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Der Kyhe posted:I might be misremembering this, but wasn't the roles of Picard and Riker basically switched in the story fairly late into the pre-production process? The original plan was that Picard goes to planet to ensure that the first flight happens as it should, him being historian and an archeologist and all. And Riker stays onboard to fight for the borg. Yup, it's come up before in the thread, though it wasn't that late in production. In the first draft that went out, the A-plot was Picard on Earth working to preserve the timeline, with the added complication of Cochrane being hurt in the Borg attack and Picard having to potentially take his place if he dies. The B-plot was Riker cleaning up the Borg on the Enterprise. Two things happened: Stewart had his usual "nope, give me the action plot, historians don't get laid" response, and the writers realized "hey, Picard is the one with serious history with the Borg, the movie's real dumb if Picard doesn't fight the Borg." So the plots got switched.
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Aug 7, 2023 18:11
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Veotax posted:From what I heard, he wasn't fired, but he was only contracted to work on Picard seasons 2 & 3 or something (and he didn't do much on 2). So now that those are done, he's out the door. I mean, that's par for the course when it comes to writers and of course he's not going to be executive producing a show that's ended. nine-gear crow made it sound like Paramount made a conscious decision to sever ties for the future, but that didn't happen. It's just the natural conclusion of one project and he could very well be hired for another if Paramount decided to move forward on anything. I get a chuckle out of the whole "woke mind virus" interpretation of the season since pretty much of course the old guys are going to be the heroes of a season that's specifically about their sendoff. So, you would be able to shoehorn that interpretation into any plot for the season. The thing had issues, but most of them I can see now is due to the very reasons why the writers are currently striking. I also find it rich that people are all up in arms around the characterizations in Picard while touting First Contact as the best TNG movie. At least in Picard you have the fact that time can and does change people. In First Contact, it's barely been a few years since he (twice) encountered the Borg and now suddenly he can't cope and is gunning down his own crew without mercy.
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Aug 7, 2023 19:53
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They even cast a boomer as Picard's zoomer son.
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Aug 7, 2023 20:00
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“What are you…22-23?” 40 year old man: “yes”
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Aug 7, 2023 20:06
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I dislike Picard(TV) and First Contact thank you very much
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Aug 7, 2023 20:20
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bull3964 posted:nine-gear crow made it sound like Paramount made a conscious decision to sever ties for the future, but that didn't happen. It's just the natural conclusion of one project and he could very well be hired for another if Paramount decided to move forward on anything. Yeah, "fired" was editorializing a bit, but yeah after Picard wrapped, Matalas went to go work for Disney full time and he, according to sources, no longer has an office at Paramount of any kind and the folks running the show at Star Trek as a brand are treating all of his #StarTrekLegacy talk as just "Yeah, sure, okay Terry, have fun remaking the Parent Trap an 8th time or whatever for Disney  " and a post-Picard show, at least in the hands of Matalas, is not currently in active development.
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Aug 7, 2023 20:37
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disaster pastor posted:Yup, it's come up before in the thread, though it wasn't that late in production. In the first draft that went out, the A-plot was Picard on Earth working to preserve the timeline, with the added complication of Cochrane being hurt in the Borg attack and Picard having to potentially take his place if he dies. The B-plot was Riker cleaning up the Borg on the Enterprise. Two things happened: Stewart had his usual "nope, give me the action plot, historians don't get laid" response, and the writers realized "hey, Picard is the one with serious history with the Borg, the movie's real dumb if Picard doesn't fight the Borg." So the plots got switched. Thanks for confirming my hazy memory! Patstew really is the main villain of Jean-Luc Picard, although this time he actually did manage to make his usual complaint to make sense. I still want to say "probably not intentionally", though.
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Aug 7, 2023 21:12
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I get it's a whiplash in terms of how the character had been dealing with his Borg trauma, but the fact that we're seeing the most patient, clear-headed, and thoughtful officer in Starfleet lose his mind in a quest for revenge is a really good angle. Him dressing down Worf in that moment is both shocking but follows with his decline throughout the film. I do like that his rock bottom is calling Worf a coward instead of like mowing down a bunch of SF security guys who are about to get assimilated. The scene between him and Alfre Woodard in the conference room is probably my most re-watched trek clip.
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Aug 7, 2023 21:15
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zoux posted:I get it's a whiplash in terms of how the character had been dealing with his Borg trauma, but the fact that we're seeing the most patient, clear-headed, and thoughtful officer in Starfleet lose his mind in a quest for revenge is a really good angle. Him dressing down Worf in that moment is both shocking but follows with his decline throughout the film. I do like that his rock bottom is calling Worf a coward instead of like mowing down a bunch of SF security guys who are about to get assimilated. First Contact plot with Cochran is also pretty good about what history leaves out about great men and what they are doing. Cochran is just a dude, history will make up its own narrative one way or another. Which is an interesting thing for 1998 or whenever it came out. It did a Great Man plot better than most movies today. Also, as someone who liked Picard Season 3 and didn't mind the assimilated youths thing, I did appreciate that Picard's solution was to sit with his son and just let him know he loved him and he was sorry and he will sit with him. Yah the Ent-D trench run is stupid but its actually, again, a very Trek/Federation thing to do. Try to have love or diplomacy win unless you absolutely have no choice.
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Aug 7, 2023 21:53
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bull3964 posted:I mean, that's par for the course when it comes to writers and of course he's not going to be executive producing a show that's ended. Picard show should not exist and the fact that it was made is a clear indicator that society is crumbling
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Aug 7, 2023 22:22
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The Vengeance Factor. It's very much an episode that was made. This time, Riker gets a romance and it's even thinner than Troi's. And then he loving vaporizes her because she's doing murders, ho hum. Really wasn't all that invested in the "Angry Coach Lady From Porkys vs. Heavy Metal School Bullies" diplomacy main plot either. Where Picard's normally a strong diplomat, here he just sits between them and looks a bit awkward for a while until Riker crashes in and gets handy with the lady vaporizing. Bright spot, Wesley treating the one dude's attempts at cool dude bullying with utter disdain. Otherwise, nothing to quicken the pulse. The Defector though, is some fine stuff indeed. Begins with a neat excuse for Patrick Stewart to stick some appliances on his face, put on an accent and quote Shakespeare. From there, it develops into cold war paranoia transposed into the Federation/Romulan conflict. It's a complex one where Picard must decide if he should or shouldn't act upon the information supplied by the Romulan defector of the title. The defector, well played by James Sloyan is initially a smug git with ludicrous shoulder pads (aren't they all?). I'm beginning to think the silliest bit of the Romulan garb isn't the shoulder pad sleeve things, but the goofy trousers/boots combo. Anyway, that Tomalak rear end in a top hat shows up again, what a fantastic piece of poo poo he is. The ending is a prime bit of tragedy too, really moving. Cannot ask for more.
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Aug 7, 2023 23:46
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Every alien empire the Federation faces off with is wearing something huge and/or armored on top paired with black sweatpants.
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Aug 8, 2023 00:58
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Feldegast42 posted:*Meekly pokes head into thread* Fun to watch, ahead of schedule, under budget. Two-Takes Frakes doesn't miss.  "These are the directions my eyes point, Patrick."
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Aug 8, 2023 01:04
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While the action cues from insurrection are better, I think first Contact was Jerry Goldsmith's last really good Star Trek score
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Aug 8, 2023 01:12
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Tighclops posted:While the action cues from insurrection are better, I think first Contact was Jerry Goldsmith's last really good Star Trek score Nemesis's soundtrack has some real standout moments, usually centered around Shinzon's leitmotif and of course any time the Star Trek main theme shows up, but that's about it.
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Aug 8, 2023 01:22
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Nemesis sits alongside Elliot Goldenthal's Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within score in terms of ones where I enjoy it and listen to it fairly regularly, but have NO desire to watch the film it's attached to ever again.
MuddyFunster fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Aug 8, 2023 |
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Aug 8, 2023 02:05
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Tighclops posted:While the action cues from insurrection are better, I think first Contact was Jerry Goldsmith's last really good Star Trek score The main theme reprisal during the credits is truly great stuff. Star Trek: Picard choosing it for season 3 credits was great.
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Aug 8, 2023 02:30
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disaster pastor posted:Yup, it's come up before in the thread, though it wasn't that late in production. It was late enough that the Mad parody of the film still had Picard on the surface.
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Aug 8, 2023 04:24
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MuddyFunster posted:Nemesis sits alongside Elliot Goldenthal's Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within score in terms of ones where I enjoy it and listen to it fairly regularly, but have NO desire to watch the film it's attached to ever again. TSW soundtrack is utterly fantastic.
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Aug 8, 2023 04:38
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The Spirits Within is one of those movies I haven't watched since I was a teenager and while I didn't come away hating it back then, I sometimes wonder what my reaction to it would be if I watched it today. I think my main takeaway was "wow, this all looks really cool, though I don't think Alec Baldwin wants to be in this movie, but Ming-Na Wen, Donald Sutherland and James Woods are sure rocking their parts" and that was about it.
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Aug 8, 2023 04:46
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What is everyone's favorite Kira hair style? this is mine: 
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Aug 8, 2023 15:06
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Lowen SoDium posted:What is everyone's favorite Kira hair style? That's def the signature Kira look
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Aug 8, 2023 15:16
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 Rewatching DS9 as an adult and seeing Nana Visitor, Chase Masterson and Nicole de Boer and being like "ah that's why I like short hair on women"
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Aug 8, 2023 16:30
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Lowen SoDium posted:What is everyone's favorite Kira hair style? First season, with the uniform that had the shoulderpads and the belt
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Aug 8, 2023 22:42
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Lowen SoDium posted:What is everyone's favorite Kira hair style? Going with the pixie-cut she rocked for a bit when she was working on Bajor. 
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Aug 8, 2023 23:31
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I'm getting impatient. I see Yesterday's Enterprise there, that one legendary episode that everybody bangs on about. It's still a few episodes away, gently caress. What have we got tonight? A couple of fairly strong ones! The Hunted. Nice to see James Cromwell there, I had no clue he was in an episode! It is one of those ones that's like "Oh no, a nasty prisoner has escaped from our otherwise super duper peaceful brainbox society that is in no way evil somehow, no sir." And you know immediately it's not that simple, right? No, it's sort of an allegorical one, a touch of First Blood in there, a story about soldiers being trained (or in this case programmed) to kill and being subsequently shunned after they're no longer needed. The prisoner in question, immediately sympathetic once he's done beating the poo poo out of O'Brien and a bunch more yellowshirts. You see, "Outrageous" Okona, this is how you set up a cool character! You show him actually doing poo poo! Liked it a lot, especially Picard deciding to peace out at the end and leave the problem in the lap of Cromwell and his stuffy bureaucrats. Hell, even Troi was useful. The High Ground is a grim one. Feels like it's poking at the utopian ideals of Trek in presenting a situation that has no simple happy ending like we saw in the last episode. Beverly Crusher finds herself at the mercy of a terrorist group fighting an authoritarian government. The show does a very good job of showing how one side feeds the other in an even handed way, humanising both sides of the conflict without shying away from their actions. Both sides are weary and beaten down by it all, but they're both locked into a horrific spiral of terrorism vs. the police "disappearing" people. Come the end credits, the best we get is the barest, tiniest shred of optimism, but even then... God, what a lot to take in, not sure how I feel about that one. It's good! But it's A LOT I'd be interested to hear your opinions on that one, because boy howdy. MuddyFunster fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 01:24
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Atlas Hugged posted:I get what you are saying about planned arcs, but shooting scripts and production issues are very different beasts. You also have the departure of Susan Ivanova (Claudia Christian) from the station which required rewriting elements of the season 5 arc and introducing a new character. I know there's no official reason for why Christian left One of the key things to understand about the cast of B5 is that many of them were broken-down last chancers for one reason or another who J. Michael Straczynski was trying to give opportunities to. For instance, the guy who played Sinclair had to leave because his schizophrenia was becoming too bad to function. The guy who played Doctor Franklin is deaf and a lot of directors didn't want to work with a completely deaf actor. And Claudia Christian has been very public about her struggle with alcoholism and her recovery. AFAIK it was more due to that than anything else.
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Aug 9, 2023 02:07
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MuddyFunster posted:I'd be interested to hear your opinions on that one, because boy howdy. It predicted the Irish Reunification of next year, so it's good
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Aug 9, 2023 02:42
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Well, I have finally completed my full watch of DS9. I would have finished it a few weeks ago, but I had to travel to America where I didn't have a Peacock subscription (it's still on Netflix in Thailand). Overall, it's the best Trek series I've watched from premier to finale. However, the only other show that meets that qualification is Picard. I've seen most of the highlights of TOS and TNG; a few episodes of Voyager; nothing of TAS, Enterprise, Discovery, or Prodigy; and all that's been made of Lower Decks and SNW, so that means that the bulk of the Trek I've seen is now DS9. I don't think anyone needs to hear that I thought it was pretty good since I think that's the universal opinion on it already, but I'll reiterate it just in case there are lurkers who still haven't given it a shot. The show is definitely worth watching if you like Trek related media and is by quantity the best Trek that's been made. There are only a couple of episodes I remember watching and thinking, "This is loving stupid," at the time, and those all have slipped into the recesses of my memory at this point since the bad ones aren't really memorable. Not every episode is an A+ slam dunk, but a lot of them are! Plus, there are just so many above average to good episodes that you'll usually be entertained. One thing that had me laughing out loud though was the montage at the end. They showed clips basically from everyone's relationships and escapades across the show, but for Worf, they only showed clips from his season 7, which is him and Ezria being stranded and him fighting Gowron. Jadzia wasn't featured in any of the montage clips. Completely erased from the show.
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Aug 9, 2023 03:58
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Atlas Hugged posted:One thing that had me laughing out loud though was the montage at the end. They showed clips basically from everyone's relationships and escapades across the show, but for Worf, they only showed clips from his season 7, which is him and Ezria being stranded and him fighting Gowron. Jadzia wasn't featured in any of the montage clips. Completely erased from the show. They even had a clip from Our Man Bashir, with Worf smoking a cigar... Worf, that wasn't you, that was just a hologram with your appearance! How are you remembering that and not your wife?!
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Aug 9, 2023 05:11
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Angry Salami posted:They even had a clip from Our Man Bashir, with Worf smoking a cigar... Worf, that wasn't you, that was just a hologram with your appearance! How are you remembering that and not your wife?! Oh I thought that was from the heist episode, so I guess it's the one thing they pulled from prior to Season 7 and yeah it's not really even him lmao.
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Aug 9, 2023 05:22
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Angry Salami posted:They even had a clip from Our Man Bashir, with Worf smoking a cigar... Worf, that wasn't you, that was just a hologram with your appearance! How are you remembering that and not your wife?! Technically it was Worf’s consciousness inside the holodeck computer memory so close enough.
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Aug 9, 2023 06:23
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Nah, just his body, his body was stored into the holodeck because that's designed to store transporter-like patterns, while his brain was stored in the station computer main memory because it needed to be kept in higher fidelity than the holodeck would keep it.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 06:40
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Yeah it was a holodeck character using his body, not the other way around.
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Aug 9, 2023 10:42
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Was anyone done dirtier than Terry Farrell
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Aug 9, 2023 15:57
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zoux posted:Was anyone done dirtier than Terry Farrell Denise Crosby?
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Aug 9, 2023 16:01
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zoux posted:Was anyone done dirtier than Terry Farrell Wah Chang?
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Aug 9, 2023 16:05
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Arivia posted:Denise Crosby? She wanted to leave because she didn't think they were doing interesting stuff with her character. Powered Descent posted:Wah Chang? Wasn't that a union dispute, like Chang ran a non-union shop or something?
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Aug 9, 2023 16:23
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zoux posted:Wasn't that a union dispute, like Chang ran a non-union shop or something? The prop maker’s union wouldn’t let him in for Reasons. (probably racism reasons)
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Aug 9, 2023 16:28
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zoux posted:Was anyone done dirtier than Terry Farrell Grace Lee Whitney?
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Aug 9, 2023 16:29
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