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Atlas Hugged posted:What the gently caress is up with all of these Vic Fontaine episodes? Watch it pally
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Aug 6, 2023 14:57
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Vic Fontaine is a better counselor than Deanna Troi. I like Troi for lots of other stuff but God drat is she terrible at her job sometimes.
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Aug 6, 2023 15:07
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If I had a nickel for every time Star Trek had a character who was a better counselor than the actual counselor, I'd have two nickels
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Aug 6, 2023 15:32
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Even Ezri was a better counselor than Troi
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Aug 6, 2023 15:41
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Further thoughts on The Price now I've slept on it; The writing isn't entirely terrible in its potential (Troi gushing about chocolate sundaes because she's A GIRL aside) and the final "I'm not your mum, you loser" scene is great, but the execution feels like everybody had no confidence in it. The mirror room workout is pretty indicative of that. Two women having a fairly grown up, casual discussion about sexuality, that's neat! Would have made for a fairly decent Ten Forward scene, them having a friendly drink. But how are you going to keep the boys interested while all this GIRLY ROMANCE TALK is going on? Oh. Does feel like her usefulness nosedives the moment Guinan steps in.
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Aug 6, 2023 15:54
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Much like Garak, Vic created such a lasting impression that it feels like he’s in far more episodes than he actually is (6, 3 of which he’s in the main plot).
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Aug 6, 2023 16:36
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Vic isn't Tony Bennett, but I can only think of Bennett whenever Vic is on screen.
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Aug 6, 2023 16:38
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MuddyFunster posted:Further thoughts on The Price now I've slept on it; The writing isn't entirely terrible in its potential (Troi gushing about chocolate sundaes because she's A GIRL aside) and the final "I'm not your mum, you loser" scene is great, but the execution feels like everybody had no confidence in it. The mirror room workout is pretty indicative of that. Two women having a fairly grown up, casual discussion about sexuality, that's neat! Would have made for a fairly decent Ten Forward scene, them having a friendly drink. But how are you going to keep the boys interested while all this GIRLY ROMANCE TALK is going on? Oh. The other good part of this episode, if I am remembering right, is that there's a good scene with Riker where the creepy guy tries to go alpha on him and Riker responds in a pretty healthy way, basically saying Troi can do what she likes if it makes her happy. It's a nice bit of healthy masculinity from Riker.
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Aug 6, 2023 16:38
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I did like that. It's funny how, depending on how he's written, Riker comes off as either pissy and self-righteous or affable and cool. And to Frakes' credit, he's never less than likeable either way.
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Aug 6, 2023 17:22
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Atlas Hugged posted:What the gently caress is up with all of these Vic Fontaine episodes? 
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Aug 6, 2023 17:28
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Gully Foyle posted:The other good part of this episode, if I am remembering right, is that there's a good scene with Riker where the creepy guy tries to go alpha on him and Riker responds in a pretty healthy way, basically saying Troi can do what she likes if it makes her happy. It's a nice bit of healthy masculinity from Riker. I think the only time Will Riker shows unhealthy controlling behaviors is "Second Chances" and anyone would be possessive in that situation.
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Aug 6, 2023 17:29
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DaveWoo posted:If I had a nickel for every time Star Trek had a character who was a better counselor than the actual counselor, I'd have two nickels This is because while the idea of getting therapy is around, none of the writers really respect the idea of professional therapists. You only need a head doctor if you're some kind of crazy! Just...y'know, talk about your problems with some sympathetic stranger who has another job that they're busy with. No need for fancy "qualifications".
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Aug 6, 2023 19:16
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I liked the ending of the episode where Geordi got captured by the Romulans and brainwashed ended with him getting counselling. Like it doesn't need to be an ongoing plot arc, just showing that this thing really messed him up and everyone is helping going forward is nice. When ever a character isn't on screen, just imagine they're getting therapy for all the horrible things they've been through, constantly.
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Aug 6, 2023 19:31
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MikeJF posted:NuTrek, but Voyager related. Prodigy S2 spoilers from the sneak peak at season 2 that just came out, although the show is still cancelled and season 2 is still complete but won't air unless the producers can figure something out. Here's the full clip. This is going to kill me if we don't end up getting Prodigy S2.
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Aug 6, 2023 19:47
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All I know is if I was on the Enterprise-D and needed to talk something over, I'd be going to see Guinan instead of Troi.
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Aug 6, 2023 20:12
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Powered Descent posted:All I know is if I was on the Enterprise-D and needed to talk something over, I'd be going to see Guinan instead of Troi. They literally wrote a lot of scenes so that they could be delivered by Whoopi if she was available or transferred to Troi if she couldn't make it.
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Aug 6, 2023 20:16
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Nullsmack posted:This is going to kill me if we don't end up getting Prodigy S2. https://trekmovie.com/2023/08/05/star-trek-prodigy-season-2-clip-reveals-legacy-returns-producers-confident-in-finding-new-home/ Kevin Hageman says he's "99% confident" that Prodigy has found a new home for Season 2. So that's probably why Star Trek.com is dropping the preview clip because it's all but a done deal at this point.
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Aug 6, 2023 22:24
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Was there something unique about the behind-the-scenes with Prodigy that made it ripe for cancellation, or did it just have the unlucky crossover of “we need to do some magical accounting this quarter, and we think Prodigy is getting the least amount of views of all the Treks, even though we’re pretty sure all our viewer measurements are bullshit”? I though I heard something about it being a joint venture with Nickelodeon that made it a little wonky.
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Aug 6, 2023 22:30
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HD DAD posted:Was there something unique about the behind-the-scenes with Prodigy that made it ripe for cancellation, or did it just have the unlucky crossover of “we need to do some magical accounting this quarter, and we think Prodigy is getting the least amount of views of all the Treks, even though we’re pretty sure all our viewer measurements are bullshit”? It's sounding more and more like the latter. Some pindick accountant told them to cancel Prodigy because his nerd numbers said they could erase it without issue and it turned out that the nerd numbers were wrong and people got really upset over it, so now they're in a bind with how to get out of this own goal mess they've made for themselves.
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Aug 6, 2023 22:36
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They erased it the same time they erased three other shows. They ran a spreadsheet and picked off some things that went under a line. They didn't take into account that erasing a Trek isn't quite the same as erasing an underperforming reality show or a first season new thing they took a punt on but nobody paid attention to.
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Aug 6, 2023 22:42
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I don't think it was purely a metric cancellation simply because Season 2 was in the can already. That's spent money and if they really just wanted to cancel it for money, it would have made sense to release season 2 for 3-6 months and then cancel and maybe pull the show if residuals were that much of a worry. I still think it has something to do with the Nickelodeon name being attached to it and it being a co-production with CBS Eye Animation Studios. CBS Eye Animation Studios was relauched in 2018 shortly before the re-merger with Viacom to make animated content on CBS All Access. Remember, CBS was the "owner" of the TV properties at this time. Nickelodeon Animation Studios existed in some incarnation dating back to the 90s. At this time, they were owned by Viacom (which had the ST movies.) The series was announced in January of 2019. December of 2019, the merger completed. So, when CBS Eye Animation Studios was formed, they would have thought they had exclusive claim to Star Trek animation. Then, as soon as the re-merger seemed like it was a sure thing, a competing animation studio under the same corporate umbrella is granted a show with IP that they just got access to. So, I think Prodigy had extra help getting the axe due to internal post-merger company politics.
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Aug 6, 2023 23:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s tough to tell, but it really does look like the back half of a Sovereign glued to the front half of an Intrepid, which… honestly isn’t too bad. Pretty sure those are the warp nacelles of the Inquiry class, which I hate :/
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Aug 6, 2023 23:30
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Pretty sure they're mainly Sovvy nacelles with the blue powered off.
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Aug 6, 2023 23:33
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Kibayasu posted:Much like Garak, Vic created such a lasting impression that it feels like he’s in far more episodes than he actually is (6, 3 of which he’s in the main plot). one of those he gets shot like 30 seconds in
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Aug 6, 2023 23:41
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https://twitter.com/Tyranicus/status/1688281691968913408 So hey, Robert Beltran's still a oval office 
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Aug 6, 2023 23:55
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Powered Descent posted:All I know is if I was on the Enterprise-D and needed to talk something over, I'd be going to see Guinan instead of Troi. Guinan's got booze and guns, Guinan's cool. 
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Aug 7, 2023 00:27
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It doesn't help that multiple characters who need counseling for the trauma they've experienced straight up refuse to attend or refuse to stop going. It really betrays how the writers feel about it. Also I don't hate Fountaine, but I'm just surprised he's as popular as he is. He really seems to have come out of nowhere to be this fan favorite character, but I mostly just want this loving war to be wrapped up already.
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Aug 7, 2023 00:47
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Most people subject to wars would like them to end quickly.
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Aug 7, 2023 00:57
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I should probably post this in the modern Star Trek thread, but from Mike Maihack's X/Twitter: Mike Maihack posted:To boldly go where no doll has gone before...
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Aug 7, 2023 01:24
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A.o.D. posted:Most people subject to wars would like them to end quickly. Sure, but I'm also just talking about TV and pacing and being entertained, and not watching DS9 to simulate the trauma and grief of war in the viewer's brain. My name isn't exactly O'Brien. It fees like it took an awful long time for us to even get to the Dominion War (officially I don't think it starts until Season 6, with everything else being a prelude to the major conflict). Between Klingon wars with the Federation and Cardassians, and the Romulan joint invasion of the Gamma Quadrant, it feels like the Dominion War has been going on a lot longer than it actually has. And even given that, there doesn't seem to be all that much the show can do with the war itself. You can't lose and retake DS9 more than once. You can't have too many Federation victories because then the war seems trivial. You can't bring the Federation too close to the brink, because then you have to convincingly save them and end the conflict or else it will never feel like there are actual stakes. It means that the best you can hope for are sort of stalemate episodes like the Siege of AR-558 that showcase the horrors and cost of the war, but don't actually move the needle at all. There are only so many "and nothing fundamentally changes" episodes you can do when you're supposed to be a serialized show. So we end up with all of these episodes that break the war episodes apart, and some of them are pretty good and some of them are very meh. I don't want to call Vic Fontaine filler because there are obviously important character moments that only happen because of the events of those episodes, but I kind of just want this thing to get wrapped up. It doesn't help that they've absolutely ruined Gul Dukat for me at this point. Padding out the war means having to come up with things for characters to do and to come up with additional conflicts to resolve. I thought Dukat had a perfectly fitting ending when he was caught on DS9 and his daughter died. If we never saw him again outside of a cameo or trial episode, I'd have been fine with that. But no, we had to have a whole Jonestown episode and now he's got some bullshit to do with Kai Winn (I paused the episode to go to bed, but I was kind of rolling my eyes at it already). I feel like Babylon 5 setting up and resolving its war across 4 seasons did a much better job of keeping the viewer engaged than DS9 has done over 7 seasons. Season 5 of Babylon 5 is the weird one because everything is already sort of done but they got a sudden order for an additional season and had to come up with loose ends to wrap up. The cult of Dukat is at least better than the cult of Byron. If I had to guess what makes B5 just work better for me, I'd say it's that there are aliens in the main cast who are not on the same side as the rest of the cast. We do get a lot of Weyoun and Dukat and Damar, and even Gowron earlier on, but they are all special guest stars. Having G'Kar and Londo be regular cast members meant that we always had another perspective to the current conflict and they required plots that required additional supporting characters giving an even wider view into their characters, cultures, and intentions. The most we see of the Dominion at this point is Damar and Weyoun bickering with the occasional appearance of the female Founder and Damar's floozy and that's just all sort of happening at the same time as Worf and Dax having another misadventure where they're stranded, but doesn't really connect to it at all. It's still a very good show, but I'm ready for the end is all I'm getting at. I guess I'm at the final arc according to Wikipedia, so let's see how they stick the landing. It can't be worse than Picard!
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Aug 7, 2023 02:17
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It's really too bad we didn't get Avery Brooks and Bruce Boxleitner together to yell at each other. I don't think Sheridan can top "EVIDENCE!" but he can hold his own in the indignant speech department (I don't think there are any spoilers here, but beware): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5-sBB9CPKo&t=33s Babylon 5 is the superior series.
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Aug 7, 2023 02:21
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I can hear a very frustrated Sisko telling Sheridan that we will not be nuking anybody.
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Aug 7, 2023 02:49
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Atlas Hugged posted:It can't be worse than Picard! So did season 3 not redeem this show for folk round here? I watched a piece of the first season of that and it did look pitiful. The part I caught was a ritual that ended with some Romulans doing (extremely graphic) mass suicide and self mutilation that was edited so much like a comedy scene that I was in tears of laughter. I couldn't believe it was real. Later, a mate suggested I try the third season, assuring me "It's good, they're trying make it like the TOS movies you like!" which sort of had me on board and I kinda liked it, apart from the Borg guff at the end with all the excessive ship battling which felt very much like a Russel T. Davis era Doctor Who season finale. It did leave enough of a positive impression to lead me where I am now, watching TNG for the first time. I realised "Hey, I like those characters all together, I should probably actually see them in their prime. And that Enterprise E looks cool as gently caress."
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Aug 7, 2023 03:04
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MuddyFunster posted:So did season 3 not redeem this show for folk round here? Season 3 drove me crazy because none of our favorite characters were acting like themselves for most of it - having arguments about the very things that TNG devoted entire episodes to how one should never doing them, then doing the things that their TNG selves said not to do. Like - not relinquishing command when emotionally compromised, as Picard should have when Jack was in danger. But the really unforgiveable part to me was the whole series mcguffin being that a woke collectivist mind virus is infecting the youth and only boomers can save us. It's hard to imagine anything less Trek. More like chuddy passion play. No thanks.
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Aug 7, 2023 03:12
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Picard Season 3 is frustrating because it's way better than Seasons 1 and 2 without itself being particularly good. They got rid of most of the lovely characters from Seasons 1 and 2, but kept Raffi who is just the absolute worst up until Worf shows up, and even then it's only good because Worf is loving sublime. The first four episodes of Picard Season 3 make a pretty good arc (Raffi aside), but I never felt the show really came together. We get to rehash both the Dominion War and the Borg, again. The Dominion War stuff was baffling just because it had nothing to do with TNG and it's not like they brought in any DS9 characters aside from Worf to make that link more obvious. As far as the Borg are concerned, between First Contact, Voyager, and Picard Season 2, I thought they were pretty much resolved. There's not much meat left on those bones in my opinion. Plus yeah, the actual ending was insulting. And then there's Jack. Star Trek just cannot let Wrath of Khan go, so of course we have another medical officer and Starfleet captain with a love child who grew up with mom and never learned what it meant to have a father. Yeah, they invert it by having it be a secret from Picard and not the son, but it's ultimately the same thing. They have to learn to form a connection and we've done this all before. Then Q shows up and I could not give a poo poo. And they killed off Shaw who was the single best thing the series did.
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Aug 7, 2023 03:27
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Atlas Hugged posted:Picard Season 3 is frustrating because it's way better than Seasons 1 and 2 without itself being particularly good. They got rid of most of the lovely characters from Seasons 1 and 2, but kept Raffi who is just the absolute worst up until Worf shows up, and even then it's only good because Worf is loving sublime. Good news though: because Terry Matalas is a cloying mewling coward who wants to please everyone, he later went on a tweet storm to reassure everyone that Shaw, Shelby and Ro are all somehow still alive, so the only people who died in PIC S3 are Vadic and the Borg Queen.
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Aug 7, 2023 03:35
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nine-gear crow posted:Good news though: because Terry Matalas is a cloying mewling coward who wants to please everyone, he later went on a tweet storm to reassure everyone that Shaw, Shelby and Ro are all somehow still alive, so the only people who died in PIC S3 are Vadic and the Borg Queen. This is somehow even worse. You either commit or you don't. I loving hate changes to canon made in non-canon sources. Reeks of "the wizards used to poop in the corners" Pottermore poo poo.
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Aug 7, 2023 03:41
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Atlas Hugged posted:so let's see how they stick the landing. It can't be worse than Picard! Got some bad news for you about that
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Aug 7, 2023 03:50
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The real DS9 series finale is the Lower Decks crossover episode (I rewatched it after like season 5 because apparently there are no real spoilers for anything DS9 post that). Kira just seems so happy.
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Aug 7, 2023 04:10
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Kesper North posted:But the really unforgiveable part to me was the whole series mcguffin being that a woke collectivist mind virus is infecting the youth and only boomers can save us. It's hard to imagine anything less Trek. More like chuddy passion play. No thanks. Jeeeeeeeeesus, I did NOT think of that read. Okay, goodwill fading somewhat.
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Aug 7, 2023 04:23
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