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Hadlock posted:if you look in the background of cp_steel, there's "travel posters" for visiting the lost continents, and knifeback mountain plastered on the walls in several different areas, they're pretty good sized, uh, proportionally XL movie poster sized It's fun since steel was the 2nd map to be added, that all maps after it have those posters available to be used as decorations. So now you see them plastered everywhere. There were 4 communities from testing: Knifeback, Lost Continents, and The Hampshire Heavies. The 4th was the 2fort2furious servers from team roomba but Floormaster politely declined putting it in.
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Jul 31, 2023 10:54
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Fishbus posted:The 4th was the 2fort2furious servers from team roomba but Floormaster politely declined putting it in. I remember people on 2f2f talking about how it didn't get a poster in the official version. I don't know if Floormaster ever actually told the userbase that he had declined it, people at the time seemed to think that Valve had it removed for some reason.
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Jul 31, 2023 11:58
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It could have been tricky to navigate the IP issue, but who knows.
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Jul 31, 2023 12:33
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cock hero flux posted:I remember people on 2f2f talking about how it didn't get a poster in the official version. I don't know if Floormaster ever actually told the userbase that he had declined it, people at the time seemed to think that Valve had it removed for some reason. Don't know what happened there, but I went around the server folk for consent. FYI I still have the mockup of the poster:
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Jul 31, 2023 12:42
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Having spent my fair share of time on 2f2f back in the day I could see Floormaster declining a poster. It got a reputation as "the cool server" and consequently attracted a lot of people trying way too hard to be cool all the time.
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Jul 31, 2023 16:53
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now i'm curious if the 100% crits mario_kart server is still up
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Jul 31, 2023 22:38
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Every time I hop on I check for Mario kart, there's always a few servers but theyre always empty 
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Jul 31, 2023 23:17
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Now I wanna see a mariokart server with the new 100 max players playercount
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Aug 4, 2023 05:32
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Geight posted:Now I wanna see a mariokart server with the new 100 max players playercount
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Aug 4, 2023 14:57
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Been getting back into the game like many others after a long period of not playing. However I've also been getting the itch to get back into map making, I made 3 or 4 maps back in the day which never really gained any traction but were still fun side projects. tf2maps.net seems dead, is there any currently-active community for mapmaking + public playtesting? Was a lot of fun playtesting maps with big groups, both getting feedback for ones I'd worked on but also seeing the cool ideas other people were fleshing out.
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Aug 7, 2023 19:38
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CodfishCartographer posted:Been getting back into the game like many others after a long period of not playing. However I've also been getting the itch to get back into map making, I made 3 or 4 maps back in the day which never really gained any traction but were still fun side projects. tf2maps.net seems dead, is there any currently-active community for mapmaking + public playtesting? Was a lot of fun playtesting maps with big groups, both getting feedback for ones I'd worked on but also seeing the cool ideas other people were fleshing out. Got links to your maps?
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Aug 7, 2023 19:45
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drrockso20 posted:Got links to your maps? They're like a decade old and not very good, but apparently I only uploaded two of em to the workshop (both uploaded years after being made) - cp_clash and ctf_gumption. I also had a map called pl_bayou that isn't on the workshop but I ran on a server I owned for a while. Clash was a weird attempt to make a symmetric version of "pyramid" CP maps like gravelpit - one central neutral point that's locked, then each team had two points they had to try and steal, then if you did so your team could capture the center point. Would have made much more sense to have two central points and one locked point per team, but this was my first full map and was also made within a week for a contest so I'm still happy with it lol. Gumption was made for a tf2maps ctf contest, looking back on it the layout is pretty flat and boring but I'm happy with the detailing I did. Bayou was an attempt to make a pl map where the cart moved along water, it never got to the for-realsies detailing phase, it also got an okay amount of playtime on a server I owned back in like 2009. I remember liking the layout at the time, but remembering back I think it was also very flat, though with a good amount of water allowing for sneaking access into various buildings. I actually met with Robin Walker at GDC around this time and discussed the map with him a bit, I remember talking about struggling to make the map fun for pyros and his response was "gently caress pyros" lmao Looking back I definitely struggled with creating maps that were dynamic vertically, probably because I used a whiteboard to plan them out - so they were naturally designed with a 2D, top-down view in mind. I was also just new to game / level design in general. Aside from those three, I had a 5 point A/D CP map I tested on tf2maps a few times, can't remember the name but it was egypt-themed. Same with a ctf map that had a large ravine in the center with various routes to cross.
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Aug 7, 2023 20:13
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CodfishCartographer posted:Been getting back into the game like many others after a long period of not playing. However I've also been getting the itch to get back into map making, I made 3 or 4 maps back in the day which never really gained any traction but were still fun side projects. tf2maps.net seems dead, is there any currently-active community for mapmaking + public playtesting? Was a lot of fun playtesting maps with big groups, both getting feedback for ones I'd worked on but also seeing the cool ideas other people were fleshing out. TF2Maps is still big, but everything happens on the discord now. They have servers that you can upload a map and get a quick playtest on and the channels are very active. The forum is mostly an asset repository now, though
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Aug 7, 2023 23:55
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CodfishCartographer posted:Been getting back into the game like many others after a long period of not playing. However I've also been getting the itch to get back into map making, I made 3 or 4 maps back in the day which never really gained any traction but were still fun side projects. tf2maps.net seems dead, is there any currently-active community for mapmaking + public playtesting? Was a lot of fun playtesting maps with big groups, both getting feedback for ones I'd worked on but also seeing the cool ideas other people were fleshing out. Hello fellow fish mapper. I personally try to find a TF2 community or discord these days and then drum up a little hype with folks. I much prefer a community of 'diverse' players... I'm starting to go into doing some tf2 level stuff again after faffing around with Steel. I'm always available to talk shop if you need to on steam I'm also streaming on twitch again to do maps and level stuff while imparting knowledge as a kobold engineer.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:30
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Hello. Over the years ive played a lot of hours in your map and its very good. Thank you for making it. Farewell.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:53
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Seconded, Steel is good and the recent changes are all reasonable to good. Thank you for your service.
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Aug 9, 2023 16:50
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cp_steel is the only stamp i bought
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Aug 9, 2023 18:52
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delete sniper
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Aug 9, 2023 19:06
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:delete sniper
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Aug 9, 2023 19:07
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:delete sniper It's wild coming back to the community after like 7-8 years and seeing this being such a prevalent mindset. I remember back in the day lots of people thought snipers were near useless - I remember seeing posts along the lines of "well demoman and soldier get more kills than sniper, and can more easily destroy engie nests! why would you ever want a sniper??"
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Aug 9, 2023 19:25
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CodfishCartographer posted:It's wild coming back to the community after like 7-8 years and seeing this being such a prevalent mindset. I remember back in the day lots of people thought snipers were near useless - I remember seeing posts along the lines of "well demoman and soldier get more kills than sniper, and can more easily destroy engie nests! why would you ever want a sniper??" I don't think this has ever changed. A good sniper is worth 12 bad snipers.
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Aug 9, 2023 19:29
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Fishbus posted:Hello fellow fish mapper. I ran into a silly issue with the new gate on Steel A the other day where instead of walking through it I wound up being popped into the air by the gate closing on me. It happened accidentally a few times which can maybe get you killed if you pop into an enemy's view. You can do it deliberately if you crouch towards the edge and get the gate to try closing on you. Huntsman snipers can definitely get a shot off at blue players leaving the spawn area. If you manage to do it deliberately while running straight through you'll have enough horizontal momentum that any class can reach the other side, which technically they could with that little shack going the long way around (actually, can heavies?), but it's a lot safer to fail at when the round starts. Would definitely let an engineer carry a sentry and drop it up there or just let explosive classes not have to take damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTufzSMzTZs
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Aug 9, 2023 19:31
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CodfishCartographer posted:It's wild coming back to the community after like 7-8 years and seeing this being such a prevalent mindset. I remember back in the day lots of people thought snipers were near useless - I remember seeing posts along the lines of "well demoman and soldier get more kills than sniper, and can more easily destroy engie nests! why would you ever want a sniper??" That ways always about the average player, which was pretty dire for the first several years after the game went F2P. An inexperienced player playing as sniper is going to accomplish approximately nothing, where they would at least be able to spread some splash around and soak up a few rockets if they played an explosive class. A good sniper (let alone an aimbot) has always been brutal on any map dumb enough to give them an inch.
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Aug 9, 2023 19:31
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CodfishCartographer posted:It's wild coming back to the community after like 7-8 years and seeing this being such a prevalent mindset. I remember back in the day lots of people thought snipers were near useless - I remember seeing posts along the lines of "well demoman and soldier get more kills than sniper, and can more easily destroy engie nests! why would you ever want a sniper??" I think the Sniper is OP wave is actually fairly recent, it seems like it only really became a thing within the last few years of theorycrafting. Before that during the heyday of Team Fortress 2 the most bitched about character was probably Soldier?
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Aug 9, 2023 19:32
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I don’t like sniper because I am very bad at playing sniper
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Aug 9, 2023 19:33
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No one likes being insta killed by someone so far away that they couldn't do anything about it, it's just frustrating. You don't feel like you've been out played, you feel like you've been cheated. I don't have a problem with snipers, but that's where the anger comes from. It's the same problem I have as medic when I'm watching the slow scout walk towards me, and I'm using the audio for "Spy!", but none of the three people I'm healing turn around to help me and I lose a 1 v 1 and then see the heavy get back stabbed. Something I think about a lot when playing competitive FPSs like Overwatch was when I was playing TF2 six's with goons back in the day. I wasn't a great a player and one time I got told to baby sit our point as scout. Well, the enemy scout came up, killed me, and won the round. Someone angrily started asking what we'd done wrong but the team captain calmly explained that we'd just lost a 1v1, it happens. I guess my point being there's a lot of poo poo in a class based FPs (snipers making long sight lines unsafe, inattentive teammates leaving you at the mercy of ambushers, and perfectly good plans failing because you just weren't as good at fragging as the other person) that are all perfectly fine, valid, and balanced in the larger context of the game, but it feels bad when it happens to you.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:01
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Jack B Nimble posted:No one likes being insta killed by someone so far away that they couldn't do anything about it, it's just frustrating. You don't feel like you've been out played, you feel like you've been cheated. yeah the reasons snipers suck the fun out of games are 2fold: 1. if they're bad and on your team, they make the game unfun in ways that a bad soldier or heavy or medic or demoman or scout don't 2. if they're good and not on your team, they make the game unfun in ways that a good soldier or heavy or medic or demoman or scout don't it's ultimately just lose/lose in terms of the population at large enjoying the game but of course it is fun to be the person playing sniper so every fps has to have them
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Aug 9, 2023 20:24
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Jack B Nimble posted:No one likes being insta killed by someone so far away that they couldn't do anything about it, it's just frustrating. You don't feel like you've been out played, you feel like you've been cheated. There is always counterplay available in the form of alternate routes, it's just that on some maps those alternate routes involve connecting to a different server playing a different map.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:39
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Dr. Dos posted:I ran into a silly issue with the new gate on Steel A the other day where instead of walking through it I wound up being popped into the air by the gate closing on me. Currently have it a more rarer, and reasonable trajectory. I don't think I can completely remove it after looking at many other examples in maps, which have different issues when you toe the line, like getting stuck in the clipping of the door a little. https://clips.twitch.tv/StupidNeighborlyPeanutKappaPride-Sm-D5ENDjwBiEN52
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Aug 9, 2023 20:40
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Yeah I totally get why snipers get hate nowadays, mostly was just pointing out how funny / jarring it was after being gone for so long to see how the zeitgeist has shifted. Spy's a similar case - it's interesting seeing everyone talk about how it's a "badly designed" class or how it's the worst one or whatever. Granted as people have gotten older with the game knowledge of how to deal with spies is certainly more commonplace, but I wouldn't go anywhere close to calling them a "bad" class. Also funny seeing Scout listed as the best disguise to go for, when back in the day everyone would advise to NEVER disguise as scout because the speed difference is so obvious. I'd think that with more awareness of spies nowadays, that advice would be more true than ever!
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Aug 9, 2023 20:41
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I tried to be clear in my post that it's irrelevant if there are alternate paths and ways to avoid the sight lines, I was trying to highlight how it makes people feel. It Feels Bad to step around a corner into the Big Fight Room, get killed, and have the camera go all the way over to the far balcony. It doesn't matter if the sniper gets one kill a minute and his team is losing; right then, right there, the player that got headshot isn't happy, and that's what leads to these outcries.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:54
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the problem with "snipers have counterplay" is the counterplay of "don't ever set foot in that segment of the map" sucks rear end, despite maybe or maybe not being competitively balanced or whatever
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Aug 9, 2023 20:56
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CodfishCartographer posted:Spy's a similar case - it's interesting seeing everyone talk about how it's a "badly designed" class or how it's the worst one or whatever. Granted as people have gotten older with the game knowledge of how to deal with spies is certainly more commonplace, but I wouldn't go anywhere close to calling them a "bad" class. Also funny seeing Scout listed as the best disguise to go for, when back in the day everyone would advise to NEVER disguise as scout because the speed difference is so obvious. I'd think that with more awareness of spies nowadays, that advice would be more true than ever! That's mostly because spy's base move speed got buffed to medic speed, so disguising as an average speed class slows you down. Conventional wisdom is to assume that your disguise is probably not going to save you if you get spotted, so you might as well go for speed over stealth. Your only options for moving at full speed are spy, scout, or medic; medic is even more obvious than scout and will definitely make enemies pay attention to you, and spy is still pretty suspicious especially if you use it all the time, so you might as well pick scout and hope the small model throws people's aim off.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:59
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cp_steel is one of the shittier maps to snipe on, making it good.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:10
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Jack B Nimble posted:I tried to be clear in my post that it's irrelevant if there are alternate paths and ways to avoid the sight lines, I was trying to highlight how it makes people feel. Yeah, and you're wrong. It really does make a difference when a sniper can lock down an unavoidable chokepoint from a safe perch vs. when they have to take actual risks if they want to contribute.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:13
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the holy poopacy posted:Yeah, and you're wrong. It really does make a difference when a sniper can lock down an unavoidable chokepoint from a safe perch vs. when they have to take actual risks if they want to contribute. I'm not the person who feels this way, I'm explaining to you why other people feel this way, and when you insist that they shouldn't you just seem kinda dumb.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:18
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The worst part is the point-blank headshots. A vignette to consider: I'm on BLU on pl_barnblitz. We captured the second point, but are having difficulty pushing through the tunnel where the second point is because a sniper is sitting in the stairway with the medium health pack and instantly deleting anyone who turns the corner. I'm an Engineer. I take the flank route up the side stairs to the left of the main tunnel, drop down, and walk along the left side area over the second point. I get out to our sniper deck, drop down, and go into the stairwell where that sniper is. He doesn't notice me until I hit him with a 70 damage meatshot. He unscopes and drops off the stairs he was on. My aim sucks because of this so I don't hit the second shot too well, but I've inflicted 90 total damage. Still, I should have this in the bag, right? In a positioning-based shooter, I have successfully flanked and brought a class whose specialty is long-range picks into my specialty area and what should be his weakest area -- short-ranged combat. No. He hits right click, waits 0.2 seconds, then deletes me from full health.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:32
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Jack B Nimble posted:I'm not the person who feels this way, I'm explaining to you why other people feel this way, and when you insist that they shouldn't you just seem kinda dumb. People feel bad when they are killed, especially in ways where they had no agency, and the less agency they had in that situation the worse they feel. Please explain what part of this statement sounds dumb.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:34
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Way I see it there's an important balancing act that is needed when it comes to map design regarding Sniper*, go too heavy with Sniper sight lines & vantage points and it becomes too easy for a good Sniper(or a cheater/bot) to crush a server, but on the other hand it is also possible to go too light with those same things and make a map that makes it too hard for a Sniper to contribute to the match and that is almost just as bad as the former *this kind of thing happens with all classes but it is the most noticeable with Sniper, though Engineer is a close second(though unlike Sniper where it is more common for maps to accidentally make him too strong, most maps tend to undercut Engineer's viability lower than it should be, usually by giving the other team too generous of sight lines so they can just explosive spam out any nest of his and/or by giving the other team too many flank routes making it too easy to either ignore the Engineer's nest or overly compromise its ability to cover the objective)
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Aug 9, 2023 21:40
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The map as a whole has some issues but I think forge does a really good job of balancing sniper sightlines. Wasn't that the last map valve designed in-house for the game?
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Aug 9, 2023 21:42
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