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Prism posted:Shame it's 40k and thus bad. 
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Aug 8, 2023 17:51
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BG3 rules. 5E sucks. I might have a decent time in a 5E game if it had BG3 rules since my personal big bugbear is melees not having interesting decisions in 5th. That said, I am going to devil's advocate for 5E here for a little bit. While I find that it becoming the most popular D&D ever personally galling, and to some degree this was a huge lucky break for some of the worst designers that it was out during the pandemic and some big streamers picked it up and then Stranger Things, I have to admit it did do a couple of things "right." The first is that the math is simple as poo poo. I have seen so, so many people struggle with math in other editions over the years. Whether it's the sometimes weirdly complex crit multipliers of 3rd to the endless modifiers to keep track of in 4th, or just the balking at the mere concept of thac0, people just never grocked it. 5th ed's math is simple enough that small children can handle it and this matters a lot for people trying to do family game nights. The second is analysis paralysis is real. I personally hate the lack of options in 5th ed, but I had read multiple splat books for fun back in earlier editions. I had near encyclopedic knowledge of feats and spells and races and classes and I enjoyed using all this information to make busted poo poo. Most people don't do this. If you give a person a feat list longer than what's in the PHB, their eyes are going to glaze over. A not insignificant plurality of people do that even with just the PHB. This was made abundantly clear during my 4th edition days where I would constantly watch the less mechanically inclined players have an easy enough time picking out the powers they thought were cool and fun (because even at it's most bloated this was like, 12 choices at most) but needing me or someone else to pick their feats or magic items because there were literally thousands to choose from.
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Aug 8, 2023 17:58
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Been playing Trials of Cold Steel and its fine just fine
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Aug 8, 2023 17:59
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lunar detritus posted:I keep seeing memes about BG3 dice, is it really that RNG heavy? It's got a lot of dice rolling. It's not *as* good as DE but there's a fair number of situations where failure can lead to more interesting outcomes than success. (Also fights.) It's generally designed around the idea that you deal with the consequence of a bad roll but you have a lot of ways to mitigate bad rolls. For example you can get Inspiration Dice by doing things that fit your character concept and then spend those to reroll any ability check. There's also a "Karma Dice" feature which apparently normalizes rolls but I turned that off.
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Aug 8, 2023 18:00
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they should make mystery rpg video games using the GUMSHOE system
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Aug 8, 2023 18:05
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If we're venting about TTRPGs here: I really don't like Apocalypse World/Powered by the Apocalypse, which is bad for me when every indie RPG uses it. I strongly disagree with the concept of tying classes to personality archetypes (like the white mage healer getting +1 die when they protect their friends) even though I understand the efficiency of it. That's all, it's off my chest.
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Aug 8, 2023 18:12
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i mean that is less about efficiency and more it doing its story game thing i thought everyone moved on from PBTA to FITD anyway
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Aug 8, 2023 18:22
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Snooze Cruise posted:i mean that is less about efficiency and more it doing its story game thing My experience is very specifically dated, I lost interest in following tabletop stuff a few years ago because the overwhelming negative vibes about the major players was kind of a bummer (nothing against the 5E and Games Workshop haters in this thread, I just mean the community atmosphere in general) and I didn't like any of the indie darlings either. Maybe I should see what this Forged in the Dark thing is about.
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Aug 8, 2023 18:28
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Blades in the Dark is cool, and honestly I think it and Call of Cthulhu/Delta Green make for way better podcasts than 5E too.
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Aug 8, 2023 18:34
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:Blades in the Dark is cool, and honestly I think it and Call of Cthulhu/Delta Green make for way better podcasts than 5E too. What are good COC podcasts, I'm curious? (Though I admit I prefer comedy over standard so maybe COC ain't for me.)
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Aug 8, 2023 18:35
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ImpAtom posted:What are good COC podcasts, I'm curious? (Though I admit I prefer comedy over standard so maybe COC ain't for me.) There's definitely more out there for Delta Green than CoC, but I can recommend the Shanghaied episode of RPPR for sure. RPPR has a lot of other Call of Cthulhu episodes too, but the main GM (who was a player for Shanghaied) has some verbal tics that can be a little frustrating for me when he GMs, so YMMV. Glass Cannon's doing Masks of Nyarlathotep in their Time for Chaos series, and has some other non-campaign episodes on their youtube channel too.
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Aug 8, 2023 18:42
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lunar detritus posted:I keep seeing memes about BG3 dice, is it really that RNG heavy? There are also apparently two dice settings you can use: true randomness, or "karmic" dice which trend toward average over a large number of checks to help break up success and failure streaks. And also it has already turned into a big joke with a streamer I follow as her first roll of the game, with karmic dice off, was a 1 and it literally blew up in her face. Failboattootoot posted:The second is analysis paralysis is real. I personally hate the lack of options in 5th ed, but I had read multiple splat books for fun back in earlier editions. I had near encyclopedic knowledge of feats and spells and races and classes and I enjoyed using all this information to make busted poo poo. Most people don't do this. If you give a person a feat list longer than what's in the PHB, their eyes are going to glaze over. A not insignificant plurality of people do that even with just the PHB. This was made abundantly clear during my 4th edition days where I would constantly watch the less mechanically inclined players have an easy enough time picking out the powers they thought were cool and fun (because even at it's most bloated this was like, 12 choices at most) but needing me or someone else to pick their feats or magic items because there were literally thousands to choose from. I started as the kind of person who would read huge lists of feats, spells, items, etc. for fun but have over the past ~15 years just become completely exhausted by the idea. It's not even analysis and decision paralysis, it's that so much of this stuff isn't really interesting anymore. And that can be a killer even faster than paralysis, when something you're supposed to spend a ton of time analyzing is just dull to do. Eventually I realized that these giant piles of Options and Toys and Tools were like 95% things I'd never engage with unless I had a game going literally every night. CRPGs are a little better for that because then at least you're managing a whole party of characters to explore all the options with at once.
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Aug 8, 2023 19:06
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5e was not great for invested fans coming off previous editions wanting something meaty like 3.5's char-op and more detailed rules. It's a very poor successor at giving the players freedom to make a lot of meaningful choices in making their character. 3.5's char-op was also really bad from a DMs perspective because it leads to a lot of people running hyper-specialized optimal characters that were bonzo at a few things then were worthless dipshits when confronted with anything else, which leads to having to make encounters either super-tuned to the guy who specialized in social skills couldn't +30 Diplomacy past the entire political part of the campaign at the cost of making everyone else present active detriments if they opened their mouth, or you made something everyone else got a reasonable chance at participating in while having to find a way to make Mr. Charisma take an impromptu nap or get locked in a closet to not ruin the fun for everyone else. Your groups needs to be very cool with characters playing specific roles and sometimes just not getting to play the game and that can be a rough sell to folks who aren't coming in to play a power build. Also, my much more casual current group definitely appreciates the less rigid structure of 5e. Whenever this group gets introduced to a new game like Pathfinder 1e, Starfinder, Warhammer etc one of the first comments is the group collectively going 'Can we just do this in 5e instead? This is asking a lot more for the same thing.' and I think that's absolutely something 5e's slimmmer rules package and greater emphasis on DM Fiat/Judgement excels at for less-invested players. (Also, for all of 4E's faults it remains my favorite D&D for pure mechanically-driven adventures- if I'm gonna be doing a campaign that's just a raw-rear end dungeon crawl into a foreign ecosystem with very little other frills and other things like social moments and skill challenges are going to be directly tied to said Crawl instead of major aspects of a more balanced campaign, gimmie 4e over 3.5 OR 5.)
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Aug 8, 2023 19:26
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yeah but you can play less rigid structure trpgs that are not dnd and therefore are better games
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Aug 8, 2023 19:31
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in many ways dnd is the wwe of rpg systems
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Aug 8, 2023 19:33
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Is d&d pro skub or anti skub?
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Aug 8, 2023 19:34
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For the love of God stop playing, you're not having fun!!
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Aug 8, 2023 19:40
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Terper posted:For the love of God stop playing, you're not having fun!! Every time you post I pretend it's Draug posting
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Aug 8, 2023 19:47
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Terper posted:For the love of God stop playing, you're not having fun!! I've mostly done this! Moved on to board games since I was always way more of a systems guy. I am still in a 5th ed game I don't much care for for multiple reasons mostly just as a way to spend some time with my partners friend group so for external reasons I am trapped.
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Aug 8, 2023 19:51
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ultimately the most popular trpg system in the world, so popular that people often just refer to the hobby itself as dnd, had both a neo nazi and sexual abuser involved in the creation of 5e. and the guy who hired them forwarded emails with identifying information of the sexual abuser's accusers. pretty disheartening stuff.
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Aug 8, 2023 20:02
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Meowywitch posted:Is d&d pro skub or anti skub? 5e is anti-skub. 3e had complete skub and complete skub II, it was very pro-skub.
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Aug 8, 2023 20:06
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Snooze Cruise posted:ultimately the most popular trpg system in the world, so popular that people often just refer to the hobby itself as dnd, had both a neo nazi and sexual abuser involved in the creation of 5e. and the guy who hired them forwarded emails with identifying information of the sexual abuser's accusers. pretty disheartening stuff. And the sexual abuser even sued someone for signal boosting his accusers because they lived in a country whose libel and slander laws heavily favored the plaintiff. The person sued was a mod of SA's own tradgames forum at the time and this lawsuit is the reason they were forced to step down from the position. I try to judge 5e on its own merits but that sort of association is hard to forget.
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Aug 8, 2023 20:09
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Aatrek's presence still looms over these forums... Tragic
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Aug 8, 2023 20:12
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Aug 8, 2023 20:23
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Oh I misread sorry
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Aug 8, 2023 20:24
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Meowywitch posted:Oh I misread sorry lol
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Aug 8, 2023 20:27
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Meowywitch posted:Oh I misread sorry lol
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Aug 8, 2023 20:27
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Installing a mod that removes the short rest for powers and turns them into just once per encounter like 4e has made BG3 infinitely better already.
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Aug 8, 2023 20:30
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Installing a mod that removes the short rest for powers and turns them into just once per encounter like 4e has made BG3 infinitely better already. But but but a muscle man should be able to swing his sword the same every time all day!
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Aug 8, 2023 20:32
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My favorite thing about Pillars of Eternity 2 is that I can just use the majority of my abilities every single fight, and the encounters are more fun due to that. I don't mind having some limitations like the Watcher powers and enhancing a single spell per combat, up to 3 per rest, and having the rest available again every fight is great.
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Aug 8, 2023 20:43
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It's too powerful that you can bonk a guy on the head with a hammer more than once without having to take a nappy. Meanwhile a wizard can do a billion damage in a giant aoe multiple times per rest, but that's no biggie.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:00
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Ibram Gaunt posted:It's too powerful that you can bonk a guy on the head with a hammer more than once without having to take a nappy. Meanwhile a wizard can do a billion damage in a giant aoe multiple times per rest, but that's no biggie. I mean it kind of objectively is. I don't know about 5E proper but in BG3 melee fighters are absolutely insane shitwreckers who regularly clear out entire waves by themselves and tank damage for days. Wizards can Fireball multiple times but Karlach is a demonic buzzsaw. poo poo, I once had her kill five people in a single turn just by throwing them at each other in a rage and she can do that basically every single fight. Wizards are really good too mind you but their utility spells are probably more gamebreakingly strong than their combat abilities. Like yeah, Fireball is nice I guess, but why would I want to use Fireball when I can use Fly to utterly trivialize enemy positioning and nosell a puzzle instead? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 8, 2023 |
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Aug 8, 2023 21:08
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mila kunis posted:I found the environment stuff and the armor system in dos2 kinda tedious. I guess BG3 is more of the same? not really? the armor system is completely gone (because it’s just d&d), there definitely are still environmental effects in combat but it’s incredibly downplayed compared to every encounter in dos2 ending in a storm of poison, oil, and fire it’s still more of the same in the sense of being turn based four character CRPG combat i guess
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Aug 8, 2023 21:13
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Snooze Cruise posted:in many ways dnd is the wwe of rpg systems Brutal
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Aug 8, 2023 21:13
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ImpAtom posted:I mean it kind of objectively is. I don't know about 5E proper but in BG3 melee fighters are absolutely insane shitwreckers who regularly clear out entire waves by themselves and tank damage for days. Wizards can Fireball multiple times but Karlach is a demonic buzzsaw. poo poo, I once had her kill five people in a single turn just by throwing them at each other in a rage and she can do that basically every single fight. BG3 did some work to make martial classes stronger, yes but I think 5e inherently needing to put once per rest cooldowns on basic things like "rush attack" is extremely stupid in the same game with spellcasters having all the utility they do.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:14
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Ibram Gaunt posted:BG3 did some work to make martial classes stronger, yes but I think 5e inherently needing to put once per rest cooldowns on basic things like "rush attack" is extremely stupid in the same game with spellcasters having all the utility they do. I admit I don't quite get the issue there because it works for Short Rests too and you get at least 2 of those per Long Rest period (more with specific classes) and I feel like by the end of enough encounters to need 2-3 short rests I'm ready for a long rest anyway if just because the wizards start to run low on slots too.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:21
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Ibram Gaunt posted:BG3 did some work to make martial classes stronger, yes but I think 5e inherently needing to put once per rest cooldowns on basic things like "rush attack" is extremely stupid in the same game with spellcasters having all the utility they do. Rush attack especially bothers me because like.. it's just running at a person real fast and swinging your weapon at them You telling me my super strong, well trained fighters and barbarians can't.. run twice in the same day without an hour of chilling to make sure they don't get winded or something?
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Aug 8, 2023 21:21
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Basically D&D (and similar) physical/martial abilities tend to be written by people whose understanding of what the human body can accomplish is limited by their own, rather than looking at athletes, prizefighters, soldiers, etc. Meanwhile magical powers are only limited by whatever the designer can think up with no real conceptual barriers to refine their ideas down thematically or functionally and this is why magic in D&D and its descendants tends to be the Sonic Screwdriver of universal utility.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:32
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Weird Pumpkin posted:Rush attack especially bothers me because like.. it's just running at a person real fast and swinging your weapon at them I mean at the end of the day it's a game mechanic. It isn't realistic because it isn't trying to be realistic, at best it's trying to model the idea of exerting yourself beyond the norm. It makes as much sense as "I can duck behind this box and now I am hidden and can stealth attack you without consequence" or "I am an all-powerful wizard but I can cast exactly as many spells as I have magical slots and also I forget how to cast spells sometimes and also some spells I can cast as much as I want without any consequences."
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Aug 8, 2023 21:34
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| # ? May 23, 2024 21:48 |
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ImpAtom posted:I mean at the end of the day it's a game mechanic. It isn't realistic because it isn't trying to be realistic, at best it's trying to model the idea of exerting yourself beyond the norm. It makes as much sense as "I can duck behind this box and now I am hidden and can stealth attack you without consequence" or "I am an all-powerful wizard but I can cast exactly as many spells as I have magical slots and also I forget how to cast spells sometimes and also some spells I can cast as much as I want without any consequences." You'd be surprised at what wack rear end limitations get written into martial classes for "realism" purposes rather than for game balance reasons. What I'm saying is, you might not necessarily be wrong, but people writing for D&D have a history of making this kind of decision because they mistakenly think it is realistic and with no real concerns for game design beyond that. Simulationism is a hell of a drug, especially when heavily biased on the writer's part.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:36
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