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Synesthesian Fetish posted:The Moira turn to villain feels like something that was decided after Hickman but from what I've gathered was part of his plan What exactly was her motivation, anyway? That whole story was a blur in my brain. She spent just short of ten lifetimes trying to avoid a bad end, and now just because Chuck and Magneto were like "Can we talk about this Mystique stuff?" she wants to kill all mutants? Or is it that she wants to kill all mutants just to spite Chuck? Seems kind of like a waste of several lifetimes! Sentinel Red posted:I know we're all supposed to be decent and magnanimous and take the high road yadda yadda but I really have zero objections if this all warps up with the X-Men going full Magneto and murdering the absolute gently caress out of all these motherfuckers and stringing up their bloody, smouldering corpses from every lamppost in the world as a warning to any other fuckwits that get any ideas. I think that the balanced and fair solution would be to kill them all without stringing them up in the streets. Someone would have to clean those lamposts, y'know! That's not how you make friends for mutantkind
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Jul 27, 2023 11:10
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A lot of the Krakoa original sin decisions were goaded by Moria, so her ending up the big bad makes a ton of sense to me (although to be fair it probably didn't take a whole lot of convincing). Well as long as you don't think too hard about how weird the way Professor X and Magneto treated each other over like 60 years of X-Men would be if they were working on this the whole time. E: although I guess from the wiki summary they purged the knowledge of Moria from themselves several times.OnimaruXLR posted:What exactly was her motivation, anyway? That whole story was a blur in my brain. She spent just short of ten lifetimes trying to avoid a bad end, and now just because Chuck and Magneto were like "Can we talk about this Mystique stuff?" she wants to kill all mutants? Or is it that she wants to kill all mutants just to spite Chuck? Seems kind of like a waste of several lifetimes! The motivation is definitely a bit weird, that much I agree with, when you think of all the trouble she went to in life 9 to try to gain the tools to defeat Nimrod. I guess one thing she hasn't tried is working for Nimrod though maybe she's checking that out for a life just to be sure. Rick fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Jul 27, 2023 |
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Jul 27, 2023 11:19
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OnimaruXLR posted:What exactly was her motivation, anyway? That whole story was a blur in my brain. She spent just short of ten lifetimes trying to avoid a bad end, and now just because Chuck and Magneto were like "Can we talk about this Mystique stuff?" she wants to kill all mutants? Or is it that she wants to kill all mutants just to spite Chuck? Seems kind of like a waste of several lifetimes!+ Her ultimate long-term end goal in Life X is humanity merging with the Phalanx so that she can live forever as a part of a machine mind. Charles and Magneto learned in Inferno that part of her plan towards that goal was ending mutants by turning off (?) the X-gene at birth, as mutants will inevitably displace humanity and ultimately fight, and lose, against the Phalanx instead of being absorbed by them. After being exposed I think she's given up on the kind genocide and just wants mutants off the board so humanity can grow to the point where it's a tasty treat for the Phalanx. Also, she's known Chuck for a total of like 250 years, can you blame her for wanting to kill him Rick posted:Well as long as you don't think too hard about how weird the way Professor X and Magneto treated each other over like 60 years of X-Men would be if they were working on this the whole time. E: although I guess from the wiki summary they purged the knowledge of Moria from themselves several times. IIRC from the art in HoXPoX it's implied that Moira first gets Professor X and Magneto together between the Silver Age and the Claremont run, and that's the reason why Magneto becomes more of a nuanced character. He does lose his poo poo from time to time, but interestingly enough one of the reasons he loses it in the '92 relaunch is that he suspects Moira tampered with his mind when she made him not a baby anymore...
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Jul 27, 2023 13:26
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And almost immediately after that, he starts trying to recruit everyone to join him in space and talking about creating a haven for all mutants. With the Moira retcon, it does work fairly well that he stopped trusting Moira and Xavier, but still thought the broad strokes of her plan were a good idea and so decided "Screw it, I'll make my own Krakoa!"
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Jul 27, 2023 14:18
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Finally got to read the Gala book and it's... pretty awful. Not only the events themselves, but the execution. Comedy relief on this dark a story? Rasputin IV and bloody Nimrod as the comedy relief? Extremely cheerful covers for the upcoming Ms Marvel spinning directly after these events??
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Jul 27, 2023 14:28
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This version of Nimrod has been comedy relief pretty much as long as they've been around tbf
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Jul 27, 2023 14:35
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we really should change the thread title to 'Therapy didnt help'
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Jul 27, 2023 14:41
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Endless Mike posted:This version of Nimrod has been comedy relief pretty much as long as they've been around tbf Nimrod has always been that way.
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Jul 27, 2023 15:26
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danbanana posted:Nimrod has always been that way. Nah, he had more personality than your typical Sentinel but he had a kind of gravitas to him, whereas he's much more OHO I AM SUCH A CARD LOL type in the Krakoa era.
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Jul 27, 2023 16:09
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Almost the first we see of Nimrod in HoXPoX he's hunched over in excitement like he's just learned he's getting an N64 for his birthday. It's a recent characterization, but I do like they didn't just go the most obvious route of having the robot character act all cold and unemotional.
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Jul 27, 2023 16:35
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I think Nimrod works well as comedy relief in scenes like that but not when he's actively killing people. I guess it is kinda juvenile to go "well that kind of humor's funny when it's Deadpool cracking jokes while disemboweling bad guys but when it happens to characters I like it's not funny anymore", but... eh, gently caress it, I'm juvenile.
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Jul 27, 2023 18:31
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I don't really like comedy Nimrod because I feel he should be scary since he's an alternate-future robot so bad the X-men tried to ensure he was never born, and have some pathos since he had that dead husband's soul in him
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Jul 27, 2023 19:35
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Alaois posted:i liked the juxtaposition of this week's Wolverine ending with Wolverine telling Sage "I'm done with Krakoa poo poo, peace" and then him showing up at the end of Hellfire Gala, I like to assume he swam away from Krakoa, realized he forgot something, swam back and thought "i'm gone for 15 minutes and WHAT happens?" He did not look to be in Krakoa just near a gate.
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Jul 27, 2023 20:00
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:The Moira turn to villain feels like something that was decided after Hickman but from what I've gathered was part of his plan per post-Inferno interviews with Marvel editorial (don't have the link I'm thinking of handy), neither is the case. It was decided by Hickman before he left, but was very much not the original plan circa HoX/PoX and the period thereafter when Al Ewing was supposed to write a Moira book. and whatever the thinking behind that change in plans, I still think it sucks and hope it somehow gets reverted eventually, I don't understand how anyone can argue that the Moira in books like Hellfire Gala 2023 isn't significantly less interesting than the one from HoX/PoX. there was also a ton of story potential in fleshing out her past lives which has been completely ignored since she became a full-on villain Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 27, 2023 |
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Jul 27, 2023 20:00
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Synthbuttrange posted:Doug really should have let Mystique waste her Well she only became a problem cause Mystique tried to kill her.
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Jul 27, 2023 20:01
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Does robot Nimrod have the personality of the Orchis guy who’s brain is in there?
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Jul 27, 2023 20:03
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his brain isn't in there, is the thing. nimrod was intended to be a new incarnation for the dead husband, but then mystique mucked it all up at the last minute. nimrod is simply nimrod.
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Jul 27, 2023 20:06
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Barry Convex posted:I don't understand how anyone can argue that the Moira in books like Hellfire Gala 2023 isn't significantly less interesting than the one from HoX/PoX Yes. The Moira Retcon was perfect and created a character on par with Chuck, Mags, and A as a primary character in mutant history. She represented all 3 of those sides at once, and had so much potential to be a character who influenced mutantdom for years. But immediately they shut her away, which was the start of the problem.
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Jul 27, 2023 22:05
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:his brain isn't in there, is the thing. nimrod was intended to be a new incarnation for the dead husband, but then mystique mucked it all up at the last minute. nimrod is simply nimrod. Ah. That slipped my mind.
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Jul 27, 2023 22:14
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If anyone cares Cerebrocast did a bonus podcast with Gerry Duggan talking about the Hellfire Event. It's free to the public.
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Jul 27, 2023 22:18
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I think funny Nimrod is fun, but I didn’t love that new Sinister is kinda just another old Sinister, right after we’ve reached saturation point with old Sinister. Still, I’m excited for the RESIST era. I think the Firestar plot alone is more interesting than almost anything from the Krakoa stories of the past months, including SOS and AXE…and that’s not to denigrate on those stories, but this is just peak high superhero drama. (Note I said “Krakoa” and not “Arakko”…though the current arc there is…hm. Well, we’ll see how the current arc there goes)
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Jul 28, 2023 03:22
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Yeah, I liked a bit of the gala but most of it sucked. Maybe I'm completely wrong but the whole thing felt like it's gonna be reverted almost immediately, which renders it fairly pointless; and if it isn't, then they've gone from a status quo I really liked to yet another the world really fuckin hates mutants and also mutantkind is nearly extinct dark and gloomy status quo. Which I haven't hated in the past but seems so well-tread now. I also like funny Nimrod as a recharacterization almost as much as I like catty bitch Sinister. The way I see it, every time we've seen him before has involved time travel and he's potentially thousands of years old, or there's a bunch of him and they're the equivalent of Doombots. This is the original Nimrod at the beginning of his life, when he still has a personality. And I fully agree that villain-Moira sucks rear end. They took an absolute gem of potential then pooped on it and stomped it down the shower drain. At this point I'd be perfectly happy for them to pull some "oh my god I got switched with an evil alternate universe version of myself and you never even noticed?!" poo poo with her.
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Jul 28, 2023 04:50
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Cyclops can't feel his legs. Watch him be the new Professor X for Talon and Synch's X-Men.
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Jul 28, 2023 04:55
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Open Marriage Night posted:Cyclops can't feel his legs. Watch him be the new Professor X for Talon and Synch's X-Men. better yet kamala's champions
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Jul 28, 2023 05:32
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I enjoyed it and am pumped to see the fallout of all this. Didn't care for a lot of the art though.
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Jul 28, 2023 06:14
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I don't buy for a second that all the mutants that went through the gate got killed, though there's loads of reasons Xavier wouldn't be able to sense them and him enduring a very dark night of the soul there with what he thinks he just did is a good comic moment. I think insta killing anyone going through a gate at that moment was definitely Orchis' plan, but someone stepped in to save them. Mother Righteous doing that and putting them all on the Krakoan Island she magic'd off (maybe in a pocket plane or mental plane somewhere) is the most likely outcome to me. It took some kind of awkward writing in my opinion for the Mutants to eat the big L here with the crazy amount of power lost of Mutants have (Xavier in particular just kind of standing around while poo poo went down bothered me), but it did make for a dynamic story. It also makes sense to me that of course nobody could beat all these mutants if they were organized and all together at the same spot, so Orchis just made their move when they all weren't at the same spot and when they weren't expecting an attack. I did really like that as soon as I saw the new X-men team reveal page I knew they were all about to get killed, and the issue really delivered on that front. All the stories on Krakoa have been the best X-men stuff I can recall reading (though there's LOTS of x-men comics I haven't read) and I'm sad to see it come crumbling down, but I'm eager to see how things go from here. I've enjoyed seeing Orchis and lots of other X-men villains in this era be over-the-top evil (I really dug those recent Sinister focused books for instance) and seeing lots of Wolverine skeletons just chilling there on the Orchis station is a memorable image to me. With that being said, I don't think I've ever wanted a villainous comic book organization to get completely crushed the way I want Orchis to be annihilated and all their evil schemes to be revealed, and I hope that's where the story is ultimately heading. I also wish Moira had been allowed to do more cool "good-guy" things, especially with how all the X books that kicked off Krakoa told a really interesting story for her, but I can see why they took the path they did. After that hot start she was just chilling out of sight 99% of the time so something had to change with her, and with how her powers worked there was no reason for Erik or Charles to ever let her out of a super safe bubble because if she ever died their whole reality would get unmade. I would've enjoyed seeing her philosophizing more with them, and for more mutants to be aware of her existence and given the chance to interact with her, but I don't think they did a bad job of having her be the catalyst that started Krakoa, then the paranoid rot in Krakoa that helped work against it, and finally a major instrument in its downfall. It'll be hilarious if the Five and the Cerebro backups are actually okay and they just start printing out all the heavy hitters we just saw get killed like Iceman and Jean. I'd be game for a quick speedrun or tie-in event that has the Mutants resolving the gun to humanity's head problem and then not holding back at all as they take Orchis down, then collectively leaving to chill on Arrako and holding a hell of a grudge against humanity for Orchis' actions. It also blows my mind that after so many books and miniseries and such they truly blew it all up in a single issue.
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Jul 28, 2023 06:45
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NowonSA posted:I don't buy for a second that all the mutants that went through the gate got killed, though there's loads of reasons Xavier wouldn't be able to sense them and him enduring a very dark night of the soul there with what he thinks he just did is a good comic moment. I think insta killing anyone going through a gate at that moment was definitely Orchis' plan, but someone stepped in to save them. Mother Righteous doing that and putting them all on the Krakoan Island she magic'd off (maybe in a pocket plane or mental plane somewhere) is the most likely outcome to me. This makes a decent amount of sense considering she uses gratitude like a power battery
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Jul 28, 2023 07:21
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Honestly now that the band-aid is off it's a good thing. "Mutant supremacy" was never going to last, but now they can at least build something a bit more stable than the old system. Which was failing before Orchis jumped in. There's no more "How is this going to end badly?". It ended badly, mission accomplished. Now they can shoot for something a bit more stable than "We are the new gods of humanity, rulers of the Sol system.". Because that might last.
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Jul 28, 2023 08:03
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some godawful space event is going to wipe out arrako eventually to demonstrate how dangerous the latest Space Bad Guy is. hopefully that's going to be a while yet.
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Jul 28, 2023 09:58
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Isn't that just Uranus? Like the fighty mutant planet got it's lunch eaten by one guy.
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Jul 28, 2023 10:05
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Mulva posted:Honestly now that the band-aid is off it's a good thing. "Mutant supremacy" was never going to last, but now they can at least build something a bit more stable than the old system. Which was failing before Orchis jumped in. There's no more "How is this going to end badly?". It ended badly, mission accomplished. Now they can shoot for something a bit more stable than "We are the new gods of humanity, rulers of the Sol system.". Because that might last. I really doubt this is going to result in anything as stable the way Krakoa lasted for a few years. I have the feeling the X-Men are going right back to constantly getting blown up every new line relaunch. Because having a stable functional society isn't exactly fertile ground for blockbuster action storytelling. That was part of the only reason people were okay with Krakoa in the first place; mutants as a collective had gotten their asses handed to them so many times no one could put forth a convincing argument for them NOT to create their own country and start throwing their weight around. They probably should've listened to the people told them not to give a full pardon to all the super criminals except Sabertooth, though.
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Jul 28, 2023 10:42
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Sic Uranos on Orchis Station for an hour. Go on Storm, DO IT. Wanna see that Nimrod gently caress get rekt.
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Jul 28, 2023 12:32
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We don’t even know where Storm is after the last issue of X-Men Red. I’m wondering what kept the rest of the cast from that book from attending the gala. And I’m just going to guess now that when Jean returns, she’s going to somehow do it through Firestar. Having Angelica manifest a giant firebird seems like it has to happen at some point.
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Jul 28, 2023 14:08
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What did everyone make of the two magic party crashers? Tease for Hickman's new series?
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Jul 28, 2023 14:22
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Hickman wrote that page.
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Jul 28, 2023 14:47
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Soonmot posted:What did everyone make of the two magic party crashers? Tease for Hickman's new series? It worried me because I'm not hot on Ultimate Invasion and the guy just sounds like Mother Righteous
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Jul 28, 2023 15:29
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Hickman wrote one-page G.O.D.S. inserts for a pile of books this month- Moon Knight and Doctor Strange both have one next week.
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Jul 28, 2023 15:31
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Open Marriage Night posted:We don’t even know where Storm is after the last issue of X-Men Red. I’m wondering what kept the rest of the cast from that book from attending the gala. I assume that Genesis crashing the council and starting the war prevented the Arakko mutants from showing.
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Jul 28, 2023 16:10
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I don't really get the confusion regarding Moira's motivation. She had her potential immortality taken from her by the very people she'd spent centuries trying to help (albeit, after concluding that the only way to help them was by giving them paradise and then eventually removing their ability to make more mutants). And that's ignoring what uploading her consciousness to a computer while in a state of vengefulness and desperation did to her psyche. That said, I agree her new role as villain is far less interesting than her previous status as the secret fourth shaper of mutant destiny. Regarding the Gala issue, I think whether I end up loving or hating it is going to depend on the quality of the upcoming stories and the presumed triumphant return. This is the first time Orchis has really gone all in on a plan as opposed to simply simmering as s background threat that Krakoa only occasionally clashed with. If the mutant metaphor is a broadly generalized 'persecuted people', then their antithesis are the persecutors, whose hate is invariably ugly and cruel. With that in mind, their depiction this issue is appropriate, and their success appropriately tragic. I also like that they weaponized Xavier's love of humanity, forcing him to compromise for the "greater good" in the exact way the dying Magneto predicted he would. That said, it will all ring hollow if Orchis' inevitable defeat isn't satisfactory, and if Charles doesn't learn something from all of this. His dream has been a central aspect of the X-Men from the beginning, and it would be very disappointing if that returns to form after it's faults have been laid so bare. It's also more clear than ever that Ms. Marvel's death and rebirth as a mutant was a broader company mandate to make her match her MCU counterpart. I don't mind the explanation for how she's a mutant, but the timing of bringing her to the X-line couldn't be more off, to say nothing of how terribly her death was executed and exploited. I'll likely give her mini-series a chance, but mostly because I like Imam Vellani and hope her writing debut goes well.
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Jul 28, 2023 18:00
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I feel like my initial reaction to Dawn of X, where I was like, "OK this is all leading to a new Onslaught event, just like how Hickman's Avengers stuff all lead to a new Secret Wars" might finally pay off. Xavier, in despair at what he thinks he's done, breaks under the strain and goes full supervillain again EDIT: I will admit, I was thrown off when they had an actual Onslaught story with Legion of X, but THIS TIME it's for real
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Jul 28, 2023 19:24
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