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LatwPIAT posted:My favourite is when “chaos magick” appears as a focus. Because M20 is a game about chaos magic being real but nobody knows it. And some of the Traditions are outright chaos magicians. And, still, somehow, it was necessary to note that like half the Traditions and Crafts ones can do magic within their paradigm by explicitly using chaos magic. Yeah, I also like it where they talk about how the Verbena use 'practical tools dating back to antiquity' like 'cybernetics' and, oops, 'chaos magick' and whatever the 'Art of Desire' is.
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Jul 26, 2023 13:42
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The art of desire is a legit thing. The best read on it is probably Eros and Magic in the Renaissance, which I highly recommend to anyone running Sorcerer's Crusade.
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Jul 26, 2023 14:05
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Five Eyes posted:Without getting into it, the Etherites are the Pooka and Orphans are often the Malks. Oh no, do get into it!
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Jul 26, 2023 14:30
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Apparently today's the 20th anniversary of the announcement that White Wolf was ending the World of Darkness with the Time of Judgement. You know If you want to feel absolutely loving ancient.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:08
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Time of Judgment 20th Anniversary Edition!
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Jul 26, 2023 15:11
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We're bringing V20 to a close, and soon will be announcing V30 Anniversary Editions or whatever.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:35
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The Etherites have their own scientific magazine where they apply the scientific method to magic, it's great. Okay so we know the Hermetics can throw fireballs, how does it work and how can we replicate it?
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Jul 26, 2023 15:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Etherites have their own scientific magazine where they apply the scientific method to magic, it's great. Hermetic heads are just shaped different
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Jul 26, 2023 15:46
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Etherites have their own scientific magazine where they apply the scientific method to magic, it's great. Forces 3, Prime 2, probably chanting Enochian.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:54
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Loomer posted:The art of desire is a legit thing. The best read on it is probably Eros and Magic in the Renaissance, which I highly recommend to anyone running Sorcerer's Crusade. I'm not surprised, but I think the actual problem is more that Goat Man writes without ever stopping to wonder if anyone else knows what he's talking about. What the various ratings of M20's Research skill do are mapped to fairly detailed knowledge of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and another expects you to have watched Big Trouble In Little China. Just straight-up not explaining what Art of Desire is or does is very much a Brucato thing. "Gutter magick" has the same problem.
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Jul 26, 2023 15:57
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It's just not actually practical to base your Mage splats first and foremost around which yantras each group prefers. You run into all the historic and cultural (mis)categorization problems explored in this thread's past couple pages and end up turning the actually game-relevant characteristics of a given mage character (what kind of magic they're good or bad at and what political or strategic focus they devote that magic to) as arbitrarily and often contentiously stapled-on afterthoughts. Whence the Traditions' memetic purchase despite all these problems? Oops, they're yet another oWoD proxy for race!
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Jul 26, 2023 16:45
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Fair, but everyone really should watch Big Trouble in Little China and then listen the commentary track.
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Jul 26, 2023 16:47
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LatwPIAT posted:I'm not surprised, but I think the actual problem is more that Goat Man writes without ever stopping to wonder if anyone else knows what he's talking about. What the various ratings of M20's Research skill do are mapped to fairly detailed knowledge of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and another expects you to have watched Big Trouble In Little China. Just straight-up not explaining what Art of Desire is or does is very much a Brucato thing. "Gutter magick" has the same problem. I'm also extremely fuzzy on "crazy wisdom."
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Jul 26, 2023 17:40
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Soonmot posted:Fair, but everyone really should watch Big Trouble in Little China and then listen the commentary track.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:42
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Soonmot posted:Fair, but everyone really should watch Big Trouble in Little China and then listen the commentary track. I will endorse this paradigm.
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Jul 26, 2023 17:44
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Loomer, your Scottish Presbyterian Euthanatos sect is cool as hell. Does their spellcasting just look like prayer or do they incorporate any of the less catholic folk magic practices from Scotland?
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Jul 26, 2023 17:44
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Nessus posted:This is ideology. And the deleted scenes. Seeing the Lords of Death* get what was coming to was satisfying. *Street gang, punks from Chinatown.
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Jul 26, 2023 18:06
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Dawgstar posted:I'm also extremely fuzzy on "crazy wisdom." It’s not explained at all, but broadly it’s the concept of a kind of religious or divine mania, and more narrowly it relates to Tibetan Buddhist Chögyam Trungpa’s teachings, which "traditionally combines exceptional insight and impressive magical power with a flamboyant disregard for conventional behavior." But if I wanted to be mean I’d say it’s in the book because it lets you pretend walking around naked gives you magic powers.
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Jul 26, 2023 19:12
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Dawgstar posted:And the deleted scenes. Seeing the Lords of Death* get what was coming to was satisfying. I have an autographed pic of James Hong as Lo Pan that a kind goon picked up for me at a convention about ten years ago. I love that movie. Yo, Is this Racist had a good episode on it too and it was really cool to hear Chinese Americans talk about the movie and what it does right and the mistakes it makes.
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Jul 26, 2023 19:20
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LatwPIAT posted:It’s not explained at all, but broadly it’s the concept of a kind of religious or divine mania, and more narrowly it relates to Tibetan Buddhist Chögyam Trungpa’s teachings, which "traditionally combines exceptional insight and impressive magical power with a flamboyant disregard for conventional behavior." Interesting! I do wish Brucato would explain this stuff but I assume he thinks a 'true seeker' would find it out or whatever. LatwPIAT posted:But if I wanted to be mean I’d say it’s in the book because it lets you pretend walking around naked gives you magic powers. LOL. Get owned, Goat Boy. Especially because I had to read about the sample character in M20, which is a 16-year-old girl with two dots in Seduction aaaaaaah. Soonmot posted:I have an autographed pic of James Hong as Lo Pan that a kind goon picked up for me at a convention about ten years ago. I love that movie. Yo, Is this Racist had a good episode on it too and it was really cool to hear Chinese Americans talk about the movie and what it does right and the mistakes it makes. The Asian people of my acquaintance while saying it's not perfect by any means also 100% recognize immediately Jack's the comedic sidekick and respect the movie for that.
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Jul 26, 2023 19:46
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Dawgstar posted:The Asian people of my acquaintance while saying it's not perfect by any means also 100% recognize immediately Jack's the comedic sidekick and respect the movie for that. That was the best part of the whole thing, coupled with his firm belief that he's the main guy.
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Jul 26, 2023 19:48
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LatwPIAT posted:
It's this, we all know it's this because he's a creepy nerd.
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Jul 26, 2023 19:49
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LatwPIAT posted:But if I wanted to be mean I’d say it’s in the book because it lets you pretend walking around barefoot gives you magic powers. This being Brucato
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Jul 26, 2023 19:54
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LatwPIAT posted:
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Jul 26, 2023 19:58
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LatwPIAT posted:But if I wanted to be mean I’d say it’s in the book because it lets you pretend walking around naked gives you magic powers. To be fair, this was pretty much Chögyam Trungpa’s real-life philosophy, including forcing it on others whether they wanted to or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%B6gyam_Trungpa#Controversies posted:At the Halloween party, after many, including Trungpa himself, had taken off their clothes, Merwin was asked to join in but refused. On Trungpa's orders, his Vajra Guard forced entry into Merwin's locked and barricaded room; brought him and his girlfriend, Dana Naone, against their will, to the party; and eventually stripped them of their clothes, with onlookers ignoring Naone's pleas for help and for someone to call the police.[90] Crazy wisdom, straight from the originator.
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Jul 26, 2023 20:13
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SimonChris posted:To be fair, this was pretty much Chögyam Trungpa’s real-life philosophy, including forcing it on others whether they wanted to or not. Which is logical and true and also now I’m convinced was some writer’s gross fetish *and of course also Blood and Death and Fear and such
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Jul 26, 2023 21:04
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Dawgstar posted:Especially because I had to read about the sample character in M20, which is a 16-year-old girl with two dots in Seduction aaaaaaah. That's... literally Brucato's fetish. It's in most of his books.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:35
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Kurieg posted:That's... literally Brucato's fetish. It's in most of his books. Was she also described with dirty blonde hair and barefoot? Like, seriously, I wish I could unlearn the poo poo I learned when I read his 'magical drug-fueled music' RPG.
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Jul 26, 2023 22:34
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Soonmot posted:I have an autographed pic of James Hong as Lo Pan that a kind goon picked up for me at a convention about ten years ago. I love that movie. Yo, Is this Racist had a good episode on it too and it was really cool to hear Chinese Americans talk about the movie and what it does right and the mistakes it makes. It's probably still one of the Hollywood movies with the most asian-american cast members.
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Jul 26, 2023 22:45
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MoonKnight posted:Was she also described with dirty blonde hair and barefoot? Like, seriously, I wish I could unlearn the poo poo I learned when I read his 'magical drug-fueled music' RPG. Surprisingly not, but it's still very fetishy. She's described as, basically, a street kid but makes it look good. And she wears a utilikilt which shouldn't make me laugh but does. Anyway, on this august anniversary, treat yourself to the Time of Judgement news ticker: http://web.archive.org/web/20060614004934/http://www.timeofjudgment.com/newsticker.html
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Jul 26, 2023 22:55
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Dawgstar posted:Surprisingly not, but it's still very fetishy. She's described as, basically, a street kid but makes it look good. And she wears a utilikilt which shouldn't make me laugh but does. It is very important that we get to know she had a threesome with her girlfriend and her boyfriend, though. It’s literally the first part of her description.
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Jul 26, 2023 23:37
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LatwPIAT posted:It is very important that we get to know she had a threesome with her girlfriend and her boyfriend, though. It’s literally the first part of her description. BRUCATO!!!! 
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Jul 26, 2023 23:42
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Yeah teens never do any of that stuff.
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Jul 26, 2023 23:53
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LatwPIAT posted:It is very important that we get to know she had a threesome with her girlfriend and her boyfriend, though. It’s literally the first part of her description. "Which is why the new dots of Seduction  " - Brucato
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Jul 26, 2023 23:54
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Dawgstar posted:"Which is why the new dots of Seduction I'm pretty sure I got at least one comment in about him being a perv and yelling at him for being an obnoxious new age nerdlinger in the Book of Chantries review I'm working on currently. I'm not explicitly trying to dunk on the dude, but I'll take my shots where I can. Also he gets dunked on 3 times in the "Special Thanks" section of the book which is 
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Jul 27, 2023 00:22
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Save us from nerds who think their horrible fetishes give them magical powers. At least the wizard meme guys were self depreciating. Sorta.
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Jul 27, 2023 01:07
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Berkshire Hunts posted:Loomer, your Scottish Presbyterian Euthanatos sect is cool as hell. Does their spellcasting just look like prayer or do they incorporate any of the less catholic folk magic practices from Scotland? It depends on how doctrinally rigid any given one is - some view all Crofter superstition as borderline blasphemy and wouldn't necessarily have been out of place in the Cabal of Pure Thought, but others are a little more flexible, echoing the way the Presbyterian movement tends to handle specific worship. The 'average' Dour Euthanatos is principally focused on prayer (invocations of the various curses and also Samson's trials being quite common) but alloys it in private and unguarded moments of personal weakness with varyingly sacred/profane/blasphemous trinkets - a painted pebble from a healing well, a wool luck charm spun by his sister who is a good and godly woman, a preserved caul, a piece of an idol if they're feeling a little Catholic - and from time to time, a dram or two of whisky, which not for nothing is called the water of life (specifically: its a good healing focus). They also like labyrinths, not because of the Black Spiral, but because of their utility as a means of meditation, so their chantries and houses often feature small fieldstone labyrinths nearby to pace in. The most complex part is their shared understanding of their relationship to salvation, which only God can give by inspiring the sinner to seek his love - basically, as blasphemous as it sounds to outsiders, they usually understand themselves to be charged by God and Christ to be the messenger of that opportunity unto the most severe sinner. Where it is rejected, to act as the strong right arm and go all Romans 12:19 - 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord' on said sinners. Basically - 'You massacred a hundred men, and God has sent half those men to beseech me for aid. Pray with me for salvation, or I'll cut your goddamn head off. I might still cut it off if God says to while we're praying, mind, but if you don't pray I will most certainly strike it from your shoulders.' Hence their somewhat ambiguous and fraught relationship with the two traditions they might fit in - the Euthanatos 'proper' take one look and go 'oh cool rabid christians you can go over there, we really don't have that much in common, you know, doctrinally' and the Chorus respond 'gently caress no we don't want that maniac he's waving a goddamn sickle about and he just beat a murderer to death with their own bible while shouting that the wages of sin are death, you take him'.
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Jul 27, 2023 01:38
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LatwPIAT posted:I'm not surprised, but I think the actual problem is more that Goat Man writes without ever stopping to wonder if anyone else knows what he's talking about. What the various ratings of M20's Research skill do are mapped to fairly detailed knowledge of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and another expects you to have watched Big Trouble In Little China. Just straight-up not explaining what Art of Desire is or does is very much a Brucato thing. "Gutter magick" has the same problem. To be honest, I rather suspect that Brucato's real knowledge of the Art of Desire is rather limited and he might just have meant it in his usual, uh, deeply concerning sense. Its not really a Verbena-esque affair, which is the tell. You're dead on about his tendency to assume too much familiarity with things. I think its him attempting and failing to be gnomic, because everyone knows that the more gnomic your game design, the better it is.
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Jul 27, 2023 01:42
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Dawgstar posted:Anyway, on this august anniversary, treat yourself to the Time of Judgement news ticker: http://web.archive.org/web/20060614004934/http://www.timeofjudgment.com/newsticker.html Gonna run down (up) this ticker from the start (bottom) and pick out ones that could be fun hooks divorced from context (or newly imbued with entirely different context) in a Chronicles game, in the spirit of "rumors in the style of Unknown Armies" quote:Boston Mom Says Daughter ‘Taken by Angel’ quote:Crescent Birthmarks Common in LA, Doctors Say quote:Boston Area Firm Paying Dividends to Dead Men quote:Fatal Wounds Spell Out Ancient Text
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Jul 27, 2023 01:47
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Yeah teens never do any of that stuff. It's less that and more a skeezy old whizzard hippie shouldn't be writing about that poo poo. Especially when he's very publicly put his fetishes out there.
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Jul 27, 2023 01:52
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