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syntaxfunction posted:For everyone who was flipping their poo poo because bungie didn't release a statement on it and so they assumed bungie was totally fine with everything, yeah, it is good. Destiny is fun, and really great general gameplay. But they -clearly- are sunsetting the game and it's frustrating they're letting the game die by 1000 cuts. When "We don't have the resources to make 1 armor set for free anymore" is openly admitted, it's a problem. This is their cash cow that is funding their other games.
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Aug 5, 2023 02:23
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the state of destiny would not be nearly as frustrating if it was not for the "live service" part completely overtaking the "game" part. the focus on disposable content to keep the player treadmill going sucks rear end, especially since it involves absolutely zero additions to the core experience outside of the equipment that was added (and even that is being reduced in value given that "making an armor set per expansion is just too hard guys") destiny is an incredible game more or less built entirely out of missed opportunities
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Aug 5, 2023 02:34
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Destiny is fun, and really great general gameplay. But they -clearly- are sunsetting the game and it's frustrating they're letting the game die by 1000 cuts. The only mode that's on life support is Gambit.
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Aug 5, 2023 02:35
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Mill Village posted:The only mode that's on life support is Gambit. And yet we're paying more, for less.
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Aug 5, 2023 02:47
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Mill Village posted:The only mode that's on life support is Gambit. ok that's cute and all but they straight up said that this is the best they can do and they're tired of doing it so they're going to dial things back because life is hard which: fair but also: Nelson Mandingo posted:And yet we're paying more, for less.
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Aug 5, 2023 02:50
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Gambit isn't on life support, its life support was just unplugged. Gating desirable things behind it was the life support
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Aug 5, 2023 02:52
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I don't think they're sunsetting the game, they're sunsetting all of the parts of the game that are a waste of time.
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Aug 5, 2023 03:02
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the point of games is to waste time
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Aug 5, 2023 03:11
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Welcome to Maintenance Mode, D2.
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Aug 5, 2023 03:14
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Nelson Mandingo posted:And yet we're paying more, for less. Thats true for everything.
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Aug 5, 2023 03:20
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i paid nothing for your posts and i'm still getting them
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Aug 5, 2023 03:41
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Kith posted:the state of destiny would not be nearly as frustrating if it was not for the "live service" part completely overtaking the "game" part. the focus on disposable content to keep the player treadmill going sucks rear end, especially since it involves absolutely zero additions to the core experience outside of the equipment that was added (and even that is being reduced in value given that "making an armor set per expansion is just too hard guys") Yeah this exactly. I've always been confused why they insisted on shipping seasonal story content at the same time a new expansion launches. I'm sure the playerbase wouldn't mind 3 seasonal stories - perhaps better spread out - instead of the current 4. It would probably suck for Bungie's engagement metrics though. They are still asking a lot from their core activities each season but that content is getting very stale. I haven't even launched a game of gambit for I think 2 seasons now because hey same maps and no decent loot to chase.
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Aug 5, 2023 03:54
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there's so much stuff they could do but it seems like marathon is just sucking up all the experienced talent and they thought they could just coast on D2 and iterate on stuff people already were getting frustrated with. i don't blame them for planning for the future past D2 but i also see why a lot of people are feeling really salty right now. People have always been annoyed or mad at whatever D2 is doing but I think right now really highlights how low bungie is gonna let it get
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Aug 5, 2023 04:35
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Frankly I think all the complaints boil down to the classic “lazy devs”. I’m not seeing any genius ideas in this thread to fix it either. Focus on disposable content - yeah except for the raids, dungeons and expansion activities Core content stale - yeah except for a bunch of pve refresh especially to strikes Added grind to everything - don’t know what this is about they’ve made it easier to get 95% of the stuff
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Aug 5, 2023 04:46
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well buddy you're in luck because i can explain what you're missingohhyeah posted:Focus on disposable content - yeah except for the raids, dungeons and expansion activities raids and dungeons are not what the majority of what the userbase plays. the majority plays strikes and canoodles around patrol zones looking at pretty skyboxes and dipping into lost sectors to find cool stuff. also, the expansion activities? the expansion activities that materialized the statistic that more content has been removed from destiny than has been added to it? those expansion activities? how about the leviathan raid? sorry, raids. or uhhhhhh scourge of the past! ohhyeah posted:Core content stale - yeah except for a bunch of pve refresh especially to strikes the "pve refresh" of lightfall added exactly one new enemy type. witch queen added three variants of existing enemies and one new weapon type. beyond light added one variant. if all of these were part of one expansion then it'd be a major shakeup of the pve sandbox but that's absolutely not the case. also there have been very few strikes added in the past few years that aren't just A) from destiny 1 or B) recycled battleground content. which, fine, battleground content is fun and all, but it's not like it's stuff we haven't seen before in some capacity. "new" content is stale if it's refreshed. ohhyeah posted:Added grind to everything - don’t know what this is about they’ve made it easier to get 95% of the stuff this is definitely true though. it's way easier to get gear than it used to be and good gear is significantly more RNG-resistant than it once was Kith fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Aug 5, 2023 |
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Aug 5, 2023 06:46
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Bungie should really just stop doing "okay we're going to say all the bad things so marketing is allowed to only ever talk about good things we're adding" post and hyping it up as "state of the game".
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Aug 5, 2023 08:19
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We’re definitely at the point where there’s significantly more PVE content available than what’s been vaulted.
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Aug 5, 2023 10:50
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forsaken is gone. warmind and curse are gone. all of the previous seasons' battlegrounds are gone except for the scant handful that returned as strikes. io, mars, and mercury are gone. the leviathan is gone. the spooky gunk leviathan is gone. leviathan raids are gone. tangled shore is gone. scourge is gone. titan is "here", for now, but not as a patrol zone. is the content we have better than what's been cut? yes. but in terms of volume, more content has been removed from Destiny 2 than has been permanently added. that's not something you can argue about, that's a measurable fact.
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Aug 5, 2023 13:13
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ohhyeah posted:Frankly I think all the complaints boil down to the classic “lazy devs”. I’m not seeing any genius ideas in this thread to fix it either. IMO it's less about the devs being lazy and more about the demands of capital to always be identifying new revenue streams and maintaining legacy revenue streams with no investment beyond what's required for the game to slide all the way down into Harvest where they just stop doing anything with it and let the playerbase atrophy until they can justify shutting the servers down. It's very likely that Bungie devs want to re-tune certain things but the big bosses aren't giving them the project hours to do so because corporate just wants the new revenue stream set up
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Aug 5, 2023 13:20
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The Eververse is doing great at least
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Aug 5, 2023 13:47
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RBA Starblade posted:The Eververse is doing great at least Even better then back when a couple of ornaments could pay for an entire exotic mission.
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Aug 5, 2023 13:56
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They've been doing this seasonal model for 3.5 years now and that means there have been 12 seasonal grind activities and a bunch of other miscellaneous things made with intentionally limited lifespans and it's a shame they'll never be available again. Bungie pretty obviously feels the same way or they wouldn't have made the exotic rotator and the vanguard ops battlegrounds, so maybe they'll find a way to slip in some more seasonal content later. Some of them are mutually exclusive since they depend on destination state but maybe they can get nodes in Legends or something Vex Invasion (activity) Vex Invasion (public event) Sundial Warmind bunkers Warsat launch Pyramid shard Cradle missions Wrathborne hunts Vex tower defense Vex network missions Awoken wayfinding Shattered realm Haunted leviathan destination Severed missions Ketchcrash Expedition Pirate lairs Out of all those some of them are pretty obvious misses that can stay in the vault, but I see a few I wouldn't mind revisiting
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Aug 5, 2023 14:01
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Overall Bungie has done a pretty good job keeping Destiny going and balancing casual and hard-core players. Is there any other precedent for AAA live service game? (GTA? Wow/FF?) Assuming the same amount of time/money, the biggest missed opportunities for me are: Not enough casual access to raid environments, etc. Too much effort spent on different currency systems that don’t pan out I get people that will never forgive them for cutting red war, forsaken, etc. but I’m sympathetic to the “no one was actually playing them” argument.
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Aug 5, 2023 14:57
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The argument of whether more content is in or has been removed from Destiny means very little to me when the content we're arguing for the dignity of is, like, the Curse of Osiris campaign and Vex Offensive and Reckoning. Even in the best case, stuff like Menagerie or Shattered Realm, they were fun, but they had worn out their welcome by the time they were removed. Would I have liked to possibly have seen them iterated on? I guess, but I dunno what that would even look like. Most of that stuff was just tolerable within the timeframe of its season because that's what it was designed to be. I would like to see all of the raids come back and I think they eventually will, even if it'll take a while, but even the good stuff that's been vaulted, like the Tangled Shore and the Forsaken campaign, I dunno, man. It's just not very relevant anymore. In a few months, all of the guys who died in that campaign will be alive again.
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Aug 5, 2023 15:21
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Speaking of which, they should definitely add Crota's End back in just so we can have yet another way to end Crota's scrotas in D2. You do it a lot now lol
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Aug 5, 2023 15:55
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MJeff posted:The argument of whether more content is in or has been removed from Destiny means very little to me when the content we're arguing for the dignity of is, like, the Curse of Osiris campaign and Vex Offensive and Reckoning. Even in the best case, stuff like Menagerie or Shattered Realm, they were fun, but they had worn out their welcome by the time they were removed. Would I have liked to possibly have seen them iterated on? I guess, but I dunno what that would even look like. Most of that stuff was just tolerable within the timeframe of its season because that's what it was designed to be. Most of the seasonal content felt very disposable, so its not something I really think about when it comes to vaulted PVE content. There was also some seasonal activities that took place in patrol areas and having all those at the same time would be a mess. Most of the matchmade ones were very similar so I don't think anything of value was lost there. In terms of more permanent content like patrols and campaigns, Bungie didn't update them as the gameplay systems evolved. The Red War was updated so it wouldn't reward exotic weapons and armor after certain missions. Forsaken's weapons were all sunset. The thing I miss the most was the Black Armory weapons, but I don't miss the repetitive activity that I had to run over 100 times and I still didn't get everything. The way the game's current seasonal activities keep track of what craftable weapons I'm missing means I have a clear idea of when I can stop engaging with that content.
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Aug 5, 2023 16:40
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I dunno, I’m not that down on the state of destiny but having new shaders only for silver and not being able to buy the Sony set for bright dust, while at the same time saying it’s too hard to make more armor sets leaves a bad taste and I don’t blame people for being upset. They already ask you to pay for dungeons, multiple paid events with tons of cosmetics that you only get by paying. On top of the seasons and an expansion pass, it’s no surprise that people are getting furious when bungie says they don’t have the resources for it. E: We also get like zero new strikes and if everyone is playing those? Why aren’t they making more?
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Aug 5, 2023 16:48
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Black Armory should return for craftable weapons. Blast Furnace, my beloved…
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Aug 5, 2023 16:51
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MJeff posted:The argument of whether more content is in or has been removed from Destiny means very little to me when the content we're arguing for the dignity of is, like, the Curse of Osiris campaign and Vex Offensive and Reckoning. Kith posted:the focus on disposable content to keep the player treadmill going sucks rear end lightfall is the first time the series has had a genuinely new standard enemy since Forsaken added the Scorn. it took five years to expand the roster with something that was not a major boss (savathun, rhulk), recycled boss (brigs), or simple variant of an existing unit (champions, lightbearer hive), and even then it's a miniboss that's rarely seen and shares mechanics with a major boss. Kith fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Aug 5, 2023 |
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Aug 5, 2023 16:53
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Kith posted:not arguing that, but just as a reminder this is the thrust of my complaint: I think that's a little uncharitable to Lightbearer Hive, they have completely unique behavior and attacks from their regular Hive counterparts (I guess Wizards are similar in that they're mostly just "float around and zap you with an arc attack" either way). They're at least equal to Tormentors in terms of how they affect combat differently. Also, uh, that's not true. They added Wyverns in Beyond Light. In general, though, I am sympathetic to the idea that Bungie designs activities with an intentional expiration date of about 3 months so we get a new one, we churn through it, it gets boring, it goes away, we get a new one, cycle goes on forever until we all die and that leads to the game feeling largely transitory and the stuff that IS permanent becoming stagnant and propped up by artifice (i.e. freshening up Vanguard Ops and Nightfalls by adding in sunset Battlegrounds instead of designing new strikes from the ground up), but I also...don't know what the solution to this is. I really don't think it's "make fewer disposable seasonal activities, make more campaigns, strikes and maps" because that's just a different kind of treadmill. Not better. Just different. Like, I guess, what's the foundation and how can they expand on it? From all the way back in Destiny 1, it's been, okay play this campaign, then wait 3-6 months for the next one to come out. At least this admittedly short-lived disposal content gives us something repeatedly to do in those in between points.
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Aug 5, 2023 17:18
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If Bungie released a massive expansion with an expansion and several seasons worth of content and said "okay, taking a break from seasonal treadmills" it'd be horrible for them, financially. Not to mention everyone who would burn through it all in a week But that's really because of the whole live service model. You can't slow down or take breaks because you need to be constantly releasing stuff. Instead you get to this point where the frequency is accelerating but the amount is proportionally (or not depending) smaller. Always content, never stop releasing content. It's why end of the seasons are always dead. There's nothing new. There's always going to be disposable content made and given, purely because they need to be doing something always, and the attention spans the whole system provides is short as hell. I'm not saying it's good, but it is what it is. Weirdly I think Borderlands 3 had the best post release content in terms of "seasons", as they amounted to some big DLCs and "vault cards" (basically passes) that you could swap to and from to progress whenever. But I don't think that's ever going to be compatible with this sort of game. Which is a bummer. If you slowed the cadence of content right down but made it bigger and better what would that do for the game? Would people actually stick around? I have no idea. I'm just wondering out loud.
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Aug 5, 2023 17:28
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syntaxfunction posted:If Bungie released a massive expansion with an expansion and several seasons worth of content and said "okay, taking a break from seasonal treadmills" it'd be horrible for them, financially. Not to mention everyone who would burn through it all in a week Taken King had a shitload of stuff in it and people were going "bro there's nothing to do" within like a month. 
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Aug 5, 2023 17:34
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MJeff posted:I think that's a little uncharitable to Lightbearer Hive, they have completely unique behavior and attacks from their regular Hive counterparts (I guess Wizards are similar in that they're mostly just "float around and zap you with an arc attack" either way). They're at least equal to Tormentors in terms of how they affect combat differently. Also, uh, that's not true. They added Wyverns in Beyond Light. legitimately forgot about wyverns tbh. wyverns are cool also the real long-term solution is just "more enemies". serious. they've got a good weapon pipeline, the exotic offerings are well-rounded, there's an excellent variety of builds available, but new units are extremely rare. i've been playing a lot of binding of isaac recently and there's really just a shitload of different kinds of gribblies and it's great. been playing through the borderlands series with a group of friends and it's the same story - there's a ton of different enemy categories and they all function very differently! more enemy types means more variety in both the short and long term and that poo poo is real important because the current treadmill focus is causing a slump way deeper than the usual end of season doldrums
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Aug 5, 2023 17:43
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Fair enough, I guess. I've been waiting for a faction of weird cube-y darkness boys for a while.
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Aug 5, 2023 17:45
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It is kind of anti-climactic to fight the witness and his army is just cabal, taken and hive. Shadow legion is barely different from regular cabal whereas I felt lucent hive changed it up a bit more.
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Aug 5, 2023 17:49
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I do like it in the sense that, we've been fighting all of these different factions for ten years and they all loving HATE EACH OTHER (besides Taken and Hive I guess) and they've been at each other's throats just as much and in some cases, moreso than they've been at ours for the entirety of the franchise, but the Witness showed up and managed to take the Taken and the Hive through Xivu Arath, the Fallen through Eramis, the Vex through the Sol Divisive, the Cabal through Calus and the Shadow Legion and the Scorn through Rhulk just taking advantage of the inherent power vacuum from the death of the Barons and Uldren (although isn't Fikrul still out there? What's he up to?) and just fold all of them under its influence. It's a good way of showing the Witness' strength and influence that it's now commanding all of these formerly disparate, different factions. But again, yeah, I would like to see more Witness-themed, Pyramid-themed, Darkness-themed, Resonant-themed enemies. And it is a little disappointing that the only real difference between Shadow Cabal and regular Cabal besides Tormentors is that they have a Resonant Splinter that gives them overshields.
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Aug 5, 2023 17:56
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Kith posted:all of the previous seasons' battlegrounds are gone except for the scant handful that returned as strikes. All of the battlegrounds are still around as strikes. They didn't remove any of them. All 4 chosen bgs, the 3 risen bgs, and the 3 heist bgs are all in the playlist. If you count these as strikes (and you should, they're basically strikes in all but name), we've had over twice as many strikes added as removed in vaulting.
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Aug 5, 2023 19:43
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I've long maintained that Strikes Playlist has problems that won't be solved by adding more Strikes It would be nice to also add (good) strikes, though. Most agree that the Battlegrounds were a downgrade to the playlist 
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Aug 5, 2023 19:47
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I guess the difference between strikes and battlegrounds is that strikes tend to have a story and context beyond "kill that guy" and also mostly take place in exclusive purpose-built areas, while battlegrounds typically don't do those things (there are exceptions, of course) I totally agree that if you're going to boil "content" all the way down to "number of activities" for the purpose of online arguments, they are both Vanguard Ops
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Aug 5, 2023 19:47
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I've long maintained that Strikes Playlist has problems that won't be solved by adding more Strikes oh, i agree for the vanguard strike playlist. I think it does improve the nightfall rotation because of how nightfalls are curated and every unique encounter gives a lot of texture to the gm difficulty. I was pointing out that Kith was just wrong here on this point. No battleground is vaulted.
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Aug 5, 2023 19:50
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