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side_burned posted:So what is consensus on Morison's run on New X-Men these days? Every few years I try rereading to so if I finally get what exactly people liked about it. Riot at Xavier's is good and the highlight of the whole thing but the rest if it never worked for me. I always felt it seemed weirdly reactionary - Morrison introduces so many new young characters, and all of them end up being duped into working for the baddies at some point. Quentin Quire is basically just a rant about college kids with their Che T-Shirts. 'Mutant culture' seems to basically consist of taking drugs and dying. It plays at being a new direction for the X-Men, but it ends up having the message of 'shut up, sit down, listen to the grown ups.' And I'm still mad at Morrison for blowing up Genosha so thoughtlessly, essentially just to build up a (fairly boring) new villain. Earlier stories hadn't always used Genosha to its full potential, but it was great to have it, as a place where, because it was a fictional country, things could actually change and mutants could be more than just an eternally oppressed minority. Plus the art was awful.
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Aug 5, 2023 16:04
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In case Jed needed the ego boost today: https://old.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/15irkbu/moon_knight_lets_villain_control_him_by_getting/ Still one of the best things I've ever read.
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Aug 5, 2023 16:17
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I reread Morrison's X-Men and liked it better now than when it came out, but there were still some bad parts. Angel is still an unpleasant character with no purpose. His Magento is more of a meta commentary than character and is terrible. But his Emma is great and anytime she's featured is a treat. Assault on Weapon Plus is a fun story, especially the issue with drunk Scott and Logan at the Hellfire Club. And ending the run by asking they keep Scott and Emma a couple really did set up the next generation of X-Men comics really nicely.
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Aug 5, 2023 16:51
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Vulpes Vulpes posted:Here's some news, it's going to be sick High praise indeed! Also I know you mentioned you had a pitch of B-list Avengers that you didn't go with, can you tell us who was on the roster or are you saving that idea for later?
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Aug 5, 2023 18:43
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Codependent Poster posted:His Magento is more of a meta commentary than character and is terrible. Yeah meta commentary where there should be characters somes up the biggest weakness of the whole run.
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Aug 5, 2023 19:44
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It's convenient Xorn had a brother
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Aug 5, 2023 19:56
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Yvonmukluk posted:High praise indeed! I don't mind talking about generalities, but getting into specifics in public isn't usually something I like to do. It's partly to do with what you mentioned- if something is out there, then I can't use it later on down the line, but also talking about "what might have been" doesn't really have any upside. If it's a good idea, people get upset that it won't happen (and can annoy the editor who turned it down), and if it's a bad idea, then I'm just telling the internet about times I was bad at my job, haha
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Aug 5, 2023 19:58
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Vulpes Vulpes posted:I don't mind talking about generalities, but getting into specifics in public isn't usually something I like to do. It's partly to do with what you mentioned- if something is out there, then I can't use it later on down the line, but also talking about "what might have been" doesn't really have any upside. If it's a good idea, people get upset that it won't happen (and can annoy the editor who turned it down), and if it's a bad idea, then I'm just telling the internet about times I was bad at my job, haha That's a fair point. Here's hoping you get a chance to try that idea in some form down the line.
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Aug 5, 2023 20:17
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Angry Salami posted:
The only time it was never a place for eternally oppressed minority was the story line right before Morrison’s run. Previous to that it either mutants as slaves, mutants and humans fighting for political power, or mutants with legacy virus being left to die.
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Aug 7, 2023 15:39
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Tell me if I am wrong but was the issue of New X-Men where the team is pick the ruins of Genosha the one that shipped in September 2001?
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Aug 7, 2023 16:52
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That was the one year anniversary. The issue where Genosha gets destroyed, along with a Sentinel made with parts of a jet being flown into a building, was the one that came out right before 9/11.
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Aug 7, 2023 17:20
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I suppose it's easy to look back on a twenty-two year-old comic book from our vantage point as advanced future humans and find it regressive, but surely we can at least agree that the X-Men wouldn't be anything like it is today if it weren't for Morrison? It seems crazy to imagine now that the X-Men used to have secret identities and that no one even knew Charles Xavier was a mutant before Morrison. Who knows what the mutant metaphor would even be like today, if it hadn't been for Morrison's run. And I'm sorry, but it's silly to prop up Genosha as some brilliant fertile concept that Morrison somehow squandered. Barely anyone even knew it existed before it got blown up and it really had zero impact on anything at all.
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Aug 7, 2023 18:10
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i read the genosha genocide a couple days ago out of curiosity and i can't speak to the larger concerns but i thought it was pretty funny the whole actual destruction happens mostly off panel and then afterwards focuses on negasonic's dead body before moving on with the cassandra nova part of the story. it didn't seem overly concerned with the gravity of what just occured
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Aug 7, 2023 18:20
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BrianWilly posted:I suppose it's easy to look back on a twenty-two year-old comic book from our vantage point as advanced future humans and find it regressive, but surely we can at least agree that the X-Men wouldn't be anything like it is today if it weren't for Morrison? It seems crazy to imagine now that the X-Men used to have secret identities and that no one even knew Charles Xavier was a mutant before Morrison. Who knows what the mutant metaphor would even be like today, if it hadn't been for Morrison's run. yeah, I hate the morrison run, but you are correct, it really shook things up and helped us get to where we are today. I just won't ever read it again lol
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Aug 7, 2023 18:45
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See how it shook things up is exactly why it's terrible, opened the floodgates for a lot of really lovely edgelord crap from other creators misunderstanding why Morrison's X-Men run sold well* *sure one could say the same thing for Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns back in the 80's and how they inspired all sorts of schlock that clogged up the shelves through the 90's but at least those comics were actually good
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Aug 7, 2023 19:30
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I don’t know who wanted this, but apparently someone did https://twitter.com/spiderman/status/1688661236785766400?s=46&t=jsXI_L75JAqioMEUgiTVQg
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Aug 8, 2023 00:29
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FoneBone posted:I don’t know who wanted this, but apparently someone did I can't even tell what's going on in that image tbh.
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Aug 8, 2023 00:55
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It's radioactive jizz spider-man.
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Aug 8, 2023 00:56
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Two More Days.
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Aug 8, 2023 00:59
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FoneBone posted:I don’t know who wanted this, but apparently someone did I actually really like Reign(even if it really needed to dial back the edginess a solid 35% or so and does a couple other things that irk me a little*) but I'm not sure there's really much you can do with a sequel at least without having to do a bunch of retcons or something *most of which has to do with how Reign does basically no explaining at all regarding how the world ended up the way it is, particularly regarding anyone outside of the Spider-Man segment(compared to say most of the other dystopian/apocalyptic Marvel futures)
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Aug 8, 2023 01:25
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Time to write a new Spider-Man comic. 
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Aug 8, 2023 01:59
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Jiro posted:I can't even tell what's going on in that image tbh. No clue. Is MJ growing out of him like a second head?
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Aug 8, 2023 02:04
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drrockso20 posted:I actually really like Reign(even if it really needed to dial back the edginess a solid 35% or so and does a couple other things that irk me a little*) but I'm not sure there's really much you can do with a sequel at least without having to do a bunch of retcons or something I like Reign, but mostly because it's very much not good and wraps around to being amazing (spectacular, even). Also agree, no idea how you'd do a sequel.
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Aug 8, 2023 02:26
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catlord posted:I like Reign, but mostly because it's very much not good and wraps around to being amazing (spectacular, even). Also agree, no idea how you'd do a sequel. The best idea I've got is retconning Sandman's daughter dying and having the focus be primarily on her
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Aug 8, 2023 03:14
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I'm curious as to what edgy grimdark comics exactly people think were inspired by Morrison? In an era of Millers, Millars, Bendises, and Johnses, I wouldn't usually put Morrison anywhere near the top of any edgelord lists. I mean for pete's sake we're talking about spider-jizz right now
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Aug 8, 2023 03:14
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Magneto should have stayed dead much longer and a villain forever.
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Aug 8, 2023 03:20
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BrianWilly posted:I'm curious as to what edgy grimdark comics exactly people think were inspired by Morrison? In an era of Millers, Millars, Bendises, and Johnses, I wouldn't usually put Morrison anywhere near the top of any edgelord lists. They didn't inspire them in any direct fashion just that their run sold really well and everyone paying attention to those sales numbers attributed it to the wrong aspects of that run and imitated those parts, which is exactly what happened back in the 80's with Watchmen and DKR
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Aug 8, 2023 03:24
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FoneBone posted:I don’t know who wanted this, but apparently someone did Can't wait to see old Peter's tiny dick and balls again. Thranguy posted:Magneto should have stayed dead much longer and a villain forever. Magneto is much better as an anti-hero/hero.
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Aug 8, 2023 03:37
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Yeah gently caress Reign anyway. Been catching up on Avengers and I'm continuing to enjoy it despite not being particularly in love with a majority of the cast. It's probably a good sign then that my favourite scene in the third issue was the scene where Jed has them all display their character and position in the team in information gathering, diagnosis and shot-calling. Carol feels like a leader, probably helped by the absence of Steve Rogers giving her some room to breathe, and the whackadoo bad guys match up with the team nicely and allow them to showcase their whole deal. Plus he turned the downtown core of Toronto into a Salvador Dali painting, which frankly is only going to please those of us trying to get on the ludicrous housing ladder here.
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Aug 8, 2023 03:53
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BrianWilly posted:I'm curious as to what edgy grimdark comics exactly people think were inspired by Morrison? In an era of Millers, Millars, Bendises, and Johnses, I wouldn't usually put Morrison anywhere near the top of any edgelord lists. I don't usually agree with you, but you're right with this one. Putting all the blame on Morrison for the excesses of '00s Marvel seems strange when it was coming out alongside Millar's early work in the Ultimate Universe. Morrison's first issue of New X-Men came out something like nine months before the first issue of Millar's Ultimates. If there's one thing I'd put on Morrison, it's dragging Marvel firmly out of the '90s and into the Quesada "iconic" era, particularly with cover design. If you look at the Fandom wiki for the first issue of Morrison's run, most of the other books that were coming out at the time were still Bob Harras-era generic superhero comics. Morrison and Quitely streamlined the look, went for minimalist cover art, and soon the rest of the line had all abandoned the similar branding in favor of messing with the overall format. As for the "grim darkness" of '00s comics, I'd put that far more on Millar, Chuck Austen, and Geoff Johns.
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Aug 8, 2023 05:52
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I'd say it started even earlier than that, you could probably draw a wriggly line all the way back to Watchmen's descendants. the 90s were lousy with mutants with knives, guns and/or gunknives.
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Aug 8, 2023 07:47
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BrianWilly posted:I'm curious as to what edgy grimdark comics exactly people think were inspired by Morrison? In an era of Millers, Millars, Bendises, and Johnses, I wouldn't usually put Morrison anywhere near the top of any edgelord lists. Goons nebulously whining about edginess like a bunch of uptight, easily appalled Victorian maiden aunts just means it’s Tuesday.
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Aug 8, 2023 08:51
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FoneBone posted:I don’t know who wanted this, but apparently someone did You know, I was just recently thinking about how much fun it could be (emphasis on could) if Marvel released a prequel to Spider-Man: Reign detailing NYC's slide into authoritarianism and the birth of the Reign. I think that would be a lot more interesting than a direct sequel, which would either have to justify the return of the Reign and the WEBB forces or leave the title as an artifact while the story takes the form a regular Spider-Man arc except he's old now. JordanKai fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Aug 8, 2023 |
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Aug 8, 2023 09:55
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If you read me a summary of Morrison's X-men I'd probably hate it, but it's a really well written story that survives multiple reads. I think a lot of the responses to it are where things have largely gone wrong. From Xorn-as-just-some-guy to AvX we had like 15 years of people picking up Morrison threads and it being exactly as bad as I thought Morrison's run would be because it just is too far away from what I think of as core to x-men.
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Aug 8, 2023 10:41
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Thranguy posted:Magneto should have stayed dead much longer and a villain forever. John Byrne alt spotted.
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Aug 8, 2023 13:23
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Dawgstar posted:John Byrne alt spotted. Malicious comment
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Aug 8, 2023 13:55
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I'm pretty sure One More Day and Clone Saga are more notorious As for Morrison's X-Men, I honestly don't find that it trades too much in grim darkness as much as Authority-style "cinematic epic scale" like you see other books like the Ultimates riffing on too. I'm not a big fan, but I have a certain respect for it, even if I find the public-service style uniforms to to be really annoying and terrible.
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Aug 8, 2023 19:46
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Rick posted:I think a lot of the responses to it are where things have largely gone wrong. From Xorn-as-just-some-guy to AvX we had like 15 years of people picking up Morrison threads and it being exactly as bad as I thought Morrison's run would be because it just is too far away from what I think of as core to x-men. Thinking about it, Morrison was the vanguard of the early-2000s trend which seemed like it was evolving the line away from superhero books. Costumes and secret identities were increasingly out (except for Spider-Man), while a lot of books like post-9/11 Captain America, Geoff Johns' Avengers run, and especially Millar's Ultimates are more like military science fiction. It's an interesting thought exercise: what if Marvel had embraced Morrison instead of retreating as fast and hard as possible? Civil War could've been the official jumping-off point to go from a superhero universe to a much broader genre-pool.
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Aug 8, 2023 23:07
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So is Reign 2 indicative of Spider Editorial going forward? People don’t like the current stories so might as well get people interested in potential trainwrecks?
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Aug 9, 2023 00:10
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Grant Morrison's run was good, not perfect, but did a lot of things like making a mutant sub-culture and a minority class and having enough threads that continued for the X-Men well beyond his run. The art was also inconsistent which is disappointing. There's a lot of great ideas and things put forth in his run that inspired other writers to mine it for years and he got the X-Men out of stagnation.
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Aug 9, 2023 00:18
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