(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
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What issues are you talking about here? I feel like poe reached a point where a lot of stuff is so locked in, like the zoomy playstyle, that its just beyond fixing if they want to end up with a more methodical visually less polluted version of the game. I completely understand why starting over with a clean slate is so much easier. Its not a perfect solution but I feel that if they want to take poe in the direction of poe 2 a lot of the playerbase is not going to be satisfied. The core dev pool wanted to make a successor to d2 from the get go and somewhere along the road they got railroaded into a cocaine cookie clicker. Some stuff would be nice like the new gem system, new animations and the likes. While it’s a monumental task, we might still see some stuff bleed over. Like the monster and boss assets they talked about on the panels. I’m also sore about the fact that we will have this inelegant solution of a split playerbase and split dev pool. But it feels like they are trying to right their past mistakes while pissing off the least amount of players as possible.
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Jul 29, 2023 11:39
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Mikojan posted:What issues are you talking about here? Just as an example, because these are things that I remember vividly from a Chris Wilson Q & A: When asked about the sorry state of melee in PoE1, Chris's answer was to essentially fumble around for a bit and then say "Hey look, we're working on some really cool stuff for PoE2 melee guys!" When asked about people being bored with the PoE1 campaign, Chris's answer proceeded through 1) Wondering why playing through the campaign over and over wasn't good enough for people anymore when it was good enough for Diablo II. 2) Refuse to even defend the early parts of PoE's campaign because GGG had no idea how to make good content back then (his words). 3) PoE2's campaign will be fresh and exciting and they're trying to make the act structure more dynamic! It's hard to not notice when GGG goes on stage and essentially highlights PoE1's problems while framing the introduction of a new feature like the dual weapon spec stuff they showed off last night. At last exilecon I would say the big example is when they showed off the changes to gems and links. I hope that there is low-hanging fruit that they can pluck from PoE2 and graft into PoE1, but I have no idea how technically feasible that is, or how obstinate they are going to be about it, especially if PoE1 is meant to be some kind of insurance policy to insulate them from the possibility of PoE2 not taking off. Scoss fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 11:56
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Some good points. I guess it is kind of grating listening them list of problems with poe 1 and then only apply the solution to a totally seperate instance of the game. Even though not all of those solutions would satisfy the poe playerbase. The skip campaign issue would make a lot more sense now, since their previous solution of just designing a better campaign kind of falls flat with this whole situation. I could see them implementing a campaign skip in poe for whenever poe 2 launches. As for melee, I'm a tect slam enjoyer almost every league launch and enjoy how it feels. But a lof of melee issues tie in with the animation system and pacing of the game, which at this point will likely not be adressed. Which sucks. As for now though we know next to nothing about the poe 2 endgame and how it will play out. They still mention they want to see some crazyness and the game will def speed up near the latter part. I guess in a perfect world, everyone likes poe 2 enough to have poe die off and they can invest all their time in the future of 2.
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Jul 29, 2023 12:26
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No one will care about any of this stuff if poe2 is fun to play at launch. Gamers memories get really short when they’re having a good time.
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Jul 29, 2023 12:28
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in one of his sessions, Jonathan said that he is game director for poe2 and Chris is game director for poe1 and they're completely separate and he has no clue what's going on with PoE1 these days so I wonder if we are gonna see some radical divergences in the future. the obvious route is 1 becoming more and more Ruthless with time
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Jul 29, 2023 12:39
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Yeah, the more I think about it, the more likely it is that the announcement was mostly just a hedge and to convince people to keep playing POE1 because it's ostensibly going to be more supported from now, or whatever. It's at least a year just til closed beta, probably a good 1.5 years til release in 2025 if that doesn't slip at all. Then say they support POE1 for another year while they wait for people to try POE2 and hope that they like it. By that point if POE2 is particularly successful they could probably start sunsetting POE1. Of course, they are also just as likely to let one or the other version limp along with minimal support (much like how POE1 has kind of been if the 8 dev thing is to be believed) just so they can double dip on the revenues where possible. I do feel like a lot of things in POE1 have sort of floundered because POE2 was supposed to fix them. My biggest complaint with the game is having to keep redoing the campaign and I know I'm not alone. Well, Chris seemed adamant that the campaign stays, and people were kind of leery that a new campaign would solve any of that in POE2, but you were supposed to be able to choose which of those to play and according to them the POE2 campaign was supposed to be enticing to play for whatever reason. (I personally feel like this is kind of like D4 wanting you to redo renown, which they've already walked back a bit and are probably going to walk back further or make it a lot easier because having to redo story content kinda sucks, in my opinion.) Well, now POE2 is not a solution to POE1's campaign woes. Ideally that's something I would hope to see they revisit, so I guess I would need to trust they're actually interested in doing dev work for POE1 again and it not being sort of more maintenance mode until POE2 comes out. I know I was hoping that since we could play the POE2 campaign there would also be a new non-lab way of getting our ascendencies. Well, now that's independent for the two games as well. Melee and animations they have specifically said yesterday that character animations will most likely not be changed in POE1. I think people were hoping for some kind of potential smart loot or something, which I think was one of those "well they'll fix it for POE2" which clearly isn't happening now. Once again it'll depend on if they actually now revisit things that have been chafing people for a bit now that they can't hide behind POE2 fixing everything.
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Jul 29, 2023 12:43
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I'm glad POE1 and POE2 are separate things. I like the look of POE2 I've seen so far, but there's no denying some aspects of it are radically different to POE1. If they were the same game, then POE1 would die, like original overwatch died when blizzard forced overwatch "2" on people. Now people that like POE1 can keep playing it if the design decisions of POE2 aren't to their taste.
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Jul 29, 2023 12:54
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I am at least glad to know that the reason the past league mechanics have been lackluster have been because they only had 8 people working on them. Hopefully with more hands on deck the leagues between now and poe2 will be more engaging. Even if the trial of the ancestors turns out to be a stinker, sanctums that you can run with defensive characters sounds fun.
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Jul 29, 2023 12:55
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Was there a point where they went over what the guardian changes are? Didn't have a ton of time to watch yesterday
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Jul 29, 2023 13:01
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They mostly said "look at the picture on the site later"
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Jul 29, 2023 13:06
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Very weird Guardian, thank you Chris.
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Jul 29, 2023 13:23
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Ah apparently the new chieftain is garbage 
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Jul 29, 2023 13:34
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NachtSieger posted:Hey all. After doing nothing but following guides, I've decided that I want to try making my own build for once. Since I really like chain lightning effects, I decided to make an Elementalist that uses Arc (and secondly, Storm Brand). Could anyone with more knowledge than I do with PoE builds help me with this thing? I'm pretty sure this build could be leagues better, for instance, I only have 99% extra life. Right, a few problems: 1. Arc and Storm Brand don't work well together - Storm Brand is a brand skill and absolutely needs the dedicated brand clusters and Runebinder to actually be worth a drat, all things that don't affect Arc at all. It also stops you from using Arcanist Brand as an easy way to apply your debuffs. 2. Archmage and mana builds in general aren't in the best spot. They do work though, so if that's what you wanna do, go ahead. Going Archmage means going all-in on mana though. None of that silly 56% increased mana, we're talking 250%+. Pick up Mind over Matter to augment your defenses, throw away Immortal Call and get Arcane Cloak + Arcane Surge. Throw away Added Lightning Damage Support - Archmage adds massive amounts of flat lightning damage to your spells (and so do Arcane Cloak and Sigil of Power), thats the whole deal, so putting Added Lightning Damage on top of it does almost nothing. 3. Your pathing in general could use some real help. No jewel in this life or the next is worth 5 passive points to pick it up. Iron Will is really good, but its not worth 6 passives either - The least you could do is pick up Constitution right next to it, especially when you already know that 99% life is a big problem. 4. Armour is really good, but only if you can actually get some. You don't have access to Determination unless you drop Wrath and you're at best limited to Armour/ES hybrid items since you need mana rolls everywhere so Sanctum of Thought and Faith and Steel are questionable. Mana/Life/Armour all roll on prefixes as well, so one of them has to give. 5. Cannibalistic Right + Mastery looks good at first glance, but its actually anti-synergistic with Archmage. Since 30% of your mana cost is now life, it means that your Archmage has 30% less effect. In general you want to aim to get your mana cost as high as possible to make the most out of Archmage. 6. Lightning Warp is bad, but switching to Flame Dash is trivial, so give it a try yourself. 7. Crackling Speed and Mental Rapidity give you loads of cast speed, which is really good for a normal caster build. With Archmage you have to be careful that your mana spent doesn't massively outpace your mana regeneration, so cast speed is not a very good stat until you get really high mana regen. 8. Immortal Call is good, but Arcane Cloak is a guard skill and non-negotiable for mana builds, so it has to go. I put this together as a quick and dirty Archmage tree: https://pastebin.com/rtt0vPvQ. You don't have to look at it, if you wanna make your own build, but its there if you don't know where to go. Wuxi fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 13:40
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Chaos Orbs now remove a random affix then add a random affix Huh
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Jul 29, 2023 13:42
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Conversion now only scales by the final damage type, and does not remember converted damage types. (e.g. 100% Physical to Cold no longer scales with Physical Omg that seems terrible
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Jul 29, 2023 13:43
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New chieftain has Valako, which is insane, and everything else, which is garbage. So everyone is just gonna play Jugg with the Valako jewels and call it a day
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Jul 29, 2023 13:46
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Ramako might be good if all the other - resistance sources work. That is -50 resist on bosses for fire dots. Maybe ?
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Jul 29, 2023 13:49
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Earth breaker CP chieftain is dead
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Jul 29, 2023 13:51
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Chieftain looks terrible, wow. Seems like it lost a ton of defense. Also endurance charges.
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Jul 29, 2023 14:27
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4 ascendency points to get a lvl 30 ancestral call Holy moly
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Jul 29, 2023 14:42
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It boggles the mind that the ascendancy with thr strongest defenses against physical damage is going to have 0 ways to mitigate damage after the rework. Seriously, what?
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Jul 29, 2023 14:44
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The tiny team left working on PoE1 definitely showed over the last few leagues. With a year and a half to go until PoE2, GGG will need to shift resources towards PoE1 because D4 won't stay poo poo forever. D4 devs are spineless and have no vision, and will just give the community whatever they want, for better or worse, so if GGG think they can limp on until 2025 destroying, I mean reworking, 2 ascendancies per league, making balance changes that clearly were done without much/any play testing, they are going to have a bad time. I feel like this was the wrong time to have Exilecon. We are a year out from the PoE2 beta, there was no new endgame expansion for PoE1 - they should have just done the usual league announcement stream and held off on Exilecon until they actually had something big that was imminent. Is PoE1 essentially finished with the Exarch/Eater being the last end game bosses? The closer we get to the release of PoE2, the less likely it would be that we are going to get new endgame content. All in all a very weird move all round from GGG. Are Larian the only decently sized studio that doesn't seem intent on face planting repeatedly?
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Jul 29, 2023 14:45
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You know you people can just admit that you're bad at the game and couldn't finish a sanctum instead of trying to pretend Sanctum wasn't the best PoE has ever been. Skeleton crew my arse
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Jul 29, 2023 14:52
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InventorOfTrees posted:poe 2 years until release
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Jul 29, 2023 14:55
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I'm gonna need to see what the guardian stuff actually looks like, bc I've got the name BuddyComedy ready for a one minion build..
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Jul 29, 2023 14:55
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External Organs posted:I'm gonna need to see what the guardian stuff actually looks like, bc I've got the name BuddyComedy ready for a one minion build.. I am pretty curious how the minion nodes work out on it, though I have a sinking suspicion it's going to be a "we increased the damage of this skill by 750%" next league.
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Jul 29, 2023 14:58
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TyrantWD posted:The tiny team left working on PoE1 definitely showed over the last few leagues. With a year and a half to go until PoE2, GGG will need to shift resources towards PoE1 because D4 won't stay poo poo forever. D4 devs are spineless and have no vision, and will just give the community whatever they want, for better or worse, so if GGG think they can limp on until 2025 destroying, I mean reworking, 2 ascendancies per league, making balance changes that clearly were done without much/any play testing, they are going to have a bad time. I think it's weird to make the entire con for your live service game about a game that doesn't come out for 1.5 years. That's a really long time, surely they could have teased the league after Ancestral as well or something, even mentioning that some kind of new end game bossing league was coming would go a long way to make people feel better. Also I feel like devs don't seem to get that as a player it feels really bad to know everything you're doing to support a game is going to a totally different game you might not even want to play. I'm not saying PoE1 is dead or on life support, just agree that the presentation is not what I wanted. Also the only source for "Only 8 people working on PoE1 for years" has already recanted: https://twitter.com/balormage/status/1685228159304941568
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Jul 29, 2023 14:58
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The dev number is really weird because for crucible I am like yah clearly has nobody working on it. But for sanctum, like only 20 people? Super impressive.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:05
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It is strange that people are upset about two different games. I've never seen that criticism before in any other franchise.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:12
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NachtSieger posted:Hey all. After doing nothing but following guides, I've decided that I want to try making my own build for once This is a good idea and where a lot of the fun in the game is at, but it's an uphill fight at first going from guides to fully self-directed. Asking for advice in here is one way to bridge the gap, and another good middle ground for learning some of this stuff is to take an existing build either from a guide or poe.ninja and then modify it to work in different skills or gear. SSF is a good place to look for builds that probably won't have absurdly high budget reqs. For what you're trying to do https://poe.ninja/builds/challengessf/?skills=Arc is high level builds running arc in ssf and https://poe.ninja/builds/challengessf/character/CookieWasBlue/ShARCinTheDark is one of the first arc elementalists on the list. At a glance they're pathing a lot of the same places that you are and solving a lot of the same problems although obviously not going archmage. A few easy pickups from looking at this build compared to your first draft: - you're better off using galvanic field than storm brand if your main is going to be arc. It's a lot like storm brand but triggers when you shock, which makes it a lot smoother to combo together. You lose the ability to manually spread it around but arc already has good coverage. - notice that they're using hypothermia with arc, which means they're chilling and then you see they're using shaper of winter instead of shaper of storms. That's because a dedicated lightning build should already be shocking everything. The extra scaling can help you on really big single targets but you should try to get there without it and reliable chill is a good defensive element - foregoing archmage lets you focus your gear better on life and armor. Their 20k flasked is not great but it's something. You can also see they're pulling off enough damage (at least for their tastes, there's no knowing for sure until you try it) to want to run determination along with wrath instead of zealotry or herald of thunder. 10-20% more damage is something but it's not a gamechanger. Enough armor to avoid dying every time something taps you is probably more important. Without the mana constraints of archmage you can do both. - almost every piece of gear has mods on it worth thinking about. Two big ones that stand out are the exposure on hit implicit on the gloves,and the conductivity on hit mod on the ring. There's huge mechanical value in getting stuff like that sorted on gear vs manual casting. Then there's stuff you might not want to adapt, like the huge resistance reduction from annihilating light, so you might try to remove it and find a way to deal comparable damage with a 1h/shield combo. That's almost definitely impossible, but it'd be a learning experience to see how big of a deal triple damage is, how much resistance pressure the 60% less mod adds, what you can manage with an alternative, etc. search engine fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 15:12
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Cervix-A-Lot posted:It is strange that people are upset about two different games. I've never seen that criticism before in any other franchise. I think people wouldn't like it if blizzard was like "Actually the next expansion of WoW is WoW 2, but we'll continue to develop WoW also, 3 new quests and a new vault boss coming in the next major patch for WoW, now let's look at WoW 2 coming in 2025..."
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Jul 29, 2023 15:15
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M. Night Skymall posted:I think people wouldn't like it if blizzard was like "Actually the next expansion of WoW is WoW 2, but we'll continue to develop WoW also, 3 new quests and a new vault boss coming in the next major patch for WoW, now let's look at WoW 2 coming in 2025..." But poe2 isn't an expansion, it's an entirely new game. Like diablo 1,2,3,4, or any other numerous games. Are you upset that they will support two games like WoW Classic and WoW retail? Or like Diablo 2 R or Diablo 4?
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Jul 29, 2023 15:26
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People will bitch about any stupid thing when it comes to video games and it means nothing. There's a clear rationale for splitting the games up. Even though the parallel development model is kinda weird, they've obviously already been doing it for a while. Of course It'd be more concerning coming from a soulless pile of poo poo like Blizzard because why would you trust them to do anything right at this point, but GGG's entire history has consisted of mostly smart decisions all driven by people who clearly care about what they're doing.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:28
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Cervix-A-Lot posted:But poe2 isn't an expansion, it's an entirely new game. Like diablo 1,2,3,4, or any other numerous games. We know that poe1 has objectively suffered in terms of dev resources over the last year and change from working on poe2, so it's natural to be skeptical that they can find the right balance post release. Maybe they'll stick the landing and both games will be strongly supported for years to come, but they do have something to prove in the next year while they're supposedly adding resources back to poe1.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:29
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:We know that poe1 has objectively suffered in terms of dev resources over the last year and change from working on poe2, so it's natural to be skeptical that they can find the right balance post release. Maybe they'll stick the landing and both games will be strongly supported for years to come, but they do have something to prove in the next year while they're supposedly adding resources back to poe1. You all have to understand Poe 1 won't last forever. You'll have to move on eventually.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:31
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I dont know what to think about Poe2 now so im just gonna try to forget about it for a year
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Jul 29, 2023 15:31
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Cervix-A-Lot posted:But poe2 isn't an expansion, it's an entirely new game. Like diablo 1,2,3,4, or any other numerous games. Your examples aren't live service games in any real sense. I think a lot of players want to feel that the game they're pouring their time and money into is also the game the developers are pouring their time and money into. I'm not particularly upset about what's happening, just not sure how people are confused that not everyone is like "Oh rad all these supporter packs are actually supporting a totally different game." PoE1 still a great game, and PoE2 looks like it'll be a great game so it's whatever. I'd just have preferred more information on the game I can play and less on the game that comes out in 1.5 years. Making every panel about PoE2 built up this hype that it was actually coming soon, when it isn't.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:33
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Cervix-A-Lot posted:You all have to understand Poe 1 won't last forever. You'll have to move on eventually. They were the ones telling us it was going to be one game for years, with a bunch of convincing reasons why it shouldn't be two games lol
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Jul 29, 2023 15:33
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MMF Freeway posted:They were the ones telling us it was going to be one game for years, with a bunch of convincing reasons why it shouldn't be two games lol I guess you've never met anyone who has changed their minds about things? Things change, get over it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 29, 2023 15:34
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I just hope we don't get more changes like these guardian and chieftain ones over the next year and a half+ because wow, dunno what devs are working on Poe 1 but that ain't it
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Jul 29, 2023 15:34
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