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For those questioning it, the fundamental issue is the plan to make driving cars around the area more difficult, while at the same time reducing and eliminating public transport options. It's not carrot and stick: it's stick with a side helping of stick. The scheme would have been so much easier to sell to residents if a key feature had been new bus routes and more regular services, but buses in Bristol are a privatised monopoly held by FirstBus, and they've got no interest in maintaining any but the most profitable routes. Personally, I'm in favour of low traffic neighbourhoods on balance, but I think the council should have held off until they've managed to get the bus services back under their control (something people in Bristol are screaming for, by the way), then they could have managed the whole thing in an integrated manner. The half-assed way it's been done is frustrating 'cos, as I said, I think they're a pretty reasonable idea but doing it like this is turning neutral, persuadeable people hostile to the whole concept.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:02
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sebzilla posted:If public transport was cheaper and less lovely (I'd ask for "free and good but, you know") then it would be much easier to get people to drive less. I like the positioning of the closing quote here. As though the proposed policy for public transport is "free and good, but, you know" What could this mean. Might play it safe and get a car
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Jul 31, 2023 10:05
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barring disability or distance I don't see a reason for kids not to be walking in- mine were doing a short walk on their own to primary school by year 5, then for secondary the elder did just under 2 miles to get there and younger is currently going to a different one that's only a bit less of a walk investment was in shoes and suitable coats, payout is well exercised and independent kids DesperateDan fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 10:15
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In NI getting the bus to school, secondary schools at least, is the norm. There are school buses for most areas including rural ones. They transport pupils to bus stations, then separate buses take kids to their respective schools. I don't know what the current limits are, but when I was at school anyone living more than 1.5 miles from their school got a free bus pass. It doesn't cater to everyone and some people choose to drive their kids to school, but anytime I see the buses they're always full so it definitely takes a lot of traffic off the road.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:21
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It's a shame that Florence Pugh is cool, talented and beautiful but her dad is a  ULEZ oval officehttps://twitter.com/bartlebooth45/status/1685941851138732032?t=isOVMyeFRPJODeW0bngATw&s=19
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Jul 31, 2023 10:21
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ronya posted:Yeah but... why now in the particular, why not with any number of previous walkability and pedestrianization initiatives - it's not like the conspiratorial grift is new It's a direct continuation of covid lockdown conspiracy theories about "controlling your movement". In the UK those people went to LTNs (and local to London, ULEZ expansion) and in the US they went to 15 minute cities, and because this is all done through intermingled Facebook groups we have people taking the bus in south london with their "15 minute cities" poster and somewhere in south carolina there's a guy outside city hall talking very loudly about londonistan.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:26
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keep punching joe posted:More schools is also a solution, so kids can you know walk to them from their house. Rather than the trend in recent years of closing smaller secondaries and merging them into big mega campuses. This also plays a role, same with nurseries. There is one within walking distance but we've been on their waiting list since October so driving to another nursery it is.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:26
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as someone who needs a bus to get around south london i am extremely anti-car (especially during rush hours) but yeah if you're doing LTNs without including better public transport that is pretty silly! SUVs in urban areas should be banned outright though
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Jul 31, 2023 10:28
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josh04 posted:It's a direct continuation of covid lockdown conspiracy theories about "controlling your movement". In the UK those people went to LTNs (and local to London, ULEZ expansion) and in the US they went to 15 minute cities, and because this is all done through intermingled Facebook groups we have people taking the bus in south london with their "15 minute cities" poster and somewhere in south carolina there's a guy outside city hall talking very loudly about londonistan.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:34
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The problem isn't cars, it's cities.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:40
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josh04 posted:It's a direct continuation of covid lockdown conspiracy theories about "controlling your movement". In the UK those people went to LTNs (and local to London, ULEZ expansion) and in the US they went to 15 minute cities, and because this is all done through intermingled Facebook groups we have people taking the bus in south london with their "15 minute cities" poster and somewhere in south carolina there's a guy outside city hall talking very loudly about londonistan. That answers "why now" but not "why that one"... there's a gazillion movement-related and public-health-surveillance-related and biosecurity-related local govt strategies and initiatives all the time Luck of the draw, maybe
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Jul 31, 2023 10:44
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:In NI getting the bus to school, secondary schools at least, is the norm. There are school buses for most areas including rural ones. They transport pupils to bus stations, then separate buses take kids to their respective schools. I don't know what the current limits are, but when I was at school anyone living more than 1.5 miles from their school got a free bus pass. There are parts of the world where not only do you have school buses, you have factory buses so your don't have to hoof it to work. Of course in the UK the people least able to afford it are asked to shell out for their own transport.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:46
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ronya posted:That answers "why now" but not "why that one"... there's a gazillion movement-related and public-health-surveillance-related and biosecurity-related local govt strategies and initiatives all the time You never see them going on about the gangs violence matrix (GVM), even though that's a lot closer to how UN Agenda 2030 Social Credits CBDC is supposed to work.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:47
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I guess, technically, my rural town of a thousand maybe, might almost qualify as a 15 minute "city". I got two grocery stores and two schools within 4 km or less and I can walk that in 15 minutes if I walk fast. Bicycle no prob to cover that in less than 15 min. But I prefer to take my car, and most times I stop by on my way to work anyway which takes me right past it. I gotta admit I really enjoy driving a car and the freedom it gives me. I actually got myself another car because I just enjoy driving it and working on it, my summer car. It all works fine as long as population density is low. I went to stockholm in July and driving there was a PITA, though not as terrible as I had thought.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:47
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Okay, so I disagree with the idea that enough public transport will eliminate the need for private car use for many reasons. And I know that is not what is being advocated for here (I am not trying to straw man anyone here.) But I do think people are failing to see that just with the one example (namely bringing kids to school.) that there are lots of cases that come up for why parents drive their kids to school. First, is distance. Some people do live a large distance away from the school that public transport isn't really an option. (A situation where the school the child goes to is on the far side of town from where the family lives, because this is the better school.) Yes public transport helps here, as does more investment in all schools so we enroll our kids in the nearest school since they are all the best. But again, this is a bigger picture issue to sort out and requires more investment. Second, age of children. When you have young kids (and that age is one that is different) you can't use public transport with them, or can't just leave them to use public transport. And that's single kids. If there are multiple siblings, you basically reset the clock on when your child will decide to use public transport everytime you have another kid. (If you have an 8 year old and their 4 year old brother is being driven to school, the 8 will also probably want to be driven to school too "since it's only fair.") Third, individual circumstances of the child. Like I know that this gets written off about parents chauffeuring their kids to and from school as some irrational fear that they will be harmed on public transport and the risks of accidents while being driven is higher and so on. But there is a lot here. The children might have some medical condition, which means they can't use public transport. The child (or parent) might have some sort of past trauma that means they can't or won't use public transport. Fourth, kids are so disorganised. Trying to get one kid to leave for any place on time is a nightmare. Doing it with more than one becomes a worse proposition. And you can say "that's just a skill they need to learn in the real world" it's a process that really can take a long time to do. And very often if a parent needs a child somewhere by a time, they have to take charge and bring them somewhere. Fifth, and I can't believe I have to put this one in writing, we all do know what the weather is like in this part of the world? Like consistent or awful rain is very, very common. Like my overall point is, I think many people are just taking their personal situation and trying to apply it universally for other families. Like you will get kids who want to use the bus by themselves or with friends to go to school, no matter the weather or distance. But you also get other kids who can't or won't or it just isn't feasible. And yes, improvements in public transport will help make it more feasible, you can't also go along with an associated "demonise families for driving their kids to school and being part of the problem." The last part isn't helpful and comes across a bit of "I don't understand why you have to be so involved in your children's lives. I was a child once, and it was fine. And though I'm now only capable of remembering it back with an adults mindset, I assume all the same rules and my personal situations apply to everyone else." And this is, like I said earlier, just in connection with the school run. There are many other transport situations that people deal with in day to day lives where "maor public transport" just won't solve it.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:53
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Fun one on the local facebook group the other day actually, a grainy candid of a teen pissing on a 'memorial' tree (to an event, not a person). Half the replies frothing about the feral youth of today, the other half saying maybe banning all unaccompanied teens from the shopping centre (including toilets) might have been a bad idea. ronya posted:That answers "why now" but not "why that one"... there's a gazillion movement-related and public-health-surveillance-related and biosecurity-related local govt strategies and initiatives all the time This NYT piece suggests that an anti-LTN protest in Oxford was put onto the idea by Oxford council's 2021 report on the concept and it spread from there.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:55
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Incredible that the USA, the most insane carfucker culture that has ever existed, has basically solved the problem of getting kids to school via public transport in most parts of their diverse country. But no, it's definitely intractable
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Jul 31, 2023 10:57
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The Question IRL posted:Second, age of children. When you have young kids (and that age is one that is different) you can't use public transport with them, or can't just leave them to use public transport. I think this seems like an instance where you, as an adult, would need to explain to your children that as they get older there are some things they will need to do that their younger siblings can not do, and sometimes this will involve getting the bus. Also, why can't you use public transport with your children? They get cheaper fares, that's the entire point.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:02
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Guavanaut posted:Speaking of which, Behind the Bastards had a good two parter on kidnapping/trafficking conspiracy theories and how they play into both primal fears and also the suburban right wing paranoid style (keep your hand on your gun brah, that slice of cheese on your SUV is how the traffickers get you brah, that's how trafficking works). I listened to this the other day, I had no idea quite how many crazy kidnapping theories there were. The loud man didn't let Sarah Marshall speak enough though. Her earlier You're Wrong About episodes about "stranger danger" and other similar moral panics are always worth checking out. -- School run chat makes me sad  It's insane to have dozens of SUVs descending on schools twice a day, but you never get further than "but school choice", "but disabled kids", "but the weather"Meanwhile in my neoliberal rainy doom country has little tots cycling to school in all weathers, or being bakfiets-ed by their parents. No idea how you get there from the UK's current place though (and there's opposition locally to more anti-car measures being proposed by the city gov... but at least they're proposing them!)
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Jul 31, 2023 11:05
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^^^^ God I hate SUVs to boot. loving hate them. The Question IRL posted:Okay, so I disagree with the idea that enough public transport will eliminate the need for private car use for many reasons. And I know that is not what is being advocated for here (I am not trying to straw man anyone here.) I agree in large part. Though I think the idea isn't to get rid of cars either but being able to use your car less. Like I said I own car(s) and I even enjoy cars and driving. But I would say 80% of my driving is for work and if there went a bus on my work hours, I would take it. But sadly nobody felt a regular bus route for a guy going from a town of 1k to an even smaller town further out into the countryside, would be profitable. So barring that, I think the best way to get people to drive less, is for people to work fewer days of the week. So much of driving is because of work or in some way relates to work. One might also consider that a lot of commercial driving is in most ways serving the consumption oriented economy. Less work, less consumption, less driving.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:05
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Z the IVth posted:There are parts of the world where not only do you have school buses, you have factory buses so your don't have to hoof it to work. There's an Amazon staff-only double-decker runs from Woolwich to um their Dartford warehouse I guess; I see it when I'm down there early mornings.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:07
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Also, make your kids start school later. 1st grade in Finland is age 7. That will reduce the amount of required driving for young kids and they will be big enough to hop into the school taxi or bus once it's time to start school.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:08
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OwlFancier posted:
I don’t drive so have no car in this fight but how do you get a bus to two different schools with two different children at the same time unless you’re lucky enough that both schools are miraculously on the same route?
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Jul 31, 2023 11:08
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Kids under 7 shouldn't be driving at all imo. Unless it's one of those little red and yellow plastic cars
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Jul 31, 2023 11:09
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History Comes Inside! posted:I don’t drive so have no car in this fight but how do you get a bus to two different schools with two different children at the same time unless you’re lucky enough that both schools are miraculously on the same route? The assertion appeared to be a blanket one that You Can Not Use Public Transport With Kids which I am having trouble understanding.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:10
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Bobstar posted:Her earlier You're Wrong About episodes about "stranger danger" and other similar moral panics are always worth checking out.  It's interesting (and disgusting) how easily that segued into 'grooming gangs' to introduce a racist element from a bunch of people who definitely need their hard drives checking. I'll check those podcasts out.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:12
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The Question IRL posted:Okay, so I disagree with the idea that enough public transport will eliminate the need for private car use for many reasons. And I know that is not what is being advocated for here (I am not trying to straw man anyone here.) My own circumstances were that my partner and her kid moved in with me. He'd not long started secondary school, so we didn't want him moving schools but, no problem! There was a bus service that would take him from the end of our street to his school and back again. They move in, new term starts and FirstBus is immediately: "Yeah, we're cancelling that service forever. gently caress you." So now we do 2 additional daily car trips across the city, dropping him off and picking him up again. (This is also my personal reason for being pretty salty about the whole Bristol LTN/ bus services thing. Way to encourage us onto public transport, guys!)
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Jul 31, 2023 11:14
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Guavanaut posted:Ah, the one promoted heavily by pedophiles to convince parents that everyone else was a pedophile to distract from their pedophiling. Come now, Jimmy Savile knew everything there was to know about the dangers your children faced from paedophiles.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:18
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Didn't know my siblings and I were basically Randian supermen for... getting the bus to school by ourselves. But to be fair, my quality of life massively improved once WFH came in, because Bristols public transport is shite. Luckily the local MPs, Council, Mayor and the Weca Mayor are all labour, so nothing will ever get done about it because positive change is impossible.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:18
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https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1685956726674145280?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q There really is a certain grim inevitability to these sorts of things, isn't there?
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Jul 31, 2023 11:19
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1685956726674145280?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q They've figured out that they can kill poors and non-whites without consequence from the law.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:46
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Bibby. Bibby. Bibby. Floating Grenfell. Bibby. Bibby. Buffet tastes so good.
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Jul 31, 2023 12:00
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ronya posted:That answers "why now" but not "why that one"... there's a gazillion movement-related and public-health-surveillance-related and biosecurity-related local govt strategies and initiatives all the time it's an accidental transplant from the US via social media osmosis where it is (probably) another astroturf from the fossil fuel lobby pushing back on any drawdown in car usage. 15 minute cities came into the conversation - organically or otherwise - because people started discussing how hosed american city planning is (quite literally a conspiracy to sell cars, robert moses etc) versus european/chinese equivalents i have zero evidence for any of that but also that is the consequence whether it's intentional or not Rustybear fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 12:09
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Darth Walrus posted:There really is a certain grim inevitability to these sorts of things, isn't there?
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Jul 31, 2023 12:12
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1685956726674145280?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q That's The Plan
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Jul 31, 2023 12:16
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And then they'll get put back into dire hotels in the area instead. The cycle will continue at a cost of mere billions
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Jul 31, 2023 12:32
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I don't know if any of you have had Encona Chilli Jam, but it is currently my number 1 sauce for most dishes.Marmaduke! posted:And then they'll get put back into dire hotels in the area instead. The cycle will continue at a cost of mere billions Don't forget about the insurance payout!!
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Jul 31, 2023 13:07
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Suella Braverman posted:You can just boil them all
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Jul 31, 2023 13:07
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Chilli jam is the poo poo, but I've only ever had the"good kind" i.e. jar rather than squeezybottle. But I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that this is your good food opinion
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Jul 31, 2023 13:09
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domhal posted:Bibby. Bibby. Bibby. Floating Grenfell. Bibby. Bibby. Buffet tastes so good.
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