(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Uh nah it’s pretty commonwealth-wordy to forcibly deport people who were born in the place they live in because another country also considers them citizens, even if the country is Russia, and frankly I support deporting anyone who thinks it’s cool to do so far away from my home Maybe read the news item before you come here pearl-clutching; they are deporting the immigrants who don't have permanent residence permit, haven't taken the language tests, and haven't applied for either one.
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Aug 8, 2023 16:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Uh nah it’s pretty commonwealth-wordy to forcibly deport people who were born in the place they live in because another country also considers them citizens, even if the country is Russia, and frankly I support deporting anyone who thinks it’s cool to do so far away from my home They could simply learn Latvian and take the legally required exam and submit the proper paperwork to the government if they wish to not be deported  but don't let that stop you from making poo poo up! quote:Ingmars Lidaka, the head of the parliamentary committee on citizenship and migration, said, “There are 5,000 to 6,000 of them. These are people who have not shown any desire, either to take the exam or to obtain a temporary residence permit. They are silent.”
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Aug 8, 2023 16:50
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In 1917, the US produced 17,000 155mm shells per day with vastly inferior technology. During the Vietnam War, the US lost literally 5,000 helicopters and it was fine because we just made more. If the political willpower existed to simply order industry to make poo poo then Ukraine wouldnt have any shortages. The increase in shells is promising for the Ukrainian Army but small in historical terms. You have to wonder, if this war is really that important then why are European countries and the US not doing more to just take control of their industrial capacities to actually make some poo poo? They either dont really care that much, or are way too bought into the free market for something that should really be under heavy government control
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Aug 8, 2023 16:51
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Uh nah it’s pretty commonwealth-wordy to forcibly deport people who were born in the place they live in because another country also considers them citizens, even if the country is Russia, and frankly I support deporting anyone who thinks it’s cool to do so far away from my home Most if not all of the people being deported under these types of plans Russians in their 50s to 70s that have not and have no intention of integrating into their host countries by doing the simple task of learning the local loving language. They are Russians first and last, with little to no lip service paid to their host countries. Literally the worst kind of boomer scum. gently caress 'em, and gently caress anyone who says they're not a problem.
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Aug 8, 2023 16:52
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OctaMurk posted:In 1917, the US produced 17,000 155mm shells per day with vastly inferior technology. During the Vietnam War, the US lost literally 5,000 helicopters and it was fine because we just made more. If the political willpower existed to simply order industry to make poo poo then Ukraine wouldnt have any shortages. The increase in shells is promising for the Ukrainian Army but small in historical terms. You have to wonder, if this war is really that important then why are European countries and the US not doing more to just take control of their industrial capacities to actually make some poo poo? They either dont really care that much, or are way too bought into the free market for something that should really be under heavy government control
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Aug 8, 2023 16:53
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OctaMurk posted:In 1917, the US produced 17,000 155mm shells per day with vastly inferior technology. During the Vietnam War, the US lost literally 5,000 helicopters and it was fine because we just made more. If the political willpower existed to simply order industry to make poo poo then Ukraine wouldnt have any shortages. The increase in shells is promising for the Ukrainian Army but small in historical terms. You have to wonder, if this war is really that important then why are European countries and the US not doing more to just take control of their industrial capacities to actually make some poo poo? They either dont really care that much, or are way too bought into the free market for something that should really be under heavy government control Key difference being in WW1 and WW2 the US was in a total war economy while fighting in those wars directly. That is not the case now. It is important but make no mistake it is not as important to the US as a war that involved extensive conscription and mobilization of the entire American society. The degree to which American society changed in order to produce the manufacturing and arms industry you're talking about resulted in cataclysmic changes to the status quo and directly led to women being able to vote, in the case of WW1. The situations and scales are vastly different
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Aug 8, 2023 16:54
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Russia would never deport people or forcibly migrate them
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Aug 8, 2023 16:55
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Der Kyhe posted:They also didn't think that Bojo would do the one proper thing in his political career and actually honored the defense treaty to the letter, dragging the other European major powers into the war with them. Because France and Germany had already made their minds, and were pretty much telling the other EU members to raise concern just to "shut up and stop stirring the pot". BoJo badly needed a win at the time with Partygate hanging over him iirc, and tried to make himself out as Winston Churchill, right down to his mannerisms when giving speeches.
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Aug 8, 2023 16:56
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OctaMurk posted:In 1917, the US produced 17,000 155mm shells per day with vastly inferior technology. During the Vietnam War, the US lost literally 5,000 helicopters and it was fine because we just made more. If the political willpower existed to simply order industry to make poo poo then Ukraine wouldnt have any shortages. The increase in shells is promising for the Ukrainian Army but small in historical terms. You have to wonder, if this war is really that important then why are European countries and the US not doing more to just take control of their industrial capacities to actually make some poo poo? They either dont really care that much, or are way too bought into the free market for something that should really be under heavy government control Short answer: That's capitalism, bay-bee. Long answer: Just because a nation-state's MIC is tacitly part of the government does not mean they are part of the government or even remotely government owned; in the US at least the MIC is privately-owned, publicly traded companies. Not exactly something that's easy to nationalize when Capital runs the Capitol.
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Aug 8, 2023 16:56
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HonorableTB posted:They could simply learn Latvian and take the legally required exam and submit the proper paperwork to the government if they wish to not be deported That rings a little too close to the lovely right wing talking point of 'why don't US  ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS learn english' for me to feel comfortable with IMO. But I also don't really know the nuances of Russian immigrants in post-Soviet states, so I'll defer to folks with more authority in that regard.
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Aug 8, 2023 16:58
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ishikabibble posted:That rings a little too close to the lovely right wing talking point of 'why don't US
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Aug 8, 2023 17:02
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OctaMurk posted:In 1917, the US produced 17,000 155mm shells per day with vastly inferior technology. During the Vietnam War, the US lost literally 5,000 helicopters and it was fine because we just made more. If the political willpower existed to simply order industry to make poo poo then Ukraine wouldnt have any shortages. The increase in shells is promising for the Ukrainian Army but small in historical terms. You have to wonder, if this war is really that important then why are European countries and the US not doing more to just take control of their industrial capacities to actually make some poo poo? They either dont really care that much, or are way too bought into the free market for something that should really be under heavy government control You are right. It is not very important. The current level of engagement throws up a sufficiently steep roadblock to let Russia grind itself into a pulp against it, taking a presumed power player out of the global high stakes game for a very very long time. Raising the level of engagement would end the conflict quicker, and let Russia waste less resources. Pity about the poor fucks that the war is happening to in the meantime, but them's the breaks, not very important.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:02
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Karate Bastard posted:You are right. It is not very important. The current level of engagement throws up a sufficiently steep roadblock to let Russia grind itself into a pulp against it, taking a presumed power player out of the global high stakes game for a very very long time. Raising the level of engagement would end the conflict quicker, and let Russia waste less resources.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:04
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Dwesa posted:curious, someone bought old Leo-1s and is giving them to Ukraine That last line. Geez.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:05
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ishikabibble posted:That rings a little too close to the lovely right wing talking point of 'why don't US This is a very American-centric take and the overwhelming majority of countries worldwide enforce similar requirements for getting permanent residency. The US does this as well. I cannot think of any country, actually, that does not require some level of competency in the local language for permanent residency immigration and documentation purposes
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Aug 8, 2023 17:07
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Karate Bastard posted:You are right. It is not very important. The current level of engagement throws up a sufficiently steep roadblock to let Russia grind itself into a pulp against it, taking a presumed power player out of the global high stakes game for a very very long time. Raising the level of engagement would end the conflict quicker, and let Russia waste less resources. Russia could go home today and the war would end immediately. No-one but themselves are making the Russia to "grind itself into a pulp against this sufficiently steep roadblock". But yes, let's make this a US-lead conspiracy because clearly nothing ever happens without USA being the puppetmaster behind the curtain.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:08
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CoffeeQaddaffi posted:Most if not all of the people being deported under these types of plans Russians in their 50s to 70s that have not and have no intention of integrating into their host countries by doing the simple task of learning the local loving language. They are Russians first and last, with little to no lip service paid to their host countries. Literally the worst kind of boomer scum. gently caress 'em, and gently caress anyone who says they're not a problem. I don't think governments should forcibly deport people just as much as I think governments shouldn't invade other countries. Really weird when you see arguments that anyone suggesting mass deportation in the US is doing so for racist, nationalist reasons but if another country suggests the same its in the name of protecting their cultural identity etc. No one's life should be uprooted and sent to war because their home nation's government sucks and is invading another country.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:09
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Karate Bastard posted:You are right. It is not very important. The current level of engagement throws up a sufficiently steep roadblock to let Russia grind itself into a pulp against it, taking a presumed power player out of the global high stakes game for a very very long time. Raising the level of engagement would end the conflict quicker, and let Russia waste less resources. Yes exactly, those perfidious liberals are more than happy to fight to the last Ukrainian!!!!
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Aug 8, 2023 17:10
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War sad
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Aug 8, 2023 17:10
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HKR posted:I don't think governments should forcibly deport people just as much as I think governments shouldn't invade other countries. They are literally being deported for failure to comply with immigration law, which is entirely their choice.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:11
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HonorableTB posted:They are literally being deported for failure to comply with immigration law, which is entirely their choice. why did they wait until now to enforce said law?
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Aug 8, 2023 17:12
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HKR posted:why did they wait until now to enforce said law? Lol what...
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Aug 8, 2023 17:15
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HKR posted:why did they wait until now to enforce said law? They aren't?? This law has been enforced for everyone for years. It's just getting more attention for the 5000-6000 Russians because of the war and also because the baltics stopped granting refugee visas for Russian men fleeing conscription quote:Back in the summer of 2022, Latvia supported the initiative to ban the issuance of visas to the European Union to Russian citizens. At the time, it was a manifesto against the country that unleashed a bloody war in Ukraine. This is not some mass persecution  it's a bunch of Russian citizens (not even dual citizenship with Latvia, just regular old Russian citizens!) refusing to follow the law for getting permanent residency status and finding out the consequences. Note that this only applies to the people that outright ignored the laws and refused to even attempt to be in compliance. gently caress around and find out, in action
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Aug 8, 2023 17:15
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HKR posted:why did they wait until now to enforce said law? Why in your mind aren't these countries allowed to enforce their immigration laws? And may I point out that the Russians who have double citizenship, or permanent visa, or have cleared the paperwork to apply for permanent residence are not being thrown out, only the ones who for whatever reason refuse to comply with the immigration law.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:16
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Every time the state department denies a status adjustment I think about immolating myself on the steps of the supreme court to protest the injustice
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Aug 8, 2023 17:16
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Der Kyhe posted:Why in your mind aren't these countries allowed to enforce their immigration laws? And may I point out that the Russians who have double citizenship, or permanent visa, or have cleared the paperwork to apply for permanent residence are not being thrown out, only the ones who for whatever reason refuse to comply with the immigration law. they're allowed to I just think it's wrong? Russia the state bad doesn't mean Russians the people bad. Anyone forcibly deported will likely be mobilized for the meat grinder, and rather than send more troops into Ukraine I think they shouldn't.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:20
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HKR posted:they're allowed to I just think it's wrong? Russia the state bad doesn't mean Russians the people bad. Anyone forcibly deported will likely be mobilized for the meat grinder, and rather than send more troops into Ukraine I think they shouldn't. Maybe they can pop over to the immigration office and get the visa then? It's pretty easy.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:22
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The required documents for a Latvia residence permit application are: The Latvia residence permit application form. You can find the application form at the OCMA website here, depending on your reason for requiring a residence permit. A photo of yourself. The photo must be recent and must have passport format. Proof of no prior criminal record. The document can not be older than three months. Proof of subsistence. You must prove that you can provide for yourself during your stay in Latvia. The requirement is €430/month if you are not working in Latvia. Proof of your place of residence in Latvia. This can be a lease/rental agreement, proof of Latvian property ownership, etc. Proof of paid state fees. The state fee is €4.27. Not really that hard
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Aug 8, 2023 17:24
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HKR posted:they're allowed to I just think it's wrong? Russia the state bad doesn't mean Russians the people bad. Anyone forcibly deported will likely be mobilized for the meat grinder, and rather than send more troops into Ukraine I think they shouldn't. If they don't want to be deported from the country they are trying to ostensibly be a permanent resident of, they should perhaps comply with the laws that allow for them to continue avoiding becoming the next private conscriptovich. This is not being forcibly done to them. They are willfully doing it to themselves
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Aug 8, 2023 17:24
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Seal Russians inside Russia and have them live with what they made until they decide to improve their situation or have an ultra-tantrum and nuke the planet. It’s a valid policy and I hope president to-be Harris will enact it as soon as peace-nik Biden steps aside.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:25
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Der Kyhe posted:Russia could go home today and the war would end immediately. No-one but themselves are making the Russia to "grind itself into a pulp against this sufficiently steep roadblock". HonorableTB posted:Key difference being in WW1 and WW2 the US was in a total war economy while fighting in those wars directly. That is not the case now. It is important but make no mistake it is not as important to the US as a war that involved extensive conscription and mobilization of the entire American society. The degree to which American society changed in order to produce the manufacturing and arms industry you're talking about resulted in cataclysmic changes to the status quo and directly led to women being able to vote, in the case of WW1. The situations and scales are vastly different CoffeeQaddaffi posted:Short answer: That's capitalism, bay-bee.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:25
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Der Kyhe posted:Russia could go home today and the war would end immediately. No-one but themselves are making the Russia to "grind itself into a pulp against this sufficiently steep roadblock". Oh no that's not what I meant. Russia is 100% at fault here, for starting and insisting on continuing an imperialistic and massively wasteful land war of aggression with no prospects of victory against a neighboring sovereign state. Putin did this, and chooses to go on with it. Putin could at any point of his own choosing take his toys and go home instead, but he does not. Sure, we could end this faster if we wanted to, but Putin could do it much easier and much more cheaply, and he chooses to instead carry on with the terror bombing and war crimes against his own and against others. Putin is a real piece of poo poo. Russia go home.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:26
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mobby_6kl posted:Ukraine has no choice in that though, which is the problem. You cannot just "put an order out for the shells" to procure them. Shells are built in factories. Factories take time and a lot of money to build. Then you have to staff them with experienced people (if you don't want your new factory to blow up), which takes longer and costs more money. It is such an arduous task to set up a 155mm shell factory with accompanying logistical requirements that the companies that can build them will not do so without a multi year government contract. Luckily the US has done just that with artillery ammunition production specifically. These things do not happen overnight lol
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Aug 8, 2023 17:30
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RDM posted:Do you think visas are an American right wing conspiracy? Most immigrants I know don't have many positive things to say about being in the US on a visa Hell, a friend of mine is an immigrant from the Netherlands and was advised by two different immigration lawyers that the best way for them to settle in the US with their partner is some ridiculous scheme of overstaying a travel visa and then marrying. The marriage was the plan anyways, but it is kind of absurd that's the only path forward that won't take literal years to make happen.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:34
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mobby_6kl posted:The US only entered WW1 on April of 1917. So it was either done under non-war economy or ramped up in under 8 months using 1917 technology. ishikabibble posted:Most immigrants I know don't have many positive things to say about being in the US on a visa
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Aug 8, 2023 17:36
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ishikabibble posted:Most immigrants I know don't have many positive things to say about being in the US on a visa European immigration is much different than the US hell system, especially if you're already a citizen of an EU country. The American system is a nightmare that nobody should have to deal with it but also has nothing to do with the Latvian immigration requirements RDM posted:IIRC, a lot of the WW1 shells were smaller-caliber (e.g. 75mm). If you just look at the 155mm+ caliber shells the numbers are a lot smaller (like production peaking at 3-4k shells per day). Almost all US 105mm and 155mm shell production comes from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scran...se.?wprov=sfla1 HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 8, 2023 |
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Aug 8, 2023 17:36
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mobby_6kl posted:The US only entered WW1 on April of 1917. So it was either done under non-war economy or ramped up in under 8 months using 1917 technology. You forgot the third option: The United States is a massive war profiteer and was already ramped up to sell arms to people during WW1, even before they officially entered the fight. Which is, you know, the actual answer.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:39
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ishikabibble posted:Most immigrants I know don't have many positive things to say about being in the US on a visa wow just like the war in Ukraine
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Aug 8, 2023 17:41
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mobby_6kl posted:Yeah exactly... you can just put out an order for the shells and if there's enough money on the table, it'll happen. There isn't the money on the table, that's the biggest issue. The 'billions' in aid that have been given to Ukraine so far has been mostly in already existing equipment sitting unused in US stores that was determined to not detrimentally affect US military readiness if passed on to Ukraine. The only 'value' it had was more for accountability than anything actually monetary - if it didn't go to Ukraine, then it would've just kept sitting for decades more before being cut up and sold as scrap. It's an entirely different matter to actually spend to spin up new production, as that's suddenly now taking money out of the US budget and allocating it towards that.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:41
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HonorableTB posted:Almost all US 105mm and 155mm shell production comes from here
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Aug 8, 2023 17:47
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