Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

rowkey bilbao: Jul 24, 2023

mobby_6kl posted:

New stamps! At least I think they're new, haven't seen em before.

https://postmark.ukrposhta.ua/

Curious about the little part in french on the bottom right. It says "premier jour" which is "first day". Why does it mean?

# ? Aug 5, 2023 11:31

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:44

rowkey bilbao: Jul 24, 2023

Sig Oil, mein monke

# ? Aug 5, 2023 11:33

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 3 days!)

rowkey bilbao posted:

Curious about the little part in french on the bottom right. It says "premier jour" which is "first day". Why does it mean?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_day_of_issue

# ? Aug 5, 2023 11:40

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

Samovar posted:

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. If Russia is still acting like Britain is in any way a world power after all the ways in which it has humiliated and degraded (and continues to do so) itself over the last few decades, that is indicative of just how perilous Russia's own position is.

They both think they are still playing the "Great Game" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game both sides relying on past glories. :rolleyes:

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:00

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

A Finnish newspaper interviewed Pekka Toveri, the former intelligence officer that often gets quoted in the Finnish news stories we translate. This time they talked about cluster munitions, and the hypocrisy of criticizing Ukraine for wanting them, when Russia has been using them to attack civilians for 9 years.

Original story: IS.fi
Journalist: Antti Virolainen

IS.fi posted:

Russia uses banned and controversial weapons against Ukrainians -- "All the time and widely".
According to Pekka Toveri Russia uses cluster munitions on civilian targets and "doesn't give a drat" about international treaties.

RUSSIA has been using cluster munitions in Ukraine as early as 2014 in the battles in Eastern Ukraine, says the former chief of military intelligence, representative Pekka Toveri says.

- During this latest invasion Russia has used at least six different types of cluster munitions.

Toveri emphasises that Russia is using cluster munitions on civilian targets.

- They have struck civilian targets. In April of last year, Totska artillery missiles, which have cluster tips, were used in the attack on Kramatorsk railway station, where they were evacuating civilians. 58 civilians were killed.

- Russia has used these cluster munitions widely and for a long time, Toveri says with a stern face. He says that Ukrainians have collected thousands of cluster munition canisters, which have remained behind as evidence near their homes.

Ukraine's emergency ministry's EOD squad removes the hull of a cluster munition in the streets of Kharkov on the 23rd of May 2022. Russian troops had fired it the previous night, and the 30 or so cluster munitions in its payload had blown up nearby. IS photographer Antti H�m�l�inen happened to be present for the cleanup.

According to the former intelligence general, the United States have a large suuply of cluster munitions. According to some estimates they have as many as five million 155mm artillery grenades, which contain cluster munitions.

- The United States don't actively use them, however, despite not being a party in the treaty to ban cluster munitions.

President Joe Biden announced this summer that the USA will hand over cluster munitions to Ukraine in their fight against Russian invaders.

Earlier, when Ukrainians requested these weapons from the USA, they justified the request with Russia's constant and regular use of the weapons against them. They want the same weapon, to reach the "equality" Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy has frequently mentioned.

- This is an effective weapon, because it has a large area of effect. One grenade can have the same effect of 10 traditional artillery shells.

- Ukraine have too few traditional artillery shells. If they get hundreds of thousands more from the USA, that will be a noticeable increase in the capability of Ukrainian artillery.

- Plus, they are effective against both Russian infantry and tank concentrations. We have given a more powerful weapon to Ukraine. We have crossed a line, and Russia will not like it.

So this is one of those red lines?

- Russia of course immediately drew a red line and claimed that this is some kind of new escalation. This is ridiculous, because they are using the same type of weapons all the time in Ukraine. Through the whole invasion.

Ukrainian soldier Igor Ovcharruck holds an unexploded cluster shell fired by Russians in the vicinity of Kharkov in October 2022.

Last weekend Ukraine's prosecutors announced that Russia had struck Donetsk with cluster munitions. Once again. The announcement over the much talked about and controversial cluster munitions was buried under other war news. The news that Russia is giving Ukraine cluster munitions got a lot of attention, though.

Many international human rights organizations have criticized Joe Biden's decision to give the munitions to Ukraine. Some of Biden's fellow Democrats also consider it a mistake.

- Cluster munitions are opposed, because bomblets can remain behind unexploded. From a couple of percentages to as many as tens of percentages, depending on the weapon, the terrain and the time of year, Toveri explains.

- Ukraine's point of view is that they are going to use the weapon in the front where Russians have already fired millions of shells. So there are already hundreds of thousands of unexploded shells in the area, as well as land mines which the Russians have carpeted the country with. Both are more difficult to defuse and remove than bomblets.

- From Ukraine's perspective they already have a problem for the civilian population. Them getting cluster munitions isn't going to make things that much worse.

Toveri emphasizes the difference between how a country defending itself from invaders uses the weapon, and how the invaders do.

- Ukrainians want to use them against Russian military forces at the front lines. They're not firing them into population centers. That's Russia.

Does the Finnish Defence Force have cluster munitions?

- We have 155mm shells with a cluster payload. We got them back in 1999 from Germany.

Will Finland use them in the possibility of being invaded by a foreign army?

- If we are attacked, then sure. We bought them to use them. As long as we're not party to a treaty banning them.

The international treaty banning cluster munitions (Convention on Cluster Munitions, CCM) is a 2010 treaty that bans the use and manufacture of cluster munitions, ie. bombs, artillery shells, rockets or missiles with sub-munitions within them.

Finland has stayed out of the treaty, explaining the decision with the critical role cluster munitions play in the Finnish Defence Force's battle plans.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:23

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

Finnish aerial recon has also revealed that Russia has been building extensive new networks of trenches and defences at the Eastern border. Another fun reminder that if the dice had fallen a bit differently, we might be currently under invasion.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:24

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

Toxic Mental posted:

Take off every sig

You know what air defense doing?! Move sig

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:28

Set: Oct 30, 2005

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

Finnish aerial recon has also revealed that Russia has been building extensive new networks of trenches and defences at the Eastern border. Another fun reminder that if the dice had fallen a bit differently, we might be currently under invasion.

Yes, but remember that we are being cringe and mentally ill if we expend any mental energy on this topic. In the end isn't that worse than being genocided?

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:41

mercenarynuker: Sep 10, 2008

Ukraine just realized you can turn sigs off so you don't have to see em

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:45

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

Set posted:

Yes, but remember that we are being cringe and mentally ill if we expend any mental energy on this topic. In the end isn't that worse than being genocided?

Yeah, stop fantasizing about the possibility to die in a war like our grandfathers did.

Or whatever the gently caress that one hot take last time was to tell us that Finland does not matter so shut up about it.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:48

Set: Oct 30, 2005

Der Kyhe posted:

Yeah, stop fantasizing about the possibility to die in a war like our grandfathers did.

Or whatever the gently caress that one hot take last time was to tell us that Finland does not matter so shut up about it.

Yeah, holy poo poo that was a impressively stupid take. :lol:

BTW thanks for sharing that article Shaman! I don't read a lot of Iltis so I had completely missed it. I remember even Yle had some really lovely takes about the topic earlier, so pointing out the hypocrisy here is important.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 12:57

numptyboy: Sep 6, 2004; somewhat pleasant

Just Another Lurker posted:

They both think they are still playing the "Great Game" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game both sides relying on past glories.

Eh? The UK isnt playing the 'great game', it is because it is in its own self interest to support democracies and it happened to be hawkish enough at the time to put some serious backing on it.
If it doesnt, then Putin keeps its bullshit going. UK foreign policy is not decided by some old 'great game' thinking from over a century ago.
Thats not how russia see's it either. Quoting 'great game' in respect to this conflict is ignorant coping BS from terminally online dumb trolls.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 13:43

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

numptyboy posted:

Eh? The UK isnt playing the 'great game', it is because it is in its own self interest to support democracies and it happened to be hawkish enough at the time to put some serious backing on it.
If it doesnt, then Putin keeps its bullshit going. UK foreign policy is not decided by some old 'great game' thinking from over a century ago.
Thats not how russia see's it either. Quoting 'great game' in respect to this conflict is ignorant coping BS from terminally online dumb trolls.

As a UK resident you'd better start telling that to the Tories running this dump. :rubby:

# ? Aug 5, 2023 13:56

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

Barudak posted:

Wait, the Zimmerman Telegram was real???

loving hell I grew up thinking my entire life it was an obvious British ploy that Americans fell for but it was real and Zimmerman just went out and admitted it?

Yes, Zimmerman really did think that asking a country in the middle of it's own civili war to invade its northernly neighbhor was a good idea. Zimmerman may not have been the smartest fella.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 14:09

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; THE HATE CRIME DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

A Festivus Miracle posted:

Yes, Zimmerman really did think that asking a country in the middle of it's own civili war to invade its northernly neighbhor was a good idea. Zimmerman may not have been the smartest fella.

I wanna see the alt history where he tried that poo poo with Canada, offering to help us out from the British Thumb and let us take territory lost in 1812(yes Inknow we didn't lose any).

Actually if it had succeeded it had a much bigger likelihood of winning the war, what with the outsized affect Canadian and other dominion troops had on the British side

Hell just throw a bone to Quebec separatists and promise them full recognition as a nation post war.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 14:13

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

Set posted:

BTW thanks for sharing that article Shaman! I don't read a lot of Iltis so I had completely missed it. I remember even Yle had some really lovely takes about the topic earlier, so pointing out the hypocrisy here is important.

Yeah I don't either, I just noticed the headline about new fortifications at the Eastern border today at the shops and went looking for that, and then found a surprisingly decent interview article.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 14:29

Vaginaface: Aug 26, 2013; HEY REI HEY REI,
do vaginaface!

I would also like to see Mexico invade Canada

# ? Aug 5, 2023 14:40

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

One thing I have been learning is the Russian ministry of defense is working on closing loopholes inside of their own conscription laws. And I think they're doing this in preparation for a new mobilization.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 14:46

Tigey: Apr 6, 2015

bunnyofdoom posted:

I wanna see the alt history where he tried that poo poo with Canada, offering to help us out from the British Thumb and let us take territory lost in 1812(yes Inknow we didn't lose any).

Actually if it had succeeded it had a much bigger likelihood of winning the war, what with the outsized affect Canadian and other dominion troops had on the British side

Hell just throw a bone to Quebec separatists and promise them full recognition as a nation post war.

Canada developed such a plan a few years later. In short it was:

1) Bumrush south with everything they have and cause as much chaos as possible
2) Retreat
3) ?
4) hope for a miracle

# ? Aug 5, 2023 14:55

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7263030785148603653

# ? Aug 5, 2023 15:26

RedSnapper: Nov 22, 2016

HonorableTB posted:

Ukraine enforcing sanctions:

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1687687339462787072?t=OpaYgT_6fk9gyKbfpCGK7Q&s=19

I know it's (probably) not gonna happen but even Total Bridge Death isn't as alluring as a vision of Russia getting succesfully blockaded by a country with no navy

# ? Aug 5, 2023 15:39

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

https://twitter.com/Vegasdave59/status/1687201663734665216?s=20

# ? Aug 5, 2023 15:42

pro starcraft loser: Jan 23, 2006; Stand back, this could get messy.

Alan Smithee posted:

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7263030785148603653

Showing off their [semi] self propelled artillery.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 15:49

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

RedSnapper posted:

I know it's (probably) not gonna happen but even Total Bridge Death isn't as alluring as a vision of Russia getting succesfully blockaded by a country with no navy

Obviously not going to a real blockade but if sanctioned supply ships keep getting hit, nobody will want to sail to rashka anyway so that's good enough

# ? Aug 5, 2023 15:51

the popes toes: Oct 10, 2004

Cheeky buggers or tit-for-tat? You decide!

Military engagements must be expected in these areas and ships with potential military cargo can be targeted according rules of engagement and the law of war. Aside from official ships of the Russian Navy, the Russian coast guard, police units and Russian border troops, this also applies to commercial ships heading to Russian sea ports, including oil tankers, cargo/container ships, utility ships etc. and even passenger ships when transporting military cargo and/or military personnel. Civilian ships near military ships and military installations such as port areas can be affected by collateral damage and need to keep distance to those military targets. (@Tendar)

# ? Aug 5, 2023 15:54

Zopotantor: Feb 24, 2013; ...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

Vaginaface posted:

I would also like to see Mexico invade Canada

Because they would have to cross the US twice to go there and go back?

It makes more sense with the Mongols invading Poland.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:06

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

pro starcraft loser posted:

Showing off their [semi] self propelled artillery.

Thanks for the explanation, Belarusian?

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:06

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1687745039168901120#m

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:33

zone: Dec 6, 2016

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:56

RDM: Apr 6, 2009; I LOVE FINLAND AND ESPECIALLY FINLAND'S MILITARY ALLIANCES, GOOGLE FINLAND WORLD WAR 2 FOR MORE INFORMATION SLAVA UKRANI

Does the US even have drone boats? They seem less useful than drone aircraft or regular missiles for basically everything except maybe loitering time.

Seems like what you throw together when you need to fight a navy or enforce a blockade but you don't have a navy of your own.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 16:59

Deus Ex Macklemore: Jul 2, 2004; Zelensky's Zealots

RDM posted:

Does the US even have drone boats? They seem less useful than drone aircraft or regular missiles for basically everything except maybe loitering time.

Seems like what you throw together when you need to fight a navy or enforce a blockade but you don't have a navy of your own.

Nice try, comrade

# ? Aug 5, 2023 17:09

pro starcraft loser: Jan 23, 2006; Stand back, this could get messy.

Just Another Lurker posted:

Thanks for the explanation, Belarusian?

It was a joke about how, in reality, self-propelled artillery means is an artillery piece that can drive itself around. Comparing that to the traditional shoddy equipment of Russia and Belarus, the artillery piece that came dislodged from the truck and traveling "on it's own" made it a semi self propelled artillery piece.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 17:14

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

pro starcraft loser posted:

It was a joke about how, in reality, self-propelled artillery means is an artillery piece that can drive itself around. Comparing that to the traditional shoddy equipment of Russia and Belarus, the artillery piece that came dislodged from the truck and traveling "on it's own" made it a semi self propelled artillery piece.

No worries, i was totally lost. :tipshat:

# ? Aug 5, 2023 17:17

pro starcraft loser: Jan 23, 2006; Stand back, this could get messy.

Just Another Lurker posted:

No worries, i was totally lost.

My bad, I thought if you were asking if I was Belarusian and excusing that.

Speaking of, Belarus and Russia have a NATO type agreement right? If Wagner fucks around with Poland, Poland can't hit Belarus territory without risk of a Russian "article 5" type deal, right?

pro starcraft loser fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Aug 5, 2023

# ? Aug 5, 2023 17:18

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

pro starcraft loser posted:

My bad, I thought if you were asking if I was Belarusian and excusing that.

Speaking of, Belarus and Russia have a NATO type agreement right? If Wagner fucks around with Poland, Poland can't hit Belarus territory without risk of a Russian "article 5" type deal, right?

Doesn't really matter because using Wagner troops to do anything against Poland or Lithuania would be considered an attack by Russia.

But yes, Belarus and Russia has actually even closer ties than typical NATO countries; Belarus is basically a state of the Russian Federation, but one that because of near-history reasons is nominally independent. Especially after Putin rescued Lukashenko in 2020 from being toppled by popular upprising.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 17:28

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Russia's kind of busy atm so I wouldn't worry about that too much

# ? Aug 5, 2023 17:29

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1687847062195335170
I think this is the first T-55 that got knocked out in combat. Seems like the cope cage worked against the RPG round too, before it was disabled.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:23

kemikalkadet: Sep 16, 2012

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1687745039168901120#m

It�s funny because they had a way to stop this and that was keeping the grain deal going. With the deal in place, the Black Sea was effectively neutralised as Ukrainian attacks on Russian ships would be against their own interests WRT keeping the grain shipments moving.

Now the deals off which enables Russia to ??? In exchange for having to constantly be alert to seaborne attacks. Ukraine doesn�t really have a Navy to risk but it has a lot of cheap drone boats. Russia could potentially launch attacks from its ships but opens them up to massive asymmetric risk which they seem hesitant to take after the Moskva. Them pulling out of the deal was a losing play on multiple levels.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:30

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

kemikalkadet posted:

It�s funny because they had a way to stop this and that was keeping the grain deal going. With the deal in place, the Black Sea was effectively neutralised as Ukrainian attacks on Russian ships would be against their own interests WRT keeping the grain shipments moving.

Now the deals off which enables Russia to ??? In exchange for having to constantly be alert to seaborne attacks. Ukraine doesn�t really have a Navy to risk but it has a lot of cheap drone boats. Russia could potentially launch attacks from its ships but opens them up to massive asymmetric risk which they seem hesitant to take after the Moskva. Them pulling out of the deal was a losing play on multiple levels.

Both Anders Nielsen and Perun pointed out that Russia basically got a blockade out of the deal without having to enforce it themselves with their rust buckets. (Before the shios got blown up). But monke got mad about his bridge and shot himself in the foot.

# ? Aug 5, 2023 18:49

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 00:44

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

A good thread on the tanker that got demilitarized

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1687720467400916992?t=qd3CSxyJzMk6Zy9dtC8uNw&s=19

# ? Aug 5, 2023 19:07

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