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Halloween Jack posted:
Since we are going deep into the nonsense, is DSotBH putting forth the idea that the [Tzimisce] antediluvian caught the disease and became the Ultimate Souleater? Or is this a 'Classic Coke' and 'New Coke' situation?
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Aug 10, 2023 19:30
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Night10194 posted:I suspect the reason the Technocracy get taken how they do so often comes from several places. I think you're definitely on to something there. There's also the aspect of there being objectively good things that the Technocracy did, stuff like modern medicine or the literal wall in the Umbra keeping horrors from beyond the stars from devouring everything. Don't misunderstand me, I think the Technocracy loving sucks, but it doesn't help that the writers had a bunch of big ideas and lacked the skill to clearly articulate those ideas.
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Aug 10, 2023 19:47
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I like their counterparts in Mage the Awakening, the Seers of the Throne, simply because they're much more explicitly awful people and there's no getting around that. The Mage the Ascension fandom has a lot of people apologizing for/flat out wanting to be a part of the Technocracy because of the aforementioned benefits that don't make up for the horrible things they do, but I've never seen a single person treat the Seers as anything but the worst people on Earth.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:00
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joylessdivision posted:I think you're definitely on to something there. There's also the aspect of there being objectively good things that the Technocracy did, stuff like modern medicine or the literal wall in the Umbra keeping horrors from beyond the stars from devouring everything. This I think is also a big strike against Traditions and almost a bigger extent oChangeling, if you're disabled or had to have a major medical procedure, it's kind of hard to be sympathetic to the faction that has been written with various levels of "Well I never needed to be inside one of those icky sterile-looking hospital, so it's really not necessary and actually soul-crushing."
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Aug 10, 2023 20:03
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Whirling posted:I like their counterparts in Mage the Awakening, the Seers of the Throne, simply because they're much more explicitly awful people and there's no getting around that. The Mage the Ascension fandom has a lot of people apologizing for/flat out wanting to be a part of the Technocracy because of the aforementioned benefits that don't make up for the horrible things they do, but I've never seen a single person treat the Seers as anything but the worst people on Earth. Yeah, awakening made some mistakes (first ed core was very bland, I thought, and the Atlantis focus didn't really get worked into something that I would have wanted to use until much later in the line), but the seers were very much what the technocracy should have been. Peel off the good things, and focus in on making them a usable, understandable, and thoroughly unpleasant villain faction.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:13
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Pakxos posted:Since we are going deep into the nonsense, is DSotBH putting forth the idea that the [Tzimisce] antediluvian caught the disease and became the Ultimate Souleater? Or is this a 'Classic Coke' and 'New Coke' situation? The Tzimisce clanbook tells an alternate "creation myth" where Tzimisce had Vicissitude from the start, faked its death during the Anarch Revolt, and eventually becomes the gigantic blob of Vicissitude that's central to one of the scenarios in Gehenna, which makes no mention of Souleaters. The Souleater mythos was just quietly retconned out of existence, as far as I know. It's possible that the Souleaters themselves weren't retconned--they're ultimately just Bane spirits, after all--but the idea that Vicissitude isn't a real Discipline was discarded. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 20:15
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Robindaybird posted:This I think is also a big strike against Traditions and almost a bigger extent oChangeling, if you're disabled or had to have a major medical procedure, it's kind of hard to be sympathetic to the faction that has been written with various levels of "Well I never needed to be inside one of those icky sterile-looking hospital, so it's really not necessary and actually soul-crushing." I've been a librarian for most of my career. I currently work in education administration. My job is to be organized and organize things for others. I do this because my work makes knowledge accessible to others and allows other people to grow and learn. My work is dry and mechanical, but I'm part of a bureaucratic engine that enables good things for people who would otherwise not have access to those things. According to oMage and oChangeling, I'm literally killing the souls of children and smothering magic.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:18
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Halloween Jack posted:No, as we'll get into in the next chapter, there's an Original Recipe Clan Tzimisce that has Dominate instead of Vicissitude. (Another theme of the character creation chapter is "everybody wants to be Ventrue.") The Tzimisce Antediluvian was diablerized in the Anarch Revolt. Um. Yes. It was. Absolutely. No doubt. Be a good lad.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:20
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Pakxos posted:Since we are going deep into the nonsense, is DSotBH putting forth the idea that the [Tzimisce] antediluvian caught the disease and became the Ultimate Souleater? Or is this a 'Classic Coke' and 'New Coke' situation? I think Tzimisce being still around didn't get confirmed until Revised and was revealed in the fiction around the events that occurred right before New York by Night. I'm sure the Vicissitude is a trap created by the Eldest to take over all animal life on Earth was influenced by it in some way but it was always, this is something new like Dementation and the implications are not good up until that point in Gehenna. It's been a while since I read Children of the Inquisition but from what I remember it's mainly Lambach is just a sad guy who is pretty sure the clan founder is still around and not all the stuff about how he's the Eldest's chosen or whatever.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:24
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The Seers are a way, way better villain faction. They're so awful in every possible way, and their bosses are even worse.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:24
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Halloween Jack posted:The Souleater mythos was just quietly retconned out of existence, as far as I know. It's possible that the Souleaters themselves weren't retconned--they're ultimately just Bane spirits, after all--but the idea that Vicissitude isn't a real Discipline was discarded. Oh wow, so this author making it so og [Tzimisce] didn't even have the clan's signature discipline. On one hand, could have made for an interesting throughline on the clan 'We're so superior, we have powers even our founder never dreamed of!' On the other, the concept is really not well thought out.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:24
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And I haven't even shown you the terrible JoJo's Bizarre Adventure fanfic.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:28
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Halloween Jack posted:And I haven't even shown you the terrible JoJo's Bizarre Adventure fanfic. Were White Wolf writers reading JoJo in the 90s? Despite its popularity in Japan and in some European countries, it was pretty niche in America before the TV anime came out, IIRC. Though the OVA had its fans; I could see a White Wolf writer creating a new type of vampire with time-stopping powers.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:56
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Silver2195 posted:Were White Wolf writers reading JoJo in the 90s? Despite its popularity in Japan and in some European countries, it was pretty niche in America before the TV anime came out, IIRC. Though the OVA had its fans; I could see a White Wolf writer creating a new type of vampire with time-stopping powers. There was that one 90s comic that was Literally JoJo 
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Aug 10, 2023 21:02
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Silver2195 posted:Were White Wolf writers reading JoJo in the 90s? Despite its popularity in Japan and in some European countries, it was pretty niche in America before the TV anime came out, IIRC. Though the OVA had its fans; I could see a White Wolf writer creating a new type of vampire with time-stopping powers. Unclear. James A. Moore wrote Demon Hunter X for the Year of the Racism stuff and talks about anime influences but it felt like mostly what he was going on was Battle of the Planets.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:07
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Halloween Jack posted:And I haven't even shown you the terrible JoJo's Bizarre Adventure fanfic. Wait, is this also where the time-controlling vampires come from? I really know very little of JoJo.
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Aug 10, 2023 22:15
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bit slow on the draw, but re: Chantries from what I could see, I'm not wholly convinced Lo Pan and friends should've even been in the nephandi section They are evil, but they don't really strike me as Nephandi Grade Evil(tm) Chantry so much as a Rogue Chantry (run by a former/technically nephandi). Iunno, not enough weird gribblies, bizarre spacial dimensions, nigh-guaranteed damnation (insidiousness varying), that sort of thing. e: and, y'know. some non-nephandi chantries in the same book being markedly worse. Arcanuse fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 22:56
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Arcanuse posted:bit slow on the draw, but re: Chantries Yeah, but he's a nephandi, so just by portraying him you hurt your soul. Brucato says so.
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Aug 11, 2023 00:02
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Cythereal posted:I've been a librarian for most of my career. I currently work in education administration. My job is to be organized and organize things for others. I do this because my work makes knowledge accessible to others and allows other people to grow and learn. My work is dry and mechanical, but I'm part of a bureaucratic engine that enables good things for people who would otherwise not have access to those things. But in real life, you’re a hero! Thank you!
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Aug 11, 2023 00:11
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Was Brucato's weird nonsense about RPGs = chaos magic(k) and it being legitimately spiritually dangerous for players to have their characters be evil/do evil things a belief that he came into before or early on in his career with White Wolf or was it something that he got into his head later? Because my impression is that it's the latter and that he got a lot weirder during his time away from WW prior to coming back to write Changing Breeds.
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Aug 11, 2023 00:26
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Fish Heads posted:Was Brucato's weird nonsense about RPGs = chaos magic(k) and it being legitimately spiritually dangerous for players to have their characters be evil/do evil things a belief that he came into before or early on in his career with White Wolf or was it something that he got into his head later? Because my impression is that it's the latter and that he got a lot weirder during his time away from WW prior to coming back to write Changing Breeds. It seems like it was always kinda present but he didn't go hard on it until like M20.
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Aug 11, 2023 00:40
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Robindaybird posted:This I think is also a big strike against Traditions and almost a bigger extent oChangeling, if you're disabled or had to have a major medical procedure, it's kind of hard to be sympathetic to the faction that has been written with various levels of "Well I never needed to be inside one of those icky sterile-looking hospital, so it's really not necessary and actually soul-crushing." On one podcast that I was listening to discussing oChangeling, one of the hosts made the observation that PCs in an oChangeling game would be anti-vaxxers. Everyone else hated that he made this point but couldn't really dispute it.
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Aug 11, 2023 00:50
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Dawgstar posted:It seems like it was always kinda present but he didn't go hard on it until like M20. And let's not forget he went ahead and made a 20A Nephandi book anyway.
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Aug 11, 2023 01:35
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SimonChris posted:Comics Cobra in particular is a fantastic source of inspiration for a Technocracy campaign: This is great except that America would never cut defense spending
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Aug 11, 2023 01:37
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Pakxos posted:Wait, is this also where the time-controlling vampires come from? I really know very little of JoJo. Wait, oWoD really did have time-controlling vampires? The main villain of Part 3 of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is a vampire with time-stopping powers. To be clear, his time-stopping powers are completely separate from his being a vampire. He was also the main villain of Part 1, but didn't have time-stopping powers back then; he was just a vampire. In Part 7, we meet his less-evil alternate universe counterpart, who is not a vampire but can turn into a velociraptor, as well as the alternate universe counterpart of his alternate universe counterpart, who can stop time but is not a vampire.
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Aug 11, 2023 01:58
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Silver2195 posted:Wait, oWoD really did have time-controlling vampires? It had the True Brujah, who have a Discipline that manipulates the occult wotsit that keeps a vampire's body eternal to create basically reverse-Celerity. Rather than speeding the vampire up, it slows everyone else down. They're from Dirty Secrets!
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Aug 11, 2023 02:19
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Its the clan Anis in Bob's MotRD belongs to - which is rather interesting because DSotBH came out all of five months earlier, and the use of temporis for some major plot beats suggests it wasn't just slapped on in edit. I reckon either his son ran out to buy DSotBH when it released or the folks running him at WW filled him in on the True Brujah when he decided to make Anis the mastermind of [Brujah]'s diablerie.
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Aug 11, 2023 03:41
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Loomer posted:Its the clan Anis in Bob's MotRD belongs to - which is rather interesting because DSotBH came out all of five months earlier, and the use of temporis for some major plot beats suggests it wasn't just slapped on in edit. I reckon either his son ran out to buy DSotBH when it released or the folks running him at WW filled him in on the True Brujah when he decided to make Anis the mastermind of [Brujah]'s diablerie. Has Anis gone into how Celerity is a "corruption" of Temporis? That used to be a thing.
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Aug 11, 2023 04:02
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Not yet - not that I recall, anyway.
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Aug 11, 2023 04:27
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Arcanuse posted:bit slow on the draw, but re: Chantries Honestly Lo Pan and friends seem generally nicer than those Euthanatos. Not even the (ex)Nephandi decided to draw magic from Dachau.
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Aug 11, 2023 05:51
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Everyone posted:Honestly Lo Pan and friends seem generally nicer than those Euthanatos. Not even the (ex)Nephandi decided to draw magic from Dachau. There are two universes. One where WW decided on Voormas as the ultimate Mage villain and one where they decided on the Jade Demon. We live in the lesser one.
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Aug 11, 2023 13:42
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John Carpenter's World of Darkness.
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Aug 11, 2023 14:17
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Explodingdice posted:John Carpenter's World of Darkness.
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Aug 11, 2023 14:42
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SirPhoebos posted:On one podcast that I was listening to discussing oChangeling, one of the hosts made the observation that PCs in an oChangeling game would be anti-vaxxers. Everyone else hated that he made this point but couldn't really dispute it. There's a great line in, I think, the Glass Walker Revised book about how Yes, vaccines have tiny little banes in them but any theurge who thinks they shouldn't be vaccinating their kinfolk is an rear end in a top hat because there's a very simple bane cleansing rite but there's no rite that cleanses polio.
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Aug 11, 2023 15:18
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Kurieg posted:There's a great line in, I think, the Glass Walker Revised book about how Yes, vaccines have tiny little banes in them but any theurge who thinks they shouldn't be vaccinating their kinfolk is an rear end in a top hat because there's a very simple bane cleansing rite but there's no rite that cleanses polio. Thanks, Technocracy! 
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Aug 11, 2023 15:21
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Kurieg posted:There's a great line in, I think, the Glass Walker Revised book about how Yes, vaccines have tiny little banes in them but any theurge who thinks they shouldn't be vaccinating their kinfolk is an rear end in a top hat because there's a very simple bane cleansing rite but there's no rite that cleanses polio. Remember to talk to your local shaman about how to deal with bane build up in your body.
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Aug 11, 2023 15:24
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You will not be saved by the August Personage. You will not be saved by the Five Metal Dragons. In fact, you will not be saved!
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Aug 11, 2023 15:38
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Joylessdivisions World of Dorkness Presents The Book of Chantries - Haighters Gonna Hate Volume 4 Part 10 Resonance Over time, the temperament of both a Mage and their Realm begins to influence the other. The stronger the personality or atmosphere of a Realm, the greater the influence, and if one side of the equation is weaker than the other, then the dominant force eventually alters the original nature of the weaker. If both sides are more or less equal, resonance begins. The longer a resonance continues, the greater the effects, as physical characteristics may alter, causing the Realm and Mage to become distorted mirrors of each other. This typically takes centuries but may occur sooner with particularly strong energies. Nodes dedicated to a specific energy may also trigger this effect. Resonance, however, is not a universal truth. Many Realms exist for centuries without ever taking on the temperament of their creators (and vice versa) while other realms warp themselves and their residents in only decades. More spiritually attuned Mages see resonance as proof of the “Moral Fabric” of reality, or karmic payback for tapping “Good” or “Bad” energy. The Four Seasons The Mythic Age saw the birth of the “Seasonal” theory of a Chantries natural cycle. This “Change of Seasons” is like the idea of Resonances, but it is one that affects all Chantries. So, it’s not a similar idea to Resonances, it’s just a thing that happens. As everything is cyclical in nature, so too does the same hold true for Chantries. Spring When a Chantry is founded, it does so in “Spring” or the first stage of the cycle. It is weak, vulnerable and must grow into Summer. Failure to do so will lead to the Chantry being crushed by its own inexperience or by those who see it as a threat. These Chantries often make many mistakes, but what they lack in wisdom, they balance with vigor and enthusiasm, though this remains unseen by other Chantries, as those of similar allegiance look upon Spring Chantries as weak and irresponsible, if they bother to notice them at all, while enemies will see them as easy targets for destruction. Unsurprisingly, many of these Chantries do not survive to see their Summer. Summer The lucky survivors of their Springs, these Chantries are growing, but it has slowed, and they typically reach their peak of power in this season. As they become more stable, the vigor and enthusiasm begin to decline, replaced with experience and wisdom. While these Chantries are highly active, they still have not received the full respect they deserve. These are the Chantries that fuel the fires of the Ascension War. Autumn Just as Summer slips away from us all too soon, so too does a Chantry fade into Autumn. Its growth stops and thoughts of Winter begin to creep in. These Chantries are strong and confident, but their power slowly gives way to safety and security. Often these Chantries have grown wise and stable, wielding tremendous political power, and respect and status are gained as past triumphs are finally recognized. This season lasts as long as the Chantry can retain its dwindling strength and activity, often decades or even centuries. The elders begin to foist more and more dangerous tasks upon the younger members, and the Chantry overall becomes stagnant and set in its ways. Winter Finally, Winter arrives, and the Chantry enters its final days. The strength, confidence, vigor and activity of the past are replaced with weakness, hard-earned wisdom, glorious memories and inactivity. Those who remember its past still respect the Chantry, but the younger Chantries look upon those in Winter as useless or already history. During this period the Hobgoblins or older Mages become stronger and potentially deadly to the Chantry itself. Winter may come through major disaster or simply through a long, slow decline in fortunes. In some rare occasions, a Winter Chantry is blessed with new blood, and through the leadership of these fresh young Mages, the Chantry may once again emerge into Spring. Those elder Mages who can be encouraged to fight their Quiet rather than simply accepting it become involved in the rebuilding efforts, which leads to a second, much stronger Summer. I admit I don’t hate this seasonal idea, as it’s the basic cycle of death and rebirth, and mapping the power and functionality of a Chantry to that cycle works well to help explain the whole thing. Part Four: The Chantry Proper Finally, we’ve reached the fireworks factory…I mean the Chantry proper. Chantry houses take many forms, and the interactions of their members can range from brotherhood to full on hatred. A Chantry house could be a single house of any size, or a series of buildings grouped together. If you’re using the points system, then the size will be determined by points. If not, just make the building(s) whatever size and shape you desire. Like Realms, the form of a Chantry house(s) reflects the nature of the Mages who reside there, and also like Realms, Chantry houses tend to take on the characteristics of their occupants and vice versa. Strong Node aspects can also affect residents, as a cemetery Node will “feed” different energy into a Realm than a lush glen. Mage’s awareness of this effect can gain hints to how they will be received at a given chantry this way. By Any Other Name Sidebar The terms Chantry, Node and Cabal originate with the Order of Hermes, and are now considered common parlance. However, each Tradition has its own terminology, and even within a single Tradition there are three or four different words that all describe the same thing. Alternate terms for Chantry:
Earthly Aspects Chantries with Realms generally appear less grandiose on Earth than they do within their Realms, as the Chantry within the Realm is typically a truer representation of the Chantry than its material aspects, which are more often than not, disguised as mundane buildings. Exceptionally powerful Chantries, like Doissetep, have several Earthly aspects in different locations with different functions, and Portals within these buildings link them to Realms. A Chantry house, whether Earthbound or otherwise, must be constructed from local materials, as they do not spring forth from the ground fully formed, though vulgar magic can be employed to speed up the process. When designing your Chantry house, consider the materials and methods used, and how they reflect the nature of the Chantry house, as the inner essence of the creators as well as the external circumstances of the construction will influence the materials used. Security Most Chantries have a security system of some kind, from simple alarm wards or watchful servants to deadly traps and powerful guardians. The Quintessence drain of an alarm is minimal, while elaborate traps and wards require 5 or more Quintessence per day. The nature, accuracy, and cost of such systems is left to the ST. Populating the Chantry As less Sleepers Awaken, Chantry populations dwindle. In the Mythic Age, Chantries were often packed with Mages, consors and apprentices. Now, Acolytes and consors make up the bulk of a Chantries population, and ST’s should remember that the political games between members of a Chantry keep things interesting, and that servants often know more about the goings on of a Chantry than the Mages who live there. As each Chantry has its own internal demographics, the focus should be on populating them with people and not simply numbers. Mages Who are they and how many are there? Consider your NPCs motivations, wants, needs, ambitions, etc. With full Mages in such short supply in the modern era, what are the Mages in the Chantry you intend to bring into play like? The Net Sidebar The VA’s claim there is a huge virtual Realm that exists outside of the mortal world, but within the grasp of their computers. They claim that all computerized information can be accessed in this Realm, at least by those who have the skills. Rumors describe an ever-changing neon world where the VA and IX battle in a covert war amid the world's databases. quote:This huge realm will be detailed in a future Mage book Which is pretty funny considering Digital Web 1.0 was literally the first supplement for Mage released after the corebook, and so at a guess, Web and Chantries were being written around the same time, and Web managed to get through editing and layout before this one, and nobody bothered to go through and just excise this ultimately pointless sidebar. Consors and Acolytes Consors are the right hand of Chantry Mages, and while they know that magic is real and know the truth of reality, they are unable or unwilling to use magic themselves. By comparison, Acolytes understand there’s something odd about their Mage pals, but haven’t quite grokked the full picture. Consors generally ally themselves with one Mage instead of a whole Chantry, and may live in the Realm of their patron, and may not even be human. Acolytes, however, tend to stay behind on Earth. Who are these people and what drives them into such a dangerous position? What are they getting out of this arrangement and what do they want? Potentially most important of all, how well can they keep a secret? Servants and Guardians Because Mage’s are too busy being big brained magic dorks, they tend to leave the menial tasks of cleaning and such in their Realms to Servants. And while it is easy to simply portray servants as faceless background goons, ST’s she keep in mind that they are NPC’s with thoughts and feelings etc like all other Chantry NPCs. The same can be said of Chantry Guardians, whose motivations should also be considered. Are they bound or compelled to act as guardians, and how do they feel about it? If not, why are they guardians? The average Tradition Chantry will have between one and three Acolytes per Mage and one consor per two mages, while Constructs will have ten Acolytes per mage, and one consor per three mages. Labyrinths can have as few or as many secondary NPC’s as the ST desires. The Inner Workings of the Chantry Most Chantries have a history and heritage prior to the Mage’s who now call the place their home. Most newcomers will be faced with confusing rules and traditions, as well as potentially creating their own rules and traditions as they grow in power within a Chantries hierarchy. Understanding these inner workings of a Chantry is vital. Forms of Leadership sidebar Leadership takes on various forms, as each Chantry has its own quirks that make its political structure unique. This sidebar details a few of the more common forms of leadership.
Chantries are generally formed with a purpose or mission, and while the original goals of a Chantry can be accomplished, typically new goals replace the old, and in time Chantries can begin to explore directions that their founders never imagined. As the new generations of Mages enter Chantries, they bring with them new ideas and goals, and begin to reshape these strongholds. The purpose of a Chantry should influence the stories being told, as well as guiding the general direction of the Chronicle being played. Chantry History A Chantries history can be fully developed or left vague for later development, but ST’s should keep in mind that most members of a Chantry will know some of a place's history, even if it is filled with inaccuracies and embellishments. While the players should be given the known history of the Chantry, its secrets should only be revealed through roleplay. The Covenant When a Chantry is founded, the Mages draft a Covenant or body of laws that serve as a constitution of the Chantry. The Covenant should outline all functions, rights, duties and policies that govern the Chantry and its inhabitants. Most Covenants tend to favor the founders, as they put themselves at the greatest risk by founding the Chantry, while new members are typically kept at the bottom of the ranks, and must work their way up. Reminder that unless the players have founded their own Chantry, they will have to earn the respect of any Chantry they join. Covenants generally include all duties relating upkeep and protection of both Nodes and Realms, if not the Chantry and its inhabitants, and the details of its governing, codes of conduct and punishment. Most sensible Mages will request to read through a Covenant before joining a Chantry, though many don’t bother to read all the bylaws or ask about the oral traditions that may also affect them. Hierarchy and Politics among the Cabals Cooperation between the Traditions on an individual level, not to mention on a factional level is admirable, but ultimately a goal many fail to achieve. The threats of Quiet, Hubris, and the Technocracy all work to drive wedges between Cabals, and many treat their Chantries and Realms as territorial refuges to be defended from all comers. Each Cabal has its place in the hierarchy, generally based on seniority, though in some cases from personal accomplishment or power.  Hubris The sin of blind pride is possibly the greatest enemy of Mages, as the power to bend reality to ones will can have an even greater effect on a mind than even Quiet, as Hubris twists the personal quest for Ascension into one of acquiring more and greater power. The Technocracy, as well as the Marauders and Nephandi are all examples of hubris in action, Mages who may have once had good intentions, now grind those who oppose them into dust. When the pursuit of personal power overcomes the pursuit for Ascension, then the Mage has become a threat to everyone around them, but make no mistake, Hubris is not an affliction of the mind or body, but that of the spirit. Because the goals of Cabals often clash, most Chantries are filled with intrigue, backstabbing and treachery, and Mage’s must balance being politicians as well as scholars. While Chantries may present a unified face, they are often filled with as many rivals and potential enemies as there are outside their walls. These internal conflicts should play a role in your games, as these conflicts add excitement and color to roleplaying as well as the player characters and the ST NPCs. Remember that not all Chantries are filled with disloyal Mages, and the degree of politics that comes to the table is up to the ST. Duties and Rights All members of a Chantry have both Duties and Rights, and through faithful service they can gain additional rights. Provided are some potential duties and rights. Duties
Joining a Chantry Membership in a Chantry is earned, not given, as most Chantries guard against those who would potentially betray or burden them. Even a Mage who shows interest in joining their Mentor’s Chantry has to wait for an invitation. Some multi-Tradition Chantries and all Constructs have begun to use recruiting as a method of choosing the best and brightest of the new crop of Mages, though an offer of candidacy does not guarantee full membership, as recruits must face rigorous tests and background checks, especially in relation to the Technocracy. Those who do not belong to a Chantry yet usually seek members of a specific Chantry to attempt to gain membership, however some Chantries, especially older ones, limit their memberships to specific types of individuals, and these restrictions can be anything from Tradition, age, sex, religion, race, personal motivations, or magical abilities. Some simply limit the number of members they take on at any given time, while others will not take on any who belong to a different organization. Which seems like you’re just reiterating the same idea about discrimination due to Tradition. Though I suppose they could mean people who are already part of another Chantry attempting to join a different one. The Candidate Candidacy is the first step to joining a Chantry, and during this period, candidates are taught the basic, nonconfidential information about the Chantry, and are usually allowed to read parts of the Covenant. A Patron typically instructs the candidate and informs them of the challenges they must overcome to be offered full membership. Membership in a Chantry typically requires testing of the candidate's worthiness, and membership is rarely given without determining the quality and sincerity of the applicant. Tests vary between Chantries, and generally reflect the philosophical nature of the Chantries inhabitants as a whole. A VA Cabal might challenge aspiring members to a series of deadly video games to be played out in VR, while CoE members may drag the initiate through an extended visionquest. Regardless of the nature of the testing, the methods are steeped in tradition and occult embellishments, typically involving strong oaths, and a series of contests against other members of the Chantry, usually testing the candidates wits, loyalty and magical knowledge and prowess. New Mages are an investment, and everyone involved wants to be sure that said investment will benefit the group. Tests are also intended to provide an idea of the qualities and philosophies of the Chantry, and candidates may decide after testing that they do not wish to join the Chantry in question, even if its members wish them to. Initiation rites are considered sacred, and to reveal them to an outsider is considered a breach of ones loyalty. Successful initiates are welcomed with important rites, followed by heartfelt celebrations, as a new Mage is another brick in the wall against the storm. Once an initiate has been welcomed, they must take an oath of membership and abide by the practices and customs of the Chantry. Dues are often required, either in money, Quintessence, information or some other valuable. Optional Rule about Status and Honor Sidebar If the Chantry is built with points, Status costs three points per point of Status. Reputation cannot be bought with creation points.  External Relations Chantries generally try to isolate themselves from the outside world, but are never totally successful in this endeavor, as the Ascension War touches every Mage in some way or another. The allies, rivals and enemies of a given Chantry can affect it in innumerable ways, and provided are a few suggestions. Status and Reputation Status as a trait reflects the Chantry’s position within the Continuum, as well as its past accomplishments, destiny, legends, honor, power, influence and battle capabilities. Status can do little to help or hinder a Chantry, but it does give an idea of how individual members are treated and how they are expected to behave. Mechanically, Status ranges from 0-5, and when making Social rolls involving diplomacy or official missions on behalf of the Chantry, players may lower the difficulty by one per point of Chantry Status. Likewise, players are affected by the Chantry Status of other Mages. Status 0–Unknown or Disdained 1–Some know your name 2–Average Chantry 3–A degree of renown 4–Fairly influential 5–A legend incarnate Reputation functions like Status, but is generally more of a binary of Good/Bad. Reputation can add or subtract from Social roll difficulties, so a Chantry can be well respected as a great foe of the Technocracy, while still being despised for its greed and treachery. Status is the honor and accomplishments of a Chantry, while Reputation represents the perception of the Chantry as Good or Evil. The two can, and often do, cancel each other out. A Chantry's Reputation rating is up to the ST, and should be based on the actions of the Mages in that Chantry, and how those actions contrast with common morality. Reputation 5–Unimpeachable Honor 4–Scrupulous and Kind 3–Known for good deeds 2–Above Average, maybe lower 1–Avoided 0–Shunned Good Reputations generally include protection of the innocent, unselfishness, nobility, etc. while a Bad reputation includes deceit, insanity, murder, etc. ST’s are encouraged to invent different Reputations for each Chantry presented in play. Outsiders All Chantries have policies defined by their Covenants regarding outsiders. As there are more Rogues, Errants and Orphans than ever, the Nephandi and Technocracy use these outcasts as infiltrators of Tradition Chantries, and as a result, many Chantries deal harshly with outsiders. When you create a Chantry, keep in mind the attitude of its resident Mages. A Chantry formed by the survivors of decimated Cabals will likely have more tolerant attitudes towards refugees than would the ancient strongholds. Of course, a newer Chantry may be even more paranoid and attack strangers on sight. The purpose and history of the Chantry should inform their hospitality, or lack thereof. The Traditions generally try to deal with intruders in non-lethal ways, at first. Constructs do the same, though their reasons are far less altruistic, after all, new prisoners mean more Quintessence to harvest, and all Constructs have devices for refining Prime forces from living beings. How a Chantry deals with visitors, even unwanted ones will be reflected in its Reputation. Allies and Enemies It is paramount to define a Chantries ties to other Chantries and organizations, as allies will come and go through the course of a Chronicle. Enemies are important too, and while the Technocracy, Nephandi and Marauders are obvious foes, conflict between Traditions is absurdly common. While both the Traditions and Conventions suffer from in-fighting, the Traditions, lacking in centralized authority, are more vulnerable. Most Chantries will have a specific adversary with whom they have a history, whether that involves past conflict, a past embarrassment or ancient feud, and while players may not be aware of these enemies at the beginning of the game, they will learn in due time.   Possibly the first mostly frontal nudity in one of these books Rivals Less dangerous than enemies, but far more annoying, most Chantries as well as individual Mages, compete with each other, and Mages are notoriously poor losers. Rivalries are different than straight up enmity in that rivals tend to work towards a common goal when under duress. When things are safe however, all bets are off, as a rival may undermine their foes politically, recruit from a rivals Chantry, or struggle for resources. Rivalries often last centuries and some are good natured fun, while others are matters of honor. ST’s should consider possible alliances and conflicts during the creation process, as these relationships lay the foundation for further Chronicles Research Capacities Knowledge is power, and Mages exemplify this. Magic requires both study and experimentation, and because of the threat of Paradox or Sleepers, mages are forced to be careful. Libraries Chantry Libraries collect massive stores of information, arcane and mundane, for reference and research. Older Chantries typically have massive rooms full of books, charts and papers while the more modern Chantries will sometimes use computers to handle the storage of information. Regardless of the form, a Chantries library is a very precious resource that ST’s need to decide the nature and extent of. Stealing Written knowledge is unsurprisingly easy to steal. When the Technocracy destroys a Chantry, they consume all arcane information within and destroy the rest. Mages on both sides of the Ascension War steal important texts, and most libraries will have protectings, though a determined enough Mage can often get around these. Information Systems Magical lore is important, but so is keeping an eye on your enemies. While Chantries were typically isolated, the Ascension War has forced many to join the 20th century, and most now have information systems of one sort or another to allow for the gathering of all kinds of information. These can range from scrying devices to contacts and computers. The VA have improved Tradition Chantry systems via hooking them up to the Net, and these systems are in turn protected by powerful wards or guardians. When creating a Chantry, make sure to note down what kind of research capacity it has, as well as the protections associated.  Laboratories Labs allow Mages to practice magic and conduct experiments without the fear of disturbing others or invoking Paradox, and are almost always in the Realm of a Chantry. Of course, experiments require Quintessence, and gathering Quintessence takes time, as does conducting magical experiments. Master Mages often spend the majority of their time in experimentation and research. The nature of these labs depends on the research being done and the expertise of the Cabals performing it, so a dojo, vision cave or alchemical shop can all qualify as laboratories, depending on the style of magic being employed. Libraries, likewise vary based on the philosophy of the keepers of the Chantry. Research and Study are both detailed in the Mage corebook. The points system in Appendix Two offers examples of research capacities. Last Things to Consider Chantries play an important role in the lives of most characters, as well as providing a basis for stories, a common cause and even the potential foundation of an entire Chronicle. There are numerous ways to use Chantries in your stories, and at no times should an ST feel bound to fill out endless sheets of information about every Chantry their players encounter. Whatever role Chantries play in your game, they should reflect the themes of your story while embodying a tangible form of the concepts being presented. New Rotes Awaken the Sleeping Earth (3 Prime, 3 Matter) While the visual approach of reweaving the Tapestry will vary, mechanically it is the same. The player(s)/characters employ this rote through an extended action as mentioned earlier. Success brings Prime energy surging from the newly tapped Node into the Mages, at which point the flow must be solidified, and directed toward a waiting vessel, either a Talisman or portal to a Realm. The Hand of the Siphoner (3 Prime, 1 Matter) Raiding a Node requires physical contact with the center of the Node on Earth. Difficulty is the resistance rating of the Node, and each success grants 1 point of Quintessence. Raiding only works on Awakened Nodes, which means there is likely to be some form of protection as all Awakened Nodes are generally occupied by someone. Lying of the Line (3 Prime, 3 Matter) Allows a Mage to create one mile of ley line per success and can be used as many times as needed until the line reaches the Chantry, at which point the Node will directly transfer Quintessence into the Chantry. However, this does not mean that the Node cannot be raided or otherwise interrupted or drained. And that concludes Chapter Four. There’s a lot of good information in here, though I find it a little annoying that they keep banging on the drum of Appendix Two having the rules for how to create a Chantry via points. Not that I’m against the method, just that I got the idea at the beginning of the chapter when it was introduced, I don’t need the authors constantly breaking in to remind me that there’s a way to do this via points. Just keep all that poo poo in Appendix Two my dudes. The sidebar about the Net was an amusing bit to catch and speaks to the insane schedule that the WW crew were running under back in the early to mid 90’s with publishing these books. The supplement treadmill is real. I also liked that this book confirmed my theory that with regard to the first edition, the World of Darkness is supposed to be an interconnected universe where all these various games are taking place and that yes, the werewolves discussed in Masquerade books are the Garou, etc. Of course the argument then comes up about “Well what about this thing that’s part of Werewolf but not part of Masquerade” etc, and the easiest answer I can give to that is that 99% of the poo poo in any given game is directly focused on that game and its goings on, so of course when they mention one of the other monsters it's not going to be as clearly defined as if you were reading a book related to that other creature. Of course, the Kindred have incomplete information about the Garou and wouldn’t be able to differentiate between a Bone Gnawer and a BSD, just like the Garou and Mages wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a Cam, Anarch and Sabbat Kindred on sight, unless they had the sufficient dots in that knowledge. Having said that, it does make trying to map out a coherent “God’s View” of the setting a little more difficult, as you have to translate various bits from one game into its comparable element in the other games, but considering the most simple aspect of this translation is something like Quintessence which appears in three other games under a different name is in fact the same thing, but it’s all about perspectives. Now, does the World of Darkness universe adhere to a coherent cosmology? hosed if I know, I’m still trying to figure that out, but if you start fro the perspective of “Every monster has their own take on how the world works” and then drawing lines between the elements they share, things begin to take on at least a semi-coherent shape. Once again, I’m hoping that through sheer luck or praying to the universe, that the WoD setting bible, if such a thing existed, will fall into my lap and unlock all the secrets of the WoD universe for me. In the highly unlikely case of that actually happening, I’ll just keep puttering along, making connections as I can, and drawing my own understanding of what these dorks in Georgia were trying to do in the 1990’s. But there’s no time for that now, as we’ve got a story and two appendices to get through still, and I know some of you have been waiting very patiently to see what old Sam Haight was up to in this book so without further ado I present   Chapter Five: Harvest Time By James A. Moore The Salesman's Tale Harvest Time begins with a short story, The Salesman’s Tale, recounting the tale of a salesman who blew a tire somewhere in Kansas. After walking a few hours, he stumbles upon a farmhouse set behind a sea of corn. He realizes the only way to reach the house is to walk a further half-mile through the cornfield, which he sets out to do, but as he gets closer to potential salvation, he comes face to face with a scarecrow coming off its post, pumpkin head and all, and begins chasing the narrator with a pitchfork. Our narrator is eventually saved when he reaches the road again and encounters an old man by the name of Combey who takes him along to the nearest town. The story ends with our narrator relating that he doesn’t go to Kansas anymore, commission be damned. I like this story quite a bit, it’s short, but it nails the atmosphere many of us are familiar with from horror movies of the house in the field surrounded by corn, or from Halloween corn mazes. Also, I just really enjoy killer scarecrows, they’re always fun.  The Plot
Our boy Sammy Haight has returned from the Umbra with even greater powers than before. While he did not gain all the magical knowledge, he’d hoped to gain from killing El Dorado, he did gain a fuller knowledge of his Avatar, and now has knowledge of the Spheres, but only a basic understanding of how to use said knowledge. Theme Betrayal. While the players are worried about Haight and his plans, one of the Crombey’s is also plotting their own treachery. Mood Paranoia. What should be a relatively simple adventure is made so much worse by Sam Haigh and his Garou pals. While he’d rather avoid trouble, in the eyes of most Garou, as well as Mages, Haight is a thief of not only power, but life. Scene One: Off to the Marketplace The players are asked to examine and if possible, buy one of the pumpkins that are only available on the Crombey Farm. If the players are Verbena, then they are asked to pass on a “Message of dire urgency”, and a Verbena elder hands over a scroll embossed and sealed with wax. Truth is that the scroll is nothing more than a letter of introduction and a bit of gossip between friends. Whatever method the players choose to get to the farm, the trip is without incident, and the players have been given a hefty sum of money to try and make the purchase. Alternatively, the players could have one or more Cabal members who are related to the Crombeys, as they are well known among the Verbena, and are known to take students from time to time. Scene Two: Meet the Crombeys The Crombey Farm is located along a long dirt road, surrounded by an orchard and seemingly endless rows of corn. The players arrive in the late evening after the sun has set, and the air has taken on an autumn chill that shakes the corn stalks, causing a sound like the hissing of thousands of snakes. ST’s should make the most of the atmosphere here, keep the players paranoid as dark figures can be seen standing in the corn fields, staring at them with glowing green eyes. While the dark figures take no action, their heads move to follow the players as they walk. Once at the door of the farmhouse, they are met by a hulking brute, Troy Crombey. He is quiet until the players introduce themselves, at which point he smiles and welcomes them inside with a gesture. The interior of the house is warm and spacious, with a roaring fire keeping the night chill out. Sitting around a massive dining table are the rest of the Crombey family, eating a simple meal. The players are invited to join them, and after introductions are made and messages delivered, the business of trying to purchase a pumpkin can be broached. The Pumpkin Tree “Allow me to show you what you’ve come for” Alistair says when dinner is finished. With Troy and Cecilia in two, he leads the players to a large apple orchard.  While the wind rustles the branches, the players should feel the tingle of dormant power, and while the family is clearly watching the players carefully, they are friendly, even if their hospitality is a bit forced. The paranoid players might assume a trap, but in truth, they’re just Verbena being Verbena. In the center of the orchard, is the World Tree, massive and gnarled, hidden from view by the apple trees. It has a distinctly human shape, its branches stretching towards the sky like arms in supplication. The leaves of the tree are like those of an apple tree, and small red pumpkins, about the size of a cantaloupe, grow from the branches. The Crombey’s have buried their dead under the pumpkin tree for centuries, and the tree itself is the remains of the Chantry founder, who changed himself as he was dying to continue nurturing his family. The tree stands in the center of a permanent magical circle, with an altar, firepit and large cauldron nearby. Alistair will not offer any information about the tree’s true nature but will not deny it if the players figure it out for themselves. After a few minutes admiring the tree, Alistair brings the players back into the house to negotiate. Once back inside, the players learn the secret of the pumpkins, that each holds a substantial quantity of Quintessence, and each is supposedly capable of producing more, so long as the seeds are planted and nurtured over the years. In theory, these pumpkins could grow a Node, and while this would likely take years to do, it would still allow for a chance at creating new Nodes without having to deal with the Technocracy noticing the Awakening of a new Node. Shadows in the Corn Alistair starts the bargaining at an obscenely high price, knowing full well that he won’t get it, but he enjoys haggling. While the players and Alistair are haggling, Allison’s eyes glaze over and she warns that they have company. Strangers have arrived at the farm, but scrying only shows many shadows moving through the cornfields. Attempting to scan the minds of the invaders only reveals crazed, disjointed thoughts. Troy assumes treachery on the part of the players, and things are likely to get tense if the players can’t prove their innocence. Once enough time is wasted, the players are asked to help in the investigation while Robert offers to cover the World Tree. Allison stays in the house with Alistair, while the players, Troy and Cecilla head out for the fields. Mr. Crombey will warn of the potential danger, and so either one or both children will join the players, and if they split up, one sibling will go with each group. Scene Three: Hey, Did You Hear That? One or two players may remain at the house, but the rest should go out to the fields. The Cornfields Standing at 12 feet, the corn stalks are dense enough that they effectively separate players from each other, making seeing each other impossible, unless they fly. After a few moments, the players notice movement in the fields, some of these shadowy forms crawl along the ground, eyes burning with dim red light, while others tower above a tall man, but not quite tall enough to be above the stalks. The players are at the disadvantage, as most Mages are used to wandering around in the darkness. But Garou are. Any player with night vision may recognize there are Garou moving in, though unless they have a high enough Occult rating, they won’t be able to discern that they are BSD, and not just you know, normal Garou. If there are Dreamspeakers in the party, the ST can let them make the distinction. For the moment, it seems the Garou are content to simply stalk the players, as they are here to supply a distraction for Haight. If the Dancers are attacked however, they will retaliate. Oh, and did we forget about the scarecrows? Because they’ve taken notice of the figures in the field and are searching for the intruders. The players might be mistakenly attacked, as they cannot communicate with the scarecrows, but the Crombey’s can. This little game of cat and mouse should go on long enough to unnerve the players, when suddenly the family member(s) going with the players cries out “We’ve got to get back to the house!” Black Spiral Dancers *Stats that don’t really matter* Notes: All BSD can step into the Umbra and can throw balls of Barrow Flame that do 2 levels of Agg damage. All Garou automatically heal one level of non-agg damage per turn outside of combat, and the BSD claws and teeth do Agg damage (Strength +2). More details about the Dancers can be found in either the Mage corebook or in Book of the Wyrm. Image: All the Dancers are Metis, and the leader bears vicious battle scars that run from the top of his head to the point of his chin. Roleplaying Hints: Smart but crazy, the BSD will fight to the death, as Haight has promised to cure the Metis of their hereditary sterility. (This is a lie of course, Sammy hates all Garou equally) Weapons: SMG, small The Scarecrows Look like your average scarecrow except their heads look like mummified Jack-o-Lanterns, with a green glow coming from their eyes. All carry pitchforks (Diff 7, Strength +2) Innate Countermagic: The scarecrows automatically receive two dice of defense against any magical attack. Fire, natural or magical, inflicts double damage against them, but also risks lighting the entire field ablaze. Scene Four: The Killing Fields  A Perfect Guest Back at the farmhouse, a dangerous guest has just arrived. If anyone stayed with Allison and Alistair, they’d see Alison notice the visitor moments before he knocks. quote:“Mrs. Crombey, may I come in? While Allison is on guard, Sam’s easy-going personality and good manners quickly bring out her innate hospitality. Few Mages know of Haight’s status as “The Skinner” (and an Intelligence + Occult roll at difficulty 7 with four successes will tell them) and Sam is a perfect gentleman. Once the rest of the family (and players) have arrived, he is calmly discussing entry into the Chantry with Alistair. Attacking a visitor outright is forbidden because of Hospitality, but Allison suspects that Haight’s got an ace up his sleeve. Alistair listens to Haight’s simple proposal; allow him to join the Chantry, and he will share his Thaumaturgical wisdom with the rest of the Chantry. Sam does not lose his cool in the ensuing debate, regardless of what is said. He claims the Garou outside are simply his allies, and that they might be of use to the Chantry. If his reputation as “The Skinner” is brought up, he dismisses it as rumor, after all, if he was the mad Skinner, would he have a pack of Garou with him? After a rational discussion, which the players are encouraged to take part in, Alistair says he’ll consider it. Allison leads Haight into the kitchen, offering coffee. Cecilia is uncertain about Haight, he’s interesting but gives her the creeps. Troy is clear from the start, He doesn’t like or trust Haight, and if the rumors he’s heard from the Kinfolk over at the Miller Farm is true, Haight should be killed on sight. Robert is absent during all of this, and if contacted telepathically, informs him that he is keeping watch over the Tree. Alistair, despite what he said, has already made up his mind, and has no intention of allowing Haight to join his Chantry. He’s got his own contacts within the Garou and they have told tales of the Amazon War. A few names have stuck with him, one of them being Samuel Haight.  Over in the kitchen, Alison brewed a drugged coffee for Samuel, and summoned the scarecrows to the house. But Sammy is too sharp for that poo poo and is all too aware of the drugged coffee and the conversation going on in the other room. Allison tries to keep Haight busy, and for his part, his mask does not slip, and he keeps playing along as if completely unaware of what is happening. If one of the players chooses to check on Allison to make sure everything is alright, Sam explodes in violence, tearing Allisons head from her shoulders (while still in Homid form no less!). Haight then hurls the decapitated head through the kitchen doorway screaming quote:“You want a fight?! You self-righteous bastards, I’ll give you a fight!”. Of course, before anyone can do anything, Sam jumps out the window into the yard, where the sounds of battle have begun. The Dancers and the scarecrows are mixing it up outside and anyone trying to follow Sam will have to wade through the battle. The Crombey’s are in no state to think rationally, Alistair stands over the remains of his wife of nearly 200 years, howling his grief. Sam meanwhile is busy, as the scarecrows fall to the Dancers, he seemingly disappears in the darkness. A player with Correspondence 2 or Mind 3 will see Haight materialize at the World Tree clearing, but Robert is nowhere to be seen. None of the clearly shell-shocked family will think to check the tree in the middle of a fight, but if someone says something, they’ll beat feet to get there. Tomorrow: The conclusion to Harvest Time and Chapter 5
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Aug 11, 2023 15:53
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It's amazing the CoE have any recruits because they're constantly saying "Welcome... to the Pleasuredome!"
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Aug 11, 2023 16:55
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Dawgstar posted:It's amazing the CoE have any recruits because they're constantly saying "Welcome... to the Pleasuredome!" Obviously, Pinhead fell to Quiet or Jhor or whatever between the second and third films.
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Aug 11, 2023 17:14
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