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Time's Orphan could have been a cool as poo poo origin of a civilization's mythology had they been willing to commit and had a couple more time orphans.
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Aug 2, 2023 14:38
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Atlas Hugged posted:Time's Orphan could have been a cool as poo poo origin of a civilization's mythology had they been willing to commit and had a couple more time orphans. I was putting together a list of DS9 episodes for a watch list I'm making and I was actually struck by how late in the series Time's Orphan actually is. It feels like it's a Season 1 or Season 2 epsidoes, but nope, Season 6 somehow! (We're not gonna watch Time's Orphan, O'Brien suffers far too much and that one just seems pointlessly cruel)
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Aug 2, 2023 16:16
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That pathetic, sad little alert klaxon playing on the Defiant’s bridge as she’s about to explode and her crew are abandoning ship is really something.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:17
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MrMojok posted:That pathetic, sad little alert klaxon playing on the Defiant’s bridge as she’s about to explode and her crew are abandoning ship is really something. You're really doing yourself a disservice by skipping around on DS9 instead of letting the whole thing unfold.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:31
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Oh, I am watching them in order as well. I’m most of the way through s1 on that watch. But BBCAmerica is showing it also, and they’ve worked their way up to the final season now, which I also saw back when it aired in ‘99.
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Aug 2, 2023 19:54
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TNG Season 3 begins! And it's all looking very good, the lighting is nice and colourful, there's new visuals in the opening (I love that they've not gotten rid of the odd planet rings/starfield quirk in the remaster) and the theme's had yet another re-recording and is sounding TIGHT, doing away with some slightly sloppy brass that occurs just prior to the Enterprise rising. Yes! It feels a bit enlivened. I didn't actually have all that much of a problem with S2's outsourced remastered effects, they looked fine, if occasionally a little overly slick and blue, but here back to CBS Digital, things are looking amazing. Evolution is a fairly good re-introduction of Beverly, we get Wesley cocking up and unleashing nanites into the ship, WHOOPS. We also get "we mean you no harm" twice and Ken Jenkins bugging his eyes out and chowing down on scenery. Decent enough stuff. But then The Ensigns of Command, which was BRILLIANT. Just a good rear end episode of Trek. The big bad (and very litigeous) Sheliak are on their way to wipe out a stubborn colony they lay claim to and Picard must sort it out, but there's some weird radiation stuff that means only Data can convince the colonists to actually leave. It's well written, it's got some nice thoughtful scenes like the bit with Troi and Picard and the mug of tea. The stuff with Data is brilliant, though the colonist leader having a dubbed voice is initially a bit strange. There's no downside to this one, I loved it and Picard's big solution at the end had me grinning and laughing. Strong start! Immediately confident on the writing end.
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Aug 3, 2023 01:31
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Lmao Chakotay just got spermjacked. Voyager is a weird show.
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Aug 3, 2023 04:27
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MuddyFunster posted:TNG Season 3 begins! And it's all looking very good, the lighting is nice and colourful, there's new visuals in the opening (I love that they've not gotten rid of the odd planet rings/starfield quirk in the remaster) I've always hated/loved how the ringed planet in season 3+ "pulls away" the much denser starfield in the new effects sequence to try and hide the wipe to the existing footage of the ship. Once you've seen it you'll never miss it again.  
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Aug 3, 2023 04:34
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:Lmao Chakotay just got spermjacked. Voyager is a weird show. There's an amazing bit about this in a later episode that almost makes all the fake Indian mystical bullshit worth it. "Acoocheymoya, I need the wisdom of my ancestors." "What troubles you, my son?" "I've discovered I have a son out of wedlock." "You must accept a man's responsibility to care for your child." "No you don't understand, the mother stole my DNA and impregnated herself without my knowledge." "...wtf"
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Aug 3, 2023 05:28
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"poo poo, man, good luck with that. Peace."
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Aug 3, 2023 06:34
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I do appreciate that they directly refer to it as rape.
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Aug 3, 2023 06:54
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Apparently the original ending of Basics was going to be that Seska survives but the baby dies, and I believe that they didn’t have the twist that made it onto screen that the baby wasn’t Chakotay’s
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Aug 3, 2023 13:57
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Went into Survivors generally a bit cold towards it. At one point, while still being able to follow what was going on, I was fiddling with my phone. The mystery of the anomalous crumbly olds wasn't grabbing me, I think I was bracing for a nonsense ending. Instead I got absolutely destroyed. When it's done really well the grief stricken lonely god angle really hits me hard. Who Mourns For Adonais and Charlie X are good TOS examples. But this was a darker, more shocking take, some horrific poo poo having happened before the Enterprise turned up. I think I started getting really invested the moment Picard starts suspecting something and acting upon it. The story really ramps up and that final revelation had me welling up a bit. Plus it does have the fantastically delivered line; "Mister Worf, let's raise our voice a little, fire phasers, just a warning shot." Beautiful stuff. An appropriate thematic reversal, Who Watches The Watchers, I've seen before, somehow more than once. It's the "The Picard!" one. It is the entire perception I've had of the show in my head for decades. Ray Wise tumbling over Vasquez rocks in his daft waistcoat. The silly wigs, the earth tones. The one lady, Nuria with the pronounced overbite. Riker and Troi going native. Farcical running back and forth. "The Picard will be pleased!" All of that. It's a constant figure of fun. But I'm older, I'm less cynical, maybe Survivors dropped my defenses enough. I gave it the benefit of the doubt and you know what? It's very sweet! It's a good episode! The whole bit where Picard is introducing Nuria to the Enterprise, struggling to get through to her, all of that is great stuff. I started welling up all over again during the scene in the sickbay. I really am turning into a giant softie.
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Aug 4, 2023 01:07
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Those are 2 great episodes for sure. Survivors definitely starts out really unassuming, perhaps should've tipped its hand a little earlier to get the viewer invested. But it is great how it suddenly gets real.
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Aug 4, 2023 02:04
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The Survivors is one I remember blowing my mind as a kid. That's one of a handful of episodes I distinctly remember watching when it first aired.
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Aug 4, 2023 02:20
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"The Survivors" is definitely a low-key gem. Just getting to the point of Picard having to say "we are not qualified to be your judges, we have no law to fit your crime" is an idea I hadn't really encountered anything like before in fiction. Also one of my favorite Worf moments: "Good tea... nice house."
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Aug 4, 2023 03:07
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disaster pastor posted:"The Survivors" is definitely a low-key gem. Just getting to the point of Picard having to say "we are not qualified to be your judges, we have no law to fit your crime" is an idea I hadn't really encountered anything like before in fiction. It’s a good one and I love that this unfathomably powerful being who can wipe out entire races and create entire realities with its mind is just some guy named Kevin.
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Aug 4, 2023 03:16
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I was gonna try and do all the tng films before commenting on them as a whole but I just paused nemesis sixteen minutes in to say holy gently caress this is bad
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Aug 4, 2023 15:30
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Those films are why I always stop at Undiscovered Country. I've seen them all once and never feel compelled to see them again, another thing that has coloured my opinion of TNG over the years. The real dread is that once I finally finish the show, I'm going to be compelled to see them again. The best scene I can recall from any of them, Picard showing that lady around the (ugly, shitass looking) Enterprise in First Contact, I realised last night, that's just recycled from Who Watches the Watchers! Except way worse!
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Aug 4, 2023 16:47
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I just watched what was on tv, so some how I ended up seeing Star Trek TMP, and then none of the other TOS movies, and all the TNG movies multiple times.
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Aug 4, 2023 17:35
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MuddyFunster posted:Those films are why I always stop at Undiscovered Country. I've seen them all once and never feel compelled to see them again, another thing that has coloured my opinion of TNG over the years. The real dread is that once I finally finish the show, I'm going to be compelled to see them again. But also better! Because the BZZT of the forcefield is out of sync with Lily's reaction! And New Zealand doesn't exist!
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Aug 4, 2023 17:38
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DesperateDan posted:I was gonna try and do all the tng films before commenting on them as a whole but I just paused nemesis sixteen minutes in to say holy gently caress this is bad every time i see it i think the opening scene of nemesis is great. the rest of the movie sucks rear end though they should have really done something with actual romulans, not the remans that we've never even heard of before and never see again
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Aug 4, 2023 17:43
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Boxturret posted:I just watched what was on tv, so some how I ended up seeing Star Trek TMP, and then none of the other TOS movies, and all the TNG movies multiple times. If you lived in Finland between 1993-2005 you would have gotten TNG, DS9 shown out of order, half of the Voyager, and TOS. Every summer it would be a coin toss if you would get TOS+movies, or first 3 seasons of TNG as summer reruns, put to a daily block of MacGyver, Knight Rider and A-Team. After that, random Kelvin or TNG movie every now and then, and nothing else ever on the free channels.
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Aug 4, 2023 17:52
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Kevin Uxbridge owns, that actor has one of the most iconic voices of any guest actor. Husshhnock
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Aug 4, 2023 19:20
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It's funny (and refreshing!) to see "hell yeah the ending of Survivors owns" after years of goons being all "uhhhhhh HEH what do you mean the feds don't have laws against genocide???  "
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Aug 4, 2023 19:56
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I think Picard might have been better served saying that they had no way to punish him rather than no law (because I assume there's no upper limit on total death toll for hypermurder)
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Aug 4, 2023 20:12
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He didn't really do a genocide in the sense that he just retconned them out of existence, or at least that's what I remember. But I guess there should be some temporal directives for that... Also he's pretty down with being punished, so just copping out saying he's too powerful would cheapen his remorse I think.
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Aug 4, 2023 20:38
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Yeah part of it is "how the hell do you pass sentence on a superbeing that, if provoked, could just will your entire civilization out of existence" but I think also a subtler part of it is that Uxbridge didn't do it consciously. He basically got really angry and wished the Husnock were all dead and then when he looked up he realized it happened. How do you judge the equivalent of murder:manslaughter::genocide:???BonHair posted:He didn't really do a genocide in the sense that he just retconned them out of existence, or at least that's what I remember. But I guess there should be some temporal directives for that... I don't think it was temporal in nature, he just willed them all dead/gone and it happened. Also for an (effectively) omnipotent being, who eschewed consciously doing violence to anything and had even 'set aside' his powers while he was in love with a mortal, what greater punishment is there than "sit here on this planet, by yourself, forever, and think about the evil you committed"? I mean I guess you could say "oh and you don't get to have your wife-facsimile to keep you company" but again A) how do you enforce that and B) isn't it better for everyone that he remain stable and never get angry again?
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Aug 4, 2023 22:21
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That leads to the question of what would the Federation do if one of its citizens, through some quirk of subspace physics or super-science biology or whatever, actually did commit a willing act of complete and total genocide? I mean, without being Douwd- or Q-level omnipotent they'd have to put a lot more effort and malice aforethought into it, but still. Assuming you even can, what justice can there ever be in response? It's almost like the entire philosophical/moral framework breaks down at the extreme edges.
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Aug 4, 2023 22:39
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Lemniscate Blue posted:That leads to the question of what would the Federation do if one of its citizens, through some quirk of subspace physics or super-science biology or whatever, actually did commit a willing act of complete and total genocide? I mean, without being Douwd- or Q-level omnipotent they'd have to put a lot more effort and malice aforethought into it, but still. Assuming you even can, what justice can there ever be in response? A complete quarantine of the section perhaps? They have done it before for reality-altering beings.
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Aug 4, 2023 22:45
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Der Kyhe posted:A complete quarantine of the section perhaps? They have done it before for reality-altering beings. The case of Talos IV is especially funny because later they established that the Talosians can project their illusions at least as far as Starbase 11, so there wasn't much point to only forbidding visits to the planet itself.
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Aug 4, 2023 23:06
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Powered Descent posted:The case of Talos IV is especially funny because later they established that the Talosians can project their illusions at least as far as Starbase 11, so there wasn't much point to only forbidding visits to the planet itself. Well, on the other hand Q had a real interest in the play and wanted to see how this plays out, so they would slap those upstarts noveau godlikes like flies, if they mess with their game of Q and Picard. "There is always a bigger fish", etc.
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Aug 4, 2023 23:18
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As is customary, at this point I have to remind everyone that what Kevin Uxbridge did wasn't genocide, it was extinction, an entire magnitude worse crime.Powered Descent posted:The case of Talos IV is especially funny because later they established that the Talosians can project their illusions at least as far as Starbase 11, so there wasn't much point to only forbidding visits to the planet itself. That isn't why Talos IV is forbidden, it's forbidden because it's possible to learn the Talosians' godlike power of illusion, as they themselves said.
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Aug 4, 2023 23:43
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disaster pastor posted:"The Survivors" is definitely a low-key gem. Just getting to the point of Picard having to say "we are not qualified to be your judges, we have no law to fit your crime" is an idea I hadn't really encountered anything like before in fiction. Imagine how this went down in the mirror universe tho "we are not qualified to be your judges, we have no law to fit your crime... because we think it's totally cool! Welcome aboard!
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Aug 5, 2023 00:01
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But the Mirror Universe Principle of "everything is exactly the opposite, but somehow worse" probably means he made more Husnock and they're all his slave army or some poo poo
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Aug 5, 2023 00:04
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It's not quite everything; the Halkans were still good.
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Aug 5, 2023 00:28
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The Bonding is alright by me. Feels like another thematic follow on from Survivors, the alien species of the week offering the young lad Jeremy (ROBOCOP 2 KID) his own little fantasy world where he can live with his recently dearly departed mum. Very low key, but thoughtful, engaging and all the Wesley stuff is good, especially the scene with Beverly. The moment where he confesses that he can barely remember his dad's face, while she, holding back tears, tells him she sometimes remembers all too well, LOVELY. Likewise, the scene of Data and Riker where they're discussing crew deaths, Tasha's in particular. It's emotional, but never really tips the line into wailing melodrama. A hushed, mournful little ep. Speaking of SAD, oh GEORDIE. Booby (hurhurr) Trap. Nice and tense, lot of technobabble, an exciting resolution, great model shots, I enjoyed it. Not much more to say about it except oh, GEORDIE.
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Aug 5, 2023 00:45
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McSpanky posted:That isn't why Talos IV is forbidden, it's forbidden because it's possible to learn the Talosians' godlike power of illusion, as they themselves said. Wait, really? I may need to rewatch The Cage/The Menagerie.
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Aug 5, 2023 02:05
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MuddyFunster posted:Speaking of SAD, oh GEORDIE. Booby (hurhurr) Trap. Nice and tense, lot of technobabble, an exciting resolution, great model shots, I enjoyed it. Not much more to say about it except oh, GEORDIE. Are you on a first watch through? Because if so without giving any spoilers there is later a great callback to this episode.
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Aug 5, 2023 02:58
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It's not a big spoiler, a later voyager episode mentions that on their ship the holodeck has a totally separate power supply incompatible with the rest of the ship, which is almost certainly because they designed the Voyager class a few years later, and Geordi complained about having his holoddeck power limited by thr ship's power supply in this episode.
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Aug 5, 2023 04:33
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