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SerthVarnee posted:This is...fine...right? That's not good by any stretch of the imagination but it doesn't seem to extend into the hull proper so... I guess maybe kinda?
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Jul 29, 2023 08:45
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SerthVarnee posted:This is...fine...right? Somebody's never looked at the superstructure of a Tico lol
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Jul 29, 2023 09:21
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orange juche posted:Somebody's never looked at the superstructure of a Tico lol Didn't a rudder fall off a Tico once or was that an OHP? e: it was a Perry and it happened more than once Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 09:27
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Does anyone have some good tips/knowledge about resolving PCS travel claims? I've currently got a sailor who's getting screwed to the tune of ~$6000 over the course of a very i-stop heavy PCS process that I would love to help with but I don't have a lot of experience un-loving PCS stuff. One issue seems to be that at some point, they re-calculated her reimbursement to use GMR and a lower lodging rate versus the CMR and lodging rate that she was actually charged/authorized for several weeks. Our local admin support kind of sucks and I know that PCS stuff doesn't ultimately go through them anyway, so any pointers on who to call and yell at would be appreciated. I would check the JTR to see why they’re doing it. I don’t know what their orders say but if they were in government lodging and had a galley available for all meals then they may be stuck. If they couldn’t get 3 meals a day there they can probably submit a memo saying which meals and why to get a proportional rate at least.
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Jul 29, 2023 11:46
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Does anyone have some good tips/knowledge about resolving PCS travel claims? I've currently got a sailor who's getting screwed to the tune of ~$6000 over the course of a very i-stop heavy PCS process that I would love to help with but I don't have a lot of experience un-loving PCS stuff. One issue seems to be that at some point, they re-calculated her reimbursement to use GMR and a lower lodging rate versus the CMR and lodging rate that she was actually charged/authorized for several weeks. Our local admin support kind of sucks and I know that PCS stuff doesn't ultimately go through them anyway, so any pointers on who to call and yell at would be appreciated. Who is “they” in this case? Amendments to orders are a nuisance, particularly if you’re trying to notify someone who is in the middle of travel. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is going to be to work through whomever the claim is being submitted through locally to go up and over the chain to whoever signed the amendment in the first place and find out why. I’ve been in this game long enough to stand back from things like this and go with my presumptions that it’s 50-50 odds on it being on the traveler or the AO, but I can’t tell you anything without seeing the authorization myself because “it depends”. The last shitshow like this I had to unfuck involved getting DFAS to disentangle a misapplied (as in the wrong account got paid somehow) GTCC payment for a retiring chief that — after some digging — didn’t actually have a card and also traveled without signed orders. It took months and the guy threatening congressionals the entire time, and even with a 1 star admiral breathing down our necks the whole time, it didn’t speed up DFAS whose point of “he wasn’t authorized to travel at the time” was correct, if missing the point entirely.
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Jul 29, 2023 12:18
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krispykremessuck posted:Who is “they” in this case? Amendments to orders are a nuisance, particularly if you’re trying to notify someone who is in the middle of travel. "They" in this case is... PERS, I guess? That's part of the problem, PCS travel funding doesn't go through your local admin chain, it's all done by some office in Millington. There's no DTS authorization or anything, it's all just derived from your PCS orders. And I wasn't clear explaining the recalculation thing; she got an full breakdown of all her charges and reimbursements once her travel was finished and she was working on her claim. It had the accurate per diem rates but was missing some major things like her rental car. As she was trying to get that corrected, they sent her an updated breakdown that retroactively had lower rates. This was for group travel as part of a det for the class she was doing, all the lodging was booked by the school and I imagine they have a CNA letter if we need to cite it. It makes me suspicious because I know DTS has an issue if you're making adjustments after the travel started where it will revert an approved CMR and full lodging rate to GMR and whatever the on-base lodging rate is. I wouldn't be surprised if the PERS system or whatever they use has a similar problem. I've never had to do a complex PCS like this with months-long i-stops so it's out of my area of expertise. If it were DTS it would be easy.
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Jul 29, 2023 14:00
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Wingnut Ninja posted:"They" in this case is... PERS, I guess? That's part of the problem, PCS travel funding doesn't go through your local admin chain, it's all done by some office in Millington. There's no DTS authorization or anything, it's all just derived from your PCS orders. Yeah, military PCS in USN is a complete dumpster fire. Unfucking any part of it is going to require you to reach to Millington which is what I was worried about. Odds of resolving it before someone pushes a collection action in DFAS aren’t great. I’m not one to push people to turbo, but given the state of things on both the mil and civilian personnel side of the house it may be worthwhile. So a claim was submitted to Millington and was returned with “and now you owe us $6,000, how would you like to pay?” Or an indebtedness letter? First tip would be to try to get a live body on the phone/Teams. I can’t emphasize this enough: if you’re active duty and trying to get in touch with some civilian shithead like me or one of my people, use Teams. Ideally you’ll want a civilian supervisor, if there is one. Authority to do anything at all in USN is so bound to supervisors that it’s incredible that anyone manages to get anything done. If it’s active duty people servicing those claims I’m going to recommend elevating through your command before a collection action is initiated so you don’t end up with a sailor getting a $0 paycheck.
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Jul 29, 2023 14:28
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I fuckin' love you goons.
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Jul 29, 2023 14:43
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krispykremessuck posted:So a claim was submitted to Millington and was returned with “and now you owe us $6,000, how would you like to pay?” Or an indebtedness letter? Right now she's got a ~12k balance on her GTCC and they're only saying they'll pay off ~6k. She's still working the process at her level, I'm just trying to frontload how I can escalate it
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Jul 29, 2023 15:07
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Right now she's got a ~12k balance on her GTCC and they're only saying they'll pay off ~6k. She's still working the process at her level, I'm just trying to frontload how I can escalate it I’d have to dive into the JTR to check if the rule remains the same with PCS, but with TDY orders once an AO approves a rate on an authorization/orders, they’re not allowed to reduce it during the claims side. An amendment during the execution is one thing, doing so via the voucher process is another. This should roughly be the same within the PCS since the overarching process doesn’t exactly differ, just entitlements and allowances. If they approved it on the orders and are going back on it during claims processing, an amendment to the orders would be required first. The sea-lawyering to do here is check the JTR for enabling language in the PCS side, but barring that lean on the first or second chapter of the JTR [I think] that sets out responsibilities and limitations of AOs. Travel lives in my department, but I’ve got the other division. I’ve worked these issues a lot, but I’m a few years out from directly doing it, but a practical demonstration of what I am talking about goes here: quote:Traveler (member/employee) is going to [location] and requests Actual Expense. I rubber stamp the orders and don’t catch it. Travel is executed, claim/voucher process begins. How you want to engage that is up to you. I’m ten years apart from active duty time and as such my respect for the chain of command is diminished, particularly if I have to start with some YN2/PS2 type at another location that’s going to blow me off because it’s 0805 on Friday and XO still hasn’t sent the early liberty email. Specifically recommend turboing because there’s a balance on the GTCC that, by policy, is probably already due. e: for the record, the navy “format” for PCS orders is one of the most obnoxious ways they could do that krispykremessuck fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 15:28
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GTCC is the biggest scam perpetrated on service members by the government
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Jul 29, 2023 15:42
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Nick Soapdish posted:GTCC is the biggest scam perpetrated on service members by the government Yeah things were better back when we had E-3s driving coast to coast in 2 days and sleeping in their car because they didn't have a card with a high enough credit limit to put a hotel on
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Jul 29, 2023 15:47
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The middle way of cash advancements or travelers checks was an okay-ish compromise, but yeah generally speaking the GTCC isn’t great for low grades because of how unfavorable the terms are, particularly when you factor in that an AO has 30 days to approve a voucher.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:59
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After all the horror stories I heard I never used one. gently caress the navy and gently caress a government travel card
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Jul 29, 2023 16:10
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Grip it and rip it posted:After all the horror stories I heard I never used one. gently caress the navy and gently caress a government travel card Same. When my last command forced me to have one, I returned it to them in the same envelope it was mailed to me when I checked out. I am not carrying that cursed thing around, lady
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Jul 29, 2023 16:19
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orange juche posted:Somebody's never looked at the superstructure of a Tico lol No kidding I never used my GTCC when I was active but I have one for fed gov work and it's always been fine.
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Jul 29, 2023 16:23
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US Berder Patrol posted:Same. When my last command forced me to have one, I returned it to them in the same envelope it was mailed to me when I checked out. I am not carrying that cursed thing around, lady I did the same thing with a brand new iPhone they wanted me to carry 24/7/365 as the cpoic. Told them I already had a phone I carried and they can use that number. No way was I carrying a thousand dollar second phone I'd be liable for if it was lost, broken or stolen for four years. It wasn't like a weekend duty phone or something. I turned it over still sealed in the box and by then a few gens older.
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Jul 29, 2023 16:47
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Nick Soapdish posted:GTCC is the biggest scam perpetrated on service members by the government GTCCs are a good solution to a real problem implement poorly because like all government contracts, it's basically a hand out to private industry and the focus isn't on efficiency for the government or the customer.
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Jul 29, 2023 17:20
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Making it a real loving credit card issued in the individual's name and tied to their credit is a loving terrible idea. Bill it to the government and pay it as an allotment from the voucher
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Jul 29, 2023 17:33
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I just appreciate that it's the only card available in the US that will work with chip-and-pin overseas.
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Jul 29, 2023 17:58
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My corporate Visa is all chip and pin, doesn't have NFC, so I think thats pretty standard for cards these days? Also my corporate visa has a $20k balance because they're about 2 months behind on processing travel reimbursements, as it takes like 3 weeks even to get them documented, and then another 2 weeks to get through audit. Its insane bullshit and costs way more money than if they just blindly paid whatever the supervisor approved. Either the GTCC learned from the worst, or was the model that everyone else immitated.
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Jul 29, 2023 18:08
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They're mandating the GTCC for. PCS now aren't they? Big gently caress That, especially for complex moves. I never had an issue using mine for travel, even when I traveled constantly with PMT, but using one for a PCS sounds loving miserable. E^^^ my corporate card has like a $4k limit, so I usually end up putting big charges on my personal card, a little annoying, but free points on my own card so hey.
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Jul 29, 2023 18:19
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“I couldn’t find my GTCC at that moment,” “It kept declining… weird, right?” “The at the counter was sketchy as hell, and I didn’t want him to clock me as a mil member for opsec reasons” Not like the GS-6 reviewing your voucher is going to care a bunch.
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Jul 29, 2023 19:01
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krispykremessuck posted:“I couldn’t find my GTCC at that moment,” They're getting a lot more hardassed about it recently. Official guidance is that if you card gets declined or whatever, you're supposed to call the Citibank help line. Yes, even if it's 4AM and you're trying to fill up your rental car before your flight home. Just sit there at the gas station on hold for the help line. If you use your personal card you're supposed to call the merchant and have them transfer the charge over to your GTCC. It makes me think that the people making this policy never actually have to use travel cards.
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Jul 29, 2023 19:11
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Wingnut Ninja posted:It makes me think that the people making this policy never actually have to use travel cards. I have no comforting response to this. The policy makers at the Ech II and up level that It’s also true of NMCI, all the various management software extended universe poo poo, and every other thing. I believe you that it’s getting pushed. It’s just that there’s not much in the way of enforcement action that can be taken outside of bogus Art. 134 poo poo that people could try to fabricate. Admittedly, that’s small comfort to a sailor facing down a DRB because LSC Bill N. Specter is going apeshit over a checked baggage fee or some dumb poo poo. If I caught one of our travel folks giving anyone grief over it, I’d put an end to that, is what I’m saying. That’s a waste of our time to ensure Citibank gets their cut. quote:Official guidance is that if you card gets declined or whatever, you're supposed to call the Citibank help line. Official as in “with an instruction number” or as in “the travel office keeps screeching about”? I know there’s a renewed push and that it’s now infecting PCS, too, I just haven’t seen a policy change. AOs have way more discretion in this kind of thing than you might think. krispykremessuck fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 19:25
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krispykremessuck posted:
Beautiful. Poetic, even. The leadership will never be allowed to give up the kayfabe on how dumb this is, they will have no choice but to sigh and shrug bc of the expectations on their end that you adhere to the opsec ritual
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Jul 29, 2023 19:54
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Wingnut Ninja posted:They're getting a lot more hardassed about it recently. Official guidance is that if you card gets declined or whatever, you're supposed to call the Citibank help line. Yes, even if it's 4AM and you're trying to fill up your rental car before your flight home. Just sit there at the gas station on hold for the help line. If you use your personal card you're supposed to call the merchant and have them transfer the charge over to your GTCC. Wtf? I fill up my rentals with my personal and then make an expense for it with a receipt on dts.
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Jul 29, 2023 20:12
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krispykremessuck posted:Official as in “with an instruction number” or as in “the travel office keeps screeching about”? I know there’s a renewed push and that it’s now infecting PCS, too, I just haven’t seen a policy change. AOs have way more discretion in this kind of thing than you might think. I want to say there was some kind of official message or guidance that came out recently that gave it a little more teeth than the usual "local AO is getting tetchy" but I'd have to go digging through my email. You're right though that the JTR itself hasn't changed and still has exceptions for personal card use if your GTCC doesn't work. I was the AO at my last squadron and as long as people put in a blurb saying they tried their card but it didn't work or something to that extent they were good to go. IDK, maybe it is just our wing AO deciding to be a hardass about it, it's such a loving silly system. PneumonicBook posted:Wtf? I fill up my rentals with my personal and then make an expense for it with a receipt on dts. You've got a very lenient AO if that's the case routinely, because you're supposed to at least try to use your travel card for that kind of stuff. That's the kind of thing that will get dinged on an audit if there aren't appropriate justifications attached.
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Jul 29, 2023 20:26
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Yeah, the gas one would catch attention here. As far was what drives it, sometimes an enterprising junior officer at a fleet command (or that level) with more free time than sense and a lack of appropriate supervision will develop a sense that something like this ought to be looked into. The next thing you know, you’re getting nasty e-mails from fleet asking why you’re not making everyone fill out the tax-exempt forms that may situationally apply to TDY travel but are wholly optional. This strikes me as one of those things, though a bit more likely that it originated in some hellish FIAR position or a KPMG audit finding. As far as I’m concerned the meals one is completely unenforceable if M&IE is authorized. That’s an entitlement, not reimbursement.
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Jul 29, 2023 20:54
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Wingnut Ninja posted:It makes me think that the people making this policy never actually have to use travel cards. GOFOs and SES do not make their own travel arrangements or handle payment personally, you're correct. One of the best things about being a contractor is not having to deal with DTS/GTC bullshit. Every company handles things differently, and some come close to the same level of bullshit, but some are as easy as can be. The major rules are all basically the same though.
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Jul 29, 2023 21:49
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I'm just over hear languishing in the sweet, sweet feeling of not having to deal with any of this stupid bullshit anymore. Travel clames at my current job are piss easy.
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Jul 29, 2023 23:05
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Wingnut Ninja posted:
The first time I traveled my gtcc got denied so I never used it again other than airline/hotel/rental. I've been throwing receipts around for 7 years and our travel people are supposedly super stringent but I guess everything's relative. If you work for PHD traveling is more of a pita based on what I've seen at the office. Maybe we're a bunch of loosey gooseys though.
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Jul 30, 2023 00:00
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Does anyone have some good tips/knowledge about resolving PCS travel claims? I've currently got a sailor who's getting screwed to the tune of ~$6000 over the course of a very i-stop heavy PCS process that I would love to help with but I don't have a lot of experience un-loving PCS stuff. One issue seems to be that at some point, they re-calculated her reimbursement to use GMR and a lower lodging rate versus the CMR and lodging rate that she was actually charged/authorized for several weeks. Our local admin support kind of sucks and I know that PCS stuff doesn't ultimately go through them anyway, so any pointers on who to call and yell at would be appreciated. Wonder Free posted:I would check the JTR to see why they’re doing it. I don’t know what their orders say but if they were in government lodging and had a galley available for all meals then they may be stuck. If they couldn’t get 3 meals a day there they can probably submit a memo saying which meals and why to get a proportional rate at least. Wingnut Ninja posted:"They" in this case is... PERS, I guess? That's part of the problem, PCS travel funding doesn't go through your local admin chain, it's all done by some office in Millington. There's no DTS authorization or anything, it's all just derived from your PCS orders.  I did a stint as an assistant AO for a year, so after six years creeping on this forum, I might finally have something useful to say!Alrighty, so first off, she'll want to triple-check her order and make sure there was nothing specifically spelled out in her orders to use the government logging and meals in relation to any I-Stops required to be taken as part of the travel, if there was and there is no corresponding CNA if no base lodging was used, she'll be SOL. Since this is a PCS with an I-STOP, the actual M&IE Per Diem rate might be weird depending on if she was on a det portion of the PCS versus the travel portion of the PCS. Like Wonder Free said, for the schooling portion of the orders, they might be out of luck. However, if a memo can be submitted to explain a lack of availability for getting three meals a day at the location they were at, due to duties or schooling, then they should be able to get at least a PMR. Per the JTR:   At the very least, for the daily travel of the PCS, per the JTR the service member won't be given GMR (unless orders direct it). For PCS travel the service member should be given the CONUS per-diem rate. For their istops, once they double-check their orders and cross reference any CNA's they have that should give a firmer footing to take the next steps.
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Jul 30, 2023 04:17
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Jimmy4400nav posted:
Holy poo poo. I would make fun of this if it weren't for the fact someone is getting 6k hosed
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Jul 30, 2023 05:47
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Well, you see we have a duty to keep taxpayer costs down, wouldn't want a Sailor getting some money they're not entitled to! *throws brand new LCS in woodchipper*
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Jul 30, 2023 09:19
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Elviscat posted:I'm just over hear languishing in the sweet, sweet feeling of not having to deal with any of this stupid bullshit anymore. Travel clames at my current job are piss easy. Same, took me 5 minutes to sort out my travel claim after a trip to Helsinki in May. No issues getting everything covered either.
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Jul 30, 2023 09:27
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If the company fucks up my business class tickets or trys to put me in a poo poo hotel I just go file a grievance with the union. I'm gonna get my loving money right after I put them on the hook for all my out of pocket travel costs.
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Jul 30, 2023 09:44
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This all reminds me of how sad I was when flat rate per diem died.
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Jul 30, 2023 11:45
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lightpole posted:Holy poo poo. I would make fun of this if it weren't for the fact someone is getting 6k hosed Oh this isn't even getting into the really weird edges of the JTR and travel policy, this is all still relatively straightforward stuff. Thanks for the responses, I get the impression that this isn't Pers trying to intentionally screw her out of the correct per diem, more likely some button pusher in Millington is doing a lazy job of it. While this is a complex PCS, it's also the standard training track for everyone coming to this command, so between the detailer and the schoolhouse they've got a pretty solid process for ensuring proper rates and CNA documentation and the like. The part about talking to a supervisor is good to know, I'll try to track down a customer service number or something.
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Jul 30, 2023 14:55
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I think I was out 600 bucks moving back to PA from Seattle and I consider myself lucky.
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