(Thread IKs:
MokBa)
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I just remembered something that I completely glazed over originally: the Labyrinths each have an associated animal with a ruler over that animal (owls/boars/dragons), it shows up in the ruins at Typhlo and Faron. It's possible that instead of it being a Dragon God (since it doesnt seem implied that any dragon is the head dragon), that it's the Ruler of Dragons, and they're the one that actually split the mountain in two. Since the mountain is intact when Zelda goes back in time, it implies the Rulers may have still shaped the land during the 10,000 years between the Zonai and modern day. It also implies that their spirits are tied to the Zonai, since their trials are part of the Shrines of Light, but took action after the events Zelda participates in during all the time fuckery. Either that, or some Zonai off-screen splits a mountain in two and none of the sages ever say poo poo about it
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Aug 1, 2023 22:56
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 10:09 |
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bawk posted:10,000 years between the Zonai and modern day. Remember that 10,000 years ago is when the divine beasts, built by the Sheikah, fought against Calamity Ganon the first time. The Zonai were already long gone. Best I can tell, the order of events is like this: (I don't consider this timeline speculation because it only includes BotW and TotK, two games that are explicitly in the same timeline) 1.) A long time ago, the Zonai show up and create Hyrule. They're super advanced. 2.) Zelda shows up from the future and is like "there's a drat demon king in the future". 3.) The master sword shows up from the future and it's all hosed up. 4.) Ganon becomes the demon king and kills Sonia. Rauru sacrifices himself to lock the demon king under Hyrule castle. 5.) Zelda eats the time cheeto and turns into a dragon, so she can fix the master sword and give it to Link in a billion years or whatever. 6.) Way later, 10,000 years before BotW, another incarnation of Ganon (Calamity) shows up and the Sheikah fire their lasers at him. A different Zelda and Hero lock him away under the castle. Unbeknownst to them (and, realistically, the people who wrote the plot of BotW), that's also where Demon King Ganon was. 7.) 100 years before BotW, people want to be ready for Calamity Ganon's return, so they excavate the Divine Beasts. BotW Zelda tries real hard to activate her Goddess powers and eventually she does. 8.) Calamity Ganon shows up and takes control of all the beasts and the guardians, destroys most of Hyrule, and Zelda traps herself under Hyrule castle to keep Calamity Ganon there. 9.) Link was super hurt so he sleeps for 100 years. 10.) BotW happens. Calamity Ganon is defeated. 11.) TotK starts. Zelda and Link accidentally wake up Demon King Ganon. 12.) Zelda travels back in time. Link is transported to the floating Zonai islands so Rauru's spirit can teach him the cool Zonai tricks. Link sends the hosed up master sword back in time because that's something Zelda can do. 13.) Link figures out where the fixed master sword is (in Dragon Zelda's head). He gets it. 14.) Link kills Demon King Ganon. 15.) Dragon Zelda backwards timeifies herself to become normal Zelda again. Seaniqua fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 23:09
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Does the clock puzzle seen in the first Recall shrine ever appear again? It seems odd on a replay.
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Aug 2, 2023 00:04
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Seaniqua posted:Remember that 10,000 years ago is when the divine beasts, built by the Sheikah, fought against Calamity Ganon the first time. The Zonai were already long gone. Something to note about this timeline: The gap of time between Ganondorf and Rauru being sealed and the First Calamity is unknown, but might not be as long as you think. If we go with the assumption that the fursuit you get for completing all the Shrines is depicting the Hero from that Calamity tapestry, he sure as hell looks like a weird Hylian/Zonai hybrid. The only source of that is Rauru and Sonia, via some kid they had that's offscreen somewhere. The Hero's Aspect is, if not that specific person, then one of their descendants that's high enough up the family tree that they still have obvious Zonai traits that got diluted out of the Hyrule royal family by Zelda's time. This means the Calamity might have only been within a generation or two of the Imprisoning War, with the Guardians and Divine Beasts being the Shiekah reverse-engineering all the Zonai magitech that was still scattered around. Of course who knows how long "a generation or two" is in this context, Zonai might have really long lifespans and this hypothetical half-Zonai early King of Hyrule might have aged like one of those pre-Flood biblical patriarchs. Now something here ties into my own pet theory, that these two games represent a split in the timeline from the time travel in Skyward Sword. Specifically, where the heck is the Master Sword in Rauru's time? By all accounts it should exist and be around somewhere, but I think the only things they hear about it are Zelda talking about it with future-knowledge before its hosed up shard gets sent back to be fixed. The guy in the Calamity tapestry is definitely wielding it, so it definitely exists by THAT point. My guess? In Rauru's day It's still the Goddess Sword. Demise got stabbed to death by time-travelling Link, he never stayed sealed, so nobody ever had to go and dig up Hylia's old sword and do the big involved quest powering it up to re-defeat him. Fi might have just been sitting there in the floating Goddess Statue while all the Zonai Chariots of the Gods poo poo was happening down below, totally forgotten about because there's no Imprisoned to make it relevent. And when the Calamity happened, after all the Zonai were gone and the Sages' Secret Stones hidden away for the prophesized eschaton, the Hero of that era got desperate and grabbed the strongest anti-evil magic weapon he could find. That tapestry might depict the first time in that timeline someone wielded the Master Sword, after they went through their own version of basically Skyward Sword's quest to have that era's Zelda equivalent and the Shiekah properly forge it into the form we recognize today.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:08
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The above posts got me thinking about the overall Zelda timeline and whether/how BOTW/TOTK fit into it. It's all pretty stupid but here are my thoughts on it. In at least some of the previous iterations of the unified Zelda timeline, while there are multiple links and zeldas throughout history, there is only one Ganon(dorf), who was the Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time transformed by the power of the Triforce, and became immortal, being sealed in the Sacred Realm, Dark World, or Twilight Realm, depending. The Triforce of Power, granted to him by the goddesses themselves, makes him pretty much immortal. There are three timelines. In the Link Loses timeline, the Sages imprison the transformed Ganon and the whole Triforce in the Sacred Realm, which becomes the Dark World, and leads to the events of LTTP and LOZ 1 and 2. In the Link Wins, Child Timeline, Ganondorf never transforms, but is instead at some point in his mortal lifespan banished to the Twilight Realm, and that leads to Twilight Princess. In the Link Wins, Adult Timeline, Ganondorf un-transforms (as seen in the ending cinematic of OOT) and is sealed with his Triforce of Power in the Sacred Realm, but later breaks out, and the Sages defeat him by flooding the world, and hence you get the events of Wind Waker, followed by Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Apparently, according to BOTW's director, BOTW (and by extension TOTK) sits at the end of one of the three branches (OOT Link loses, OOT Link wins child timeline, OOT Link wins adult timeline), but doesn't specify which one. So in every game with a Ganon or Ganondorf, they're all the same single guy, born as a Gerudo in the era of Ocarina of Time. In Breath of the Wild, Calamity Ganon could've been any of those three timeline versions of that guy, once again resurfacing to gently caress poo poo up. But in TOTK, we've got a wrench in the works. There are two problems. The first is that the Zonai descending to found Hyrule (again?) is very hard to place in the timeline. And the second is that it seems to be that the Ganondorf that becomes the Demon King is again a Gerudo, but this time born in the era of the founding by Zonai king Rauru. Two possibilities for fitting it in, that I can see. In both of them, just as Link and Zelda are reincarnated over and over again, Ganondorf has been, as well, but there are only exactly 2 incarnations of Ganondorf (compared to the dozen or so reincarnations of Link and Zelda). Option 1: Because of certain things like e.g. the ruined Temple of Time on the Great Plateau being implied to be the same one as the Temple of Time in OOT, I think that the Zonai founding of Hyrule happened after the events of Skyward Sword but before Minish Cap. The people of Skyloft became the Hylians, but did not yet found Hyrule. An age later, the Zonai, who also lived in the sky but I guess never met the people of Skyloft, descend, and Rauru and Sonia found Hyrule, uniting the dispersed Hylian peoples. TOTK Ganondorf is alive at this time, and then the TOTK imprisoning war happens. Ganondorf is sealed so hard that he vanishes from the world for many ages. But somehow his spirit escapes, and gets reincarnated as OOT Ganondorf. This time he gets a hold of the Triforce of Power, and from then on is no longer being reincarnated, but instead is functionally immortal. Then all those other games happen, in their respective timelines. On one of those timelines, Ganondorf breaks free of the Sacred Realm/Dark World/Twilight Realm (don't know which one) one extra time to cause the Calamity from BOTW, and is defeated 10,000 years later. For the first time, this Ganondorf is utterly destroyed by Zelda's magic, his triforce immortality broken, and he is now ready to reincarnate again in the next age. But rather than reincarnate, his spirit returns to his previous body, and lies in wait to escape again - and does so. It's not clear why Rauru's imprisoning suddenly wears off while Zelda and Link are staring at his arm, but whatever. Main evidence against this theory is that there are no dragon gods during the events of other Zelda games. Option 2: The Zonai don't arrive at any time during the pre-BOTW timeline. After the events of whichever one of the three timelines, Hyrule as we know it collapses. Ages later (perhaps even hundreds of thousands of years later) it is re-founded by Zonai Rauru and Sonia. Just as apparently every few thousand years, some random peasant couple happens to decide to name their kid "Link" and he goes on to be a legendary hero, so too do Rauru and Sonia just happen to decide to call their kingdom Hyrule even though it has no political connection to the Hyrule that was in previous LOZ games. The references to e.g. the OOT Temple of Time are just references; it's not the same temple. It may not even be the same continent, for all we know. This time, TOTK Ganondorf is Ganondorf 2; what happened to the functionally immortal Ganondorf 1? Who knows? Perhaps his defeat in one of the previous games was truly a final end. In this version of events, I think that Calamity Ganon is like some sort of astral projection of TOTK Ganondorf that he is able to create despite his imprisonment, in a similar way to how he produces Phantom Ganons. Main evidence against this theory is the architectural connections between BOTW/TOTK's world and previous LOZs. Of course, there's also the alternate theory that TOTK and BOTW are on an entirely new timeline. In this timeline, again I think Calamity Ganon is a projection of TOTK Ganondorf. Would this timeline connected be the others at all? I don't think so; or if it is, it branches off early (pre-OOT). So in this theory there's always only one Ganondorf. The only real evidence against this theory is that it's boring.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:15
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A detail to throw in there messing everything up is that Fi talks to Zelda at a few points in BotW and TotK, on screen.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:21
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Yeah a common theory I've seen regarding what timeline it lands on is that it lands on all of them. At a convergence where they all meet up back into one timeline. I do not know how this works
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Aug 2, 2023 01:32
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:If you don't have a kid you may also have a drunk or high self that will do this to you. That guy sucks. duality
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Aug 2, 2023 01:43
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Does the clock puzzle seen in the first Recall shrine ever appear again? It seems odd on a replay. I think it appears one other time, don't remember exactly where.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:52
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Macaluso posted:Yeah a common theory I've seen regarding what timeline it lands on is that it lands on all of them. At a convergence where they all meet up back into one timeline. I do not know how this works Over enough time civilisation ends and the people from the heavens the Zoni show up and build a new civilization.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:42
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Captain Hygiene posted:I'll bet Link could do it though, just nom that thing down for a quarter heart. His stomach's just too dang powerful for a magic doodad (e) Blaziken386 posted:when im high i become a Gaming Savant who can fight bosses without taking any damage but also I forget to pick up the rare drops and kinda just aimlessly wander around with my horse
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Aug 2, 2023 03:10
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Blaziken386 posted:when im high i become a Gaming Savant who can fight bosses without taking any damage but also I forget to pick up the rare drops and kinda just aimlessly wander around with my horse dudes rock thanks to that guy for finishing AssCreed Valhalla for me
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Aug 2, 2023 04:34
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The Zonai were there all along in Ocarina of Time, in the castle, just offscreen. Ocarina Zelda (child of Rauru and Sonia) is just outside, peeking in with Ocarina Link, and Rauru doesn't want to confuse Ganon or TOTK Zelda so he never mentions his daughter to either of them.
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Aug 2, 2023 04:34
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I’m all for completely ignoring the timeline and outright contradicting it, as BotW/TotK did. But I’m still we’ve never seen the return of WW Ganon. He’s the only one that ever had a personality. TP and TotK Ganondorfs are just huge assholes all the time. Give us the game where you pull the Master Sword out of his head and he comes back to life. That’s all I ask of you Nintendo.
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Aug 2, 2023 05:21
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WW Ganondorf was also a huge rear end in a top hat too. Literally beats up two kids, then attempted to give himself a tragic backstory before trying (and failing) to beat up the same two kids again.
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Aug 2, 2023 05:27
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Windwaker Ganondorf wasn't not evil or remorseful per se but he seemed resigned to the fact that he wasn't capable of changing or being anything else. It was actually a rather complicated dynamic which is why it's stuck with people for all these years despite only being in one game. It's also why I don't really like the requests for Good Guy Ganondorf because that kind of feels like missing the point.
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Aug 2, 2023 05:34
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MokBa posted:I’m all for completely ignoring the timeline and outright contradicting it, as BotW/TotK did. But I’m still we’ve never seen the return of WW Ganon. He’s the only one that ever had a personality. TP and TotK Ganondorfs are just huge assholes all the time. I definitely wanna see the game where you're off doing regular hero stuff that doesnt involve ganondorf, find the master sword in the sacred grove, pull it out of the pedestal, and the ground opens up to reveal ganondorf's head directly under it.
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Aug 2, 2023 06:49
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I've finally gotten all of the energy wells on my belt to the maximum, and I think I have around 70% of the Depths mapped. And I also suddenly realized that I have completed almost none of the side quests or side adventures. I really should do some more of those. I've come to realize that my favorite new addition to the overworld are the actual caves. Now that they are in ToTK it really feels like they were the missing thing in BoTW that I didn't even realize were needed. The Depths are neat, and the Sky Islands are beautiful, but just the simple caves add a HUGE amount of mystery to the overworld.
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Aug 2, 2023 07:04
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DontMockMySmock posted:
I believe that Four Swords Adventures or something has a new Ganondorf, so this would be the third known one.
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Aug 2, 2023 13:02
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:\I've come to realize that my favorite new addition to the overworld are the actual caves. Now that they are in ToTK it really feels like they were the missing thing in BoTW that I didn't even realize were needed. The Depths are neat, and the Sky Islands are beautiful, but just the simple caves add a HUGE amount of mystery to the overworld. I liked the first dozen or so caves, then they started feeling like a chore. They almost all look exactly the same, have the same enemies, the same awful endless rock walls, and most of them have nothing of value inside.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:11
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Argue posted:The Zonai were there all along in Ocarina of Time, in the castle, just offscreen. Ocarina Zelda (child of Rauru and Sonia) is just outside, peeking in with Ocarina Link, and Rauru doesn't want to confuse Ganon or TOTK Zelda so he never mentions his daughter to either of them. Don't forget that the Zelda is Adventures of Link is the first Princess Zelda, daughter of the first king of Hyrule. You know, just to make trying to shove in another piece from a series of mostly unconnected games even harder. It bothered me way more than it should when Nintendo decided to canonize that incredibly stupid fan timeline that had been floating around.
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Aug 2, 2023 16:07
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Just Andi Now posted:Literally beats up two kids, The older I get the more I understand this.
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Aug 2, 2023 16:27
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Harriet Carker posted:I liked the first dozen or so caves, then they started feeling like a chore. They almost all look exactly the same, have the same enemies, the same awful endless rock walls, and most of them have nothing of value inside. I thought the same for a little while, but then they kept throwing new curveballs in over time that I enjoyed. They seem to have just enough variety that every time I thought I had seen all the different types, there would be one with a neat twist. Faron and Death Mountain were two of the last places I cleared out, and I'm glad i did those toward the end because there were some really cool moments to cap things off.
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Aug 2, 2023 17:24
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Speaking of caves I just did the one involving the 2 lizard lakes and I got the Vah Rudania helm but I already had one thanks to Amiibos. I guess I'll just sell it or something.
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Aug 2, 2023 18:07
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Any tips for finding caves other than the bubbelfrog sensor or the bunny? Occasionally I'll have that sensor go off, and I'm right on top of it, but the sensor goes to where the frog is, not the entrance of the cave, so it takes a while to find the cave, if I don't see the bunny anywhere to lead me to it.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:50
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Marluxia posted:Any tips for finding caves other than the bubbelfrog sensor or the bunny? Occasionally I'll have that sensor go off, and I'm right on top of it, but the sensor goes to where the frog is, not the entrance of the cave, so it takes a while to find the cave, if I don't see the bunny anywhere to lead me to it. Go to one of the pink cherry trees you find around the map and drop some sort of fruit in the little bowl at its base
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Aug 2, 2023 19:55
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Marluxia posted:Any tips for finding caves other than the bubbelfrog sensor or the bunny? Occasionally I'll have that sensor go off, and I'm right on top of it, but the sensor goes to where the frog is, not the entrance of the cave, so it takes a while to find the cave, if I don't see the bunny anywhere to lead me to it. Go to trees with cherry blossoms, drop some food in the bowl, and then all the cave entrances in that region are marked with pillars of light.
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Aug 2, 2023 20:04
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Asterite34 posted:Go to one of the pink cherry trees you find around the map and drop some sort of fruit in the little bowl at its base This helps a ton. if you don't know where the trees are and don't feel like exploring for them, you can find a map that has them all at the Outskirts Stable. When you find one, activate and go high up, a low-flying sky island is good for this. Use the scope on the right stick to put a waypoint on your map, then go to the map and replace it with a sticker. Do this for all the lights you can see to mark a ton of them at once. For any place that's super low down below everything else, you might have to manually search, because there's a few caves which didn't appear to have a light shine on them when I was searching.
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Aug 2, 2023 20:15
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Why can't you use the sensor looking for blupees? When you get near them they run towards the entrance.
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Aug 2, 2023 20:23
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Cojawfee posted:Why can't you use the sensor looking for blupees? When you get near them they run towards the entrance. I remember trying to take pictures of them, they don't seem to have compendium entries?
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Aug 2, 2023 20:28
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Marluxia posted:I remember trying to take pictures of them, they don't seem to have compendium entries? They do, #30 in Creatures.
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Aug 2, 2023 20:31
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Yeah, you have to be really careful because the range for the camera sucks rear end and they are skittish.
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Aug 2, 2023 20:32
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Cojawfee posted:Why can't you use the sensor looking for blupees? When you get near them they run towards the entrance. You totally can, and it does mostly work, but not every cave always has a blupee
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Aug 2, 2023 20:33
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Best done in the stealth suit
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Aug 2, 2023 20:39
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Dr. Cool Aids posted:Best done in the stealth suit most things in this game are!
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Aug 2, 2023 20:49
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Poque posted:most things in this game are! those that aren't are best done in the extremely fashionable hat
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Aug 2, 2023 20:53
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Cojawfee posted:Yeah, you have to be really careful because the range for the camera sucks rear end and they are skittish. Blupees are practically statues compared to those blasted Sparrows. Spent something like half an hour Sneaksuiting and trying to get close enough to get a good Compendium picture on Sand Sparrows before the flighty birds spotted me. Found a good site once, painstakingly got close, and just before I could get the identifier cartouche invoked reliably, got jumped by an Electric Lizalfos and a Electric Chuchu.
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Aug 2, 2023 21:15
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Agree a lot of the caves are samey but the game is so goddam huge I don't need every single thing to be an epic adventure. A quick in and out is fine (something something ur mom). Plus when you do stumble on one of the huge, more detailed caves it's a fun surprise.
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Aug 2, 2023 22:49
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Many caves entrances also have small flocks of birds circling overhead.
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Aug 2, 2023 22:52
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 10:09 |
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I'm mostly annoyed that I'm exploring cool places in the depths and finding nothing. I found this one spot that is an island on the surface. In the depths it's this massive column with an entrance and it's hollow inside and a big ledge in the middle. I climb my way up onto the ledge and there's literally nothing there. Considering how much stuff there is to find in the world in BOTW, this is kind of disappointing that there's nothing there to explore besides the very obvious markings on the map that indicate that it's a mine, or a bokoblin camp, or a boss fight. Maybe they just didn't realize that innocuous features on the surface can turn into really enticing locations in the depths and didn't populate them with anything. But that would have been a great place to put a chest or something.
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Aug 2, 2023 22:59
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