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EvilBlackRailgun posted:Praise be It does really feel like that finale was made as a just in case, or they thought it was going to get cancelled.
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Jul 31, 2023 08:00
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bking posted:I appreciate that The Kiss was a big deal for viewers and for the participants, but nobody else. Nobody was shocked or scandalized, and it wasn’t even addressed for the remaining 50 minutes of the season. I loved Jesse's look after that. What even was that expression? Pride that his baby bro became honest with himself?
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Jul 31, 2023 09:26
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Y'know, through seasons 1 and 2, I really, really liked this show, moreso by the end of S2. Now I realize that it's quickly becoming my favourite show of all time, comedy or otherwise. But it's definitely my favourite comedy. That finale was everything.
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Jul 31, 2023 13:57
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cant cook creole bream posted:I loved Jesse's look after that. What even was that expression? Pride that his baby bro became honest with himself? Probably about the same look I had on my face. jesse was fine with his bi son (who is not bi but w/e) I’m sure everyone who paid even a modicum of attention knew something was going on. I was surprised because after the butt massage I was pretty convinced that “as homoerotic as you can go without showing dicks but never ever acknowledging it” was gonna be the status quo forever. It’s nice that they’re actually pushing Kelvin forward. My big concern going into next season though is that I sort of worry that it’s gonna continue a trend that Gemstones has stuck with pretty hard through its first three seasons that always gives me a bit of cognitive dissonance. the show does a lot of white-washing of of the more bigoted aspects of evangelical culture. The Gemstones’ church is clearly concerned with a lot of the same issues as real evangelical megachurches and we get moments where they’re mirrors (the mask protests at the beginning of last season, Kelvin’s push against sex stores), but they all stop just short of acknowledging that most of the people in their audience are likely pretty racist and homophobic. The first couple seasons it was easy enough to ignore because the stories really didn’t deal with any of that and quite frankly this show is white as hell, with one black supporting character and Eric Andre last year. I’m sure there’s more to be said about this that I’m really not qualified to talk about because I’m not black, southern or evangelical, although I do know that churches in the south are extremely segregated so it wouldn’t be as easy as putting more black people in the church. This season that tendency to whitewash was a lot harder to ignore because the antagonists were a literal white supremacist militia who aside from wanting to go protest some statue protesters didn’t really act on that in any way. I’m not saying we needed to see them using slurs or doing hate crimes but it really felt inauthentic about the realities of certain people in the south in a way that the rest of the show does really well. I’m very curious to see how they treat Kelvin next season, because there’s absolutely no way in hell they can convince me that an entire mega church in South Carolina is gonna be cool with one of its leaders (let alone the one who runs the youth ministry) being gay.
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Jul 31, 2023 14:32
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The below is just my experience growing up in the south and is not me agreeing with or defending racism and segregation in Southern Churches. Having grown up in the south and gone to evangelical churches, I would say that the churches would much more often be overtly homophobic than overtly racist. The churches are heavily segregated to where to you usually have mostly white churches, mostly black churches, etc. but that’s come as a part of the history of the south and not really overt racism in most cases. That’s not to say some individuals at the churches are not very racist and the institutions aren’t more subtlely racist. The segregation is definitely a result of racism and violence in the past. More often than not you’d even have the white churches and black churches running events together against their shared enemies of lgbt and abortion. The homophobia is much more likely to flare at the Gemstone’s church and I wouldn’t surprised if we see some of that in the next session.
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Jul 31, 2023 14:57
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Most southern conservatives would not consider themselves racist and love having (the right kinds of) black families coming to their churches. So long as those black families conform to the unspoken rules of dress and behavior, they are welcome and actively pursued. Basically, they are not actively racist in their day-to-day lives, but if you try to talk to them about structural imbalances and how "having black friends" isn't the same thing as "not benefitting from hundreds of years of racism" that preceded you, they don't want to hear it. They never owned slaves so why should they pay any price for it now? And Curtis, the black guy who brings his family to church, agrees with me when I drag him into this conversation! And if you ask them why the pool on the black side of town is a shithole and the pool on the white side of town is nice, they'll say that "some people just don't know how to take care of things." But you'll never get them to expand on that thought. The homophobia is definitely more overt, though most of them would say they don't "hate gay people" they just wish they "wouldn't rub it in our faces all the time." And "rubbing in our faces" usually includes all forms of existing up to being out at all. The line is, "I believe in staying out of people's business so long as they stay out of mine, but I know what the Bible says is right and what it says is wrong and just because society changed its mind doesn't mean God has."
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Jul 31, 2023 15:15
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I want to add that megachurches too often have a moderately large black congregation as compared to smaller churches in the same evangelical vein. Obviously not disagreeing with any of that, but the show's church is a lot more whitewashed than, say, Osteen's.
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Jul 31, 2023 15:46
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I don't know why the kiss was a big deal to you guys... he's her uncle.
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Jul 31, 2023 15:52
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I think they had to do it this way in order for it to be a 'surprise'. I get the feeling they plot out seasons pretty tightly, and if they were going to include homophobia, it would have had to be a larger part of the season. But by making it a larger part of the season, it wouldn't have been as much of a surprise. Briefly mentioning it wouldn't have done the issue justice, so I get why there's no trace of it. If they do tackle that, imagine that'll be a core part of next season's plot for Kelvin. (Using surprise here loosely. It's been a big will they won't they whole series, but it was still up in the air, so, 'surprise'.)
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Jul 31, 2023 15:53
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Saltpowered posted:The homophobia is much more likely to flare at the Gemstone’s church and I wouldn’t surprised if we see some of that in the next session. They definitely laid the groundwork for it with the teen group parents making concerned references to the "rumors" about Kelvin. They've established that the Gemstones run a big tent sort of church (the network meeting at the beginning of last season had a Gemstone affiliate mention how their congregation was "ok with the gays") so it's not as poisonous to their brand as it would be for some megachurches, but it's still a source of tension.
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Jul 31, 2023 15:57
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Also, the show has been really consistent with its treatment of the congregation and christians in general. I read somewhere they never wanted the jokes to be, "look at these backward morons getting ripped off." As far as I can remember, every time we've seen the congregation or lay leadership being antagonistic, they've been justified. This isn't a "christians are dumb" show, so it wouldn't surprise me if they just don't go down that path at all.
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Jul 31, 2023 16:00
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Huxley posted:Also, the show has been really consistent with its treatment of the congregation and christians in general. I read somewhere they never wanted the jokes to be, "look at these backward morons getting ripped off." As far as I can remember, every time we've seen the congregation or lay leadership being antagonistic, they've been justified. This isn't a "christians are dumb" show, so it wouldn't surprise me if they just don't go down that path at all. The show isn't there to dunk on Christians as a whole, but individual Christians can still be dumb and wrong. The militiamen were very devout, even moreso than the Gemstones, but there's no question that they were shown as backwards and evil. The show just contrasts them with other examples of good Christian behavior (including May-May and Peter's pre-Y2K church.) Most of the people in the Gemstones' audience are just there to have a happy, uplifting time so they're not going to do a huge arc about the church turning against Kelvin en masse but that doesn't meant they're not going to address it at all (even if it likely winds up being mostly about the internal struggle of the others wanting to keep Kelvin's relationship sidelined in public to avoid rocking the boat.)
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Jul 31, 2023 16:31
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Mega churches having things like daycare and field trips and gyms and cheap meals makes things pretty enticing in a world where the government doesn't provide any of that anymore Also the weekly family friendly concert Plenty of people will say they're there for the worship but the amenities definitely don't hurt
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Jul 31, 2023 16:37
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There’s a difference between the show’s very good desire not to paint all Christians as morons and assholes and ignoring systemic issues that exist in every church of that size in the south (and outside the south too). These churches are all doctrinally anti-gay and there’s zero way to ignore that without completely losing the show’s sense of realism. I don’t think they will completely ignore that but I do worry that like the militia they’ll sweep the disgust/hate that exists there under the rug.
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Jul 31, 2023 16:49
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Oh yeah I mix up will forte and Steve zahn a lot and was really hoping they'd pull a macgruber gag with the van's explosives and the top militia thugs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnM2o6rkgv4
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Jul 31, 2023 17:04
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moist turtleneck posted:Oh yeah I mix up will forte and Steve zahn a lot and was really hoping they'd pull a macgruber gag with the van's explosives and the top militia thugs Up until I watched Vice Principals, I actually mixed up Shea Wiggum and Steve Zahn. When I saw Dusty, I thought "oh, it's the dude who played Ray in VP, that guy who reminds me of Steve Zahn....". And lo....
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Jul 31, 2023 17:23
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DC Murderverse posted:Probably about the same look I had on my face. jesse was fine with his bi son (who is not bi but w/e) I’m sure everyone who paid even a modicum of attention knew something was going on. I was surprised because after the butt massage I was pretty convinced that “as homoerotic as you can go without showing dicks but never ever acknowledging it” was gonna be the status quo forever. It’s nice that they’re actually pushing Kelvin forward. DC Murderverse posted:There’s a difference between the show’s very good desire not to paint all Christians as morons and assholes and ignoring systemic issues that exist in every church of that size in the south (and outside the south too). These churches are all doctrinally anti-gay and there’s zero way to ignore that without completely losing the show’s sense of realism. I don’t think they will completely ignore that but I do worry that like the militia they’ll sweep the disgust/hate that exists there under the rug. It's a comedy show it's not on the hook to highlight/fight all the social injustices you bring up/opinions you are projecting onto fictional characters. It's a comedy show. It's not a documentary. "You know what this ~35 minute comedy show needs? Less jokes and more examples of hateful bigotry."
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Jul 31, 2023 17:30
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Bawled happy tears at the ending. Just overwhelmed with  .
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Jul 31, 2023 17:36
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Mob posted:It's a comedy show it's not on the hook to highlight/fight all the social injustices you bring up/opinions you are projecting onto fictional characters. It's a comedy show. It's not a documentary. You can do both, it’s not a binary. I’m not asking for them to have a subplot about revealing that Eli spend decades covering up for child abusers but having a show about a southern mega church where one of the leaders is gay and everyone is just cool with it would be like Brooklyn 99 trying to have their cake and eat it too for years before everyone was like “wait why is this show about NYPD officers full of goofy happy diverse people who don’t exist in real life because NYPD officers, to a man, suck poo poo?”
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Jul 31, 2023 17:43
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Detective No. 27 posted:A few years back when they did that Sex and the City revival, HBO made the news when they blindsided Peleton by depicting a character die on their elliptical. A FitBit fell off Peter’s wrist, nearly killing everyone around him.
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Jul 31, 2023 18:05
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What'd y'all think of the cover song at the end?Detective No. 27 posted:A few years back when they did that Sex and the City revival, HBO made the news when they blindsided Peleton by depicting a character die on their elliptical. The OKC bombing used a Ryder-brand truck. 
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Jul 31, 2023 18:07
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DC Murderverse posted:You can do both, it’s not a binary. I’m not asking for them to have a subplot about revealing that Eli spend decades covering up for child abusers but having a show about a southern mega church where one of the leaders is gay and everyone is just cool with it would be like Brooklyn 99 trying to have their cake and eat it too for years before everyone was like “wait why is this show about NYPD officers full of goofy happy diverse people who don’t exist in real life because NYPD officers, to a man, suck poo poo?” Said this already, but while you can, you probably shouldn't if it'd have to be shoehorned in in the last episode and not given proper attention.
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Jul 31, 2023 18:11
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I wanna be one of the Bonker Boys 
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Jul 31, 2023 18:17
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Oh god the Gene Hackman bit was fuckin great too. I aaaaaaalmost thought they actually pulled him out of retirement for a cameo.
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Jul 31, 2023 18:29
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Boogaloo Shrimp posted:I wanna be one of the Bonker Boys Well, they've got an open spot now.
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Jul 31, 2023 18:31
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CatstropheWaitress posted:Said this already, but while you can, you probably shouldn't if it'd have to be shoehorned in in the last episode and not given proper attention. Yeah it’s gonna be a next season thing, they barely even referenced it in the final episode of this season
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Jul 31, 2023 18:33
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Definitely the happiest season, overall. Nobody even died! Well, except for a couple militia, a Bonker Boy, *maybe* that PA who got brained by a light. Oh yeah, and Dusty.
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Jul 31, 2023 19:22
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Read After Burning posted:What'd y'all think of the cover song at the end?
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Jul 31, 2023 19:55
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DC Murderverse posted:There’s a difference between the show’s very good desire not to paint all Christians as morons and assholes and ignoring systemic issues that exist in every church of that size in the south (and outside the south too). These churches are all doctrinally anti-gay and there’s zero way to ignore that without completely losing the show’s sense of realism. I don’t think they will completely ignore that but I do worry that like the militia they’ll sweep the disgust/hate that exists there under the rug. Not all churches (even megachurchs) are doctrinally anti-gay. There’s actually a lot of variety depending on the denomination. Are the vast majority? Sure. Is it believable that a church that wants to cater to as many people and $ as possible isn’t? Yep.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:57
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I thought the show was going to pull a fake-out when Kelvin doubled back, so I'm so pleased they committed.  Corin Tucker's Stalker posted:Shine? It's funny because I immediately recognized the song but it took me a few moments to identify the singer. At first I thought it was Alison Krauss, who always seemed like a great fit for the show. Imagine not recognizing Queen Dolly. 
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Jul 31, 2023 22:07
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It's a bit of a stretch, and it might be good for them to acknowledge some tension, but yeah I can believe a megachurch starting to look the other way because you want to be a Big Tent and all. The Gemstone church definitely does the "the world is sinful and full of depravity" bit, but they avoid really getting into the Culture War stuff. E: I think there's also something to be said for the fact that even the slightly cleaned-up version of the Evangelical world we get here is still pretty hosed up, and it lets them specifically target those things that stay hosed up even if churches change with the times. Like yeah, they don't push segregation anymore, they have their telegenic black friends, they have moved the target, but there is still an Other that is a threat, and that's just the sinful secular world. Maxwell Lord fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 22:07
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I still don't understand how no one is talking about the cock helicopter foreplay scene. It was one of the greatest things I have ever seen.
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Jul 31, 2023 22:33
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Nothing to talk about, it stands on its own.
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Jul 31, 2023 22:51
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Maxwell Lord posted:It's a bit of a stretch, and it might be good for them to acknowledge some tension, but yeah I can believe a megachurch starting to look the other way because you want to be a Big Tent and all. The Gemstone church definitely does the "the world is sinful and full of depravity" bit, but they avoid really getting into the Culture War stuff. The usual playbook for churches that don't want to bang the anti-LGBTQ drum is to use a lot of vague handwavey language about "welcoming everyone", avoid staking out concrete positions, and use subtle discrimination to keep gay members sidelined without driving them off. That's why Kelvin, specifically, is an issue where random people in the crowd or low level employees being gay wouldn't be, because Kelvin is 1/3 of their public face. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 23:05
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Poopbutt posted:I still don't understand how no one is talking about the cock helicopter foreplay scene. It was one of the greatest things I have ever seen. The bathtub scene is a perfect cliff notes of Judy and BJs relationship especially the helicopter role play.
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Jul 31, 2023 23:11
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I bumped into the actor that plays Keefe (Tony Cavalero) at the Raising Canes in Burbank today. He was very very nice. That's my story.
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Jul 31, 2023 23:23
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So are all megachurches Evangical or something? There aren't any that are, like, Lutheran or whatever?
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Jul 31, 2023 23:40
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They are almost exclusively protestant and we can thank england for the first ones but America definitely refined the machinations for more profits
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Jul 31, 2023 23:49
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I think nowadays, all Evangelicals are Protestant, but not all Protestants are Evangelicals?
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Aug 1, 2023 00:07
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That is correct
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