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WhyteRyce posted:You’re looking at like $2k plus for a 30TB ION but they are beautiful things Yeah I'm still on the fence but I might go for used 16 TB models off eBay at worst. Using them as HDD replacements I am not worried at all about DWPD / wear / IOPS. Any thoughts / recommendations on a backplane (or case, I guess) for U.2 drives? At one point I wanted to cram this all into a Node 804 but it'll just get too hacky / 3d Printed / thermal issues so I'll just do a separate box. This is the 'best' I could find right now: https://global.icydock.com/product_351.html quote:3 x SlimSAS SFF-8654 8i, pin-out defined by SFF-9402 Rev 1.1 And I would replace the 40mm w/ Noctuas + a custom fan controller.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:06
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priznat posted:I forget if I posted this already, a friend/ex coworker sent me this With the sheer amount of PCIe 5.0 lanes on Zen 4, I feel like it's a decent idea to use a PCIe 5.0 switch as a bandwidth bridge to cover PCIe 4.0 U.2 drives. The real guys are of course just buying EPYC but I wish there was a market for home users who want: * Lower TDP CPUs (e.g. Ryzen 7600) * Lots of PCIe lanes for used enterprise U.2 NVMe to have large amounts of flash JBOD storage
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Aug 8, 2023 21:09
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movax posted:With the sheer amount of PCIe 5.0 lanes on Zen 4, I feel like it's a decent idea to use a PCIe 5.0 switch as a bandwidth bridge to cover PCIe 4.0 U.2 drives. The real guys are of course just buying EPYC but I wish there was a market for home users who want: It would be really cool to have an external enclosure with an edge card to 0.5m cable to a box with a backplane for 8 gen4 x4 drives.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:15
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priznat posted:It would be really cool to have an external enclosure with an edge card to 0.5m cable to a box with a backplane for 8 gen4 x4 drives. Are people still doing PCIe over fiber? QSFP28 modules would probably work for a few lanes...
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Aug 8, 2023 21:37
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movax posted:Are people still doing PCIe over fiber? QSFP28 modules would probably work for a few lanes... Yes! It's something we should actually start seeing more of. Samtec has really been trying to get that going with individual modules that could do Gen4 x4 that just clip on the board near a package, then flywire (fibre?) over to a backplane for up to 100m lengths. I would not be surprised to see more coming with Gen5 support for rack based CXL memory pooling applications as well - the issue potentially being the latency though.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:47
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That video reminds of the one Samsung put out many years ago now where their interns put a bunch of SSDs in a RAID0 setup and put it on Youtube when it was kind of a new site. The performance they got with like 16 drives then is not that different in sequential transactions to what a mid-range PCI-e 3.0 NVMe SSD does now.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:51
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I am actually an idiot and should just go buy SAS SSDs if I truly just want HDD replacement flash.
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Aug 8, 2023 21:59
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movax posted:I am actually an idiot and should just go buy SAS SSDs if I truly just want HDD replacement flash. How are the prices on those? I wonder if they're dropping as enterprise moves to all NVMe solutions.
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Aug 8, 2023 22:11
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Hey guys, I need to get a replacement ssd for my mom's laptop. She doesn't use much space so I don't need much. Pretty much anything is going to be overkill. I just don't want to get caught out on one of the drives that is terrible for random reads (O/S) iirc... but I can't remember what the crappy feature is called... I plan to buy one from MicroCenter and install it this weekend. Is this $25 Inland "professional" one of the crappy ones? https://www.microcenter.com/product/659868/inland-professional-512gb-ssd-3d-tlc-nand-sata-30-6-gbps-25-inch-7mm-internal-solid-state-drive Also, I would prefer to get a drive with clone/backup software since Macrium Reflect isn't free anymore I'm hearing? any recommendations? Thanks so much everyone.
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Aug 8, 2023 22:52
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movax posted:What's the state of the art for doing a JBOD like setup w/ NVMe drives on ZFS or btrfs? Consider using Truenas Scale. It Just Works. You know I gotta ask it: what's your use case? I'd usually be wary of setting up an nvme jbod right now because of the expense of installing high capacity nvme in a system, what with all the extra cards that you will need. SATA SSDs are rear end cheap now and very, very hilariously fast in software RAID, even on a low power and low cost Intel stack, if you'd believe that (and if you don't need anything extra like streaming transcoding). priznat posted:How are the prices on those? I wonder if they're dropping as enterprise moves to all NVMe solutions. They're dropping if you're buying through a VAR. I wouldn't buy any secondhand SAS SSDs right now. Businesses dumping them right now would have installed them around ehhhh 2019 +/- 2 years, so unless you're restricting yourself to buying the 400gb mixed use dell/Toshiba drives ubiquitously kitted out as OS/scratch drives, these will have been installed mostly by people who had a hard life in mind for them. Well, maybe that's not true. If you could get lucky and get in touch with some schmuck SMB still running VMware that mindlessly bought hilariously overspecced ssd storage.... Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 8, 2023 23:09
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namlosh posted:Hey guys, I need to get a replacement ssd for my mom's laptop. She doesn't use much space so I don't need much. Pretty much anything is going to be overkill. Get her a Crucial MX500 for very little additional cost and put your mind at ease knowing it'll be very very reliable. You could probably get away with 256GB if someone is relatively careful about not downloading everything they see on the Internet or all their pictures, but with 512 you'll basically never have to worry about it. Up to you. https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=&cat=&ntt=crucial+mx500 Reflect Free will be going away in 2024 but you can still download the free version for now.
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Aug 8, 2023 23:24
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Potato Salad posted:Get her a Crucial MX500 for very little additional cost and put your mind at ease knowing it'll be very very reliable. You could probably get away with 256GB if someone is relatively careful about not downloading everything they see on the Internet or all their pictures, but with 512 you'll basically never have to worry about it. Up to you. Awesome, thanks so much! I'm going to get this one: https://www.microcenter.com/product/502348/crucial-mx500-500gb-ssd-3d-tlc-nand-sata-iii-6gb-s-25-internal-solid-state-drive She'll never burn through 512GB So out of curiosity, the drive above is TLC. Is it QLC that's to be avoided for anything with long reads/writes or as an O/S boot drive? Plus I guess 3D NAND is the new normal... I used to be caught up on this tech but I'm not at all anymore, lol.
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Aug 8, 2023 23:39
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With a sufficiently large amount of fast cache for writes, QLC is probably just fine for most folks, but if you just want to not worry about it then TLC is the right move.
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Aug 9, 2023 00:31
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Helter Skelter posted:With a sufficiently large amount of fast cache for writes, QLC is probably just fine for most folks, but if you just want to not worry about it then TLC is the right move. Coolio, thanks for the great info
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Aug 9, 2023 03:58
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WhyteRyce posted:
Bumping an old post but yes, this is proprietary vendor unique commands to send hot/cold hints about the data to the controller and no they have no interest in pushing it back into the spec (no competitive advantage in that case)
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Aug 9, 2023 19:53
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priznat posted:How are the prices on those? I wonder if they're dropping as enterprise moves to all NVMe solutions. I'm not quite sure how these will work in terms of pricing as enterprises rotate out of SAS over the coming few years but I don't think it'll be a slam dunk win for home lab dirt cheap target pricing. The first generation Xeon D systems are still rather pricey for being about 7 - 8 years old now, for example.
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Aug 10, 2023 02:18
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necrobobsledder posted:They're roughly within 10 - 15% pricing of the mainstream consumer pricing. A vendor accidentally shipped me an 18TB SAS drive rather than SATA and I saw that the price difference was maybe $10 - $20 USD so it seems to be following similar price curves with the mainstream on the spinning rust aspect of the market. 2.5" SAS SSDs (namely the Nitro series) I ordered last year roughly were pretty close to consumer pricing at the time (read: not that great). Looking around now they haven't followed suit with the NVMe drive drops going on for about half a year now a Nitro 3750 400 GB drive is still $307 on CDW. We bought I think 24 3.84TB drives about $800 each from CDW which was pretty nice but is roughly the cost of a brand new car these days and probably not appropriate for a home lab. Yeah, agreed they’ll taper off the manufacturing of SAS but if there was a supply glut there could be some sweet bargains.. sounds like that was not the case though I wonder if manufacturers were even taking inventory and removing the flash for repurposing on nvme or other more in demand items (I had heard of similar things for other products but probably the nand isn’t in as tight supply as things like clock buffers and certain fpgas) Also those Xeon D 1500s are really sweet chips. They’re such perfect machines for home servers/NAS applications it is really baffling why Intel didn’t try to get into or even create that market with partners who could make them user friendly/quiet/low power appliances.
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Aug 10, 2023 02:27
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The Xeon D 1500 series as I understand it went to hyper scalers primarily in CDNs and folks that needed more of that "edge computing" buzzword like 7 years ago but that's kind of fallen for reasons I'm not quite familiar. I had a 1500 for a while and it wasn't that much faster than my Xeon E3-1230 frankly and because I went to solar power I saw less need. Additionally, these are old parts now and with newer Xeon D chips supporting DDR5 and PCI-e 4+ finally it's silly to buy something that won't last all that much. Granted, I am now sitting on about 1TB of RDIMMs (64GB ones at that) with no idea wtf to do with them so maybe I should have held onto that board. My conjecture for the SAS v NVMe situation is due to over-manufacturing on the NVMe channel while SAS is sitting at replacement levels for the foreseeable future with long term enterprise contracts such as with DoD there's not much reason to budge on SAS pricing when competition for downward pricing is mostly for NVMe. Unless manufacturers are willing to start writing off all that inventory I don't see why they would be trying to convert it to price-dropping NVMe unless there's a huge warehouse glut sort of like what happened with wholesale oil prices years ago. But because those long term contracts are pretty stable they should be able to reliably predict shipments.
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Aug 10, 2023 04:03
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I got one free m2 SATA slot on my motherboard and unless I want to use SATA SSDs with cables and poo poo it’s my only option for more storage. Am I stuck looking for old 850 evos or does anyone reputable still make drives for that sort of slot?
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Aug 10, 2023 13:33
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UHD posted:I got one free m2 SATA slot on my motherboard and unless I want to use SATA SSDs with cables and poo poo it’s my only option for more storage. Am I stuck looking for old 850 evos or does anyone reputable still make drives for that sort of slot? WD still makes the WD Blue in m.2 sata. But for god's sake just have a cable, m.2 sata is a dead format and current mobos don't support it at all. You're buying something that will be trash in your next upgrade.
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Aug 10, 2023 13:51
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Klyith posted:WD still makes the WD Blue in m.2 sata. For reuse it might be preferable option to get an USB enclosure for the M.2 SATA instead keeping a cabled SATA drive on the future computer.
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Aug 10, 2023 13:57
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Or a USB enclosure with UASP for a 2.5" SATA drive so you have more choice now and can still find replacement disks in a few years 
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Aug 10, 2023 14:04
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Yeah I accidentally bought a very cheap sata m.2 drive. Amazon gave me back my money and said keep it. I got this enclosure for it that apparently supports both sata and nvme, so even something like that may get reused for something else if the drive ever goes bad or of I need to clone from/to an nvme drive.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:16
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Saukkis posted:For reuse it might be preferable option to get an USB enclosure for the M.2 SATA instead keeping a cabled SATA drive on the future computer. Standard internal sata connections aren't going away any time soon. (HDDs still exist) I don't know what type of weird OCD people work themselves into, that you would rather have a *cabled* USB enclosure outside your PC than a cabled drive inside it.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:19
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Klyith posted:I don't know what type of weird OCD people work themselves into, that you would rather have a *cabled* USB enclosure outside your PC than a cabled drive inside it.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:27
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i don't really intend to upgrade this machine for several years and if usb enclosures are a thing then i'm not going to be concerned about a drive being useless in the future. that said, i asked mostly out of curiosity since i don't have an immediate need for extra storage but when you install a new 100GB game you start to wonder. thank you for the food for thought everyone.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:56
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Klyith posted:Standard internal sata connections aren't going away any time soon. (HDDs still exist) The purpose is not to expand externally, it's to get a better USB stick. I have a USB-SATA adapter to easily connect drives, but I mostly use it as an external with an old, too small SATA SSD I had laying around, for example as recording storage for TV. M.2 would be much nicer form factor.
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Aug 10, 2023 14:58
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with acer's upcoming orion sff case, you won't have to choose between hot swappable storage and m.2 drives! the flap at the front is where you slot in the drive. pretty neat kliras fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 15:03
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kliras posted:with acer's upcoming orion sff case, you won't have to choose between hot swappable storage and m.2 drives! that's a warp core ready to be ejected.
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Aug 10, 2023 15:15
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So it looks like SanDisk Extreme Portable SSDs are being universally reviled by a lot of major tech sites like ArsTechnica, PetaPixel, the Verge... https://petapixel.com/2023/08/08/sandisk-portable-ssds-are-failing-so-frequently-we-can-no-longer-recommend-them/ https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/22/23733267/sandisk-extreme-pro-failure-ssd-firmware https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/sandisk-extreme-ssds-keep-abruptly-failing-firmware-fix-for-only-some-promised/ https://www.reddit.com/r/editors/comments/10qbn3a/potential_trouble_with_sandisk_extreme_pro_ssds/ Their only response to all of this, so far, is to issue s firmware patch for 4 TB units only, but it seems all of their capacities for this model are affected.
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Aug 10, 2023 15:44
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Binary Badger posted:So it looks like SanDisk Extreme Portable SSDs are being universally reviled by a lot of major tech sites like ArsTechnica, PetaPixel, the Verge... haha, the petapixel article’s list of “related articles” included the one recommending the Extreme Portable, which they have notably not updated to be any less effusive in its praise for the device
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Aug 11, 2023 01:54
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im a luddite who would just use a standard nvme drive in a usb 3.2 enclosure
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Aug 11, 2023 10:36
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making a frowny face when my mx500 in a sata to usb enclosure transfers at a brisk 260mb/sec because it only handshaked to usb 3.0 5gbps mode instead of the 3.1 10gbps it was supposedly capable of
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Aug 11, 2023 11:57
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I recently transferred a bunch of stuff over to an 8tb Samsung 870 in a USB enclosure. The other day I went to play some music and started getting messages that the folder I was trying to use was inaccessible or corrupted. I ran chkdsk /f /r and after about 8 hours it spit out this message.  The directories are now accessible but the music players won't play the files in them. Samsung wizard won't do anything with the drive because it's in an enclosure. How do I tell if it's an issue with the drive/bad sectors vs a problem with the initial transfer of files? Should I be returning it? Just recopy the files? It has me spooked since this was going to be my daily driver low write/high read media drive for a while. edit: I should add that except for a number of music directories the things I've tested seem to work. I have only tried a small sample though. MixMasterMalaria fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Aug 11, 2023 |
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Aug 11, 2023 17:50
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MixMasterMalaria posted:The directories are now accessible but the music players won't play the files in them. Samsung wizard won't do anything with the drive because it's in an enclosure. How do I tell if it's an issue with the drive/bad sectors vs a problem with the initial transfer of files? Should I be returning it? Just recopy the files? It has me spooked since this was going to be my daily driver low write/high read media drive for a while. CrystalDiskInfo should read the drive's SMART info even through the USB enclosure, if it's a standard generic USB-sata thing. That'll get you drive health stats. Besides the drive or an error with the initial transfer / filesystem fuckup, there's also the possibility that your enclosure is the problem. Some USB enclosures list a maximum drive size, you might want to check yours? I have no idea why a sata to USB mass storage chip would have a max size, but some do.
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Aug 11, 2023 18:27
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Klyith posted:CrystalDiskInfo should read the drive's SMART info even through the USB enclosure, if it's a standard generic USB-sata thing. That'll get you drive health stats. Thank you. I'm kind of leaning towards the filesystem fuckup impacting initial transfer theory but I'm open to ideas. Here's what CrystalDiskInfo showed.  and this is the enclosure: it's spec up to 8tb, but I'm open to faster alternatives. I got this one because it was cheap and bus powered. 
MixMasterMalaria fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 11, 2023 |
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Aug 11, 2023 18:40
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Also, some enclosures have RealTek controllers, others have VIA, others Phison.. this is what keeps Linux developers busy writing device drivers for all the USB controllers out there coming from about 24 major chipset vendors, which also include Intel and proprietary controllers made by the storage companies themselves. There's also literally no guarantee that one chipset will work 100% with a given different chipset. Your laptop might have a Intel USB chipset but it might not talk to the no-name chipset in the enclosure you bought from AliExpress for $9.95 When you buy USB to SATA enclosures for platter drives it's the same, like once I bought an Inland 3.5" enclosure and printed right on the box it said it only supported up to 4 TB drives. Want to put in something bigger? Pony up for another brand that lists a maximum 8 TB supported.
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Aug 11, 2023 18:46
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Klyith posted:Some USB enclosures list a maximum drive size, you might want to check yours? I have no idea why a sata to USB mass storage chip would have a max size, but some do. E: also if checkdisk comes back like that I'd work from the point of view that everything is corrupted.
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Aug 11, 2023 18:58
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MixMasterMalaria posted:Thank you. I'm kind of leaning towards the filesystem fuckup impacting initial transfer theory but I'm open to ideas. Well, the drive thinks everything is fine -- no errors at all, even the unimportant ones like CRC error. I don't know how the hell the OS would gently caress up copying files like that, but it's possible I guess. I'd say wipe the drive and redo from start. As Flipper says, you can't really trust anything you wrote the first time, and if you still have the source data better to just do the whole thing over again. If it happens again I'd look skeptically at the enclosure. Sabrent is usually fine though?
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Aug 11, 2023 22:56
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So I got a new computer recently, and I was looking to add some additional storage to it. Currently, it has a 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus PCIe NVME, which has the OS on it, along with some games/apps and miscellaneous files. Originally I wanted to do a 4TB, but it would have cost a lot more. I'd like to add another M.2 stick but I don't know if with the board I have (MSI Pro Z790-A WiFi DDR5) if I can add another M.2 without sacrificing performance (as I learned that depending on the slot(s) you use, it will downgrade the PCIe lanes for the graphics card). For an 2.5" SSD, I was thinking about one of the Samsung 4TB drives (either the EVO or QVO, I forget what the difference other than one handles data differently), which are both around $200 on Amazon. I looked at the WD SSDs, but it seem like they only have the 2.5" in the Blue and Red version; the WD_Black is M.2 only. In addition to the SSD, I was also planning on adding a HDD. I was thinking about the Seagate Barracuda 8TB, which is about $120 on Amazon. Dunno if there's something better to go with.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:10
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