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Fight Forever is great but also distinctly a game no one makes anymore, a couch co-op party game, for good reason. They kind of forgot that the problem with making a game from 2002 is that no one consumes media the way they do in 2002. Everything the game does best is also the stuff no one cares about.
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Jul 27, 2023 04:12
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Basic Chunnel posted:I mean yeah the CAW suite is nonexistent, but FTR are still coming (ETA TBD) and as we post there are dozens of modders parsing out hex code so that YOU can use custom skin textures using just a few ZIP files and a python console. Watch this space. if I'm being honest I'd rather they throw funding towards Jagged Alliance 3 DLC expansions, it's the superior game and has actual mod support as opposed to just expecting 3 or 4 modders to do halfass hex hacks to substitute for CAWs. There are so many issues with Fight Forever beyond the CAW suite i.e. having to go thru Road To Elite so they have actual stats, pin breakups being awkward, matches being way too short, no cagematches, limited to 4 players, bad DLC roadmap. The Feedback thread in their discord is a mile long, idk where they would even start. The fact that it was sold as being another No Mercy when the CAW system and story mode are both leagues below No Mercy is shocking.
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Jul 27, 2023 05:37
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I still open it up for a quick round every now and then. My sessions are like 1-3 matches long. It's still fun. But I think we could all see from the start that it needed a lot of polish and they kinda don't communicate what will or won't be done.
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Jul 27, 2023 05:54
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From one perspective it makes sense, in that promising No Mercy revivalism (to the extent that was actually promised!) fit part and parcel into the “we are bringing back those aspects of wrestling you value but the WWE has forgotten willfully and for no good reason” pitch underpinning AEW as a whole from the very beginning. Certainly a lot of ppl seemed to be hyped abt FF because of the brand more than the game. Most of the distinction between what 2K games were and what FF was hoped to become fell along the lines of the 2K series not just lacking but pursuing priorities that had long departed from what ppl fundamentally wanted, not unlike Vince’s whole problem. Unfortunately it seems like they overestimated the degree to which excitement for new-ish approaches to gameplay would overwhelm any disappointment in the lack of bells and whistles. Or maybe, possibly, it’s that what was thought of as bells and whistles / “nice-to-haves” were more important to players than the devs realized. I’m really curious abt why the CAW suite turned out the way it did. Was it not given the priority it clearly required? Was it given priority but proved simply beyond any reasonable scope? Was it simply botched? We may never know. Personally I sort of expect it was column B — FF’s creation suite feels like an even slimmer repeat of the year the 2K games jumped from PS3 to PS4. Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jul 27, 2023 |
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Jul 27, 2023 06:11
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Basic Chunnel posted:I’m really curious abt why the CAW suite turned out the way it did. Was it not given the priority it clearly required? Was it given priority but proved simply beyond any reasonable scope? Was it simply botched? We may never know. Personally I sort of expect it was column B — FF’s creation suite feels like an even slimmer repeat of the year the 2K games jumped from PS3 to PS4. I think it has to be a combination of the possibilities. There were clearly budgeting, resource and time issues, it's impossible not to see that, but you also have things like the decision to force every CAW to grind through an RTE run to build stats that are unmistakably design flaws, because it would have been LESS work to just let you customize them at will. Someone at some point in development had to make the call that the CAW system should be used to support the story mode, rather than the other way around.
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Jul 27, 2023 06:40
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tbh i think they expected to lock a bunch of CAW stuff behind Stadium Stampede mode with battles passes and poo poo, and then when that got delayed this is what we were left with. i also don't think Stadium Stampede is going to save the game; it looks fun but it's also just Rumbleverse v2 & v1 died two months before this released. Gumball Gumption posted:Fight Forever is great but also distinctly a game no one makes anymore, a couch co-op party game, for good reason. They kind of forgot that the problem with making a game from 2002 is that no one consumes media the way they do in 2002. also this. I'd imagine this is less of an issue for the actual AEW workers though, since they're actively in the same planes, cars & hotels the vast majority of the time.
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Jul 27, 2023 06:40
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A few months back someone from Yukes said the game was far from ready and AEW disputed that and my conspiracy theory is that AEW decided to release the game as it was at that point.
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Jul 27, 2023 11:37
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Basic Chunnel posted:FTR are still coming (ETA TBD) FTR dlc landed at launch You did have to go into the create a team mode to actually make a real tag team out of them though, which is also true for several other tag teams who were in the base game lol They had the whole entrance animation and videos and music for Jurassic express but you had to manually make a Jurassic express team out of them to use them
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Jul 27, 2023 11:55
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Still the best wrestling game ever made
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Jul 27, 2023 12:51
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Deadlock's running another Fight Forever tournament, currently in the Losers Bracket. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=216LEJHnYIE Also this means that Deadlock is doing more to advertise Fight Forever than even AEW/THQ Nordic/Yukes at this point.
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Jul 30, 2023 01:53
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Gumball Gumption posted:Fight Forever is great but also distinctly a game no one makes anymore, a couch co-op party game, for good reason. They kind of forgot that the problem with making a game from 2002 is that no one consumes media the way they do in 2002. Yeah, less WWF No Mercy, and more Def Jam if you're doing an arcade type wrestling game. Or if Kenny's weeb rear end demands otherwise, go the Fire Pro Wrestling Route
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Jul 30, 2023 03:35
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NutritiousSnack posted:Yeah, less WWF No Mercy, and more Def Jam if you're doing an arcade type wrestling game. If Kenny's weeb rear end demanded fire pro we'd have gotten a good CAW suite at least 
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Jul 30, 2023 03:46
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I stopped playing FF a week or two after it came out, and 2K23 sits in my drive like a firgotten turd, but hey at least WrestleQuest releases on the 8th.
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Jul 30, 2023 12:44
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Lol I'm watching this fight forever tournament and it's pretty fun but the spectator view is atrocious. Every move looks glitchy as gently caress.
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Jul 30, 2023 18:24
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explosivo posted:Lol I'm watching this fight forever tournament and it's pretty fun but the spectator view is atrocious. Every move looks glitchy as gently caress. It somehow got worse from the last tournament.
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Jul 30, 2023 19:51
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Angry_Ed posted:It somehow got worse from the last tournament. It also somehow got worse after I made that post, haha. Straight up reversing the models for that one match.
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Jul 30, 2023 21:09
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super macho dude posted:I stopped playing FF a week or two after it came out, and 2K23 sits in my drive like a firgotten turd, but hey at least WrestleQuest releases on the 8th. I got an advanced copy of that. It's pretty fun so far, but I'm still in the prologue stuff where I'm learning the basics. So far I've run into the Nasty Boys, saw Invincible and Atom Eve cheering me on in the crowd, had a Gundam knockoff tell me that there was a 141 2/3% chance of enjoying an upcoming wrestling show, and talked to that Angry Joe guy from YouTube. Also, they have podcast hosts as the game's Greek chorus.
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Aug 1, 2023 04:43
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one of the top modders in the game's discord already quit out of frustration and currently one of the best mods is one that bumps up wrestler health so matches don't end in 3 drat minutes. I hate to say it but this might be one of the worst game purchases I've made since Avengers. I think it was a massive red flag when one of the devs had said the game was nowhere near ready, and then a month later it dropped anyway---I expected at least half the season pass to be out by now and there's been complete radio silence.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:21
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To me the matches could be a little longer but honestly I wouldn’t want that big a change because, honestly, to me fast matches are something this has that other wrestling games don’t.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:40
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I like them this short for gameplay purposes.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:44
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The woman CAW I made had long hair and the horns headpiece and her hair basically exploded nonstop outside of matches. Like cartoon stuck a finger in an electrical socket hair. I also got it on Steam since it was like $35 for the version with the dlc pass. Even if I wanted to play it online I don't think it's even alive there. It's a shame how it turned out, but I still have fun just throwing some random matches together and beating Danielson's rear end with Abadon. I have probably had 50 exploding barbwire matches.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:44
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IGgy IGsen posted:I like them this short for gameplay purposes. Yeah it’s a shame that there’s no Universe equivalent because I could imagine actually running through cards if every match was reasonably fast. Maybe I’ll do like I do in Fire Pro and just mentally group together matches and run a show at a time.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:47
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I’m not sure the game ever had a very good sense of what it was going for, or rather, that whatever greater ambitions it had were never really feasible, and so they settled on a fairly simple sports arcade-type experience suited to a stripped down feature set. Was No Mercy an arcade-y game? In some ways, yes, but it didn’t feel thin. It felt like there was real meat to it. The problem is that arcade games have not done well in recent years. FF feels a lot like the NBA Jam remake — not bad to play, does what it sets out to do, but that wasn’t much beyond quick and basic exhibitions. It didn’t sell well. Beyond the few legacy franchises kept alive by e-sports, there doesn’t seem to be a market for that kind of throwback. And with games based on actual sports, you have to remember that the most common type of sports nerd is the stats guy, the theory-crafting fantasy league guy, and whatever the flaws of roundabout simulationism in sports games I think it appeals more to those people than arcade-y treatments or the deepest possible TEW sim-strategy.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:47
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People are already putting out MODs for basic poo poo in the PC version like health regeneration or longer health so matches don't end so quickly. I bought it on Switch, but now I have a Steamdeck so I'm looking forward to getting AEW on sale eventually. Hopefully by that time modders will have made it a more robust game.
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Aug 1, 2023 18:53
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DLC Inc posted:one of the top modders in the game's discord already quit out of frustration and currently one of the best mods is one that bumps up wrestler health so matches don't end in 3 drat minutes. I hate to say it but this might be one of the worst game purchases I've made since Avengers. I think it was a massive red flag when one of the devs had said the game was nowhere near ready, and then a month later it dropped anyway---I expected at least half the season pass to be out by now and there's been complete radio silence. I'm gonna have to agree with you. If I could get it refunded I would. I won't go so far as to say its a bad game but that's only because I barely play it. I bounced off it hard.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:04
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I'll be honest, I get more enjoyment out of MyGM than anything in FF, but also if I want to actually PLAY a game it's FF. 2k23 has a lot more options for me to watch and enjoy but the gameplay isn't there. It's just that I enjoy the non-gameplay stuff of 2k23 more than the gameplay of FF
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Aug 1, 2023 19:16
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Yeah. My ideal modern wrestling game would be something with the in-game mechanics of Fight Forever, but all the career mode/CAW/bells and whistles that come with the WWE presentation. Alas.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:19
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Basic Chunnel posted:I’m not sure the game ever had a very good sense of what it was going for, or rather, that whatever greater ambitions it had were never really feasible, and so they settled on a fairly simple sports arcade-type experience suited to a stripped down feature set. Was No Mercy an arcade-y game? In some ways, yes, but it didn’t feel thin. It felt like there was real meat to it. I think Fight Forever wants to be a competitive fighting (but wrestling) game, but has a lot of broken mechanics that nobody seems to care about fixing and came out in the same month as a brand new Street Fighter built around extremely extensive create a fighter options.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:34
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The game is absolutely finished, the back and forth about it being finished or not was AEW saying it was mostly finished and waiting for ESRB ratings and tweaks. Developers saying it wasn't finished was in the context that it had not gone gold yet so they didn't have the final finished product that was shipping. They made a good game that's finished, it's just also the sort of game people don't play anymore. It's a really good party game where you pick your favorite AEW wrestler and fight and would have killed in 2002 or something but the entire idea of what a wrestling game is has changed a ton. It's a really well made game that has a huge vision and direction problem.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:52
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Seems to me like they could have relatively easily added in a bunch of CAW/CAA stuff and this whole thing would have been much better. The graphics aren’t even super detailed so each asset would probably be less resource intensive. I get most devs would give up on a game after this kind of reception, but didn’t AEW pay a boatload of money to Yukes in order to have this game made and have a platform from which to develop future products? Given that, can’t TK just sort of throw money at this in order to have other modes/characters/CaW/etc added? The game always seemed to be an advertisement strategy and it’s hard to have that work if your game gets a bad rep.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:06
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I like the game, but I also haven't played it in a couple of weeks. I honestly don't know if I'll ever feel the pull to play a wrestling game day after day the way something like God of War or even Stardew Valley sunk their teeth into me. It'll be fun to play hanging with friends, but even if the story mode was super long I don't ever foresee a wrestling game storyline being captivating or interesting enough to keep me locked in for a very long time.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:29
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Ganso Bomb posted:I like the game, but I also haven't played it in a couple of weeks. I honestly don't know if I'll ever feel the pull to play a wrestling game day after day the way something like God of War or even Stardew Valley sunk their teeth into me. It'll be fun to play hanging with friends, but even if the story mode was super long I don't ever foresee a wrestling game storyline being captivating or interesting enough to keep me locked in for a very long time. That's where I'm at. When I was a kid I would have been playing this game non stop. It's what I did for No Mercy and WM2K for example. I would just play matches over and over again while my limp bizkit album played on repeat. I think it's just not for me anymore. I have no idea what the kids these days think about it.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:51
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bloodysabbath posted:Seems to me like they could have relatively easily added in a bunch of CAW/CAA stuff and this whole thing would have been much better. The graphics aren’t even super detailed so each asset would probably be less resource intensive. The lack of options in the CAW suite is still the biggest mystery to me. I know they decided to focus more on the mini games, but it's lacking options more than any create a player in any kind of game that I've played im recent memory. It doesn't even have the parts for the characters in the game!
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Aug 1, 2023 21:05
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rare Magic card l00k posted:I think Fight Forever wants to be a competitive fighting (but wrestling) game, but has a lot of broken mechanics that nobody seems to care about fixing and came out in the same month as a brand new Street Fighter built around extremely extensive create a fighter options. I genuinely wonder if the issue is Kenny being more an FGC nerd than a wrestling game one. Senerio posted:I'll be honest, I get more enjoyment out of MyGM than anything in FF, but also if I want to actually PLAY a game it's FF. 2k23 has a lot more options for me to watch and enjoy but the gameplay isn't there. See, I find 2K23 probably more fun to pick up and play. FF has some clever innovations, like the special modes for wrestlers like OC, the desperation finishers, letting people have multiple variations of the same finisher so you don't have to decide if Cena can do the rolling AA or the middle-rope one. But the overall package, while fun, just feels a bit misjudged
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Aug 1, 2023 21:55
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I love actually playing the game I just ran out of poo poo to do. And I'd pick up and run through a random arcade or tournament mode every once in awhile if there was a single player mode outside of RTE or just exhibition matches. So now it's just sort of sitting on my shelf
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Aug 1, 2023 22:03
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I got about 10 hours out of the game before being chased away from online from cheese that marked the endpoint for me. I don't regret buying it bc I got it with a gift card but I definitely do regret buying the edition with the DLC sight unseen. I probably should have looked to see what the packs were before buying it because had I known what the roadmap was I can't imagine I would have shelled out for the whole shebang.
explosivo fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 22:06
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Big Coffin Hunter posted:I love actually playing the game I just ran out of poo poo to do. And I'd pick up and run through a random arcade or tournament mode every once in awhile if there was a single player mode outside of RTE or just exhibition matches. So now it's just sort of sitting on my shelf 
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Aug 1, 2023 22:09
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explosivo posted:I got about 10 hours out of the game before being chased away from online from cheese that marked the endpoint for me. I don't regret buying it bc I got it with a gift card but I definitely do regret buying the edition with the DLC sight unseen. I probably should have looked to see what the packs were before buying it because had I known what the roadmap was I can't imagine I would have shelled out for the whole shebang. Yeah I feel like I got my money out of the base game but really shouldn’t have grabbed the pack with the season pass even tho I got it all for less than just the base game cost without a sale. There just isn’t a ton to do after you’ve gone through RTE once or twice and played some matches, online died pretty immediately on PC and I somehow doubt a kind of battle royale type mode is going to bring anyone back.
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Aug 1, 2023 22:38
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no regrets. can't wait for hook. play at least a half hour every day while I'm on the exercise bike.
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Aug 1, 2023 22:42
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The gameplay is fun, but it's hard to keep playing when all it offers is exhibition and RTE. I really wish there was a better CAW mode, more match types (tornado tag, multi-person ladder matches not being available is a crime), even a mode to create a PPV would be nice. I'm glad I got it on PC as mods are kind of promising, but it's a big lift for a small community.
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Aug 1, 2023 23:25
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