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Say you vote no, the voice gets struck down. What then? Won't the LNP just say 'Australia voted against it' anytime you try to propose something beyond the voice? 20 years of 'We had a referendum on that sort of thing, and Australians said they didn't want it'
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Aug 6, 2023 11:13
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Konomex posted:Say you vote no, the voice gets struck down. What then? Won't the LNP just say 'Australia voted against it' anytime you try to propose something beyond the voice? 20 years of 'We had a referendum on that sort of thing, and Australians said they didn't want it' spontaneous independence
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Aug 6, 2023 11:17
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Bald Stalin posted:Why do you think a small group of people picked by the colonizers, ruling class and their collaborators, at a meeting from which some walked away, to ask for something that won't help the first nations plight and instead set back the cause, should trump the correct analysis given by the BPU and ACP? It appears you're going with feelings and idealism, not thorough analysis of history and the material conditions. How do you see things playing out if the Voice is defeated?
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Aug 6, 2023 11:18
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Konomex posted:Say you vote no, the voice gets struck down. What then? Won't the LNP just say 'Australia voted against it' anytime you try to propose something beyond the voice? 20 years of 'We had a referendum on that sort of thing, and Australians said they didn't want it' this isnt directed at me and im voting yes because i genuinely believe that its a tiny pitiful step in the right direction of incremential change that is required to give indigenous people some semblence of actual agency in directing the future of the colony but for the record this idea that the future of an actual treaty and self actualization hinges on a voice to parliament is dramatically underestimating both the motivation and determination of the black people fighting for more than a voice
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Aug 6, 2023 12:24
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remember: better things are not possible, so why even try
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Aug 6, 2023 12:35
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Like a lot of people I was eh on the voice til I saw all the worst people in the country furiously frothing against it.
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Aug 6, 2023 12:45
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If no wins it's a clear demonstration that helping aboriginal people is not something you should bother with too much in Australian electoral politics. I imagine that means nothing will happen harder.
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Aug 6, 2023 12:46
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Bald Stalin posted:How?
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Aug 6, 2023 15:38
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Outside of my own class bubble, I think the issue is that people probably overwhelmingly agree to some kind of constitutional recognition, but aren't on board with something beyond lip service. I don't think the Yes campaign has done a great job, sure, you can point to the whole "well the specific look of the voice comes after" but this is a specific weakness of Yes that the No campaign just does not have. No has been able to build out what those future states look like, even if it's bullshit and contradictory but people want that kind of certainty.
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Aug 6, 2023 21:27
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Recoome posted:Outside of my own class bubble, I think the issue is that people probably overwhelmingly agree to some kind of constitutional recognition, but aren't on board with something beyond lip service. I don't think so https://twitter.com/KosSamaras/status/1687959553315590144?t=oAbHxvC099_tJc2ugxpwlw&s=19
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Aug 6, 2023 22:08
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honestly shitcan it at this point. before it becomes incredibly obvious that it's not gonna get up. we're looking at a full 30 year gap between republican referendums. this will be dead for as least as long if it's a no.
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Aug 7, 2023 00:18
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Avoid Action Albo taking action? Unlikely
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Aug 7, 2023 00:30
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trunkh posted:Avoid Action Albo taking action? Unlikely he isn't even going to commit to treaty if the voice passes lol
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Aug 7, 2023 01:17
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“We tried, we really did, but those mean old out of touch latte sipping greenie lefties wouldn’t let us!” -Albo, probably
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Aug 7, 2023 01:22
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can we start accusing albo of calling for a referendum too early to ensure it will fail yet? also JBP posted:I don't think so Imo having no option for undecided, the forced choice, is going to skew the undecided responders towards no, but that is my gut feeling of people preferring a status quo not backed by any evidence or proof whatsoever e: i.e. a forced choice poll would likely skew no and thus would likely be useful to someone wanting to say "look at how many people already say no! wowzers"
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Aug 7, 2023 01:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Like a lot of people I was eh on the voice til I saw all the worst people in the country furiously frothing against it. As long as you tell people its a progressive no, it's different. Write in "progressive" above the No on the ballot and theyll have to count the votes as Yes/No/Progressive No. Non Compos Mentis posted:remember: better things are not possible, so why even try If the question put was in line with the progressive no position, would you vote yes or would you want to have even better wording and vote no because things can always be better. EvilElmo fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 02:50
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EvilElmo posted:As long as you tell people its a progressive no, it's different. Write in "progressive" above the No on the ballot and theyll have to count the votes as Yes/No/Progressive No. This is basically my view as well. It's better that we get what we can at the moment and push for more, rather than letting this say to First Nations people "nah fuckya" and shut this down for 30 more years. There are fair reasons to vote no for this, and if the choice was between an advisory body and a body with real power I would absolutely vote for the body with real power. But the choice is between advisory body and nothing. EDIT: Given how the no campaign is running on "<plural slur> WILL CONTROL THE WHOLE GOVERNMENT" maybe they should have put it up as a body with real power, but lol if anyone imagines that ALP actually wants that, then they might be forced to do something.
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Aug 7, 2023 02:59
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Business is dropping support for it because they don't want to publicly back a loser. This is way less popular than gay marriage.
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Aug 7, 2023 03:32
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the voice is an op so they can collect data on which demographics may be a future threat to the white supremacist colonial state
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Aug 7, 2023 04:02
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I’m confused as to how the yes vote can be leading among people who voted for labor and the greens but trailing overall, given the outcome of the last election.
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Aug 7, 2023 04:40
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trunkh posted:Avoid Action Albo taking action? Unlikely Is not doing a vote more action than doing a vote?
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Aug 7, 2023 04:40
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The Lord Bude posted:I’m confused as to how the yes vote can be leading among people who voted for labor and the greens but trailing overall, given the outcome of the last election. It is overwhelmingly unpopular amongst people that voted for the liberals and only slightly more popular for people that voted for labor and the greens. E: Ok its overwhelmingly popular for those that voted Green.
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Aug 7, 2023 04:42
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JBP posted:Business is dropping support for it because they don't want to publicly back a loser. This is way less popular than gay marriage. Well maybe support for yes will bounce back then. Nobody wants to support a cause Coles and AFL are proudly supporting.
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Aug 7, 2023 04:55
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Pleasant Friend posted:Well maybe support for yes will bounce back then. Nobody wants to support a cause Coles and AFL are proudly supporting. Fresh in our memoriesTM
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Aug 7, 2023 05:36
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Yeah keeping in mind that the Liberals absolutely did not want a Republic and served up a dogshit option, it's amazing how similarly Labor is doing a bad job on the Yes vote despite being for it. I was concerned that I had a racist wingnut in my neighbourhood as I found a Yes pamphlet torn up in my front yard but it was just my daughter tearing it up after throwing a tanty (she's not racist) (aside from being Australian)
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Aug 7, 2023 05:49
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Yeah keeping in mind that the Liberals absolutely did not want a Republic and served up a dogshit option, it's amazing how similarly Labor is doing a bad job on the Yes vote despite being for it. you have to report your daughter to the death squads now, then yourself for allowing your daughter to do that sorry its the rules.
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Aug 7, 2023 05:57
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Eediot Jedi posted:you have to report your daughter to the death squads now, then yourself for allowing your daughter to do that Reported for failing to report.
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Aug 7, 2023 05:58
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the last thing you will hear is a boomerang crashing into your skull
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Aug 7, 2023 06:30
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Yeah keeping in mind that the Liberals absolutely did not want a Republic and served up a dogshit option, it's amazing how similarly Labor is doing a bad job on the Yes vote despite being for it. they learned the wrong lessons from the republic referendum. one of the widely cited reasons why the republic referendum failed is that the model howard offered up for a republic (head of state chosen by 2/3 of parliament) was controversial with the republic movement, some of whom wanted a different model (such as direct election) and that could have been enough to tip it. what they seem to have taken from that is to not provide much meaningful detail on the voice at all and just ask people to vote for it on the vibes to avoid any sort of dispute about the particular workings of the voice. however, since the general public doesn't really have a strong idea of what the voice is or how it will work and the government isn't providing much detail there, this has meant that the no campaign has been able to fill that void of information with its own lies. the vibes alone also isn't necessarily particularly convincing, since it won't have any effect at all for most people which makes it a more difficult sell and they don't seem to have any idea how to overcome that.
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Aug 7, 2023 06:32
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im going to vote below the line and highlight the policies i take issue with.
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Aug 7, 2023 07:09
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hooman posted:This is basically my view as well. It's better that we get what we can at the moment and push for more, rather than letting this say to First Nations people "nah fuckya" and shut this down for 30 more years. There are fair reasons to vote no for this, and if the choice was between an advisory body and a body with real power I would absolutely vote for the body with real power. But the choice is between advisory body and nothing. Do you have any idea how much giving real power will poo poo off the average Australian? Just speaking from the WA perspective where we implemented, what seemed to me quite sensible laws, to prevent companies like BHP from exploding priceless rock art to pieces over and over. Now they want to walk them back because a couple of people, who had no authority at all, complained about things, and that confused some other people, and then the media decided that we didn't do things like plant some trees because of this legislation. Which is not true. Also, I'm seeing people on facebook saying they're voting no because they don't think we should alter the constitution for a voice, they should just legislate it. I just don't think the average Australia is clued in enough on anything at this point, the yes campaign needs to up its game because they're dealing with idiots.
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Aug 7, 2023 07:09
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there's no way a yes vote wins this. There's going to be a strong contingent of people who would vote no on principal and the moderates will easily be spooked into a no vote, and a not insigificant amount of labor voters are racists too, so you're basically counting on the greens contingent to carry this through
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Aug 7, 2023 07:11
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aboriginals get a voice and the proles get poo poo, that envy will also doom it albo already out on a media tour telling people this is a 'once in a generation opportunity' - so yes, after australia votes this down, thats it. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-06/pm-warns-no-constitutional-indigenous-recognition-if-voice-fails/102693828 Rock Puncher fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 07:14
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albos intent is pretty clearly to fob off responsibility for making actual progress onto the states and tbh it might not even be that dumb of an idea from both the view of 'what helps federal labor the most' and even the actual intent of giving real agency to first nations people but i have my doubts they are considering the latter
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Aug 7, 2023 08:05
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a strange fowl posted:the voice is an op so they can collect data on which demographics may be a future threat to the white supremacist colonial state 
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Aug 7, 2023 08:07
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Konomex posted:the yes campaign needs to up its game because they're dealing with idiots. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE
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Aug 7, 2023 08:25
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The Lord Bude posted:I’m confused as to how the yes vote can be leading among people who voted for labor and the greens but trailing overall, given the outcome of the last election. The greens don't have cut through across the board. That % is high but still 1.2m people or thereabouts. Edit: ALP no is about double. JBP fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 08:51
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Wow, amazing that the person who leaked the Lehrmann case review was actually the former Justice who authored it. What the actual gently caress.
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Aug 7, 2023 09:38
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for further comedy he did so after finding a couple instances of 'serious misconduct' by the DPP then releases the loving report to journos before even giving it over to the chief minister rock solid process, inspires huge confidence in the justice systems of the act and afp
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Aug 7, 2023 09:53
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Doesn't parliament house have its own bizarro Swiss guard AFP as well?
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Aug 7, 2023 10:43
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