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Welp, I'm glad someone mentioned GSW being dicks. Guess I'll cut that line. moths posted:Oh also KR Multicases are great, and they used to sponsor the paint thread back in the day. I've really liked the cases I've gotten from them. Do I want to try a magnet solution? Maybe - between the Mutalith and Magnus, it's been pretty tricky fitting things. Outside of things like that, they've been really good.
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Aug 10, 2023 17:08
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I would also recommend linking to monument hobbies. The pro-acryl paints are very nice for beginners and experts and come in dropper bottles. Also their branded brushes are surprisingly good, as they're likely just Windsor and Newton series7 with a different handle. I've been using their #4 sable brush as a daily driver for a while and it's on par with the #2 Raphael 8404 that it replaced. The #2 brush is good but I like the feel of the #1 Raphael more for extremely fine detail, so the monument brush has been relegated to the hazardous job of fine detail work with metallic paints. Idk how the synthetic brushes are but if you're buying synthetic then just get bulk brushes meant for a kindergarten classroom's watercolor day.
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Aug 10, 2023 17:10
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Improbable Lobster posted:Was it GSW or another company that published that book about how to make nazi gas chamber dioramamas? I think it was a spanish company. That was AK Interactive and I don't think they actually published it. I remember it being cancelled due to the backlash.
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Aug 10, 2023 17:42
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Ashcans posted:Warhammer Community posted the latest winrates, which show that there is still a lot of work to be done on balance: You see the data as an indication that there needs to be more balancing done in 10E. They see it as an opportunity convince people to buy Space Elves:  Go With a Winner
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Aug 10, 2023 17:53
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Stephenls posted:That was AK Interactive and I don't think they actually published it. I remember it being cancelled due to the backlash. They apologised for the crass marketing and re-issued it without the gas chamber diorama. So it's still the best source for how to make a diorama depicting the Rwandan Genocide.
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Aug 10, 2023 18:00
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Ashcans posted:Warhammer Community posted the latest winrates, which show that there is still a lot of work to be done on balance: I'm confused by using purely win/lose data as a metric to determine if a faction is over/under powered. Do they use it because it is the only (largish) source of data available? I would think information like "armies that contain one or more unit with [TOWERING] (or whatever) won their games X% more than the average win/loss rate" would be more useful from a balance perspective. Then they seem to be completely ignoring other variables like number of turns played, was the opponent tabled, mission/terrain set, or any other factor that influences a "win". Am I alone in thinking this metric is only a small piece of the story?
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Aug 10, 2023 18:43
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ASAPI posted:I'm confused by using purely win/lose data as a metric to determine if a faction is over/under powered. You sound like every good article reviewer I've ever encountered in academia
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Aug 10, 2023 18:45
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ASAPI posted:I'm confused by using purely win/lose data as a metric to determine if a faction is over/under powered. It is only a small piece of the story, and that data is available, typically through other sources like goonhammer.
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Aug 10, 2023 18:50
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ASAPI posted:I'm confused by using purely win/lose data as a metric to determine if a faction is over/under powered. You are correct in that it is only part of the story, but it is the single metric that is both easiest to collect and gives the best overview.
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Aug 10, 2023 18:52
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jassi007 posted:Michigan Toy Soldier: good online store, 10% discount if you sign up an account I went into their B&M retail store this week. It was glorious.
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Aug 10, 2023 18:56
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ASAPI posted:I'm confused by using purely win/lose data as a metric to determine if a faction is over/under powered. I can assure you that many armies have Towering keyworded units but only two of those armies are actually busted.
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Aug 10, 2023 19:12
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Eej posted:I can assure you that many armies have Towering keyworded units but only two of those armies are actually busted. Obviously an example thrown out there. The idea remains the same. Based on the way GW designs the games, I find it difficult to believe they are going much further than win/loss. My point was there are certainly other factors at play influencing things and a graphic showing win percentages doesn't begin to address those factors.
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Aug 10, 2023 19:19
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ASAPI posted:Obviously an example thrown out there. The idea remains the same. Based on the way GW designs the games, I find it difficult to believe they are going much further than win/loss. My point was there are certainly other factors at play influencing things and a graphic showing win percentages doesn't begin to address those factors. Sure, but the kind of data your talking about would help people solve the metagame. If you could parse out which units, enhancements, etc. were in winning lists, then lists would become more and more optimized. I guess there is a small group that would really love that poo poo, but for most people who have built and painted an army having a chance to win without chasing the meta or praying for bad dice is more ideal than big data. I'm sure some programming nerd could figure out a way to take all the data from BCP and do this, but would it make tournament experience better for like 90% of the participants? IMO no loving way. I'm surprised someone hasn't done it yet, Magic restricts data on deck lists to stop this kind of stuff from happening. I don't know how effective it is, but they understand data analytics could just tell you what is the best build of the top decks with complete info.
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Aug 10, 2023 19:39
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Al-Saqr posted:... Twitch has some great artist and communities live streaming their hobby time under the Warhammer category. You can also find some decent live matches being streamed as well. https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Warhammer Beerdeer posted:I went into their B&M retail store this week. It was glorious. MI Toy Solider is packed full of all the good stuff. The staff have always been friendly and helpful to me, even got to play at one of their tables at a local convention where they ran a couple tables.
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Aug 10, 2023 19:50
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jassi007 posted:I'm surprised someone hasn't done it yet, Magic restricts data on deck lists to stop this kind of stuff from happening. I don't know how effective it is, but they understand data analytics could just tell you what is the best build of the top decks with complete info. That's dumb. How is game balance supposed to improve if players don't push it to the limit in the first place? If everyone's playing the game ignorant of what's actually good it doesn't prove anything about the state of the game, only the state of the players.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:17
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Almost every single 40k tournament list along with how good it did is posted online and it is super easy to get that data and I'd be shocked if GW doesn't use it for balancing.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:30
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Geisladisk posted:I'd be shocked if GW doesn't use it for balancing. But we don't actually know, right? Have they ever offered a deep dive into their process? Until they make some kind if blog post or video series showing how they actually balance, we're just assuming. I'd love to see a detailed break down of how they do balance; show me the step by step. Just based on how I've seen any business run, the gap between what they obviously aughtta do and what actually happens can be enormous.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:34
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Jack B Nimble posted:But we don't actually know, right? Have they ever offered a deep dive into their process? Until they make some kind if blog post or video series showing how they actually balance, we're just assuming. I'd love to see a detailed break down of how they do balance; show me the step by step. They haven't, but the fact that they specifically target problematic units that keep winning tournaments (often quite fast) and not just blanket nerf factions when their % gets too high tells us that they use more info than just win rates.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:10
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Al-Saqr posted:if you have any online stores or hobby shops or specific places you go to for all of your hobby needs or painting tutorials or anything like that it would save me some time. If people in the UK (or willing to deal with international shipping) are looking for bits resellers for conversion work then it's worth mentioning bitzbox.co.uk, bitsandkits.co.uk and forbiddengaming.co.uk, I've repeatedly used all three with no issues. If anyone can make similar recommendations for EU, NA, etc equivalents that would probably be a be useful addition too.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:That's dumb. How is game balance supposed to improve if players don't push it to the limit in the first place? If everyone's playing the game ignorant of what's actually good it doesn't prove anything about the state of the game, only the state of the players. They're trying to thread a needle of players are good collectively at optimizing lists, if they had data for all matches played they'd get to "the answer" faster. The meta-gameplay of trying different game pieces to find the optimal ones keeps people engaged. Engagement sells product. Well that was their old position, now WOTC just makes trashy chase rares for whales, but thats another thing. I'd wager GW has a similar strategy, that they don't want everyone to solve the meta in 2 weeks to find the ideal lists and ideal armies, because they want to sell all the units to all the folks.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:41
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Except we do have perfect data on the meta because basically all tournament results are posted online.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:47
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Al-Saqr posted:Hey guys, I am working on the final section of the OP, the final section is about the hobby and how to make yourself a big-dick G warhammer dude, if you have any online stores or hobby shops or specific places you go to for all of your hobby needs or painting tutorials or anything like that it would save me some time.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:54
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I just learned that I've been playing Combat Patrol wrong in a small but really significant way: all Battleline units have sticky objectives in CP games. Now I understand how the Grey Knights patrol is supposed to actually achieve anything with such a small force.
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Aug 10, 2023 22:02
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jassi007 posted:They're trying to thread a needle of players are good collectively at optimizing lists, if they had data for all matches played they'd get to "the answer" faster. The meta-gameplay of trying different game pieces to find the optimal ones keeps people engaged. Engagement sells product. Well that was their old position, now WOTC just makes trashy chase rares for whales, but thats another thing. I'd wager GW has a similar strategy, that they don't want everyone to solve the meta in 2 weeks to find the ideal lists and ideal armies, because they want to sell all the units to all the folks. oh yeah in terms of business strategy it's depressingly effective, i just mean that trying to preserve the casual experience by obfuscating the good strategies is an incredibly dysfunctional approach to game design if your goal is to, like, actually make a deep and rewarding competitive game like when you see people complaining about lists or netdecking it's usually a maladaptive community response to a game that isn't fun to play at a high level; the thing is, "games should be fun to play at a high level" is not an impossible or even an unreasonable request lol
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Aug 10, 2023 22:03
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What are you guys even talking about, basically every single tournament in the world posts their lists and results to Best Coast Pairings. We have near perfect information on what goes on in tournaments at all levels. Obfuscating high level lists isn't a business decision by GW because GW has no control over what gets posted online. And yeah the game definitely gravitates towards "solved" lists for each faction, but it is rare for a faction to have just one "solved" list and there is still plenty of innovation. And it is plenty fun playing high level competitive games.
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Aug 10, 2023 22:13
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Geisladisk posted:What are you guys even talking about, basically every single tournament in the world posts their lists and results to Best Coast Pairings. We have near perfect information on what goes on in tournaments at all levels. Obfuscating high level lists isn't a business decision by GW because GW has no control over what gets posted online. GW isn't hiding poo poo, an article about winrates at tourneys probably isn't their entire analysis of game balance.
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Aug 10, 2023 22:17
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Improbable Lobster posted:GW isn't hiding poo poo, an article about winrates at tourneys probably isn't their entire analysis of game balance. Stu literally says as much in the video.
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Aug 10, 2023 22:22
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Roller Coast Guard posted:If people in the UK (or willing to deal with international shipping) are looking for bits resellers for conversion work then it's worth mentioning bitzbox.co.uk, bitsandkits.co.uk and forbiddengaming.co.uk, I've repeatedly used all three with no issues. Another UK offer is BitsMonster. For EU have Bitzarium (French), Bitzstore (French) and Bitsbay (Italian). Only shipped from the first one in the past so no idea about the second one. There is also Megabitzshop, but they don't ship to the EU, despite being based in Germany, due to tax issues. As for the US? You've got Hoard 'O Bits and that's it outside of Ebay stores.
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Aug 10, 2023 22:47
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Bug Xpostingro5s posted:Making a start of the Leviathan tyranids
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Aug 10, 2023 22:54
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absolutely love the color choices, good job!
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Aug 11, 2023 00:40
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Those are awesome, I love the naturalistic colours
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Aug 11, 2023 02:16
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Geisladisk posted:What are you guys even talking about, basically every single tournament in the world posts their lists and results to Best Coast Pairings. We have near perfect information on what goes on in tournaments at all levels. Obfuscating high level lists isn't a business decision by GW because GW has no control over what gets posted online. Read the loving thread if you want to know what we're talking about. Hint: not talking about GW hiding data.
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Aug 11, 2023 04:25
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ro5s posted:Bug Xposting Love the old guy nid
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Aug 11, 2023 05:19
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jassi007 posted:Read the loving thread if you want to know what we're talking about. Hint: not talking about GW hiding data. My fault, I muddied the waters by talking about player attitudes towards optimization in the same breath as replying to you about publisher approaches to data.
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Aug 11, 2023 14:33
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I do wonder what sort of analysis or data GW uses to try and balance stuff, but whatever they are doing remains leagues better than how they used to handle it, which was 'mostly don't think about it' and 'provide updates whenever they got around to it'. It sucks if you are in the dumpster right now but at least you might not be waiting years for a hand up. I remember when GW's advice for dealing with terrible game balance was 'we're sure you can think up something equally broken as a counter'.
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Aug 11, 2023 15:12
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Ashcans posted:I do wonder what sort of analysis or data GW uses to try and balance stuff, but whatever they are doing remains leagues better than how they used to handle it, which was 'mostly don't think about it' and 'provide updates whenever they got around to it'. It sucks if you are in the dumpster right now but at least you might not be waiting years for a hand up. Looking at you dark eldar. How many editions old was that codex at one point? If anyone tried to play it at the worst point it was like watching an archivist cataloguing how many different game mechanics and pieces of war gear in the codex just did not exist in the rules anymore.
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Aug 11, 2023 15:25
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bird food bathtub posted:Looking at you dark eldar. How many editions old was that codex at one point? If anyone tried to play it at the worst point it was like watching an archivist cataloguing how many different game mechanics and pieces of war gear in the codex just did not exist in the rules anymore. That was basically the old system - hope your army gets a codex this edition and maybe they'll put out an FAQ to address the nonfunctioning rules and that it. If your army sucks then better luck next time, idiot.
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Aug 11, 2023 15:30
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bird food bathtub posted:Looking at you dark eldar. How many editions old was that codex at one point? If anyone tried to play it at the worst point it was like watching an archivist cataloguing how many different game mechanics and pieces of war gear in the codex just did not exist in the rules anymore. Their first book was published in 1998 (3rd) and they didn't get a new codex until 2010 (5th). They did get a reprint of the codex in 2003, but it was mostly just consolidating some White Dwarf rules that had been published to the original book (for example, Dark Eldar were released without any Vehicle Upgrades, and those were later released in WD and added in the reprint). This was particularly brutal because Dark Eldar were introduced in the 3rd edition starter, so there were undoubtedly a bunch of people who decided to collect them based on their inclusion in the starter.
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Aug 11, 2023 15:41
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ro5s posted:That was basically the old system - hope your army gets a codex this edition and maybe they'll put out an FAQ to address the nonfunctioning rules and that it. If your army sucks then better luck next time, idiot. Maybe if you owned 3 armies you wouldn't have to worry about this!!!
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Aug 11, 2023 15:58
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Ashcans posted:Their first book was published in 1998 (3rd) and they didn't get a new codex until 2010 (5th). They did get a reprint of the codex in 2003, but it was mostly just consolidating some White Dwarf rules that had been published to the original book (for example, Dark Eldar were released without any Vehicle Upgrades, and those were later released in WD and added in the reprint). I started back in 2008 and it was painful watching people try to run dark eldar armies. The 2010 update was amazing but not all the old armies were that lucky. Ask me about running Witch Hunters 
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Aug 11, 2023 16:05
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