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pointlessone posted:I'm reading through Oathbringer right now, having read the previous two years ago, and I don't even remember anything more than the broadest strokes of the preface-pocalypse. It's half a book of world building that still hasn't really paid off more than a vague history lesson after the gap, thousands of literal pages later. Oathbringer was a banger from cover to cover imo
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Aug 1, 2023 20:30
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RC Cola posted:Oathbringer was a banger from cover to cover imo Goddamn right. I may be the only person that liked the 'dying breaths' epigraphs, huh?
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Aug 1, 2023 20:33
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Arrath posted:Goddamn right. I also liked them. It's neat to go back and find meaning as I gained context. And it's easy as gently caress to skim over if you hate it.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:33
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Mordiceius posted:Since pik_d has been sharing WoK in these chunks, I figure I might as well share my thoughts at the same points in the story - to allow some compare and contrast between me and pik_d. Shallan is frequently attempting to be a bit too clever. It's an intentional character trait; Sanderson's doing it on purpose. The Parsh are, in fact, nearly mute and extremely docile, slow-witted, don't seem to mind being slaves, and literally are not human. The characters aren't being racist (well, not in that regard), those things are objectively true. You may, by all means, continue to feel icky about it, but it's important to clarify that this isn't a direct 1:1 to Earth slavery, it's "what if all the self-justifying bullshit people told themselves to make slavery okay was true".
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Aug 1, 2023 20:39
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CapnAndy posted:Two things I'd like to note in response to your reactions, which I'm also enjoying: To your latter point - I think that the Parshmen are one of the most interesting aspects of these books so far and I'm very curious to see where that goes. Currently, I'm more curious about them than I am both Kaladin and Shallan.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:42
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RC Cola posted:I also liked them. It's neat to go back and find meaning as I gained context. And it's easy as gently caress to skim over if you hate it. The expanding understanding on rereads and having more context is what I like so much, same as the letter excerpts in the next section of the book.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:46
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Arrath posted:Goddamn right. OK, you inspired me to go back and look at the Part 1 epigraphs again and I found a few interesting things. WOK Chapter 4 and chapter 29 Chapter 4 “I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.” —Collected on the 3rd of Jesnan, 1172, 11 seconds pre-death. Subject was a Reshi chull trainer. Sample is of particular note. Chapter 29 That sounds exactly like the figures that Shallan drew. That doesn't really help me much with figuring out who/what they are though, just interesting that I now have two sightings of them. WOK Chapter 11 and chapter 26 Chapter 11 “Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.” —Collected: Chachanan, 1173, 84 seconds pre-death. Subject: a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Iriali descent. Chapter 26 Another mention of the number 16 that I sorta breezed past, but with the chapter 26 epigraph talking about "The Seventeenth Shard" as if it were an organization and not an actual shard, I feel like there might be 16 shards in the cosmere? I'm really stretching here, that 3 of 16 is talking about shards, but it's literally all I've got and I do not mind making wild theories.
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Aug 1, 2023 23:45
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pik_d posted:OK, you inspired me to go back and look at the Part 1 epigraphs again and I found a few interesting things. 
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Aug 2, 2023 00:06
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I liked the epigrams on first reading, but just because I'm the sort of guy who can go "oh, pretentious poo poo I don't understand, neat" and keep going without it leaving any mental fishhooks to tug me back. They're extremely interesting to go back to, though. Neither of you two read this bit, okay? It's got spoilers for the end of Words of Radiance. "All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds." That dude was prophesying Kaladin speaking his third oath! I never noticed that one before.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:02
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Sanderson is one of the kings of foreshadowing, every one of those bits means quite a bit and it just slowly gets sensible as time goes on. It takes a bit but with context everything is pretty important/prophetic.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:36
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Moelach is huffing those cave vapours again, everyone please ignore their eerie rambling, no need to give them any broams, they're an idiot prophesizing high on whatever the hell is in there.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:54
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TGG posted:Sanderson is one of the kings of foreshadowing, every one of those bits means quite a bit and it just slowly gets sensible as time goes on. It takes a bit but with context everything is pretty important/prophetic. For me personally, the foreshadowing works best when there is some context and grounding. I think Mistborn (The Final Empire particularly) does this best with both the epigraphs and the events in the story proper. The Way of Kings seems built a lot more for rereads (which lol expecting me to do a reread at this length). As soon as I hear the epigraph, I immediately forget it because, as mentioned, there is no context or grounding. So it is in one ear and out the other. If the epigraphs are just little bonus details sprinkled in for those that are doing rereads, then great. If I'm actually expected to take anything from them on my first time through, well that ain't happening.
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Aug 2, 2023 03:13
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Mordiceius posted:For me personally, the foreshadowing works best when there is some context and grounding. I think Mistborn (The Final Empire particularly) does this best with both the epigraphs and the events in the story proper. I've been collecting them in a document so I can quickly go back and look at them every so often.
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Aug 2, 2023 03:17
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TGG posted:Sanderson is one of the kings of foreshadowing, every one of those bits means quite a bit and it just slowly gets sensible as time goes on. It takes a bit but with context everything is pretty important/prophetic. Mordiceius posted:If the epigraphs are just little bonus details sprinkled in for those that are doing rereads, then great. If I'm actually expected to take anything from them on my first time through, well that ain't happening. And there's always another secret.
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Aug 2, 2023 03:28
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yeah with stormlight in particular sanderson is playing a very long game, there's a nontrivial amount of content from the first book we still don't know much about
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Aug 2, 2023 03:33
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WoK is one of my favorites because it's a bit confusing, it had that "new world smell" and things felt unknown and mysterious and so many things to untangle I didn't yet understand.
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Aug 2, 2023 10:28
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Finally got around to putting my Mistborn bookends together.
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Aug 2, 2023 18:54
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I love the epigraphs too. Did I understand anything about them in the first read? Almost never. But they add a lot of texture to the world and they're a constant reminder that there are more mysteries that we don't know poo poo about, but with some dedicated sleuthing a ton of information about the world and even clues for stuff that hasn't happened yet can be put together, and that's really cool. Like those couple that pik_d pointed out (I won't spoil anything) can be used to discover some very important details about what's going on in the world that you won't learn concretely in the main text for hundreds of pages, or even multiple books. And that's just a couple, there are dozens! Loving the reread reports, don't stop!
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Aug 2, 2023 19:37
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Yeah, I'm a big fan of the epigraphs, too. They may not work for adiobooks, but are great in the written versions imho.
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Aug 2, 2023 21:44
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Taffer posted:I love the epigraphs too. Did I understand anything about them in the first read? Almost never. But they add a lot of texture to the world and they're a constant reminder that there are more mysteries that we don't know poo poo about, but with some dedicated sleuthing a ton of information about the world and even clues for stuff that hasn't happened yet can be put together, and that's really cool. This! Mordiceius posted:If the epigraphs are just little bonus details sprinkled in for those that are doing rereads, then great. And this! Sanderson must have reread WOT a dozen times over the years, as did I and anyone else eagerly following that series. He knows that fans will reread Stormight. Leaving things for second-timers (and I’ll admit it, dense-rear end third and fourth timers like me) helps rereads stay fresh.
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Aug 3, 2023 00:14
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pik_d posted:Stormlight WoK chapters 8-11 & Part 1 Interludes Following the same path as pik_d. Time for my impressions on this part. pik_d - everything should be clean for you to read. Shallan seems pretty great so far. I think I just want more of her. I feel like what I've seen of her has been just such a small, focused moment and I want to see her over a longer time period. This is in contrast to Kaladin, who I feel like we've gotten a ton more time with but, at the moment, I find far less interesting. Let's talk about Kaladin - I do not find him interesting so far. And I think one of the things about that is the fact... he's 19. This is my own personal hang-up but like... dude is 19. Clearly there is some unknown and unresolved trauma with his brother (and his apparent death) as well as whatever happened in chapter 1, but I'm still struggling to merge the character as presented with the idea of him being a 19 year old. Also, like I'm not one that could ever imagine the life of a slave or anything like that as it seems horrific, though it just hurts my ability to care about Kaladin that he's been in this life for less than a year and just is so... blah. I also want to reiterate that I hope that there is a reveal that there is something special about Kaladin or some special protection going on because of all these times where he is the sole survivor and should have died. Mord's Interlude 1 - I recently played through Final Fantasy XVI and I was struck by how much overlap there is with ideas and presentation in The Final Empire as well as The Way of Kings. As of WoK End of Part 1 - Clive Rosfield is more interesting than Kaladin Stormblessed. Interlude chapters - Purelake was fun. It gave me slight Final Fantasy X Kilika vibes with being so water focused. 10/10 would live there. I didn't like the Nan Balat chapter. The Szeth chapter left me wanting more. The only issue with the interludes is that it is often dumping 10 more character names on me when I feel like there have already been far too many characters introduced. Side note - Sanderson's "curse words that aren't curse words" have, at this point, made me roll my eyes more than a couple times. "Storms!" just is not an effective curse word. Does anyone at any point say "Storm you!" because that feels about in line with things. Overall, general thoughts: Most of our time has been spent with Kaladin and Shallan and I feel like hardly anything has happened. Having just started Part 2, it seems like there aren't even any Shallan chapters in this part and she was the one I was more interested in of the two. I feel like, other than the action in the prologue, I've spend 6+ hours sitting around with people either talking, thinking, moping, or some combination thereof. Not just action, but magic. One of the core things I love about Sanderson books is the interesting magic. This book has had... hardly any so far. The most we got was in the prologue and since then... basically nothing. The book still doesn't have its hooks into me but I'm hoping it will soon. I'm curious to see how things play out. Looking at my audio book progress and I'm 7.5 hours in with 38 hours remaining. Which, overall is just over 16% done with the book, so in that sense, I'm barely scratching the surface. You could argue that "not much action and magic happens in the first 16% of other Sanderson books," but the counterpoint would be that 7.5 hours is a long time to feel like not much is happening. And that's kind of how I feel.
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Aug 4, 2023 19:51
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Since you're listening to the audio book, you maybe don't get this read out? I'm not sure, each Part starts with something like this with the names of the POV characters listed I'll be honest, you're right about Kaladin not feeling 19. He certainly feels a lot older, I'm actually curious now about how old Shallan is? Do we know?
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Aug 4, 2023 20:00
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Very minor spoilers about the cadences of Stormlight Every character is a "main" character of a book and book 2 is Shallan's vs Book 1s Kaladin. You will get more magic don't worry.
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Aug 4, 2023 20:01
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What, beings that manifest around strong emotions/natural phenoma, swords that cut through anything, giant gently caress off storms that recharge their light sources/money isn't magical enough?
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Aug 4, 2023 20:04
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pik_d posted:Since you're listening to the audio book, you maybe don't get this read out? I'm not sure, each Part starts with something like this with the names of the POV characters listed Yeah. They read that out - which is how I knew Shallan isn’t in part 2, which is disappointing. I think if Kaladin was presented even in his mid-20s or so, I could have adjusted easier. In his first appearance, he is this brave, battle hardened commander and tactical genius who has triumphed multiple times that is… 18 years old. I believe they mentioned Shallan being like 23 in her first appearance? But I could be wrong. Fezz posted:What, beings that manifest around strong emotions/natural phenoma, swords that cut through anything, giant gently caress off storms that recharge their light sources/money isn't magical enough? The only time we’ve seen the sword was in the prologue. The spren and high storms, at this point, are more setting than anything else. I want action magic. I want to see people do magical poo poo. More of Szeth’s prologue action. And less people just standing around talking/moping. Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Aug 4, 2023 |
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Aug 4, 2023 20:06
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Fun fact: the average age of a US soldier in Vietnam was 19
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Aug 4, 2023 20:08
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Roshar years are also different then our years much longer like 500 days, WoB(word of Brandon) is that Kaladin would be more like 23 in our years. Why he bothered to do this I have no idea.
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Aug 4, 2023 20:09
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Oh you want more magic? You sweet sweet summer child, hold on to your rear end.
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Aug 4, 2023 20:11
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socialsecurity posted:Roshar years are also different then our years much longer like 500 days, WoB(word of Brandon) is that Kaladin would be more like 23 in our years. Why he bothered to do this I have no idea. He's big on realism, even if it is just dumb fantasy realism. He likes everything to be able to be figured out if you just math hard enough. Edit: He likes to give turbonerds something to do between books: pik_d and Mordiceius don't follow this link: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5662-list-ages-of-stormlight-characters/#comment-90005 It's got Words of Radiance spoilers. Mordiceius posted:
Shallan is 19 in Earth years. Fezz fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Aug 4, 2023 |
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Aug 4, 2023 20:13
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Mordiceius posted:I think if Kaladin was presented even in his mid-20s or so, I could have adjusted easier. In his first appearance, he is this brave, battle hardened commander and tactical genius who has triumphed multiple times that is… 18 years old. I have some startling information on the age group of modern combatants! 23 is grizzled infantryman, by 30 you're the senior behind a desk, and you're retirement is in your 40s. And this is here, where we specifically pushed out the age to prevent all of our kids from dying. But also yeah 18 rosharan years is 19.8 earth years. Or 24.6 years depends if you're using the 500 days vs 365 days without adjusting for day length. And he had spent 4 years in Amaram's army when we met him as being regarded as a "brave, battle hardened [squad] commander"
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Aug 4, 2023 20:31
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Mordiceius posted:Not just action, but magic. One of the core things I love about Sanderson books is the interesting magic. This book has had... hardly any so far. The most we got was in the prologue and since then... basically nothing. Another reason I like WoK is how sparsely the magic was used. Really gave it a different feel.
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Aug 4, 2023 21:39
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I just started Warbreaker and this is probably one of the coolest magic systems I've seen before.
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Aug 5, 2023 00:22
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Nitrousoxide posted:this is probably one of the coolest magic systems I've seen before. I wish I could say the same for The Stormlight Archive!!! 
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Aug 5, 2023 00:24
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Mordiceius posted:I wish I could say the same for The Stormlight Archive!!! Hey now, Stormlights magic is fantastic, makes Mistborn looks like child's play.
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Aug 5, 2023 00:26
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socialsecurity posted:Hey now, Stormlights magic is fantastic, makes Mistborn looks like child's play. Maybe I’ll get to see some of it after another 50 hours of nothing happening.
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Aug 5, 2023 00:28
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Mordiceius posted:I wish I could say the same for The Stormlight Archive!!! There's a reason why many of us crave and enjoy the updates becaue if you stick with SA you will absolutely be awarded. Yes, it's a slow burn, but most "epic" fantasies are. I'm extremely jealous you get to experience this for the first time.
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Aug 5, 2023 00:33
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yeah but when do the mecha show up
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Aug 5, 2023 00:36
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mewse posted:yeah but when do the mecha show up mistborn era 3 hopefully
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Aug 5, 2023 00:39
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rafikki posted:mistborn era 3 hopefully at the very least stormlight era 2
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Aug 5, 2023 00:46
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scary ghost dog posted:at the very least stormlight era 2 I mean honestly, shardplate is almost there anyway
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Aug 5, 2023 00:49
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