20:50
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Elemental bears are morale-destroyers, ideally used to rear-charge already-engaged units. This will usually rout them (it has fear/terror) and also slows them down so they can get super-chopped up by armored kossars in guard mode. They're really not good at killing or absorbing damage.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:13
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Kossars are pretty decent considering they're half or a third the cost of an alternative unit. If they're led by an Ice Witch (for the Ice Maiden's Kiss and Ice Sheet slows) and backed up by a Patriarch (to heal and hold the front line) they can be very effective on the defensive. They address Kislev's biggest need, which is strategic coverage. Plus they don't need any construction building, which simplifies the logistics. If you want you can supplement them with War Bears and Little Groms, though frankly that's pretty expensive for what you're getting so you'll want a great economy to do that. A better option is to put together specialist elite armies that take advantage of the various upkeep reductions available. Katarin's coterie of Ice Guard, Boris' pack of War Bears, or Kostaltyn's congregation of Patriarchs are lethal and quite cost effective. And you can pretty easily assemble an army or two of low-upkeep Heavy War Sleds led by Charioteer Frost Maidens.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:17
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Yeah I just poo poo Kossars everywhere, even late game. Cheap and okish and let me cover a large area. Exception was Boris's stack of Bear cav and Katarin's ice guard stack (which was busy getting the souls half the time)
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Jul 26, 2023 21:23
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Kossars are excellent orc-style units, and you can make perfectly serviceable armies that are nothing but Kossars.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:27
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I find strelsi to be a very tough, versatile unit once you get your economy going. But the answer as others have said is just more Kossars. They are cheap and versatile, a decent tarpit for enemy melee, and decent DPS in concentrated fire situations.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:28
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Spear Kossar front line, regular Kossars to fire, manuever and envelop, Patriarchs to buff, and casters for big damage. This army will do well for far longer than you'd predict.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:42
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Kossars of every stripe are lovely and relatively expensive for what you get. That being said, you can still throw unlimited amounts of them at the enemy by turn 10 because Kislev is basically Russian Skaven.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:51
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:33 |
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Yes-yes Comrade-comrade
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Jul 26, 2023 21:53
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