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Virtual Russian posted:Before 3D printing you either had to recast something, or sculpt an original, both of these tap into skills generally associated with the arts. Your average wargaming nerd 25 years ago doesn't tend to have lots of familiarity with the arts, still don't in my experience. 
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Jul 30, 2023 23:36
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Virtual Russian posted:I think it took about a decade at least. I have lots of 6mm - 10mm prints with paint on them, so I'm taking the gamble that it will be fine, but the larger stuff I'm still mostly painting castings. I dunno about longevity but 3d prints are definitely more fragile in my experience from both a materials and design perspective. From a design point of view because the artists work digitally there is very little accounting of how the finished physical product will turn out - something physical sculptors will be very aware of is how you need to make a model sturdy enough to survive mastering. I've had resin prints made that had weapons which were sub-millimetres thick because they looked good on the renders but no one bothered to check what they would be like when printed. A lot of "multi-scale" models are literally just resized rather than going through an actual process of adjusting the work so it looks OK in a different scale. The recent Legions Imperialis designer interview mentions this in some detail and I'm sure you know anyway. One reason I like Papsikels and RNEstudios designs is they actually give some though to this and the final product is pretty good. Lots of designers have stuff which looks great rendered but comes our utterly poo poo when printed. From a materials perspective most of the common resins seem to be very brittle and combined with generally poor design choices the prints have to be handled with kid gloves. Shockingly I once dropped an Atlas print (Battletech) and it's legged snapped clean off. Which was a shock since that was a solid chunk of resin. ROK minis in the UK use engineering resin which is bendy, but their stuff is very expensive as a result.
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Jul 31, 2023 00:09
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Z the IVth posted:
I don't know what your problem is dude, but you are getting oddly hostile about your opinions on this. You should take a break. You keep weaseling your arguments around, and if anyone here is a disingenuous wanker it is you by a country mile.
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Jul 31, 2023 00:48
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Yeah, people need to print their own stls and use them. It is one thing to be able to sculpt it, it needs to be able to be used.
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Jul 31, 2023 00:55
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I can't count how many models I've got with the thinnest possible sword or carefully created chain mail where every link is individually done or whatever. Completely pointless at 28mm, and likely to just cause a print failure anyway.
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Jul 31, 2023 01:09
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IncredibleIgloo posted:I don't know what your problem is dude, but you are getting oddly hostile about your opinions on this. You should take a break. You keep weaseling your arguments around, and if anyone here is a disingenuous wanker it is you by a country mile.  " as your argument.
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Jul 31, 2023 02:22
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In Sharp Practice, is a Leader part of a unit or is he a separate model? Like the French Peninsular list has a Leader over a unit of 8 dragoons. Is that 9 models or 7 and a Sgt/Leader?
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Jul 31, 2023 02:33
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Beerdeer posted:In Sharp Practice, is a Leader part of a unit or is he a separate model? Like the French Peninsular list has a Leader over a unit of 8 dragoons. Is that 9 models or 7 and a Sgt/Leader? He counts as a model in the unit
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Jul 31, 2023 02:36
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Thank you
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Jul 31, 2023 02:38
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Arquinsiel posted:I'm pretty sure his problem is you resorted to "have fun going out of business old man Nah, he is unusually aggressive in multiple threads continuously. This isn't a one time thing.
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Jul 31, 2023 04:08
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Z the IVth posted:From a design point of view because the artists work digitally there is very little accounting of how the finished physical product will turn out - something physical sculptors will be very aware of is how you need to make a model sturdy enough to survive mastering. I think we touched upon this when we were doing the interview with the creator of Pulp Alley: traditional sculptors going 3D have better design sensibilities rather than just putting all of the fiddly detail you can on the model.
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Jul 31, 2023 04:34
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One thing I've always noticed with Papsikels is that because the models are made to survive actual use and are thus good models, they can look unusually stubby in the preview renders. It's always something you'd never notice in practise, though. More on topic, anyone know where I can get some snow suit AT gunner WW2/winter war Finns in small (15mm) scale? BF do a finnish range and still have some of their snow suit guys on mail order but seem to have discontinued the gun crews...
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Jul 31, 2023 07:07
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spectralent posted:One thing I've always noticed with Papsikels is that because the models are made to survive actual use and are thus good models, they can look unusually stubby in the preview renders. It's always something you'd never notice in practise, though. I haven't printed a lot of Papsikels stuff, but they do look better printed than as a render.
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Jul 31, 2023 07:18
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JcDent posted:I think we touched upon this when we were doing the interview with the creator of Pulp Alley: traditional sculptors going 3D have better design sensibilities rather than just putting all of the fiddly detail you can on the model. spectralent posted:One thing I've always noticed with Papsikels is that because the models are made to survive actual use and are thus good models, they can look unusually stubby in the preview renders. It's always something you'd never notice in practise, though. Yeah I've noticed you almost have to aim for a stubby look in the renders if you want the final product to be useable rather than just a display piece. As the model gets bigger this is predictably less of an issue but 28-35mm do require that exaggerated look in renders. Getting hooked by svelte renders is what netted me a sword blade so thin it was translucent.  IncredibleIgloo posted:Nah, he is unusually aggressive in multiple threads continuously. This isn't a one time thing. Ah yes not wholeheartedly accepting 3D printing as the be all and end all solution for any toy soldier problem is being "unusually aggressive".
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Jul 31, 2023 08:21
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Isn't that the same design choice you have with 6mm figures from places like Bacchus? i.e. overemphasis in some places for the sake of being readable at scale and/or robust enough for handling? I'm quite skeptical of the masts on these 1:2400 Canopus-class battleships surviving:  I am really after some advice, not specific to naval gaming but just in general with scale and measurements because woth my paint pen coming today I need to think about grid sizes for my ocean mat: Grand Fleets makes a big deal about translating real world statistics into game stats automatically - you can pick any naval gun and plug in the stats and it will return a weapon statline and appropriate point cost for it. As such, it uses real world gun ranges of multiples of thousands-of-yards as units. These are abstracted into game units of 'kyds': 2" (or one hex) is equal to 1000yds. It is expected that the board is roughly 3x5' played along the long axis, with a hex grid of approximately 30x20. The rules decline to mention an intended scale and I think that is almost completely arbitrary: Were you to model the ships at the same scale as the 2":1000yds, then the ship models would be 1:18,000 - or about the size of a grain of rice - so whatever size grid I use I'm going to be an order of magnitude out of true scale. I haven't come across any other games which use a 2" hex, so I thought I'd try some others. This is 1.25" using my IJN 1:2400 ships:  Here is 1.5" with both the 1:1800 HMS Dreadnought, the likely choice for future ship miniatures, and the IJN group:  This is 2" using my IJN 1:2400 ships:  This is 2" with the Dreadnought  Can anyone help me decide? My gut is telling me to go with the 2" hex since both ship scales look at home and technically it fits within the space I have available and the intent of the rules, but I've never seen any other game using hexes this big!
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Jul 31, 2023 09:13
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Southern Heel posted:Isn't that the same design choice you have with 6mm figures from places like Bacchus? i.e. overemphasis in some places for the sake of being readable at scale and/or robust enough for handling? Yeah for 6mm you can compare say, Bacchus and 2D6. 2D6 looks nicer and are more detailed than Bacchus, but Bacchus are built stronger. Adler is also usually nicer looking than Bacchus but less durable in my experience. IncredibleIgloo posted:Nah, he is unusually aggressive in multiple threads continuously. This isn't a one time thing. To be honest, I reacted to your post as being on the flippant/combative side. It's easy to write in a tone that is harsher than how you read it yourself. Just as feedback for your posting, as someone on the sideline, your tone was a bit on the jerk side. So you should not be surprise that you got bit back. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 10:27
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Southern Heel posted:Isn't that the same design choice you have with 6mm figures from places like Bacchus? i.e. overemphasis in some places for the sake of being readable at scale and/or robust enough for handling? Traditional sculptors learn about making sufficiently robust product pretty quickly, usually after the moldmaker complains. If you've transitioned to digital sculpting from that background then it's a lesson you will carry over. Sculptors coming from a purely digital background won't have that knowledge and "ok to print" isn't quite the same as "feasible to be painted/used". At the speed these sculptors release items I doubt a huge amount of testing goes into making sure the final product is functional. I almost never see any of these sculptor patreons advertise their actual printed models, only STLs so I wonder how many of the models are actually printed much less stress tested for viability. Regarding the cute battleships maybe snap off the masts and replace them with brass rod or paperclips? 3d print resin is probably the single worst material for doing those masts despite the detail you get. A better idea would be to print the crows nests and fit those onto a brass rod or paperclip mast.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:42
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At that scale staples might be the best bet for rigidity and strength.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:32
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Beerdeer posted:In Sharp Practice, is a Leader part of a unit or is he a separate model? Like the French Peninsular list has a Leader over a unit of 8 dragoons. Is that 9 models or 7 and a Sgt/Leader? 9 models
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Jul 31, 2023 13:29
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So I just got Blucher in the mail, with the Peninsular War cars set for it. But what would be a good ruleset that covered Swedish forces of the Napoleonic wars? One that is not a skirmish game.
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Jul 31, 2023 13:44
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Ataxerxes posted:So I just got Blucher in the mail, with the Peninsular War cars set for it. But what would be a good ruleset that covered Swedish forces of the Napoleonic wars? One that is not a skirmish game. i think lasalle has army lists for sweden and would fit the scale well, about a division a side (i don't think there were any battles of more than that?)
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Jul 31, 2023 13:48
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:i think lasalle has army lists for sweden and would fit the scale well, about a division a side (i don't think there were any battles of more than that?) Yup and you'll find it here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/63093b9d5b27bc44cd3e43bf/t/6332dad9740d555f479a1c93/1664277242821/Army-Maker-v1.22.pdf Good sources on Sweden, especially in English, are scarce. But I can look up stuff in Between Imperial Eagles for you, it seems to be super expensive abroad but I was able to pick it up here in Sweden for like 20 bucks. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 14:18
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Southern Heel posted:This is 2" with the Dreadnought I'd go with the 2" hexes. Battleships take up two hexes, sort of like the old Avalon Hill game Submarine. Smaller ships like Destroyers can probably fit in a single hex.
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Jul 31, 2023 15:14
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IncredibleIgloo posted:I think you have a really weird dislike for 3D printing and I couldn't figure out why until you said you had your own garage business, and now it all makes sense. Sorry dude, the times are changing and I can make better stuff in my garage. Z the IVth posted:Well you're a disingenuous little wanker aren't you? And this was an escalation. The two of you are making GBS threads up this thread with a slapfight about 3d printing and the folks reporting your posts are weary of it. Please chill your roll and just focus on the Historicals discussion, OK? Here's the 3d printing for the tabletop thread, which is where you should take extended deep discussions of 3d printing for the tabletop.
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Jul 31, 2023 17:44
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I must put my hand up and apologise for bringing it up, I didn’t realise there was a dedicated thread and I’m sorry for making GBS threads this one up. Three Majestic class pre-dreadnought battleships are in the paint shop to accompany the Canopus quartet. GF3 suggests that 400 points is a small battle, but I am convinced that’s because it is primarily oriented around World War I, where ships are easily over 100 points each, as opposed to the first years of the century, where they don’t go over 60. Particularly since all of the pre-ww1 battles in the rulebook which have full details are less than 200 points aside! Thank you for the thoughts on the hex grid, depending on how soon the Royal Navy ships are ready. I might do it before the next game. Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 18:13
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It's OK to discuss 3d printing in the context of historicals, like if someone's asking for advice on printing tiny ships or for sources of hussars in 10mm or whatever. Just, extended convo that is basically just about the technology and/or the industry should get ported to the dedicated thread and/or the industry thread.
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Jul 31, 2023 18:16
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lilljonas posted:Yup and you'll find it here: Thanks! I am Finnish and can read Finnish natively and Swedish rudimentarily, so I have access to some sources, but the rules that include Swedes were something I was lackin. How does Lasalle compare to Blucher? The thing I liked about Blucher is that it looks like units are not destroyed easily in a single turn unlike something like Warhammer. That combat takes time and is not resolved by the initial moments.
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Jul 31, 2023 22:43
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What are people's opinion of Tamiya 1/35 kits? I just kitbashed a flak 36/37 with a GW basilisk and was pretty underwhelmed by the tamiya kit (don't worry, the 30 year old basilisk kit was worse). Lots of tiny plastic rods, some broken before I even clipped it. Tons of flash and the mold lines were excessive because the molds appeared to be misaligned when it was injected, it wasn't a ton, but definitely a sizable fraction of a millimetre. I think I last bought a kit of theirs decades ago, but I remembered it fondly. I use a lot of tamiya hobby stuff, and always can count on quality, but this kit wasn't great. That said, the level of detail and accuracy is perfect. Maybe that is what matters most and some extra clean up is not a factor for people that want detail and accuracy. Was my experience par for the course, or did I just get unlucky?
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Jul 31, 2023 23:25
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I think you found something so rare that you might have been better off putting it on ebay.
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Aug 1, 2023 00:37
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haha ok that was kind of what I thought happened. I've always thought of them as the gold standard in hobby stuff. I looked at reviews and the only negatives I saw were people complaining they didn't have the swastikas in the kit, but I had swastika decals. I assume they clip those off the sheet if you are in a market with laws about them. I might convert another basilisk, I'll get the same kit again if so and will be able to compare. Also if I get another one I'll have enough shells and crates to start an ammo depot.
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Aug 1, 2023 01:02
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It's worth checking with the scale modelling thread if anyone has specific issues with the kit in question just in case, but it really doesn't sound super likely.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:16
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Scale modelling kit selection is a bloody minefield with so many rebadges under different brands - the Revell Cutty Sark is over 60 years old at this point, and will happily sit on a shelf next to brand new kits: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-05422-cutty-sark--975156 Back in the day I used to paw through White Dwarf/etc. and was always a bit taken aback when people used scale model components in their Golden Daemon entries - it was incongruous. I remember the GW Land Raider being very much inspired by the British Male WW1 tank, but when I saw one painted up as a Deathwing Terminator transport it just looked so strange. Same for the use of APC bits on a Rhino transport:  
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Aug 1, 2023 10:32
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Yeah I was going to link to scalemates as well, it's the IMDB of model kits. Tamiya is generally seen as one of the best makers when it comes to user friendliness and quality, though they still have a bunch of old molds that they sell. Generally if you pick something that's made this side of 2000, you should be fine. Scalemates is great since they have a history tree for the kit, so you can see if a "new" model is just an old one with a new box art and maybe new decals, or if it is really a new mold. I've mostly built their 1/48 stuff that are quite recent kits, and they've been great overall.
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Aug 1, 2023 11:53
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I found somewhere that the kit I built is roughly 50 years old, so that makes sense. It still made a fantastic conversion.
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Aug 1, 2023 11:59
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lilljonas posted:Yup and you'll find it here: I don't know the game, but it's lovely seeing those comments on game design. e: Haha, my friends have some 40K conversions of historical kit, might ask them for pics. Virtual Russian posted:I found somewhere that the kit I built is roughly 50 years old, so that makes sense. It still made a fantastic conversion. 
JcDent fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 12:07
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Southern Heel posted:Scale modelling kit selection is a bloody minefield with so many rebadges under different brands - the Revell Cutty Sark is over 60 years old at this point, and will happily sit on a shelf next to brand new kits: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-05422-cutty-sark--975156 I remember that Deathwing 'Land Raider' because the guy who made it had an interview in my first ever copy of White Dwarf. One of his other projects was cramming the contents of a Tamiya Bradley kit into a Chimera.
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Aug 1, 2023 13:24
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That was also my first copy of White Dwarf! Got it free with a paint set due to some promotion my local GW was running. Good times.
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Aug 1, 2023 13:30
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Honestly, grafting the top half of a Leman Russ onto that thing is genius.
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Aug 1, 2023 13:31
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The friend volunteered this deathstrike: https://www.coolminiornot.com/277626?browseid=15188376
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Aug 1, 2023 14:44
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Anyone here tried out the new plastics for Blood and Plunder? I remember about the two player starter set, and think it might be a good way to get some new players to try it out or expand my existing stuff. I have not kept up with the game after the first expansion book, but the next two books sound cool.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:20
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