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Residency Evil posted:Are ADMs really going to be a thing on the Land Cruiser in 2024? It’s not possible to spec your own Toyota even, right? You’re essentially forced to buy what they get? Yes. Subaru is pretty much the exception in major NA-serving Asian car manufacturers that actually lets you factory order (and there's still some limitations post-Covid). Otherwise you're at the mercy of the dealership maybe being to ask for a configuration that maybe the factory will build and then the port distributor will slap on a thousand bucks+ of extra accessories.
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Aug 2, 2023 11:48
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darnon posted:Yes. Subaru is pretty much the exception in major NA-serving Asian car manufacturers that actually lets you factory order (and there's still some limitations post-Covid). Otherwise you're at the mercy of the dealership maybe being to ask for a configuration that maybe the factory will build and then the port distributor will slap on a thousand bucks+ of extra accessories. Gotcha. On the bright side It looks like Lexus does let you make custom orders. I guess we can either order a Lexus or stalk some Toyota forums to find our preferred Land Cruiser in some random dealership in Oregon that won’t charge ADM?
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Aug 2, 2023 13:25
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Oh my god. *LC boner intensifying
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Aug 2, 2023 13:33
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Residency Evil posted:Gotcha. On the bright side It looks like Lexus does let you make custom orders. Normally, but like Subaru supposedly Lexus is still mostly on pandemic shortage 'factory builds what it's going to build' allocations.
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Aug 2, 2023 13:37
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I just found out that Lexus has replaced the 3 row RX with a new model called the TX. https://www.caranddriver.com/lexus/tx
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Aug 2, 2023 14:43
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Residency Evil posted:Are ADMs really going to be a thing on the Land Cruiser in 2024? It’s not possible to spec your own Toyota even, right? You’re essentially forced to buy what they get? The Bronco had ADMs on it for more than two years straight, and this thing looks like a Bronco fighter from a brand that people actually like, and that has the lowest inventory and highest markups already. There's going to be ADMs on Land Cruisers through 2026 at least.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:53
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I feel like as long as people keep paying, mark ups are here to stay  Supposedly it's getting harder to get money though, so maybe when the idiots who go massively upside-down on cars can't get a loan this kind of stuff go away on most normie vehicles. quote:The Federal Reserve found the overall rejection rate for auto loans was 14.2 percent in June, the highest level since the Fed started collecting this kind of data in 2013.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:03
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Sab669 posted:I feel like as long as people keep paying, mark ups are here to stay Matt Farah makes a decent point that no matter how many buyers pass on a vehicle with ADM, if one person pays up, then the ADM was successful.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:16
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Mr. Apollo posted:I just found out that Lexus has replaced the 3 row RX with a new model called the TX. A Lexus Texas?
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Aug 2, 2023 15:19
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Full Collapse posted:Matt Farah makes a decent point that no matter how many buyers pass on a vehicle with ADM, if one person pays up, then the ADM was successful. Yes and no. If it sits long enough then eventually they'll realize, "If we sold 10 cars at sticker that would've been better than selling 1 car with a $10K markup" So if loans get harder to secure then there won't be a glut of idiots willing and able to pay those markups.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:28
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Every time the subject comes up I'm so very glad that dealer markups simply aren't a thing in Sweden (yet). On the other hand, dealer incentives and rebates are very rare (except things like 1% lower interest rate on your loan, things along those lines).
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Aug 2, 2023 15:33
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Nidhg00670000 posted:Every time the subject comes up I'm so very glad that dealer markups simply aren't a thing in Sweden (yet). On the other hand, dealer incentives and rebates are very rare (except things like 1% lower interest rate on your loan, things along those lines). The united states' dealer set-up is a blight and has absolutely no reason to exist. I should be able to grab a paper tag off the wall at Costco and pick up a car there. Especially as everything electrifies and homogenizes even more it becomes even less of a thing.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:35
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Sab669 posted:Yes and no. If it sits long enough then eventually they'll realize, "If we sold 10 cars at sticker that would've been better than selling 1 car with a $10K markup" With current Toyota production capacity, there's no chance of a dealer actually getting 10 cars to sell.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:43
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KakerMix posted:The united states' dealer set-up is a blight and has absolutely no reason to exist. I should be able to grab a paper tag off the wall at Costco and pick up a car there. At one point in the 90s Ford was playing with the idea of buying out its entire dealer network and running it in-house. They dropped the idea entirely because of franchise laws in some states making that literally impossible.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:48
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Q_res posted:At one point in the 90s Ford was playing with the idea of buying out its entire dealer network and running it in-house. They dropped the idea entirely because of franchise laws in some states making that literally impossible. Then Tesla showed that actually laws aren't real and you can just sell cars if you want, gently caress the dealers.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:53
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A lot of that goes back to the fact that the owners of these dealerships, especially in rural areas, are like their own little fiefdoms. They are usually some of the richest individuals in areas that have no big centers of commerce and they also have access to a large amount of borrowing power through their dealership network. Thus, they are the movers and shakers when it comes to local lobbying. They fund little league teams, donate vehicles to local police, set themselves up as the pillars of the community. So it's little surprise when the laws favor them.
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Aug 2, 2023 15:55
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Twerk from Home posted:The Bronco had ADMs on it for more than two years straight, and this thing looks like a Bronco fighter from a brand that people actually like, and that has the lowest inventory and highest markups already. I wonder how popular these are going to be versus the Bronco though? In any case, 2026 sounds about right for when my wife's wagon is going to need some sort of massive repair. 
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Aug 2, 2023 16:31
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Sab669 posted:Yes and no. If it sits long enough then eventually they'll realize, "If we sold 10 cars at sticker that would've been better than selling 1 car with a $10K markup" Tesla had to do a LOT of fighting against those laws, and still aren't 100% successful.
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Aug 2, 2023 16:59
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Fair enough RE: supply ilkhan posted:Tesla had to do a LOT of fighting against those laws, and still aren't 100% successful. I just saw the other day they're opening a new store in CT and it's only because it's on some Native land with a casino because of the state's dealership crap.
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Aug 2, 2023 17:56
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Can't wait for dealers to go away, not sure if it will happen in our lifetime. Tesla's strategy in IL is pretty simple/straightforward with our dumb laws. Just some strip mall store fronts (one in our central business district) with one of each model and some computers.
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Aug 2, 2023 18:14
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FBS posted:A Lexus Texas? With extra room in the rear, to boot.
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Aug 2, 2023 18:32
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Sab669 posted:Fair enough RE: supply It also has a lot to do with brands having less aggressive/profitable stairstep bonus's for the dealers. If the dealer gets a per car bonus of $500 from the automaker for hitting their sales target but due to supply, their target was only 50 cars, it becomes a lot less critical to sell everything you can since you only get another $25k as a dealership. When in normal times the target is 300 cars and the automaker was giving out $1000 per car, that $300k in bonus's changes what the GSM and dealer principle do with regards to cutting deals on new cars. Especially when that bonus isn't commissionable to the salesperson and they don't lose ~20% of it to said commissions. Generally the people who run successful dealerships aren't complete morons and they will run the cost/benefit of holding out for fewer high gross deals instead of pushing volume. When the automakers bonus program is attainable and outweighs what they would get trying to make big profit on individual cars they will start writing aggressive deals. This doesn't always factor into highly desirable limited edition cars, but for normal popular cars it absolutely does.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:05
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darnon posted:Yes. Subaru is pretty much the exception in major NA-serving Asian car manufacturers that actually lets you factory order (and there's still some limitations post-Covid). Otherwise you're at the mercy of the dealership maybe being to ask for a configuration that maybe the factory will build and then the port distributor will slap on a thousand bucks+ of extra accessories. It might vary dealer to dealer because my dad just put in an order for a white Grand Highlander XLE at our local dealership just this week.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:25
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BuckyDoneGun posted:lol, why would you bother with the V8 now unless your heart is set on a manual? (Or fleet servicing concerns) It's kinda like when they were selling the old 3.2 Ranger alongside the new 2l - some people just want the bigger engine for whatever reason. Australia/NZ (and curiously Japan) will get all three LandCruisers - Prado will be rebranded to 'LandCruiser 250' for Japan, not sure about for export. Hopefully we get the petrol hybrid as an option for the 250/Prado and they actually build enough of them that you can actually buy one eventually. Ideally city slickers wouldn't be buying these sort of vehicles at all, but the market has spoken so the best we can hope for fewer diesels
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Aug 2, 2023 19:28
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Anyone try the Volvo V90 Cross Country? No markups. Some deals to be had, in fact.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:41
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kill me now posted:It also has a lot to do with brands having less aggressive/profitable stairstep bonus's for the dealers. I remember a few years ago Dodge was wagging their fingers at dealerships for having unsold Hellcat halo cars sitting on the lot for months with huge ADMs attached. Dodge acknowledged that dealerships have a right to charge whatever ADM they feel like, but also argued that the entire point of making those cars was to have them get sold, driven and seen and build excitement for the brand. A car sitting in a showroom with an insulting $50k+ ADM isn't doing that, so they said that dealerships that got the allocation but aren't moving the car are going to lose their spot in the next big ticket allocation. Clearly it worked, and that's why you don't see the Demon 170's selling for $200k
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Aug 2, 2023 19:55
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Neo_Crimson posted:It might vary dealer to dealer because my dad just put in an order for a white Grand Highlander XLE at our local dealership just this week. It may, but that is also consistent with what I was told by a Toyota dealer recently: they can't do custom orders, but you can tell them what you want and they'll try to grab one that matches or gets close to what you want.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:57
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I'm not convinced the big automakers want to get away from the dealer model. The dealers insulate the auto manufacturers from a bunch of BS and deal with all the warranty and maintenance for the product.
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Aug 2, 2023 20:05
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canyoneer posted:I remember a few years ago Dodge was wagging their fingers at dealerships for having unsold Hellcat halo cars sitting on the lot for months with huge ADMs attached. Dodge acknowledged that dealerships have a right to charge whatever ADM they feel like, but also argued that the entire point of making those cars was to have them get sold, driven and seen and build excitement for the brand. A car sitting in a showroom with an insulting $50k+ ADM isn't doing that, so they said that dealerships that got the allocation but aren't moving the car are going to lose their spot in the next big ticket allocation. Future allocations is one of the other carrots that the automakers use to motivate dealers. Especially now when they can be selective about who they load up with what cars are produced. Dealers that turn around 90%+ of their inventory will get bigger allocations for the next batch of cars than ones that only turn ~50% because the automaker knows those cars will be sold quicker. You do see this work more with core models that can contribute to overall dealer volume more because sell more/get more is a big motivator. When its Dodge hellcat last call punisherflag 3000 1 of 25 edition and you were only ever going to get one and know it will sell regardless of the ADM then it probably wont be enough motivation. The other thing they can do to keep dealers from holding onto special cars for 10 months because of a huge ADM is make the floorplan more painful on the dealer. If you are losing all of the money you would make on the ADM to floorplan interest over those 10 months you will start to rethink your strategy real quick. 90 days is usually what the dealer has before floorplan interest starts to go into effect, so every day they have the car past that 90 day mark is money walking out the door.
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Aug 2, 2023 20:14
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BlackMK4 posted:Not the best, not the worst. Curious how the tow reviews go with them, was planning on folding and buying the new 4Runner if they tow alright but it seems this will also be an option. 6000lb towing based on Alex on autos video.
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Aug 2, 2023 21:52
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Russian Bear posted:6000lb towing based on Alex on autos video. Yeah, rating is one thing ... how it actually works / mileage is something else entirely, unfortunately. I tow a 2700lb car on a 1500lb trailer with an extra set of wheels and 35gal of fuel on it between 20 and 30 times a year.
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Aug 2, 2023 21:56
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dissss posted:Hopefully we get the petrol hybrid as an option for the 250/Prado and they actually build enough of them that you can actually buy one eventually. Related to the latter, I hope that drive train makes its way to the Hilux. I've long wondered why Toyota hasn't parts binned a hybrid Hilux yet, for all the city slickers.
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Aug 2, 2023 22:33
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I drive a brand new Rav-4 today as a rental. About 300 miles. Incredibly boring. Way too big for the engine they put it in. The touch screen is way too far away and you need to reach for it but your finger shakes due to road bumps so good luck getting accurate finger presses. On the plus side, besides the anemic engine, the Toyota quality could be felt in the ride, steering and breaks or so I thought. I don’t know who would want this car.
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Aug 2, 2023 23:03
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euphronius posted:I drive a brand new Rav-4 today as a rental. About 300 miles. Incredibly boring. Way too big for the engine they put it in. The touch screen is way too far away and you need to reach for it but your finger shakes due to road bumps so good luck getting accurate finger presses. Have you driven a CR-V? I like the CR-V quite a bit.
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Aug 2, 2023 23:15
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The rav4s styling was so bland and common I had a hard time seeing it. Coming out of sheetz or wherever it took me awhile to find the car in the parking lot because my eyes would slide over it and not focus on it .
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Aug 2, 2023 23:19
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BuckyDoneGun posted:Related to the latter, I hope that drive train makes its way to the Hilux. I've long wondered why Toyota hasn't parts binned a hybrid Hilux yet, for all the city slickers. According to this Australia isn't even getting the hybrid Prado. https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/australian-details-confirmed-for-2024-toyota-landcruiser-prado-popular-diesel-lives-on-but Dumb but not especially surprising.
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Aug 3, 2023 03:06
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BlackMK4 posted:Yeah, rating is one thing ... how it actually works / mileage is something else entirely, unfortunately. The new GX goes up to 8k lbs tow rating. Way overkill for me (I just need something to tow a ~2500lb boat and its trailer, and for any occasional towing much heavier than that I have a truck), but maybe an option, or an indication of what the limiting factor is on the LC being down at 6k?
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Aug 3, 2023 03:35
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Steve French posted:The new GX goes up to 8k lbs tow rating. Way overkill for me (I just need something to tow a ~2500lb boat and its trailer, and for any occasional towing much heavier than that I have a truck), but maybe an option, or an indication of what the limiting factor is on the LC being down at 6k? I think the new GX is a 6 cylinder right?
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Aug 3, 2023 03:53
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Residency Evil posted:I think the new GX is a 6 cylinder right? Yep, I imagine that's a good bit of the difference. The Luxury trims drop down to ~6800 lbs capacity. I'd be curious whether there's anything other than more weight causing that difference.
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Aug 3, 2023 03:56
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dissss posted:According to this Australia isn't even getting the hybrid Prado. Fucks sake.
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Aug 3, 2023 05:48
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