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mutata posted:I just moved to New England, so I am looking to acquire my standard issue Subaru Outback. I'm looking at how practical buying new might be, but I've never bought a new car, so I'm also looking for recent model year used cars (2020 or newer, or thereabouts). Any specific issues I should look out for or model years/trim packages I should avoid? Sample size of 1 and ymmv disclaimers, but I just got burned on a 2013 Outback with a hair under 100k miles that I bought last year. The CVT starting making a noise about six months after I bought the thing, and finally bit the dust a few weeks ago at just a hair over 106,000 miles. Man, turns out I wasn't prepared for the reality that nobody services CVTs. Called around to multiple transmission shops over several states, and either nobody touches CVTs in general, or nobody services Subaru transmissions because of the price of their diagnostics software. Even the dealers won't actually fix anything with them--they just drop the old one, pop in a remanufactured CVT, and ship the core back to Subaru to be rebuilt. So, that's costing about a third of the price of a brand new Outback to have that done. hosed if I didn't get it fixed, hosed by getting it fixed. Worst part is they won't even sell me an extended warranty on the reman transmission, so I can't say I feel all that great. Sucks because I really liked the car and what it could do, but I don't think I'll ever buy another subaru after this experience.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:09
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That's the problem. Don't buy any car with a CVT ever. They are junk and they are disposable.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:14
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The current stronger Subaru CVT is probably fine, early Ascents should all have grenaded by now otherwise.
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Aug 10, 2023 02:48
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I could probably stand next to the engine in the engine bay of my old truck, now I'm trying to figure out how to find space for the tiniest things.
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Aug 10, 2023 03:30
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hobbesmaster posted:The current stronger Subaru CVT is probably fine, early Ascents should all have grenaded by now otherwise. It's def not fine. The Hi torque CVT grenades on the WRX and Levorg / Forester, it will grenade if it hasnt stared to on the Ascents as well. When the CVT in my Levorg death rattles, I'm goign to manual swap
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Aug 10, 2023 04:47
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I shoulda known coming to a manufacturer megathread would just get me a bunch of recommendations to stay away forever, lol. I'll just try to get one from the past 2 years or buy new, I guess.
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Aug 10, 2023 05:23
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mutata posted:I shoulda known coming to a manufacturer megathread would just get me a bunch of recommendations to stay away forever, lol. I'll just try to get one from the past 2 years or buy new, I guess. I mean you asked for things to avoid and the consensus (from a sample of half a dozen) is "Don't get a CVT." No one else said avoid anything else, and you already said 2020 or newer. You got your answer. Other than the CVT drivetrains, they're pretty standard, relatively reliable cars. The WRX looks dorky, but other than that, find what fits your need most and get it. Unless it has a CVT.
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Aug 10, 2023 06:31
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And also that's the same advice you're likely to receive in ANY manufacturer or general thread when talking about models that aren't a Prius that come with CVTs (because Prius CVTs aren't the same thing at all as the garbage I'm cautioning against).
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Aug 10, 2023 13:13
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I get it, I was just joking. I was also under the assumption that all Outbacks (still) came with CVT, but I'll have to look into it again. Thanks!
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Aug 10, 2023 14:10
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All outbacks do come with a CVT.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:26
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Ah, lol. Gotcha. Well, uh, weird thread y'all got here. Thanks anyway!
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Aug 10, 2023 14:28
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mutata posted:Ah, lol. Gotcha. Well, uh, weird thread y'all got here. Thanks anyway! My son is a Subaru tech. The CVTs have been improving recently, but they are not nearly as reliable as the older 4 speed automatics. If you are going to buy a Subaru with more than 100k, you need to be prepared to replace the CVT. CVT is the Subaru Achilles heal. (That and problems with Fuji-bond sealing of the motors, but that's another story)
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Aug 10, 2023 14:53
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I sold my Outback at 89k miles because of impending CVT explosion fear. Also because my catalytic converter fell off? Subaru of America covered the catalytic converter in full and I got another Outback to drive while it was in the shop for a month though so at least corporate isn't awful to deal with. Anecdotally.
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Aug 10, 2023 15:16
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I've seen 3 Subaru CVTs die from just people I know. Subaru lost a class action lawsuit in the US because of them. They are truly horrible unreliable pieces of poo poo. Don't buy one. Buy a manual Subaru or one with a regular automatic transmission.
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Aug 10, 2023 15:20
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Yea that limits you to a brz/wrx which outback shoppers won't look at, or a manual crosstrek.
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Aug 10, 2023 15:43
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is subaru making another baja or was that a fever dream I hadArson Daily posted:Dang. Well I'd need to get over the Sierra's from northern Nevada to California so maybe that isn't a great idea. Probably no more than 1200 pounds bike+trailer but there'd be a bunch of gear in the back too. Might just go for the uhaul transit instead. I came down the other way on the 207 on my bike into minden, going up will be one hill to climb into tahoe, then another steepish hill to get out of tahoe and then gradual downhill the rest of the way into cali A MIRACLE fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 16:29
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If you’re in the outback segment, and your requirements are based on snow capability and utility, my gf has been driving a 2022 rav4 prime and I can’t recommend it more strongly. 45k miles on it and it’s been excellent. The Prius CVT design, very good mpg, and the partial electric awd has fantastic torque vectoring ability in snow.
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Aug 10, 2023 16:45
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I do appreciate the responses, thank you. So basically you have to just assume a full transmission swap at around 100k miles no matter what you do or just don't buy a Subaru.Sadi posted:If you’re in the outback segment, and your requirements are based on snow capability and utility, my gf has been driving a 2022 rav4 prime and I can’t recommend it more strongly. 45k miles on it and it’s been excellent. The Prius CVT design, very good mpg, and the partial electric awd has fantastic torque vectoring ability in snow. It's a good recommendation! And something I may look at, but I don't want an SUV or a crossover if I can at all help it (for mostly arbitrary silly reasons). Prius sounds hip, to be honest, but I'd prefer a wagon. Go figure. mutata fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 16:48
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It's worth it to note that the Rav 4 Prime has upwards of a 2 year waitlist at this point.
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Aug 10, 2023 17:01
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What's sad is that the consensus I've seen elsewhere is that Subaru is on the more reliable end for CVTs. On paper, it's a good idea. Lighter, less mechanically complex, you're always in the power band so it gets better fuel efficiency (which helps manufacturers meet new standards). I get why manufacturers have went all in, but man, it sucks for customers like me who are saddled with an obscene repair bill on a vehicle that had only just cleared the 100k extended warranty period, and had been running great up till the cvt imploded. Sample size of one and all, but I definitely went from thinking the concerns were blown out of proportion, to firmly being in the camp of "I'll never buy another vehicle with a cvt ever again"
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Aug 10, 2023 17:10
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PneumonicBook posted:Yea that limits you to a brz/wrx which outback shoppers won't look at, or a manual crosstrek. I'm pretty sure they dropped the manual for the Impreza recently. That said, the plug-in hybrid Edward IV fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 17:33
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Fwiw, my wife's 2013 Crosstrek seems to still be on the original CVT, and has been chugging along just fine? We don't tow with it (though it did have an OE hitch that I just removed) but I have no idea what the first owner did, other than put 150k miles on it driving between Florida and Minnesota for 5 years. I do need to do a fluid change on it though, it's coming up on 205k miles soon.
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Aug 10, 2023 18:05
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The internet tells me that if I want a wagon around the same price range as the Outback I'm lookin' at a MINI Clubman, heh.
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Aug 10, 2023 18:28
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The newer CVTs are supposed to be better. But also I see some people changing their fluid every 30k.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:21
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FogHelmut posted:The newer CVTs are supposed to be better. But also I see some people changing their fluid every 30k. I changed mine at 60, if for some reason I bought another it would be every 30 though yea. The problem with changing cvt transmission fluid is if you also want to change the filter you have to get the dealership to do it unless you have a way of cracking open the cvt so thats $600 every time. mutata posted:The internet tells me that if I want a wagon around the same price range as the Outback I'm lookin' at a MINI Clubman, heh. Wagons are cool but if this is a ten year car I would just grab something else. Outback are cool and useful but there are some really bad aspects of them too, same as most cars I guess. Like the 2.5 in an outback is incredibly underpowered, especially if you've got the car loaded down, and the infotainment is dogshit. But again, it's the only wagon at its price point so
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Aug 10, 2023 21:50
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PneumonicBook posted:I changed mine at 60, if for some reason I bought another it would be every 30 though yea. The problem with changing cvt transmission fluid is if you also want to change the filter you have to get the dealership to do it unless you have a way of cracking open the cvt so thats $600 every time. Yeah, the question is what else? I want solid winter driving, decent gas mileage, cargo capacity, people carrying capacity, not an SUV, not a crossover, decent clearance and towing capabilities are bonuses, and I want it for at or under $40k. I haven't seen much, unfortunately.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:54
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mutata posted:Yeah, the question is what else? I want solid winter driving, decent gas mileage, cargo capacity, people carrying capacity, not an SUV, not a crossover, decent clearance and towing capabilities are bonuses, and I want it for at or under $40k. I haven't seen much, unfortunately. To be faaaaaaair if you got a Outback new or very low kms, the CVT is more or less okay for regular driving and it's not a total bomb waiting to go off until it gets plenty of kms on it. I'd just consider trading it in in a few years time because you are right, there really is gently caress all about that is in reality not a SUV but a lifted station wagon and otherwise a pretty good vehicle. Crosstreks and Outbacks sell as well as they are not rear hatch compromised appliances and just do what people want reliably that we all wish wasnt lumped with the worst transmission. Which also to be fair does make the car very relaxing to cruise, just more if you want to be a bit more spirited in your driving may not be great Edit : Oh and jsut a thought, the hybrid XV/Crosstrek isnt bad. CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 22:26
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Yeah, that seems like a fair assessment based on everything I've learned so far, heh. I guess I'd like to not buy new if I'm just gonna have to sell it in 8 years or whatever, but used cars are all over the place too these days.
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Aug 10, 2023 22:55
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:To be faaaaaaair To be faaaaaiir~
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Aug 11, 2023 01:28
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Wasabi the J posted:To be faaaaaiir~ Figure it out.
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Aug 11, 2023 01:30
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I feel like Subaru should have just leaned on their Toyota partnership and worked out a deal to get Aisin A-series automatic transmissions into Subarus after the first few years of grenading CVTs. The one in the BRZ (A960E) is possibly one of the best automatic transmissions I've ever driven.
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Aug 12, 2023 02:21
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Subaru bought those plans from JATCO and they’re going to modify it for the next decade unless someone makes them stop. See also: FA/FB H-4
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Aug 12, 2023 02:52
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hobbesmaster posted:Subaru bought those plans from JATCO and they’re going to modify it for the next decade unless someone makes them stop. Subaru have been doing CVT for cars at over 35 years and the Lintronic isn't a JATCO based design - nor does it use a belt like a JATCO. Why not use an Aisin auto? AWD makes the internals a lot different so you cant do off the shelf like the RWD cars can. Subaru should have modernised the 5EAT and added a gear or two IMO but I'm just a dickhead that owns too many Subarus, what would I know?
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Aug 12, 2023 05:34
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I think the cross trek still comes with a manual. Also the impeza hatch back as well.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:54
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mustard_tiger posted:I think the cross trek still comes with a manual. Also the impeza hatch back as well. Neither have it starting with the 2024 models.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:10
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We actually went in looking for a manual crosstrek but once we found that they no longer existed and that the '24s radio and HVAC controls were a giant touchscreen we bounced off that HARD. At least the foresters still have knobs for some of the controls. Hate the teslafication of auto interiors so much.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:34
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On the outback you still have buttons for changing the temperature, front/rear defrost and volume/power. Other than the lack of a play/pause button it seems like a good setup. Does the screen in the WRX/Crosstrek/Impreza miss some of those buttons?
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Aug 14, 2023 20:29
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hobbesmaster posted:On the outback you still have buttons for changing the temperature, front/rear defrost and volume/power. Other than the lack of a play/pause button it seems like a good setup. The buttons are fine and the major touchscreen controls are always up front and in the same spot. I don't entirely hate it.  However, the angle it's mounted at reflects the sun into your eyes at all times.
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Aug 14, 2023 21:16
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FogHelmut posted:However, the angle it's mounted at reflects the sun into your eyes at all times. Unfortunate. It is more upright on the outback so that isn’t as much of an issue. Oops.
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Aug 14, 2023 21:21
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hobbesmaster posted:Unfortunate. It is more upright on the outback so that isn’t as much of an issue. Oops. This is the Outback, which I have.
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Aug 14, 2023 22:59
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