Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

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cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

fyi i would not remotely characterize iran international as an iranian source. farsi-language yeah, but london based, opaquely foreign funded opposition media

Ah, ok I just assumed. I've found it's best to always put in stronger disclaimers than I think should be necessary with this kind of thing, in D&D.

# ? Jun 2, 2023 00:00

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# ? May 25, 2024 01:01

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

cat botherer posted:

Ah, ok I just assumed. I've found it's best to always put in stronger disclaimers than I think should be necessary with this kind of thing, in D&D.

It's a london based media organization with the primary goal of effecting regime change in Iran. I don't really take issue with that objective, but as far as sources that should absolutely be presented with a disclaimer go, it's hard to top that

# ? Jun 2, 2023 00:12

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

It's a london based media organization with the primary goal of effecting regime change in Iran. I don't really take issue with that objective, but as far as sources that should absolutely be presented with a disclaimer go, it's hard to top that

Oh yeah, definitely. I was doing the disclaimer assuming that it was pro-Iran government if anything. I've never had issues here from not pointing out pro-Western biases in my sources, so I didn't think about it.

# ? Jun 2, 2023 00:16

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Iran says it will form joint naval force with Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman

EXCLUSIVE: US says Iran’s claimed naval alliance with Saudi, Gulf nations ‘defies reason’

# ? Jun 4, 2023 12:33

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

i know the saudis have had a bit of a reproachment with iran negotiating an end to the proxy war in yemen, but it seems shocking that they would move that close to iran

# ? Jun 4, 2023 19:23

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

What with Jordan's Crown Prince marrying into the Saudi royal family, seems like they're covering all angles.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 19:35

Dante80: Mar 23, 2015

stephenthinkpad posted:

Iran says it will form joint naval force with Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman

They also said that India and Pakistan would be part of the alliance.

India AND Pakistan.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 21:52

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Dante80 posted:

They also said that India and Pakistan would be part of the alliance.

India AND Pakistan.

Aren't they both in SCO?

# ? Jun 4, 2023 22:16

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

The angle seems to be a combination of "securing shipping lanes against piracy is in all our national interests" (correct) and Iran trolling the US by suggesting the US Navy's biggest reason to hang around that general area is obsolete. It's uh unclear to me exactly how much more cooperation this is actually going to lead to.

# ? Jun 4, 2023 22:24

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

stephenthinkpad posted:

Iran says it will form joint naval force with Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman

EXCLUSIVE: US says Iran’s claimed naval alliance with Saudi, Gulf nations ‘defies reason’

quote:

June 3 (Reuters) - Iran's navy commander said his country and Saudi Arabia, as well as three other Gulf states, plan to form a naval alliance that will also include India and Pakistan, Iranian media reported on Saturday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-says-form-naval-alliance-with-gulf-states-ensure-regional-stability-2023-06-03/

"The countries of the region have today realized that only cooperation with each other brings security to the area," Iran's navy commander Shahram Irani was quoted as saying.

He did not elaborate on the shape of the alliance that he said would be formed soon.

This sounds like the equivalent of an anti-piracy force. Meaning something small and simple that even unfriendly nations can agree upon.

I don't see how this can mean any sort of serious military cooperation. Iran and Saudi do not like each other. Plus, India and Pakistan do not like each other. The main reasons these nations want alliances is to counter... other members of the alliance.

No, I will not be believing this until we have more details on what was actually agreed to.

edit: I shoulda refreshed. Beaten

# ? Jun 4, 2023 22:29

Hiekkakauppias: Mar 26, 2008; OJ's humble beginnings in acting helped prepare him for the media spotlight in Calgary

So are wagnerites and Ruaf going to kill each other in Syria, or what?

# ? Jun 24, 2023 11:48

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

Hiekkakauppias posted:

So are wagnerites and Ruaf going to kill each other in Syria, or what?

I don't think anyone on this planet knows the answer to that question right now, but it sure will be interesting to watch.

# ? Jun 24, 2023 13:01

acidx: Sep 24, 2019; right clicking is stealing

Elizabeth Tsurkov was kidnapped in Iraq a few months ago. Her family had kept it silent until now.

https://twitter.com/Rsherlock/status/1676700471325499394

# ? Jul 6, 2023 07:12

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

This thread's talked about Pakistan prior & I didn't see this being discussed in any D&D thread, which is a little wild because it's a fairly significant milestone for a US presidency:

Secret Pakistan Cable Documents U.S. Pressure to Remove Imran

Some choice cuts:

quote:

THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT encouraged the Pakistani government in a March 7, 2022, meeting to remove Imran Khan as prime minister over his neutrality on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, according to a classified Pakistani government document obtained by The Intercept.

...

The text of the Pakistani cable, produced from the meeting by the ambassador and transmitted to Pakistan, has not previously been published. The cable, known internally as a “cypher,” reveals both the carrots and the sticks that the State Department deployed in its push against Khan, promising warmer relations if Khan was removed, and isolation if he was not.
The document, labeled “Secret,” includes an account of the meeting between State Department officials, including Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of South and Central Asian Affairs Donald Lu, and Asad Majeed Khan, who at the time was Pakistan’s ambassador to the U.S.

...

In the meeting, according to the document, Lu spoke in forthright terms about Washington’s displeasure with Pakistan’s stance in the conflict. The document quotes Lu saying that “people here and in Europe are quite concerned about why Pakistan is taking such an aggressively neutral position (on Ukraine), if such a position is even possible. It does not seem such a neutral stand to us.” Lu added that he had held internal discussions with the U.S. National Security Council and that “it seems quite clear that this is the Prime Minister’s policy.”

Lu then bluntly raises the issue of a no-confidence vote: “I think if the no-confidence vote against the Prime Minister succeeds, all will be forgiven in Washington because the Russia visit is being looked at as a decision by the Prime Minister,” Lu said, according to the document. “Otherwise,” he continued, “I think it will be tough going ahead.”

Lu warned that if the situation wasn’t resolved, Pakistan would be marginalized by its Western allies. “I cannot tell how this will be seen by Europe but I suspect their reaction will be similar,” Lu said, adding that Khan could face “isolation” by Europe and the U.S. should he remain in office.

...

The discussion concluded, according to the document, with the Pakistani ambassador expressing his hope that the issue of the Russia-Ukraine war would not “impact our bilateral ties.” Lu told him that the damage was real but not fatal, and with Khan gone, the relationship could go back to normal. “I would argue that it has already created a dent in the relationship from our perspective,” Lu said, again raising the “political situation” in Pakistan. “Let us wait for a few days to see whether the political situation changes, which would mean that we would not have a big disagreement about this issue and the dent would go away very quickly. Otherwise, we will have to confront this issue head on and decide how to manage it.”

The day after the meeting, on March 8, Khan’s opponents in Parliament moved forward with a key procedural step toward the no-confidence vote.

...

The State Department has previously and on repeated occasions denied that Lu urged the Pakistani government to oust the prime minister. On April 8, 2022, after Khan alleged there was a cable proving his claim of U.S. interference, State Department spokesperson Jalina Porter was asked about its veracity. “Let me just say very bluntly there is absolutely no truth to these allegations,” Porter said.

...

Khan has not backed off, and the State Department again denied the charge throughout June and July, at least three times in press conferences and again in a speech by a deputy assistant secretary of state for Pakistan, who referred to the claims as “propaganda, misinformation, and disinformation.” On the latest occasion, Miller, the State Department spokesperson, ridiculed the question. “I feel like I need to bring just a sign that I can hold up in response to this question and say that that allegation is not true,” Miller said, laughing and drawing cackles from the press. “I don’t know how many times I can say it. … The United States does not have a position on one political candidate or party versus another in Pakistan or any other country.”

...

In recent months, the military-led government cracked down not just on dissidents but also on suspected leakers inside its own institutions, passing a law last week that authorizes warrantless searches and lengthy jail terms for whistleblowers. Shaken by the public display of support for Khan — expressed in a series of mass protests and riots this May — the military has also enshrined authoritarian powers for itself that drastically reduce civil liberties, criminalize criticism of the military, expand the institution’s already expansive role in the country’s economy, and give military leaders a permanent veto over political and civil affairs.

These sweeping attacks on democracy passed largely unremarked upon by U.S. officials. In late July, the head of U.S. Central Command, Gen. Michael Kurilla, visited Pakistan, then issued a statement saying his visit had been focused on “strengthening the military-to-military relations,” while making no mention of the political situation in the country. This summer, Rep. Greg Casar, D-Texas, attempted to add a measure to the National Defense Authorization Act directing the State Department to examine democratic backsliding in Pakistan, but it was denied a vote on the House floor.

...

The crackdown on Pakistan’s once-rambunctious press has taken a particularly dark turn. Arshad Sharif, a prominent Pakistani journalist who fled the country, was shot to death in Nairobi last October under circumstances that remain disputed. Another well-known journalist, Imran Riaz Khan, was detained by security forces at an airport this May and has not been seen since. Both had been reporting on the secret cable, which has taken on nearly mythical status in Pakistan, and had been among a handful of journalists briefed on its contents before Khan’s ouster. These attacks on the press have created a climate of fear that has made reporting on the document by reporters and institutions inside Pakistan effectively impossible.

...

Pakistan’s foreign policy has changed significantly since Khan’s removal, with Pakistan tilting more clearly toward the U.S. and European side in the Ukraine conflict. Abandoning its posture of neutrality, Pakistan has now emerged as a supplier of arms to the Ukrainian military; images of Pakistan-produced shells and ammunition regularly turn up on battlefield footage. In an interview earlier this year, a European Union official confirmed Pakistani military backing to Ukraine. Meanwhile, Ukraine’s foreign minister traveled to Pakistan this July in a visit widely presumed to be about military cooperation, but publicly described as focusing on trade, education, and environmental issues.

This realignment toward the U.S. has appeared to provide dividends to the Pakistani military. On August 3, a Pakistani newspaper reported that Parliament had approved the signing of a defense pact with the U.S. covering “joint exercises, operations, training, basing and equipment.” The agreement was intended to replace a previous 15-year deal between the two countries that expired in 2020.

...

It is not clear what happened in Pakistan-U.S. communications during the weeks that followed the meeting reported in the cable. By the following month, however, the political winds had shifted. On April 10, Khan was ousted in a no-confidence vote.

...

The disclosure of the full body of the cable, over a year after Khan was deposed and following his arrest, will finally allow the competing claims to be evaluated. On balance, the text of the cypher strongly suggests that the U.S. encouraged Khan’s removal. According to the cable, while Lu did not directly order Khan to be taken out of office, he said that Pakistan would suffer severe consequences, including international isolation, if Khan were to stay on as prime minister, while simultaneously hinting at rewards for his removal. The remarks appear to have been taken as a signal for the Pakistani military to act.

Some direct cable cuts (besides what was addressed above):

quote:

Don further commented that it seemed that the Prime Minister’s visit to Moscow was planned during the Beijing Olympics and there was an attempt by the Prime Minister to meet Putin which was not successful and then this idea was hatched that he would go to Moscow.

I told Don that this was a completely misinformed and wrong perception. The visit to Moscow had been in the works for at least few years and was the result of a deliberative institutional process. I stressed that when the Prime Minister was flying to Moscow, Russian invasion of Ukraine had not started and there was still hope for a peaceful resolution.

I also told Don that Pakistan was worried of how the Ukraine crisis would play out in the context of Afghanistan. We had paid a very high price due to the long-term impact of this conflict. Our priority was to have peace and stability in Afghanistan, for which it was imperative to have cooperation and coordination with all major powers, including Russia. From this perspective as well, keeping the channels of communication open was essential. This factor was also dictating our position on the Ukraine crisis. On my reference to the upcoming Extended Troika meeting in Beijing, Don replied that there were still ongoing discussions in Washington on whether the U.S. should attend the Extended Troika meeting or the upcoming Antalya meeting on Afghanistan with Russian representatives in attendance, as the U.S. focus right now was to discuss only Ukraine with Russia. I replied that this was exactly what we were afraid of. We did not want the Ukraine crisis to divert focus away from Afghanistan. Don did not comment.

...

I said that over the past one year, we had been consistently sensing reluctance on the part of the U.S. leadership to engage with our leadership. This reluctance had created a perception in Pakistan that we were being ignored and even taken for granted. There was also a feeling that while the U.S. expected Pakistan’s support on all issues that were important to the U.S., it did not reciprocate and we do not see much U.S. support on issues of concern for Pakistan, particularly on Kashmir. I said that it was extremely important to have functioning channels of communication at the highest level to remove such perception. I also said that we were surprised that if our position on the Ukraine crisis was so important for the U.S., why the U.S. had not engaged with us at the top leadership level prior to the Moscow visit and even when the UN was scheduled to vote. (The State Department had raised it at the DCM level.) Pakistan valued continued high-level engagement and for this reason the Foreign Minister sought to speak with Secretary Blinken to personally explain Pakistan’s position and perspective on the Ukraine crisis. The call has not materialized yet. Don replied that the thinking in Washington was that given the current political turmoil in Pakistan, this was not the right time for such engagement and it could wait till the political situation in Pakistan settled down.

...

I expressed the hope that the issue of the Prime Minister’s visit to Russia will not impact our bilateral ties. Don replied that “I would argue that it has already created a dent in the relationship from our perspective. Let us wait for a few days to see whether the political situation changes, which would mean that we would not have a big disagreement about this issue and the dent would go away very quickly. Otherwise, we will have to confront this issue head on and decide how to manage it.”

On one hand, it's not as much as the U.S. has done in the past (seems like more of an Egypt situation; we're not going to intervene, but it sure would be nice if this guy was ousted, we might even be willing to ignore an oppressive military junta!), and it's a fairly crazy dichotomy between admonishing a consistent ally for the act of seeing other world leaders, and complete radio silence on the extremely unpopular coup.

Also some comedy in that it seems like US diplomacy really does have nothing left beyond threatening sanctions.

Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 10, 2023

# ? Aug 10, 2023 00:47

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

"The day after the meeting, on March 8, Khan�s opponents in Parliament moved forward with a key procedural step toward the no-confidence vote."

So the day after a meeting with Pakistan's ambassador to the US, they manage to start moves in parliament? Quite an efficient opposition.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 02:45

adebisi lives: Nov 11, 2009

The Pakistani deep state being efficient, timely, and effective does seem to track with previous history.

# ? Aug 10, 2023 03:15

Owling Howl: Jul 17, 2019

Human Rights Watch alleges Saudi border guards have killed hundreds of Ethiopian migrants coming through Yemen and the violence has been escalating.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 16:41

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

I thought crossing the Med from North Africa was a dangerous route.

But East Africa across the Red Sea to Yemen, then to the shining gates of KSA? Jesus that's got to be rough.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:28

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Count Roland posted:

I thought crossing the Med from North Africa was a dangerous route.

But East Africa across the Red Sea to Yemen, then to the shining gates of KSA? Jesus that's got to be rough.

Really, just short of attempting to fling yourself from Dakar to Brazil with a large slingshot.

# ? Aug 22, 2023 17:44

Victar: Nov 8, 2009; Bored? Need something to read while camping Time-Lost Protodrake?

www.vicfanfic.com

A Saudi man named Mohammed bin Nasser al-Ghamdi has been sentenced to death for his Twitter posts online. This is part of a wider effort from Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman�s efforts to stifle dissent. al-Ghamdi is the first to be sentenced to death exclusively for his online posts.

https://apnews.com/article/saudi-arabia-death-sentence-twitter-a2b5549806605d1d21f332ac4c36e43f

According to the article, al-Ghamdi is related to an expatriate in Britain who has been very critical of the royal family, which may be part of why al-Ghamdi was targeted with such an extreme punishment.

# ? Sep 1, 2023 04:39

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Victar posted:

A Saudi man named Mohammed bin Nasser al-Ghamdi has been sentenced to death for his Twitter posts online. This is part of a wider effort from Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman�s efforts to stifle dissent. al-Ghamdi is the first to be sentenced to death exclusively for his online posts.

https://apnews.com/article/saudi-arabia-death-sentence-twitter-a2b5549806605d1d21f332ac4c36e43f

According to the article, al-Ghamdi is related to an expatriate in Britain who has been very critical of the royal family, which may be part of why al-Ghamdi was targeted with such an extreme punishment.

Elon won't allow this, he's a free speech absolutist and friends with the Saudis

# ? Sep 1, 2023 17:07

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Which washed-up diving arsehole of a football player went there in exchange for even more money he didn�t need? I wonder how he feels about himself now, if he has enough mental activity to form an opinion on such matters as this obscene state brutality.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 13:44

Aumanor: Nov 9, 2012

PT6A posted:

Which washed-up diving arsehole of a football player went there in exchange for even more money he didn�t need? I wonder how he feels about himself now, if he has enough mental activity to form an opinion on such matters as this obscene state brutality.

Cristiano Ronaldo, Benzema and Neymar , just to mention the three most porminent ones.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 13:56

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

PT6A posted:

Which washed-up diving arsehole of a football player went there in exchange for even more money he didn�t need? I wonder how he feels about himself now, if he has enough mental activity to form an opinion on such matters as this obscene state brutality.

the money is more than enough to buy their compliance, that's the whole point

# ? Sep 3, 2023 14:19

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

yeah money is incredibly effective at getting people to forget whatever principles they may or may not have ever even had in the first place.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 15:10

Morrow: Oct 31, 2010

It's terrible and they'll speak openly about it once they finish their contract.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 16:50

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

Morrow posted:

It's terrible and they'll speak openly about it once they finish their contract.

preferably with a hefty book advance

# ? Sep 3, 2023 17:47

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

Herstory Begins Now posted:

yeah money is incredibly effective at getting people to forget whatever principles they may or may not have ever even had in the first place.

See the LIV-PGA merger.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 18:28

Saladman: Jan 12, 2010

PT6A posted:

Which washed-up diving arsehole of a football player went there in exchange for even more money he didn�t need? I wonder how he feels about himself now, if he has enough mental activity to form an opinion on such matters as this obscene state brutality.

I mean, people also worked for Blackwater and Purdue Pharma, and people still work for Philip Morris. Millions of foreigners pay billions of dollars to the governments of Egypt to visit it every year and to promote the country, as well as Thailand, and Iran, and etc, all of which have killed literally thousands of their own citizens during peaceful opposition in the last 20 years, including jailing teenagers for decades for tweets. Not to make that too much of a whataboutism, but I doubt Ronaldo will lose too much sleep over it, just like no one going to Thailand for holidays cares that the government has put literally hundreds of people a year, including minors, in prison for decades for making tweets about their king. Chopping up a billionaire journalist/arms dealer family scion is certainly more visceral than sticking a bunch of 16 year olds in a damp cave for the next 20 years, but it's also rare enough that it can be easily ignored by an individual and in any case the issue is largely irrelevant to foreigners, even those living in the country. I guess he would have to worry about his subsequent PR image, but that also doesn't seem to be a major issue.

The bigger shock to me is that it would be worth it to someone who already made $100m to move to Saudi Arabia to make $200m. At that point, the extra money will have literally zero consequence on your life, your children's lives, and your grandchildren's lives, and it means you have to spend 9 months of the year in Riyadh instead of spending it Manchester or Madrid or Torino or Madeira or literally anywhere else.

If you run your own business I guess I can understand being motivated by extra profits, but if you're just paid a salary to do a job, I absolutely do not understand how anyone can be motivated financially by the difference between $100m/year and $200m/year. Maybe there is something else to it.

Saladman fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 3, 2023

# ? Sep 3, 2023 19:00

GlassEye-Boy: Jul 12, 2001

Herstory Begins Now posted:

yeah money is incredibly effective at getting people to forget whatever principles they may or may not have ever even had in the first place.

Sure works for the US government, remarkably silent on the whole kashoggi thing. But now that SA is leaning towards BRICS and China, I expect we will see a shift in US public behavior towards SA.

GlassEye-Boy fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Sep 3, 2023

# ? Sep 3, 2023 19:09

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

IIRC the Saudis are giving Neymar like several hundred million dollars just to play in the Saudi league for one year

# ? Sep 3, 2023 19:23

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

Saladman posted:

If you run your own business I guess I can understand being motivated by extra profits, but if you're just paid a salary to do a job, I absolutely do not understand how anyone can be motivated financially by the difference between $100m/year and $200m/year. Maybe there is something else to it.

Warren Buffet said that the accumulation of wealth beyond a certain point becomes a prestige thing and it�s also sort of like being a collector. He said he realizes that more money is not going to change his life in any way but he still does it because it�s like a game or hobby to him now. He also said there�s lots of rivalry between wealthy people in different fields over who is richer even though more money won�t change their lives. I can definitely see that applying to a professional star athlete who is all about competition and being the center of attention.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 19:49

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

There have been numerous times in US pro sports where one player wants to be paid just slightly more than another star player for the ego of it. Everything is a competition at that level. This also applies to the rich. Why have a 100 ft yacht when you can be the one with a 150 ft yacht?

# ? Sep 3, 2023 19:52

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

prviate yachts are pushing 600 feet now. neymar's gonna have to have a few more seasons until he can afford to sail with the big boys

# ? Sep 3, 2023 20:14

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Renaldo also embezzled or tax frauded or something to the tune of tens of millions of euros and has had multiple rape allegations quietly discarded out of court. I don�t think he�s super concerned with morals.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 20:49

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Saladman posted:

The bigger shock to me is that it would be worth it to someone who already made $100m to move to Saudi Arabia to make $200m. At that point, the extra money will have literally zero consequence on your life, your children's lives, and your grandchildren's lives, and it means you have to spend 9 months of the year in Riyadh instead of spending it Manchester or Madrid or Torino or Madeira or literally anywhere else.

If you run your own business I guess I can understand being motivated by extra profits, but if you're just paid a salary to do a job, I absolutely do not understand how anyone can be motivated financially by the difference between $100m/year and $200m/year. Maybe there is something else to it.

A professional athlete earning $100mn (particularly in Europe) is a bit different to a middle class person who made it through a business over years. If you take that as a headline figure, the rough ballpark I've seen:

-45% in tax - down to $55mn
-10% of gross to agent - down to $45mn
-5% PR, management, health costs - $40mn
-20% money spent while earning it (can be a low estimate depending on lifestyle) - $20mn remaining

Then allow for the fact they're retiring at 30-35 and need to live off savings for 60 years, and then allow for the fact they're usually from a working class or poorer background so its expected they take care of a large extended family with their money once they get rich.

Mike Tyson made $250mn in his early career, close to $1bn in today's money, and still went bankrupt. 60% of NBA players and 78% of NFL players go bankrupt within five years after leaving their sport.

Its an obscene amount of money to a normal person for sure, but its easy to see why a player would chase more while in their very limited high earning window.

# ? Sep 3, 2023 23:48

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

Blut posted:

A professional athlete earning $100mn (particularly in Europe) is a bit different to a middle class person who made it through a business over years. If you take that as a headline figure, the rough ballpark I've seen:

-45% in tax - down to $55mn
-10% of gross to agent - down to $45mn
-5% PR, management, health costs - $40mn
-20% money spent while earning it (can be a low estimate depending on lifestyle) - $20mn remaining

Then allow for the fact they're retiring at 30-35 and need to live off savings for 60 years, and then allow for the fact they're usually from a working class or poorer background so its expected they take care of a large extended family with their money once they get rich.

Mike Tyson made $250mn in his early career, close to $1bn in today's money, and still went bankrupt. 60% of NBA players and 78% of NFL players go bankrupt within five years after leaving their sport.

Its an obscene amount of money to a normal person for sure, but its easy to see why a player would chase more while in their very limited high earning window.

Other people have to get an education and/or job

# ? Sep 3, 2023 23:57

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

Other people have to get an education and/or job

you don't understand, spending $20m a year on 'lifestyle' and having $20m left over at the end of the year means you really gotta get on that grindset

# ? Sep 3, 2023 23:59

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

i say swears online posted:

you don't understand, spending $20m a year on 'lifestyle' and having $20m left over at the end of the year means you really gotta get on that grindset

That $100mn quoted figure is career earnings not per year. The number of athletes who earn $100mn per year is vanishingly small, you're talking less than 10 people on the planet in any given year.

The median wage for all NFL players is $860,000, for example. Not a huge amount when the average career length is 3.3 years, and its something that leaves most players with broken bodies for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't take a deal of getting CTE for circa $2.5mn personally.

# ? Sep 4, 2023 00:34

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# ? May 25, 2024 01:01

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Blut posted:

That $100mn quoted figure is career earnings not per year. The number of athletes who earn $100mn per year is vanishingly small, you're talking less than 10 people on the planet in any given year.

The median wage for all NFL players is $860,000, for example. Not a huge amount when the average career length is 3.3 years, and its something that leaves most players with broken bodies for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't take a deal of getting CTE for circa $2.5mn personally.

Those 10 people are the ones getting 200mn a year to go play for Saudi Arabia, though.

# ? Sep 4, 2023 00:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

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