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Is there an accepted accuracy figure for PCR's?
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Jul 31, 2023 18:15
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Why Am I So Tired posted:Is there an accepted accuracy figure for PCR's? False positives are ~0.01% False negatives are very high immediately after exposure and drop day by day. Pre Omicron it was ~98% false negatives at 2 days post exposure, ~50% at 5 days, and <10% after that until symptoms appear. False negatives for a symptomatic person were around 1%. My anecdotal understanding is that those timeframes are shortened in Omicron but the false negative rate for symptomatic people is higher, but I haven't seen studies on that.
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Jul 31, 2023 18:21
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The Oldest Man posted:FYI: Cue's LoD is about two orders of magnitude higher than lab PCR or Lucira so YMMV with that. And it's blindingly expensive to do serial testing with Oh yeah it's only a "good" solution in the wake of most public health quarters abandoning testing, it's not cheap and there are other downsides. There was a study that showed it was pretty dang equivalent to PCR for detecting asymptomatic cases in the field, though, and PCR is so dang sensitive that being two magnitudes better at detection might not actually be necessary for detection in the vast majority of cases.
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Jul 31, 2023 18:30
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Bruce Hussein Daddy posted:Florida is popping off right now. Monroe Co is Key West btw. [for third straight year] ah, just in time for school to start back up
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Jul 31, 2023 18:36
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I’m moving pretty close to the Canada border so going to definitely grab some kid seaweed spray. mine uses Xlear and I hope it’s doing what the research does. the kid spray bottle is a lot gentler.
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Jul 31, 2023 19:01
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The Oldest Man posted:False positives are ~0.01% Thanks, I appreciate it. ibid posted:https://nitter.net/Clean_Air_Club_/status/1685790242681331713 This too. Just ordered some Flo Travel Nasal Spray for my wife's upcoming doctor appointment just in case.
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Jul 31, 2023 19:10
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Insanite posted:https://twitter.com/BostonGlobe/status/1685957359137398784?s=20 Not much point. The Boston Globe article is paywalled.
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Jul 31, 2023 19:14
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CPU Abuser posted:Not much point. quote:(Turn off [JavaScript] if you really want to hate read him.) e: vvvvvv 
Insanite has issued a correction as of 19:35 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 19:18
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Insanite posted:(Turn off [JavaScript] if you really want to hate read him.) I'll be damned. It worked. Usually, you have to enable javascript. Thanks.
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Jul 31, 2023 19:25
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A good overview of the use of nasal sprays and mouth washes as they relate to COVID-19 is the Recommendation of the German Society of Hospital Hygiene (DGKH): Prevention of COVID-19 by virucidal gargling and virucidal nasal spray. They give an overview of the long history gargling and nasal sprays have in preventing respiratory diseases similar to COVID-19, as well as more modern studies looking specifically at their impact on SARS-CoV-2, and ultimately provide recommendations for the general population. It's a pretty accessible read, but to really condense it: they believe there is evidence that certain types of mouth rinses and nasal sprays are effective in both preventing infection (pre and post exposure) and lessening severity/shortening of COVID-19 symptoms, and that these substances have no significant side effects. They basically recommend:
In the US, Betadine Antiseptic Medicated Gargle is an accessible PVP-iodine-based mouth rinse. The article also provides instructions on how to make your own. Listerine is obviously super cheap and even more accessible. They recommend Listerine Cool Mint specifically, but any mouthwash with alcohol and/or essential oils is probably fine. I'm not aware of any PVP-iodine nasal sprays in the US. Flo Travel Spray has been mentioned in this thread a decent amount, and it's a pretty cheap iota carrageenan spray, and it's made by a reputable company. Going beyond what's in the DGKH review, there are a few trials that tried to evaluate the true preventative effect of nasal sprays clinically. But they are all flawed and should be taken with a grain of salt:
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Jul 31, 2023 19:44
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Phlag posted:A good overview of the use of nasal sprays and mouth washes as they relate to COVID-19 is the Recommendation of the German Society of Hospital Hygiene (DGKH): Prevention of COVID-19 by virucidal gargling and virucidal nasal spray. They give an overview of the long history gargling and nasal sprays have in preventing respiratory diseases similar to COVID-19, as well as more modern studies looking specifically at their impact on SARS-CoV-2, and ultimately provide recommendations for the general population. Thanks for posting. I don't ever plan on going maskless anywhere, but am definitely interested in ways to up my protection any way that's possible when I finally make it to the dentist or have any other situation in health care where I have to unmask. It really sucks that we have to loving do all this because society agreed that living with covid is fine and wonderful
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Jul 31, 2023 20:01
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Phlag posted:A good overview of the use of nasal sprays and mouth washes as they relate to COVID-19 is the Recommendation of the German Society of Hospital Hygiene (DGKH): Prevention of COVID-19 by virucidal gargling and virucidal nasal spray. They give an overview of the long history gargling and nasal sprays have in preventing respiratory diseases similar to COVID-19, as well as more modern studies looking specifically at their impact on SARS-CoV-2, and ultimately provide recommendations for the general population. Thank you!
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Jul 31, 2023 20:42
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I’ve known about the CPC mouth wash efficacy but if this PVP iodine is better then great. now is there a kid version too..(lol probably not)
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Jul 31, 2023 20:44
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Rochallor posted:Related, I got a call from the test site in Valparaiso. I asked if their booster trial was for the intranasal vaccine and they said they weren't allowed to say. So I pretended I had a phobia of needles and asked if needles would be involved, and they said it would involve needles. Meaning it's not the intranasal one I assume. euuugggh, what is the point of this cloak and dagger poo poo from this place (serious question, is there science behind this or something?) signed up on thursday last week, haven't received a call yet
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Jul 31, 2023 20:46
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I just had a telehealth appointment and now I'm in a really bad mood lol My doctor was predictably maskless and she told me I should come in for an appointment and to get lab work done. So I asked her if everyone in the building was required to wear N95's and if HEPA Purifiers / Corsi Cubes were being run. I got a very cheerful no and no, thanks to the PHE ending, but don't worry, because cases are lower than they've ever been since this started (lol). I said that testing has been largely shut down / converted to unreported RAT's and wastewater data is showing cases are quickly rising here, and she changed the subject lol. I asked if labs could be done outside and she said no because that's unsanitary and OSHA doesn't like that, it's not safe. As opposed to sitting in a box of a BSL-3 vascular pathogen with a 1 in 5 chance of leaving you with longterm illness. I feel like I'm going insane. If the issue I'm having progresses I might have to get head scans in the hospital lol gently caress Joe Biden and gently caress this stupid country.
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Jul 31, 2023 20:53
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Just go in with your mask and get the bloodwork done. Its usually not that long in an enclosed space. :\ edit: i've had to get a stupid amount of labs and healthcare poo poo done in the last 6 months and in WA it isnt that bad at least.
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Jul 31, 2023 20:56
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Yeah that sounds like a trust your respirator scenario to me
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Jul 31, 2023 20:58
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silicone thrills posted:Just go in with your mask and get the bloodwork done. Its usually not that long in an enclosed space. :\ Yeah, I might (the bloodwork is unrelated to the issue, I'm just overdue), and I do have the PAPR lol. It's just all so stupid and needlessly dangerous. My wife's finally going in there in a few days in the Secure Click, I just have to internalize that respirators work. Hopefully the scan thing doesn't happen because there's no way they'd let me wear any elastomeric or, from what I understand, even an aura for that.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:02
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I went into the hospital with my roommate today to get his stitches removed. we are both wearing N95s when the doc asked to get a tongue temperature, my roommate said “I decline” and that was that
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Jul 31, 2023 21:10
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It's a very low chance to get infected in an hour or two. People that completely drop masks seem to average about 3-4 months (depending on prevalence), so you can back-calculate the odds from there. Get your medical care taken care of. It is ok to be angry at the health care workers who won't mask up though, because when they *do* get sick, they will infect a lot of people before they think about maybe staying home.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:13
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Baddog posted:It's a very low chance to get infected in an hour or two. I don't think this is true unfortunately. Some people are just luckier than others. All it takes is the wrong breath of air. Baddog posted:It is ok to be angry at the health care workers who won't mask up though, because when they *do* get sick, they will infect a lot of people before they think about maybe staying home. Yeah absolutely. And they should know better than anybody, but I guess germ theory is an opinion now. I wish we could clone someone like David Berger and replace our all of our Brunch Doctors with him.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:17
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Baddog posted:People that completely drop masks seem to average about 3-4 months (depending on prevalence), so you can back-calculate the odds from there. People who get infected usually have high neutralizing antibodies for a couple of months afterward so I would take this as "as soon as you're susceptible, you'll get it in 1-2 months." Just don't take your respirator off for anything that doesn't require working in your nose or mouth.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:19
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Biden's cancer moonshot is just going to be eliminating cancer screenings, isn't it. No screenings, no cases.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:19
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Steve Yun posted:I went into the hospital with my roommate today to get his stitches removed. we are both wearing N95s "I have ears and a forehead"
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Jul 31, 2023 21:20
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Baddog posted:It's a very low chance to get infected in an hour or two. People that completely drop masks seem to average about 3-4 months (depending on prevalence), so you can back-calculate the odds from there. Get your medical care taken care of. This is unfortunately not the case. People aren't all equally contagious, and so your odds of getting infected in a specific scenario are largely a matter of whether or not you're exposed to a super spreader (something that is invisible and not predictable in any way). Also, if people going maskless are getting it every 3-4 months, that's probably because that's how long it is before circulating antibodies wane. That would mean people are getting sick almost immediately after becoming vulnerable, and would suggest the opposite of your point. But also: go to the doctor, WAIST. E: Also don't forget readimasks exist, and might be an option for the scan you might need. It might be a good idea to start reaching out to ask now, because other people itt reported needing to talk to a couple of people before getting the official okay to use them in MRIs, and it doesn't sound like the kind of thing you want to delay. HazCat has issued a correction as of 21:28 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 21:24
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Baddog posted:It's a very low chance to get infected in an hour or two. People that completely drop masks seem to average about 3-4 months (depending on prevalence), so you can back-calculate the odds from there. Get your medical care taken care of. Aside from anything else, we seem to be getting worked up for a wave, so uhhhhh...
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Jul 31, 2023 21:25
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Baddog posted:It's a very low chance to get infected in an hour or two. People that completely drop masks seem to average about 3-4 months (depending on prevalence), so you can back-calculate the odds from there. this is the kind of calculation that eventually gets misunderstood to mean if you move kids around the room every 14 minutes they won't get covid, or that stupid loving infographic of "this mask gives you 40 hours and this one gives you 10 minutes." you're absolutely right it's all relative odds, but I think a more useful tool was "based on community cases, what are the chances of at least one person being positive in a group of X people." I think Georgia Tech put together that calculator? I mean, it's kind of useless now that no one tests. But some people are trying to back into community spread using waste water. if that holds up, I think I'm still going to use that method. quote:Get your medical care taken care of. absolutely.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:26
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Blood work is a gimme, you have no reason to take your respirator off for that and plenty of reasons to get it done.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:27
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HazCat posted:This is unfortunately not the case. People aren't all equally contagious, and so your odds of getting infected in a specific scenario are largely a matter of whether or not you're exposed to a super spreader (something that is invisible and not predictable in any way). Just going by the average I saw from people as they dropped masks and caught their first infections. Some people went quick, some people took 6+ months. Seemed to average about 3 months, for 8+ hours a day of being inside unmasked. Anecdotal, but I'm sure if you all think about it, you probably witnessed kinda around the same ballpark. But I hear you all. You can also work forward from ~1/100 is infected at any given time right now, but it is not automatic that a passing (or even longer) interaction will give it to you. Both working forward or back gives a low chance of being infected from an hour or so of 2 or 3 people working with you. Don't stress out so much about getting necessary medical care.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:31
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I think wearing a respirator that reduces your risk by a hundredfold or more is probably a better stress management strategy than rolling the dice to get necessary medical care but that's just me
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Jul 31, 2023 21:42
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Baddog posted:Just going by the average I saw from people as they dropped masks and caught their first infections. Some people went quick, some people took 6+ months. Seemed to average about 3 months, for 8+ hours a day of being inside unmasked. Anecdotal, but I'm sure if you all think about it, you probably witnessed kinda around the same ballpark. I think you are correct, but phrasing it poorly. I think you mean it is very low odds of getting infected in any given hour or two, as opposed to one to two hours of exposure being low risk. Right? Edit: Phrasing it poorly relative to the alternative interpretation, not in an absolute sense  Also WAIST, see the doctor! Doctors and dentists always, no ifs ands or buts. Pingui has issued a correction as of 21:48 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 21:42
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It's incredible to me that doctors won't / don't wear N95's. I know it shouldn't be surprising but it still is every time.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:45
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olives black posted:euuugggh, what is the point of this cloak and dagger poo poo from this place (serious question, is there science behind this or something?) Placebo effect minimization. If I were to guess, they give a vaccine booster as control, so saying it is nasal would give the game away. Edit: Of course being the US, it might be another case of mistaken hippo violation.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:52
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Phlag posted:Make no mistake: a well-fitted N95 or better mask is essentially 100% effective. Mouth washes and nasal sprays might get you around 60-80%. But if you have the money, I think they're worth doing both as preventative measures and to reduce symptom severity and duration after infection. Especially as more reasonably intelligent and risk-averse folks in this thread seem to be at a point where they are going to participate in some occasional unmasked activities, or live with people who will. Thank you for the references. Given the fact that I'm retired and without family, I'm one of the lucky people who can mask 100% of the time when they're outside known safe air. And you can be sure I extract every bit of advantage I have out of that situation. I'm also, by this time, a walking example of just how effective masks really are. Here I am, more than 3 and a half years into the pandemic, and I have yet to show symptoms of Covid-19. If I did manage to contract it anyway, it would have to have been entirely without symptoms, and I just don't think I'd really have been that lucky. I just wish more people availed themselves of modern N-95 and elastomeric masks. In my book, they're a superweapon. The thread got it right the first time: "only your respirator trust". But this issue has bounced back and forth in the thread quite a bit, and this made me wonder what research evidence there was on the topic. Your post and ibid's earlier one have given me a much better grasp of the supporting evidence.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:52
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trust your respirator, shinji
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Jul 31, 2023 21:55
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Pingui posted:I think you are correct, but phrasing it poorly. I think you mean it is very low odds of getting infected in any given hour or two, as opposed to one to two hours of exposure being low risk. Right? Right, if you're exposed to covid for an hour or two, that's pretty bad (but not automatic infection, even maskless with omicron). But the odds of being exposed in any given hour, in any given contact, are pretty low. At least outside of the omicron surge.
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Jul 31, 2023 21:56
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tuyop posted:trust your respirator, shinji Get in the doctor's office, Shinji
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Jul 31, 2023 21:57
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what's the otc nasal spray that show's good results? like found at rite aid/walgreens edit: I'm an idiot, flo was linked a few posts up
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Jul 31, 2023 21:59
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Baddog posted:But the odds of being exposed in any given hour, in any given contact, are pretty low. Being at a hospital is significantly riskier than the average "any given hour." Both because a) the number of people there is going to be pretty high and b) you're talking face to face with folks who are among the highest likelihood of having COVID at any given time (HCWs). That said though just put your n95 on and get your bloodwork done. Respirator trust etc.
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Jul 31, 2023 22:00
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Why Am I So Tired posted:Biden's cancer moonshot is just going to be eliminating cancer screenings, isn't it. No screenings, no cases. We're eventually going to apply the covid playbook to all other annoying and expensive public health issues
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Jul 31, 2023 22:03
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