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Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

EDIT: Beaten on the names. So have some other stuff instead to not waste a post.

Reverie - Coda speculation

So I just finished Stratum 6 and saw (Reverie/Azure end) the mystery entity which looks like KeA but is not. KeA, Millium and Altina are all getting a strange feeling. So my theory is that the entity is the Sept-Terrion of Zero which KeA discarded into the void when she went back to being a normal person.

Speaking of the Reverie Finale (not the Coda, the climax of the Finale before that)...

How does Elysium, an AI capable of creating Lapis - an entity which is extremely good at emulating or experiencing human emotions – manage to have such a poor grasp on understanding humans?

This AI, it's so super-smart that it can accurately predict human behavior patterns well in advance, right? If the AI's goal is to bring peace to the world, WHY would it think that the right being for the job is the literal manifestation of human evil incarnate? A nihilistic being of hate and malice which only wants to destroy all. What part of that sounds like it would be a good shepherd to bring enlightenment and peace?
I was trying to pay attention to the final boss motive rant and such, but I didn't get that part.

Have you interacted with AI before?

(Yes, yes, I know. The things folks call "AI" are by and large LLMs, which wouldn't even pass the bar for a Mass Effect VI, let alone an AI. But my point is, "no amount of batshit evil seems unrealistic for an AI to pursue")

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JavaJesus
Jul 4, 2007

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Speaking of the Reverie Finale (not the Coda, the climax of the Finale before that)...

How does Elysium, an AI capable of creating Lapis - an entity which is extremely good at emulating or experiencing human emotions – manage to have such a poor grasp on understanding humans?

This AI, it's so super-smart that it can accurately predict human behavior patterns well in advance, right? If the AI's goal is to bring peace to the world, WHY would it think that the right being for the job is the literal manifestation of human evil incarnate? A nihilistic being of hate and malice which only wants to destroy all. What part of that sounds like it would be a good shepherd to bring enlightenment and peace?
I was trying to pay attention to the final boss motive rant and such, but I didn't get that part.
My understanding is that in searching for more and more data Elysium accidentally found Ishmelga-Rean in his alternate timeline (or his outside of time void or wherever he "actually" was?), at which point he took over and kicked Lapis out. After that, he and Elysium sort of merged or corrupted each other or something to the point where their combined new goal became "Bring peace (by killing everybody so there's no conflict)".

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Junpei posted:

See: Jusis and Machias.

Yeah, but that's a symptom of all character texture to Class 7 being condensed into just CS1 and disappearing afterwards.

I actually want to replay CS1 at some point, just because it'd be kind of interesting given how "long ago" it was - if nothing else, this series is good at conveying a sense of lots of time passing, to the point that it'd be kind of novel to see all these characters when they first appear again.

MythosDragon posted:

At the very least, everyone's gotta do two things.

One, stop pretending Cold Steel was in anyway the start of these tropes. If it wasn't Crossbell, it was Sky. For example Mind control started in arc 1, game 1, and has been in every arc but arc 3. So if anything Cold Steel avoided it longest.

The kind of giant difference is that the mind control in Sky wasn't the cause of the villains' behavior.

...!
Oct 5, 2003

I SHOULD KEEP MY DUMB MOUTH SHUT INSTEAD OF SPEWING HORSESHIT ABOUT THE ORBITAL MECHANICS OF THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT A LAGRANGE POINT IS?

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

EDIT: Beaten on the names. So have some other stuff instead to not waste a post.

Reverie - Coda speculation

So I just finished Stratum 6 and saw (Reverie/Azure end) the mystery entity which looks like KeA but is not. KeA, Millium and Altina are all getting a strange feeling. So my theory is that the entity is the Sept-Terrion of Zero which KeA discarded into the void when she went back to being a normal person.

Speaking of the Reverie Finale (not the Coda, the climax of the Finale before that)...

How does Elysium, an AI capable of creating Lapis - an entity which is extremely good at emulating or experiencing human emotions – manage to have such a poor grasp on understanding humans?

This AI, it's so super-smart that it can accurately predict human behavior patterns well in advance, right? If the AI's goal is to bring peace to the world, WHY would it think that the right being for the job is the literal manifestation of human evil incarnate? A nihilistic being of hate and malice which only wants to destroy all. What part of that sounds like it would be a good shepherd to bring enlightenment and peace?
I was trying to pay attention to the final boss motive rant and such, but I didn't get that part.


Lawyer guy (can't remember his name at the moment) said that Elysium had zero understanding of emotion whatsoever until he basically coached it into creating Lapis. Elysium, in its mindless gathering of knowledge, later created Ishmelga Rean without Lapis knowing about it until it was too late.

Red Red Blue
Feb 11, 2007



I'm honestly kind of surprised Hummel is in the top 10. I like the guy well enough but he didn't seem all that memorable

TheMightyBoops
Nov 1, 2016

Red Red Blue posted:

I'm honestly kind of surprised Hummel is in the top 10. I like the guy well enough but he didn't seem all that memorable

I thought Hummel was the beefy anchor guy from YS 8; now I’m disappointed.

Justice for beefy anchor guy.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Veryslightlymad posted:

Mass Effect VI

It took me far too long to realise you weren't referring to a sixth Mass Effect game.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Thoom
Jan 12, 2004

LUIGI SMASH!
After thinking on it a bit more, I think I'm more OK with the (Reverie) Juno Naval Fortress incident and general bloodlessness of Reverie. If one is inclined towards charitable interpretations, it could be explained by the Rean side of Ishmelga-Rean doing his best to pull punches even if he can't exert full control over the process.

Another interesting implication of the plot is that Ishmelga is the most powerful malign entity within Elysium's simulation capacity, which we know extends at least a few months into the past and at least 3 years into the future across all of Zemuria. If they try to pull an "even bigger than Ishmelga" threat out of their hats, they need to explain why that threat didn't hijack Elysium instead of/from Ishmelga for its own ends.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

Thoom posted:

Another interesting implication of the plot is that Ishmelga is the most powerful malign entity within Elysium's simulation capacity, which we know extends at least a few months into the past and at least 3 years into the future across all of Zemuria. If they try to pull an "even bigger than Ishmelga" threat out of their hats, they need to explain why that threat didn't hijack Elysium instead of/from Ishmelga for its own ends.

”within Elysium’s simulation capacity” probably does the heavy lifting there. I imagine any future threat larger than Ishmelga is one that Elysium wasn’t able to recreate even with all the infinite energy and literal magic at its disposal.

Alternatively, perhaps Ishmelga was only one of the first threats it simulated and it had already taken over before Elysium could get to anything else.

Thoom
Jan 12, 2004

LUIGI SMASH!

Super Jay Mann posted:

”within Elysium’s simulation capacity” probably does the heavy lifting there. I imagine any future threat larger than Ishmelga is one that Elysium wasn’t able to recreate even with all the infinite energy and literal magic at its disposal.

Alternatively, perhaps Ishmelga was only one of the first threats it simulated and it had already taken over before Elysium could get to anything else.


The first option seems more plausible. Though if they bother to explain it, it will probably be more like "it had the power to cloak itself from causality because lore and caught everyone by surprise" or something.

unimportantguy
Dec 25, 2012

Hey, Johnny, what's a "shitpost"?
I am in Act 2 of CS2 now and like 40 hours in. Either this game is long as hell even compared to the others or there aren't that many acts in it.

I still really like Laura but I'm finding myself wishing she had more to do. Her role in the plot has mostly been to stand to the side and occasionally pipe up to say something about swords, with her only actual substantive dialogue being in bonding events. Even stuff like her concern for her missing father is shoved off into bonding events and basically ignored in the main plot. The stuff in the bonding events though does add to something I really like about the way Rean and Laura interact: they see right through each other and will call each other out on emotional dishonesty, and even when they have serious disagreements, they tend to deal with it and move on without any grudges. It feels remarkably healthy compared to a lot of character relationships in JRPGs.

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010

Yeah, aside from the Legram stuff Laura's roles is entirely optional and depends on Bonding Events or bringing her whenever Duvalie is involved

But she's great and is Rean's best LI so the bonding events are mandatory anyway :v:

Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen

unimportantguy posted:

I am in Act 2 of CS2 now and like 40 hours in. Either this game is long as hell even compared to the others or there aren't that many acts in it.

There's only really two acts...kind of. So you're a solid distance in.

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

CS2 is pretty long. Also kinda leaves you with the feeling a lot of the cast aren't doing a whole lot for most of it tbh

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010

unimportantguy posted:

I am in Act 2 of CS2 now and like 40 hours in. Either this game is long as hell even compared to the others or there aren't that many acts in it.

I still really like Laura but I'm finding myself wishing she had more to do. Her role in the plot has mostly been to stand to the side and occasionally pipe up to say something about swords, with her only actual substantive dialogue being in bonding events. Even stuff like her concern for her missing father is shoved off into bonding events and basically ignored in the main plot. The stuff in the bonding events though does add to something I really like about the way Rean and Laura interact: they see right through each other and will call each other out on emotional dishonesty, and even when they have serious disagreements, they tend to deal with it and move on without any grudges. It feels remarkably healthy compared to a lot of character relationships in JRPGs.

I feel like that's the point of Bonding events: it's hard for the main story to have someone like Elliot or Laura to contribute like Jusis or Alisa does, but with Bonding events you can still have deep scenes with the former to see either how the war is affecting them or just seeing Rean and them have a breather in between the action

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

unimportantguy posted:

I am in Act 2 of CS2 now and like 40 hours in. Either this game is long as hell even compared to the others or there aren't that many acts in it.

I still really like Laura but I'm finding myself wishing she had more to do. Her role in the plot has mostly been to stand to the side and occasionally pipe up to say something about swords, with her only actual substantive dialogue being in bonding events. Even stuff like her concern for her missing father is shoved off into bonding events and basically ignored in the main plot. The stuff in the bonding events though does add to something I really like about the way Rean and Laura interact: they see right through each other and will call each other out on emotional dishonesty, and even when they have serious disagreements, they tend to deal with it and move on without any grudges. It feels remarkably healthy compared to a lot of character relationships in JRPGs.

Don't expect anyone except Rean to do anything in CS2.

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

And Jusis

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

...! posted:

(Reverie - Act 4 C route end -
Lawyer guy (can't remember his name at the moment) said that Elysium had zero understanding of emotion whatsoever until he basically coached it into creating Lapis. Elysium, in its mindless gathering of knowledge, later created Ishmelga Rean without Lapis knowing about it until it was too late.


That's what a first draft looks like coming from a place of zero understanding???


unimportantguy posted:

I am in Act 2 of CS2 now and like 40 hours in. Either this game is long as hell even compared to the others or there aren't that many acts in it.

I still really like Laura but I'm finding myself wishing she had more to do. Her role in the plot has mostly been to stand to the side and occasionally pipe up to say something about swords, with her only actual substantive dialogue being in bonding events. Even stuff like her concern for her missing father is shoved off into bonding events and basically ignored in the main plot. The stuff in the bonding events though does add to something I really like about the way Rean and Laura interact: they see right through each other and will call each other out on emotional dishonesty, and even when they have serious disagreements, they tend to deal with it and move on without any grudges. It feels remarkably healthy compared to a lot of character relationships in JRPGs.

The game is a little longer than just what the act number suggest.

Even though Laura isn't my favorite girl, I don't dislike her. I agree that the story badly shortchanges her in several ways. There are a lot of missed opportunities to add layers or interest to her. (Her conflict with Fie in CS 1 could have had a layer tied into something mentioned in Sky FC. The visit to Legram in CS 1 reveals the least about Laura than any other visit to a character's hometown reveals. They don't even reveal any information about her mother until CS 4, and that only made me wish they'd done ANYTHING with it earlier.) Another part of the problem is that she's one of the Swords People, and Falcom writes all the swords people the same way - practically single-minded in their obsession with training to get better at Swords.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Aug 7, 2023

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Speaking of the Reverie Finale (not the Coda, the climax of the Finale before that)...

How does Elysium, an AI capable of creating Lapis - an entity which is extremely good at emulating or experiencing human emotions – manage to have such a poor grasp on understanding humans?

This AI, it's so super-smart that it can accurately predict human behavior patterns well in advance, right? If the AI's goal is to bring peace to the world, WHY would it think that the right being for the job is the literal manifestation of human evil incarnate? A nihilistic being of hate and malice which only wants to destroy all. What part of that sounds like it would be a good shepherd to bring enlightenment and peace?
I was trying to pay attention to the final boss motive rant and such, but I didn't get that part.

I mentioned this before, but it didn't choose the evil god, the evil god chose it. It was just mindlessly simulating all possible futures for reference purposes and stumbled across the one with the evil god, except even a simulation of the evil god was evil enough to take over all its systems. It was an accident.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Clarste posted:

I mentioned this before, but it didn't choose the evil god, the evil god chose it. It was just mindlessly simulating all possible futures for reference purposes and stumbled across the one with the evil god, except even a simulation of the evil god was evil enough to take over all its systems. It was an accident.

Like everything else in this game, that makes literally no sense whatsoever.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

CS1 and CS2 are both 100 hours to 100%.
Was my playtime both on Vita and PS4 somehow.

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Reverie just got a TC level plot of "A mysterious power causes an asset reuse adventure where Everyone Is Here". With a couple extra steps. The mechanics of the plot are pretty goofy and just an exuse to set the stage for the character exploration and boss refights the game wants to do.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
heck yeah swords

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010

kirbysuperstar posted:

heck yeah swords

omg beautiful knight lady!!

unimportantguy
Dec 25, 2012

Hey, Johnny, what's a "shitpost"?
Swords! :hmmyes:

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
Speaking of weapons, have the CGF ever used the machine guns they have on their APCs? Maybe Crossbell would have less trouble if they ever figured out how to use them.

Edit: LOL, they just did.

MythosDragon
Jan 3, 2016

When your sword is bigger than you, do you really need anything else? That's an automatic S tier Character just waiting to go higher.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Like everything else in this game, that makes literally no sense whatsoever.

We live in a world where Microsoft let loose a benign LLM on Twitter and within days it turned into a racist Nazi troll, this fanciful video game scenario sounds ENTIRELY plausible.

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010

MythosDragon posted:

When your sword is bigger than you, do you really need anything else? That's an automatic S tier Character just waiting to go higher.

See Rixia for two things to add onto of a biggass sword

SgtSteel91
Oct 21, 2010

Is there a way to get GeForce overlay to appear while playing Reverie on PC? Everytime I try, it kicks me from the game to go to the desktop

edit: Fixed the issue

SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Aug 7, 2023

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
So, what am I missing for the “The Many Famous Views of Crossbell” request? I’ve gotten
-landscape along Old Armorica Riad
- Arnorica village fields
- Ursula Road ruins (the ones submerged in water
- Graveyard cliff
- Stargazer Tower
- Ruins near Mainz Mountain Path
- Sun Fort
- Train

I’m mostly curious at this point, it’s probably only one missing so I’d take the L happily otherwise.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

Last Celebration posted:

So, what am I missing for the “The Many Famous Views of Crossbell” request? I’ve gotten
-landscape along Old Armorica Riad
- Arnorica village fields
- Ursula Road ruins (the ones submerged in water
- Graveyard cliff
- Stargazer Tower
- Ruins near Mainz Mountain Path
- Sun Fort
- Train

I’m mostly curious at this point, it’s probably only one missing so I’d take the L happily otherwise.

The big honkin' scenic waterfall on Mainz Road.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Lol, I thought it was a thing but I guess I didn’t stand in the right spot for the trigger, thanks.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

There's also the ancient battlefield, but only after the required quest that takes you there and you have to go back after the quest is completed. You can *find* the spot during the quest but you spend just as much time saying "NO TIME FOR THAT" as you could have taking the photo.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Yeah, I somehow made a wild guess and assumed I’d have at least one thing open up like halfway through the chapter when I initially waited to submit the photos.

Also it was nice seeing you again, Blueblanc even if I cheated 70% of your quest because I’m stupid and lazy. Wonder what point in Cold Steel 1 that request took place in since he mentions having to immediately dip after giving us the Sagittarius Gem, probably right before the festival.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Crossbell's 70th Anniversary is early April and Class VII's first field study is late April; Class VII first meets on the 31st of March, so Bleublanc has plenty of time to go harass Olivert.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Huh yeah, that does line up with him bumming around Erebonia for recon or whatever, though I can’t remember if he’s in the town for the very first trip or if it’s the second trip.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Bleublanc is encountered in Bareahard, helping you out with your quests.

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Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Man, I guess there’s a lot of questions that could still be answered, but my number one thing is “why is Blueblanc an Enforcer?” Most of the other guys really just loving love fighting poo poo and/or violence and carnage, but he’s just there vibing and doing over the top heists that earn him international infamy. Maybe he’s a true believer in the cause? Maybe Ouroboros gave him his magic? Hell, is he actually Literally Just Magic, because I guess that gels with the setting? Who knows!

He’s pretty cool though, ngl. ha-hah.

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