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Ither posted:Why do lawyers do TV interviews? Are they trying to influence the future jury or something? They get paid. 5, sometimes 6 figures.
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Aug 9, 2023 03:24
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I am not a lawyer, but I don't think that's how it works.  https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1689095301267636224?t=HGHmHVqbF3l9GC2NK32-Iw&s=19
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Aug 9, 2023 03:52
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Is there precedent for gag orders on public posts? Why yes, there is: This is a good reference. I'll note that the reasons for the appeal not being granted were procedural. The appeals court didn't consider it on the merits. If Trump hits the point where he is posting photos of Jack Smith or Judge Chutkan with rifle crosshairs, I could see him getting hit with a gag order. We'd have to see what happens in the appeal after that assuming Trump's attorneys don't also make procedural mistakes. My argument is not that it's impossible to meet that bar, but that Trump hasn't met it yet. It's also potentially relevant that Stone's trial was literally for, among other things, witness intimidation. But, yes, thank you for finding that.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:01
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It's usually helpful to let the other side post all they want on social media since they generate a ton of hearsay exceptions that can be used to impeach them at trial. Among the hearsay exceptions that can apply to social media posts are: Present Sense Impression Excited Utterance Then-Existing Mental, Emotional, or Physical Condition Recorded Recollection and most importantly for Trump: Statement Against Interest So unless they have a pressing need to prevent him from actively harming someone, they will probably want him to keep being the poster-in-chief.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:10
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Ken Cheesbro wrote a memo about fake electors back in November. Memo just turned up in indictment https://archive.ph/jg4L4#selection-498.0-540.1 quote:A lawyer allied with President Donald J. Trump first laid out a plot to use false slates of electors to subvert the 2020 election in a previously unknown internal campaign memo that prosecutors are portraying as a crucial link in how the Trump team’s efforts evolved into a criminal conspiracy.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:39
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Ither posted:Why do lawyers do TV interviews? Are they trying to influence the future jury or something? Their brainwormed client insists that they "Get out there" and flood the zone with defense. There has been a bunch of reporting on Trump that he has a strong psychological need for surrogates to always be out there on TV (what he watches all day) supporting and affirming him.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:50
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Charlz Guybon posted:I am not a lawyer, but I don't think that's how it works. Does that make no sense to everyone else or was that brownie waaaay stronger than I thought it was.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:57
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Xiahou Dun posted:Does that make no sense to everyone else or was that brownie waaaay stronger than I thought it was. Oh thank God it wasn't just me suffering a stroke partway through that. I... have absolutely no idea what he's trying to say, I'm pretty he just went full on delirious writing that.
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Aug 9, 2023 05:05
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It's a helluva combo. The reasoning appears to go as follows, with potential intentions in [brackets]. a) Because he is indicted, he has unlimited subpoena power. [He's setting up a pretext to reveal materials from shared discovery; this pretext making little sense means that his audience can't really be corrected from believing this]. b) The January 6 committee destroyed all their records. This "has just been reported", meaning he heard about it just now, it has happened after (a) and therefore must have been in response to (a). [forcing a causal relationship, basically pure bread and butter conspiracy thinking. This is the most revealing part of the thought process and also the hardest to parse]. c) It's directly implied that the committee is destroying some sort of exonerating evidence. d) Therefore, the indictment must be withdrawn. [Reiterating the root demand] e) (b) is evidence of a general conspiracy against him by an outgroup and the illegitimacy of the proceeding, which was also true of the 2020 election. [Note this reiterates a "true belief" about the election, which might be a part of the point of the statement.] f) Everything is worse and this is evidence of everything being worse. [Basic ingroup threat signifier; Trump is the Nation. Also pretty much a thought-terminating cliche]. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 06:05
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Nitrousoxide posted:It's usually helpful to let the other side post all they want on social media since they generate a ton of hearsay exceptions that can be used to impeach them at trial. You're mostly right! Hearsay rules are great and, as a lawyer, it's fun to nerd out about hearsay. Don't need a hearsay exception for a defendant's statements. They're defined as not hearsay. Also hearsay needs to assert something (Timmy testifying "my grandma said the car was blue") and it's not hearsay if it isn't an assertion (Timmy testifying "my grandma asked if we saw the car crash"). Other things that aren't hearsay: statements of a defendant's agents/employees (pool guy texting other idiots "boss told me to empty the pool"), and statements of the defendant's co conspirators (Giuliani telling Fox News "Trump told us to find fake electors so we did"). BigHead fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 06:14
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Also the Jan 6 committee, whose investigation was likely instrumental in getting DOJ off their asses to bring these indictments, has not “illegal destroyed their Records and Documents”
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Aug 9, 2023 06:32
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Yiggy posted:Their brainwormed client insists that they "Get out there" and flood the zone with defense. There has been a bunch of reporting on Trump that he has a strong psychological need for surrogates to always be out there on TV (what he watches all day) supporting and affirming him. Yeah, it's in large part this: Trump has always had an intense need for his people to be out there on the news making noise about how great Trump is. It's possibly the single strongest prism through which he comprehends the loyalty, or not, of those around him, and I remember multiple occasions of ructions in the Trump White House revolving around his staff trying to argue that going on Fox to make whatever argument would be counterproductive to actually getting something done, but he would absolutely insist that they go out and make the arguments he demanded. Secondarily, his legal strategy is basically to win in 2024, and that means making drat sure his base is fired up with the belief that he's being persecuted. Only intensified by the nature of the EC system, because every time a Trump voter thinks the case against him is convincing and decides to stay home, that is one more problem he has to overcome if they're in a swing state.
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Aug 9, 2023 09:39
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innertubes posted:Chairman Bennie Thompson wrote "Consistent with guidance from the Office of the Clerk and other authorities, the Select Committee did not archive temporary committee records that were not elevated by the Committee's actions, such as use in hearings or official publications, or those that did not further its investigative activities."
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Aug 9, 2023 12:11
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Boo. We want to see it. https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1689270989337636864 Also, Jack Smith is still investigating Trump's PAC for fraud https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/08/jack-smith-donald-trump-pac-00110279
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Aug 9, 2023 15:10
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https://twitter.com/AWeissmann_/status/1689015437952950272
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Aug 9, 2023 16:11
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To be honest I've kindof mentally written off the Cannon trial now that the DC one is the new hotness.
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Aug 9, 2023 16:29
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Deteriorata posted:Ken Cheesbro wrote a memo about fake electors back in November. Memo just turned up in indictment
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Aug 9, 2023 16:35
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Wow I'm going to need to make wildly different bingo cards for the two DOJ cases. "Cannon goof", "Cannon echos federalist society", "Cannon uses xit as evidence against the prosecution"... Send ideas via PM and I'll see what I can do. (Reminded me of Trump Treason Jury bingo from a while back.)
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Aug 9, 2023 18:26
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I’m on mobile and can’t copy-paste around the paywall, but it seems the DoJ secretly got a warrant for Trump’s now defunct Twitter account? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/us/politics/trump-twitter-account-search-warrant.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare Not sure what that even means, exactly, but it sure is curious.
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Aug 9, 2023 18:43
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m on mobile and can’t copy-paste around the paywall, but it seems the DoJ secretly got a warrant for Trump’s now defunct Twitter account? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/us/politics/trump-twitter-account-search-warrant.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare I assume it would give access to direct messages, assuming Trump used that feature.
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Aug 9, 2023 19:05
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Xiahou Dun posted:I’m on mobile and can’t copy-paste around the paywall, but it seems the DoJ secretly got a warrant for Trump’s now defunct Twitter account? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/us/politics/trump-twitter-account-search-warrant.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare It is going to be real rich if Elon manages to get roped into some form of obstruction.
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Aug 9, 2023 19:14
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The Flying Milton posted:It is going to be real rich if Elon manages to get roped into some form of obstruction. quote:Twitter’s initial resistance to complying with the warrant resulted in a federal judge holding the company in contempt and levying a $350,000 fine.
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Aug 9, 2023 19:27
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Ynglaur posted:I assume it would give access to direct messages, assuming Trump used that feature. Yeah that seems out of character? But also what do I know so…? Does Twitter have a “save to drafts” function I never cared to learn about or something?
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Aug 9, 2023 19:30
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It does, and they would have that too. But I am of the understanding that Trump borrowed other people's phones to make his tweets so he's less likely to use the DM feature. Maybe we'll finally learn the story behind covfefe
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Aug 9, 2023 19:32
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mobby_6kl posted:Oh, Twitter's already been fined $350k for not complying lol twitter got fined $350k for complying late three days late if they'd been a month late, per the order, they'd owe the global GDP in fines, which they didn't do the math on in time to object to
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Aug 9, 2023 19:50
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Even if Trump didn't use DMs, it doesn't mean The Best Geniuses, Just the Best Geniuses, didn't try to send their crime reports to him that way.
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Aug 9, 2023 19:50
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Xiahou Dun posted:Yeah that seems out of character? But also what do I know so…? This actually came up in the J6 hearings: https://time.com/6196451/jan-6-hearing-trump-draft-tweet/ quote:“I will be making a Big Speech at 10 a.m. on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House),” read the draft tweet, which was preserved by the National Archives. “Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the steal!” They brought it up when they were talking about whether the J6 events were spontaneous riots or planned insurrection. If he was saving poo poo like that, I wouldn't be surprised if there are other interesting drafts.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:05
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mobby_6kl posted:Oh, Twitter's already been fined $350k for not complying lol Elon laughs at this in comparison to the billions he's already lit on fire.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:15
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Vino posted:It does, and they would have that too. But I am of the understanding that Trump borrowed other people's phones to make his tweets so he's less likely to use the DM feature. Wait he logged onto his own account from other people's phones? Why? So he could claim he didn't write something? Edit: Pablo Bluth posted:Even if Trump didn't use DMs, it doesn't mean The Best Geniuses, Just the Best Geniuses, didn't try to send their crime reports to him that way. lol if someone texted Trump on Jan 6, "Excellent job, sir! Just the best! You really got them after Pence's blood now, just like you said to me last night that you would! I wish I had your way with people, sir! You said, "I can make them do anything, and I want them to murder Congress,", and wow, off they go to do just that. I feel honored to have heard it from you first, sir. You're the best." Ynglaur fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 20:16
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Ynglaur posted:Wait he logged onto his own account from other people's phones? Why? So he could claim he didn't write something? He refused to use a secure cell phone for Twitter, so they eventually made him carry around his old phone and a secure phone that couldn't have Twitter installed on it. He got tired of carrying around two phones and would just ask random people to give him their phone so he could log in to Twitter. He eventually ended up with a special government iPhone that was blocked from installing any new apps, receiving any texts, or making phone calls and was only for Twitter because he refused to use the secure phone or stop using the unsecure phones of other people to log in to Twitter. quote:The president uses at least two iPhones, according to one of the officials. The phones — one capable only of making calls, the other equipped only with the Twitter app and preloaded with a handful of news sites — are issued by White House Information Technology and the White House Communications Agency, an office staffed by military personnel that oversees White House telecommunications. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/trump-phone-security-risk-hackers-601903
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Aug 9, 2023 20:23
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Nervous posted:Elon laughs at this in comparison to the billions he's already lit on fire. I don't think Elon would have the knowledge or talent remaining to be able to skillfully obstruct that request. Best case scenario would be him flooding twitters servers with their indoor pool.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:23
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evilweasel posted:twitter got fined $350k for complying late Yeah, $50k fine, doubling each day, payable on each day. So $50k + $100k + $200k. Wowsers.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:27
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smackfu posted:Yeah, $50k fine, doubling each day, payable on each day. So $50k + $100k + $200k. Wowsers. Are exponential increases usual there? Sure 350k is nothing for a company, but that would be excessive quite quickly. I wish Elon had hold out for a week or two.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:56
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cant cook creole bream posted:Are exponential increases usual there? I think at one point Alex Jones got hit with one.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:57
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^^^ cant cook creole bream posted:Are exponential increases usual there? I remember Alex Jones having a similar fine if I'm not mistaken. No idea how often it's given.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:12
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It's rare but used when courts are annoyed with someone who has a lot of money.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:33
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cant cook creole bream posted:Are exponential increases usual there? exponential increases are highly unusual, and the appeals court commented that they're highly unusual, before saying they were fine here because (a) twitter was worth $44b (lol, and also a veiled reference to musk being an obstinate wierdo idiot whose arm needs to be vigorously twisted to follow the law); and (b) twitter didn't think to object to it usually, it is a flat per-day fine, and if the target starts paying it instead of complying it's manually increased until the court gets annoyed and puts the target in jail
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Aug 9, 2023 21:44
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Lol he really wants all those documents back at Mar-A-Lago for reasons https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1689358705240776704?t=QrZXPVSWNE9unb714cEbaQ&s=19
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Aug 9, 2023 21:49
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cr0y posted:Lol he really wants all those documents back at Mar-A-Lago for reasons Maybe he's worried about the Saudis chopping someone up. Say, someone who received several billion dollars recently, but who may not have the goods promised by dear ol' dad-in-law.
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Aug 9, 2023 22:02
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cr0y posted:Lol he really wants all those documents back at Mar-A-Lago for reasons That's what the bathroom is for right?
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Aug 9, 2023 22:05
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