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I rant about it every time it comes up but Finn, who broke Poe out of prison to help him steal a ship, should not be surprised that Poe can steal a ship.
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Aug 1, 2023 00:36
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You obviously haven't ranted about it enough because I don't remember it but you are god-damned right.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:15
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What is there that's actually good in TRoS? The only thing I can think of is that the New Republic outlawing the Sith language from being spoken is a funny beat, because that's the exact kind of stupid half-measure you'd expect from a government that got completely blindsided by the First Order. Yep, I think that's it. I don't even remember any of the music, which is always good. I have to assume that they did indeed get John Williams back, because I think I'd remember if they replaced him, but I could not hum you a single note of that score once the opening crawl music fades out.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:31
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The idea of them fighting and passing objects through the TLJ force Skype was kind of cool.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:41
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Exegol is a cool location, and more generally Palpatine having his own separate system of Sith assassins and cultists and whatnot feels appropriate (and fits with stuff from Legends). Rey handing the lightsaber to Ben through their Force connection is legitimately cool and one of the few parts that feels like it actually builds on something from The Last Jedi.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:42
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The little droid repair guy is pretty cute. And I like that we got Wedge again, although he could have been used better. Adam Driver played the face turn really well, but that's to his credit and his alone.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:43
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i thought the palpatine stuff was done well, yeah. even the star destroyers with big dumb lasers were in-character for palps so i'm not complaining, the space battle was stupid for other reasons but that wasn't really one of them. i dunno the sequel trilogy just feels hollow all around. TLJ luke was fun, palpatine was fun, adam driver managed to halfway establish an actual character for kylo ren, that's really about it. i don't think any of the new characters managed to feel like actual star wars characters instead of, idk, some kind of pastiche on the edge of "well THAT just happened" meaninglessness at worst, or just fan-film-ish at best. they were the same kind of thing as nu-trek - actors in costumes and roles meant to evoke previous films in the franchise but without the tone or gravitas or just like, a basic commitment to taking the fictional universe seriously instead of smashing action figures together Jazerus fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 03:11
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C-3PO's "death" was legit heartbreaking for a few seconds, even if I knew it was coming from the trailers, was basically the easiest nostalgia bait possible, was immediately undercut by being played for the only good laugh in the film, and was so predictably reversed that I was only surprised that R2-D2 had the backups handy.
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Aug 1, 2023 03:13
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I loved Adam Driver’s little shrug when he turned on the knights of Ren. Such a good bit of physical acting.
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Aug 1, 2023 03:22
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They got Wedge back for about ten seconds in another boring line a bunch of ships up and have them pound each other battle.
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Aug 1, 2023 03:28
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They put him in a drat gunner seat instead of a cockpit 
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Aug 1, 2023 03:48
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There's an evil space chimpanzee in a welding mask that puts Ben's helmet back together.
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Aug 1, 2023 04:04
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They fly now!? Is so dumb it's almost kinda funny
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Aug 1, 2023 04:09
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The C-3PO “death” and almost immediate backup almost would have been justified if it had established that R2 rebooted his prequel memories that Bail deleted in ROTS and Threepio got pissed off at what had been done to him. It’s funny to think back to the distance of 2019 when there was a brief attempt to make Threepio’s sacrifice in TROS a demonstration of what consent looks like, but I guess that was too dumb to be sustained even by the standards of Star Wars fandom. Wedge in TROS was also kind of funny because he shows up right after the character that the new EU spent years establishing as his stepson gets killed and he doesn’t care. I do think all the Palpatine stuff in TROS is fun, but that’s carried entirely by McDiarmid. I love his happy wave to the cultist crowd on Exegol after he’s rejuvenated. It’s also funny to me that Palpatine in TROS is the only person in the entire sequel trilogy to acknowledge that Vader actually was redeemed at the end of his life, when even Luke seems to have forgotten.
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Aug 1, 2023 04:18
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Rochallor posted:What is there that's actually good in TRoS? Here is my vague percentage good stuff for the saga: TPM 75% - Good with weak plot elements AotC 65% - Poor but some good core plot elements RotS 75% - Good but weak plot elements ANH 100% - Great ESB 100% - Great RotJ 95% - Great but re-treddy TFA 80% - Good but very re-treddy TLJ 80% - Good but sloppy plotting TRoS 65% - Like others have said, good bits include a decent payoff for Force Skyping, Palpatine has some good hamming, Exegol, Best of bad situation with Carrie, Babu, Ben was good for his small appearance, Han’s “ghost” was good thematically with his TFA dialogue. Points deducted for the saga for acting/scripting/plot/music etc.. Each has problem areas that might be good in theory, but left something to be desired. Teek fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 04:21
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, it's quite possible, even probable, that the stuff people ran into was LucasFilms purity police and not George himself. Like over on RPG.net a former WEG editor/writer talked about how West End Games ran into trouble about stuff like they wanted to call an early book Smuggler's Blues,* were sternly told no and Lucasfilms fought against the book because you can't make a book about crime - by which I mean it was a book of adventures for smuggling runs - despite there being, you know, smugglers since Star Wars started. This probably didn't take it all the way to George, but she said he did personally veto things, usually anything to do with what would have stuff around the Clone Wars (basically anything that would have contradicted the prequels). They'd get a big ol' 'NO - GL' on their notes some times. I think you see this sort of censorship from the 90's to now. The Power Rangers don't have missiles anymore, they shoot lasers. Anime Security Guards (and the ones in ET) don't have guns anymore, they have walkie Talkies. Even in comics, if a character does something that is seen as evil, the writers create a way for that not to have been the characters choice. Iron-Man pushing the Super Hero Registration Act and all that entailed (with a secret prison in an alternate dimention, and enslaving villains to act as a hit squad etc), got turned into a skrull who thought he was Iron Man doing it, also, Iron Man himself lost all of his memories and couldn't believe he did such an act.
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Aug 1, 2023 04:28
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Live Slug Reaction
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Aug 1, 2023 04:50
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Lord Hydronium posted:The Old Republic has a weird split where the smuggler storyline is on the side of the Republic while the bounty hunter storyline is on the side of the Sith, which always struck me as somewhat backwards. I partially blame Zahn for setting the precedent for this, but smugglers in Star Wars don't really do as much smuggling as you'd think, they're more like independent couriers or freelance space truckers. IIRC, originally the plan was that Bounty Hunters and Smugglers would both start off neutral and would chose a side as their story progressed. Not sure why that was dropped, but it meant we got the Imperial Agent story instead which is the best of the TOR classes by far.
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Aug 1, 2023 05:42
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Vinylshadow posted:They put him in a drat gunner seat instead of a cockpit That reminds me of a friend's funniest observation about the arc of Morpheus in The Matrix movies. "Dude went from Obi-Wan to Nien Nunb."
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Aug 1, 2023 14:38
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Vinylshadow posted:They put him in a drat gunner seat instead of a cockpit I found out recently that Max von Sydow's character in TFA was originally supposed to be Wedge, but Lawson wasn't interested in coming back because he didn't find the role interesting. That would have made a bit more sense, because maybe Luke would have left a hint to where he went with an old friend. And Lor San Tekka is just kind of a big nobody (in the movies, I know he's in the book Shadow of the Sith, and gets mentioned in the Poe Dameron comics, but like...c'mon).
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Aug 1, 2023 15:00
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Was Lor San Tekka meant to be Wedge? I know Lawson was approached to be Wedge in TFA but I thought it was just going to be him standing around the Resistance base like Ackbar. I know Tekka, as the Vicar, was a fairly early character in TFA’s development, at least after Abrams took over.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:07
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Chairman Capone posted:Was Lor San Tekka meant to be Wedge? I know Lawson was approached to be Wedge in TFA but I thought it was just going to be him standing around the Resistance base like Ackbar. I know Tekka, as the Vicar, was a fairly early character in TFA’s development, at least after Abrams took over. To be fair, I heard this from the Blank Check Podcast (their commentary episode for TFA), and they aren't always right, so I should have said to take it with a grain of salt. But it made sense when I heard it.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:09
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Do they even tell Lando in RoS that Hans dead? I honestly can't remember. I wanna say if it ever happens it's the 10second scene inside Landos parade tank or whatever.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:53
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The Lor San Tekka thing is just a rumor, but is plausible. We know that Denis Lawson was offered a role in Episode 7, but apparently turned it down because it wasn't big enough to justify trying to reschedule the other stuff he had going on at the time. The role could have been the guy with the map, or maybe it could have been one of the other Resistance guys - potentially he would have led the attack on Starkiller base in the draft where Poe died in the first act.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:57
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Robot Style posted:The Lor San Tekka thing is just a rumor, but is plausible. We know that Denis Lawson was offered a role in Episode 7, but apparently turned it down because it wasn't big enough to justify trying to reschedule the other stuff he had going on at the time. Hmm, that would also make sense. Sorry for my earlier post, as if it were a fact. I just heard it and thought, "Oh, yeah, of course."
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Aug 1, 2023 21:53
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It's still amazing to me they got the main cast back then didn't have them interact or even refer to each other in any meaningful way.
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Aug 1, 2023 22:35
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Hard to do that when you're stuck writing around a dead actor, an actor who begged to be killed off early and a third who died via space trolling
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Aug 1, 2023 22:47
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Animal Friend posted:It's still amazing to me they got the main cast back then didn't have them interact or even refer to each other in any meaningful way. Someone, I think it was JJ but I'm not sure, said that when they were writing TFA, they kept running into the problem that whenever they introduced Luke, he took over the story. Because how could he not? He's Luke god drat Skywalker. And they really wanted the new series to be about the new characters. Which makes sense. So they made the movie instead be about why Luke wasn't there. Which makes some sense. Especially when you look at the Legends books that couldn't stop focusing on Luke, Han, and Leia. How that worked out after TFA is a different story. And they probably should have had a plan for that. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 22:57
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There was a comic series focusing on a new case set far enough in the future that the older cast was dead but could appear as force ghosts, why not do that instead
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Aug 1, 2023 23:11
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Animal Friend posted:It's still amazing to me they got the main cast back then didn't have them interact or even refer to each other in any meaningful way. The Art of the Last Jedi book does mention that there were people at Lucasfilm who were really not happy at this. I think it's only a single sentence but to even be given that much space in such a regulated product speaks volumes.
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Aug 1, 2023 23:49
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It's kind of a weird complaint, but I guess since I've moved countries and get to see family and friends for a few hours maybe twice a year it makes a lot more sense.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:29
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What’s weird about people wishing that the stars of the original movies had scenes together for the sequels? For the record I also think it’s criminal that we never had an Anakin ghost interacting with any of his family. Or that Padme wasn’t even mentioned once, haha.
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Aug 2, 2023 03:00
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Not giving the Big Three a scene together might ironically be due to George Lucas. While he's definitely made comments regarding Disney not using his treatments for the sequels, there is a fair amount of them left in Epjsode 7's DNA. Because the studio was rushing the movie out, the art department started working based on Lucas' outlines, and some broad strokes stuff like Kylo killing Han, and Rey finding Luke in seclusion after his academy was destroyed, was carried over. Though in Lucas' version, "Rey" actually started training with Luke partway through Episode 7, so he might have actually been there when Han died Lucas' treatment. And as has been mentioned, Luke's appearance got pushed later and later in the script, until it became the very last thi g in the movie.
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Aug 2, 2023 03:03
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Chairman Capone posted:What’s weird about people wishing that the stars of the original movies had scenes together for the sequels?
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Aug 2, 2023 04:32
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The best scene in TFA is when Han and Leia meet again for the first time in like a decade. Their eyes lock, the camera cuts back and forth between the two of them as Ford and Fisher wordlessly convey the complexity and emotional fraughtness of this reunion... and then Threepio leans into the shot and excitedly gives a goofy little wave, breaking both their eye contact and all of the tension.
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Aug 2, 2023 05:18
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That Threepio gag is kind a perfect encapsulation of the movie for me. In the Original Trilogy, one of Threepio's legs was silver below the knee, which helped to ground him in the "used universe" aesthetic and imply a broader life history than the character gets in dialogue. But because a lot of people only saw the movie in the theaters when they were kids or on fuzzy VHS tapes, people didn't really start noticing it until much later (for example, action figures of the character only started including the silver leg as a standard feature when the DVDs were released in 2004). But JJ Abrams knew about the silver leg, and wanted to give Threepio a similarly mismatched limb in his movie. But the silver leg went largely unnoticed for 25 years, and he wanted people to know he knew about it... so he gave the character a bright red arm and had him Kramer into a scene just so he could turn to the camera and tell the audience about it. But because the movie is just a bunch of lucite-sealed childhood memories, you can't actually change any characters from how you remember them, so Threepio's red arm is gone in the last scene of the movie, and Abrams can prove his obscure Star Wars trivia cred while keeping all his action figures pristine for the next director to play with (minus the silver leg, because that didn't exist in childhood memories). Robot Style fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 08:03
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As loathe as I am to give JJ credit for anything, droids being of really standard appearence means that stuff like a protocol droid changing a bit of their casing and being mistaken for a completely different droid is pretty sensible world building.
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Aug 2, 2023 11:52
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Robot Style posted:That Threepio gag is kind a perfect encapsulation of the movie for me. In the Original Trilogy, one of Threepio's legs was silver below the knee, which helped to ground him in the "used universe" aesthetic and imply a broader life history than the character gets in dialogue. I thought I read somewhere that Anthony Daniels HATED the red arm bit and insisted that he have a normal arm in the last scene because of it. Fuckin Abrams.
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Aug 2, 2023 16:30
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Rochallor posted:What is there that's actually good in TRoS? The only thing I can think of is that the New Republic outlawing the Sith language from being spoken is a funny beat, because that's the exact kind of stupid half-measure you'd expect from a government that got completely blindsided by the First Order. I like TFA and TLJ, but TROS just kinda sucks. it shits on both all the good parts of TLJ and has none of the good parts of TFA. I like that palpatine has doom fleet and his dumb plan but its just shittier dark empire. banned from Starbucks posted:Do they even tell Lando in RoS that Hans dead? I honestly can't remember. I wanna say if it ever happens it's the 10second scene inside Landos parade tank or whatever. I kinda assume her heard about it from some friend or the grapevine. I do genuinly like that han and leia didnt work out. like they clearly love each other still but when their sun became darth Columbine, it broke them, she dived into doing good and fighting monsters and he kinda retreated into lovely smuggling work with crime gangs and monsters.
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Aug 2, 2023 18:11
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I like TFA and TLJ, but TROS just kinda sucks. it shits on both all the good parts of TLJ and has none of the good parts of TFA. I like that palpatine has doom fleet and his dumb plan but its just shittier dark empire. It's not just Dark Empire. It's Dark Empire meets Glove of Darth Vader! Dapper_Swindler posted:I kinda assume her heard about it from some friend or the grapevine. I do genuinly like that han and leia didnt work out. like they clearly love each other still but when their sun became darth Columbine, it broke them, she dived into doing good and fighting monsters and he kinda retreated into lovely smuggling work with crime gangs and monsters. The original intention of Han and Leia not working out wasn't that it was because of Ben going bad, but kind of the implication that Ben went bad at least partly because his parents weren't working out. Before Harrison Ford got injured in the plane crash, there was an alternate version of Rey's Force-flashback scene in TFA that was going to show some of this, including Han and Leia dropping young Ben off at the Jedi Temple for Luke to take care of because they couldn't handle him. (Lando's desert vehicle from TROS was originally designed for this alternate Force vision). This was also the alternate vision that was going to show us Luke's lightsaber flying through space and crashing to a planet's surface, and being used by a guy to fight the Knights of Ren. At least a bit of this is in the Bloodline novel, where even before Ben goes bad, Han and Leia are living apart and Leia's senator friends explicitly forget she's even married.
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Aug 2, 2023 18:22
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