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Then you have nicknames like Caligula which sound intimidating to modern ears but meant something like "little booties" at the time.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:24
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Or Cicero, which means chickpea/garbanzo bean.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:35
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Classical Latin also didn't have the /v/ phoneme at all so the badass "veni, vidi, vici" actually sounded more like something a little goblin would say while hopping around a big pot.
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Aug 1, 2023 20:59
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exquisite tea posted:Classical Latin also didn't have the /v/ phoneme at all so the badass "veni, vidi, vici" actually sounded more like something a little goblin would say while hopping around a big pot. it sounded like english?
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Aug 1, 2023 21:03
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It's thought to have been more like " waynee weedy weeky"
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Aug 1, 2023 21:07
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exquisite tea posted:Classical Latin also didn't have the /v/ phoneme at all so the badass "veni, vidi, vici" actually sounded more like something a little goblin would say while hopping around a big pot.
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Aug 1, 2023 21:07
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So Caesar sounded like Waluigi?
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Aug 1, 2023 21:19
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exquisite tea posted:Then you have nicknames like Caligula which sound intimidating to modern ears but meant something like "little booties" at the time. It meant little boots because he used to come to his father’s military camp in a little military costume as a child. The soldiers loved him and gave him the name. Shame the kid had kind of a hosed ip childhood that seems to have broken him
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Aug 1, 2023 22:27
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Marcade posted:So Caesar sounded like Waluigi? Well they're both italian
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Aug 1, 2023 22:29
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FreudianSlippers posted:Old Norse Nicknames. Well I guess I can add to my list of things I'd use a time machine for to be "find out why that guy has Giant Exploder for a nickname"
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Aug 1, 2023 22:57
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Alright, one last plug for Saga Thing - they actually have, in the episodes where they wrap up the saga they just finished discussing, a section for best nicknames, where they often go quite in depth, both on how they're translated, and the meaning of more cryptic ones like Bowl Rattler and Seal Testicle. Anyway, my favourite nickname fun fact: The affix Fitz- for surnames was introduced in the British isles via the French conquest, as an Anglicised version of the Old French 'filz', as another form of patronymic surnames. However, during the seventeenth century, there was a revival of the Fitz- affix, as a way to recognise illegitimate children. So if a person named Patrick had a child out of wedlock, the child would be given the surname Fitzpatrick.
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Aug 1, 2023 23:23
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poor fitzgibbons
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Aug 1, 2023 23:30
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ChubbyChecker posted:julia and juliia *iulia and iuliia
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Aug 2, 2023 09:06
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exquisite tea posted:Classical Latin also didn't have the /v/ phoneme at all so the badass "veni, vidi, vici" actually sounded more like something a little goblin would say while hopping around a big pot. They absolutely had a /v/ phoneme. You just don't know what a phoneme is. Anyway, they pronounced it as an approximant. (Most variants of English don't have it, which is why you see a lot of "THEY PRONOUNCED IT LINE WENI WIDI WICI GUISE!!!!11111elvatolvakatinkorva" poo poo on the Internet.)
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Aug 2, 2023 09:08
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A brother of one of my great-great grandmothers was known as "Skallesmækker-Larsen" (it means headbutter, but is cognate to skull-smacker). A brother of one of my great-great grandfathers was known as "The Terror of [Town]" (not his hometown, and while he was indeed a terror there is no evidence that he ever went to that town). These both from newspapers at the time (late 1800s).
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Aug 2, 2023 09:16
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“Plato” means “broad”. It was the philosopher’s wrestling nickname. This is the same etymological root as the beginning of my own screen name.
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Aug 2, 2023 09:43
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3D Megadoodoo posted:They absolutely had a /v/ phoneme. You just don't know what a phoneme is. Anyway, they pronounced it as an approximant. (Most variants of English don't have it, which is why you see a lot of "THEY PRONOUNCED IT LINE WENI WIDI WICI GUISE!!!!11111elvatolvakatinkorva" poo poo on the Internet.) that's not jakobson's definition of a phoneme per se, at least not what i remember of it. but you're not wrong, either. anyhow, i've long since left the field but iirc, there was a fair amount of evidence against the reading of word itinital "v" v as /v/ and instead as /w/. you can, for example, see confusions in how roman names were transcribed by foreigners and vice versa, and puns that no longer make sense to a reader assuming modern pronunciation, which show a distinct reading of that particular sound as /w/. however, in some words, v was pronounced more as a /v/, but, orthographically "v" stood in for a range of sounds that ancient speakers would understand as entirely different, depending on the position in the word. so it's not wrong to say that there was a /v/ sound, it's just that the orthography of latin isn't a 1-1 transcription of sounds. plus, like with all languages, phonetic shift happened, and you can start to see the gradual shift away from the orthography and pronunciation, and not just with variations of "v" but other letters as well, from old to middle to late latin, and then into church and medieval latin. so by late antiquity v is was most likely pronounced /v/ instead of /w/. sydney allen was still the authority in that field when i was an undergrad (c.f. his work, vox latina), but i'm not working on latin so i don't know if that remains the case. i'm also not a classical linguist, so take it with a grain of salt anywho. NoiseAnnoys has a new favorite as of 10:25 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 10:06
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Carthag Tuek posted:A brother of one of my great-great grandmothers was known as "Skallesmækker-Larsen" (it means headbutter, but is cognate to skull-smacker). One of my ancestors was called the Herring Throttler. As the story goes he was an officer and when one of his soldiers didn't do as he said he stuck a herring down his throat.
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Aug 2, 2023 10:31
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3D Megadoodoo posted:They absolutely had a /v/ phoneme. You just don't know what a phoneme is. Anyway, they pronounced it as an approximant. (Most variants of English don't have it, which is why you see a lot of "THEY PRONOUNCED IT LINE WENI WIDI WICI GUISE!!!!11111elvatolvakatinkorva" poo poo on the Internet.) What did it sound like then.
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Aug 2, 2023 12:11
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exquisite tea posted:What did it sound like then. V
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Aug 2, 2023 12:15
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Okay, let's hear it.
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Aug 2, 2023 12:17
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Alhazred posted:One of my ancestors was called the Herring Throttler. As the story goes he was an officer and when one of his soldiers didn't do as he said he stuck a herring down his throat.
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Aug 2, 2023 13:37
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Alhazred posted:One of my ancestors was called the Herring Throttler. As the story goes he was an officer and when one of his soldiers didn't do as he said he stuck a herring down his throat. Your ancestor invented the Danish language.
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Aug 2, 2023 13:43
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FreudianSlippers posted:Your ancestor invented the Danish language.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:15
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exquisite tea posted:Okay, let's hear it. Well, there's a really weird soundbyte here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_labiodental_approximant 3D Megadoodoo has a new favorite as of 14:20 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 14:18
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Plenty of other sources specify /w/ pretty exactly, which makes sense for a language that did not strongly differentiate V from U. If you are to think of "ueni, uidi, uici" then the /w/ sound is the pretty obvious pronunciation.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:26
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Woolie Wool posted:Plenty of other sources specify /w/ pretty exactly, which makes sense for a language that did not strongly differentiate V from U. If you are to think of "ueni, uidi, uici" then the /w/ sound is the pretty obvious pronunciation. also /w/ -> /v/ is a super common sound change that a lot of living and dead languages underwent. a lot fewer languages went /v/ to /w/.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:38
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NoiseAnnoys posted:also /w/ -> /v/ is a super common sound change that a lot of living and dead languages underwent. a lot fewer languages went /v/ to /w/. In fact, the letter F was in the first Greek alphabet as Wau, and pronounced /w/. It fell off due to most ancient Greek dialects not really using the sound but not before making it into Etruscan, where it did the /v/ shift and became the letter F in roman. And then later, the roman letter V split into U, V and W depending on which variation of the sound you were actually making.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:50
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Tenebrais posted:In fact, the letter F was in the first Greek alphabet as Wau, and pronounced /w/. It fell off due to most ancient Greek dialects not really using the sound but not before making it into Etruscan, where it did the /v/ shift and became the letter F in roman. And then later, the roman letter V split into U, V and W depending on which variation of the sound you were actually making. i didn't know that, but that makes sense, considering how limited the early alphabets were and how sound changes went. one of the fascinating things to me is how scribal or literary "misspellings" actually show the evolution of a language's phonetics as the spoken language diverges from the fossilized written one.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:18
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NoiseAnnoys posted:plus, like with all languages, phonetic shift happened, and you can start to see the gradual shift away from the orthography and pronunciation, and not just with variations of "v" but other letters as well, from old to middle to late latin, and then into church and medieval latin. so by late antiquity v is was most likely pronounced /v/ instead of /w/. By the fall of the western empire Romans were already making fun of Iberians for pronouncing it as /b/, which suggests that the common pronunciation wasn't far off by that point.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:35
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the holy poopacy posted:By the fall of the western empire Romans were already making fun of Iberians for pronouncing it as /b/, which suggests that the common pronunciation wasn't far off by that point. yeah, languages change fast, even when they're liturgical or constructed languages. people really forget that sometimes.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:41
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It's pronounced svord
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Aug 2, 2023 16:24
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so how is it pronounced hurry it's important the time portal won't be stable for long
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Aug 2, 2023 17:27
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Milo and POTUS posted:so how is it pronounced hurry it's important the time portal won't be stable for long It's pronounced "retired classics scholar punches known forums pet squarely in the dialectics and goddammit I'm here for it."
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Aug 2, 2023 18:01
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Well which is which. There's so much about history I have yet to learn
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Aug 2, 2023 18:09
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I brought my Drake posted:It's pronounced "retired classics scholar punches known forums pet squarely in the dialectics and goddammit I'm here for it." what
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Aug 2, 2023 20:07
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I'm neither retired nor violent  And what does Citizen Tayne have to do with anything?
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Aug 3, 2023 13:26
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I'm neither retired nor violent Legit thought I missed something in all the linguistic talk, but nope.  But here's some interesting history that's not about vowels! Last month, a group of archeologists found what might be a hidden gate underneath the ruins of Mitla. Now, Mitla is a ruin in Southern Mexico, and according to legend, it contains a vast underground labyrinth that connects it to the underworld. When the Spanish came, they went in, noped out, and had the whole thing closed off. Then, they build a cathedral on top. So, there actually appears to be a labyrinth down there. Sealed off, beneath a crypt, beneath a ruin, beneath a cathedral. I'm not saying it's Diablo, but drat this is straight up the plot of Diablo. EDIT: Or Pathways into Darkness, I guess A Worrying Warlock has a new favorite as of 14:30 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 14:25
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Sobatchja Morda posted:Legit thought I missed something in all the linguistic talk, but nope. It's fun that we're still finding out new stuff (even if it's completely mundane) about old stuff, as technology and poo poo get's better and/or smaller. Like the chutes in the OK Pyramid.
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Aug 3, 2023 14:31
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Maybe sealed off places are sealed for a reason?
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Aug 3, 2023 14:52
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