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https://twitter.com/chrisagwrites/status/1689421335242416129?t=mmUehqsnXjhAI-tJ6O4ahA&s=19 Someone is cataloging all the differences between the theatrical and digital version. It's a lot of small stuff that just makes me wonder "but why though?"
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Aug 11, 2023 17:28
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Arc Hammer posted:https://twitter.com/chrisagwrites/status/1689421335242416129?t=mmUehqsnXjhAI-tJ6O4ahA&s=19 And here’s a link to the unrolled thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1689421335242416129.html Oh and they just put out an extended soundtrack with 3 extra tracks. Which is a bit annoying if you bought the original album. I wonder if the extra tracks were cut from the movie and they’ll show up in Beyond. Yvonmukluk fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Aug 11, 2023 |
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Aug 11, 2023 17:46
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#ReleaseTheTheatricalCut
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Aug 11, 2023 19:55
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#ReleaseAllTheCutsConfusedUs posted:Spiders-Man is a pile of spiders who collectively think they are Peter Parker. Thats just The Thousand (spoilers because ick) 
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Aug 11, 2023 20:07
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From what I've seen people say, the digital version is just the second cut they released when they fixed the audio issues. I think most people just saw the movie on opening weekend
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Aug 11, 2023 20:46
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Macaluso posted:From what I've seen people say, the digital version is just the second cut they released when they fixed the audio issues. I think most people just saw the movie on opening weekend The changes in the movie don’t line up to a theoretical second cut. I saw the film opening day with the unfixed audio and it still had Lyla’s selfie in it.
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Aug 11, 2023 21:08
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Pirate Jet posted:The changes in the movie don’t line up to a theoretical second cut. I saw the film opening day with the unfixed audio and it still had Lyla’s selfie in it. Yeah and the digital cut is still not using the left screen of this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKtYK4EVeHc&t=21s Then again all the rips of the movie I saw used the 2nd scene just like the digital one.
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Aug 11, 2023 21:49
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Macaluso posted:From what I've seen people say, the digital version is just the second cut they released when they fixed the audio issues. I think most people just saw the movie on opening weekend It’s a mix. Spot saying “which wouldn’t be good” is in the digital which was the cut I saw in theaters, but Gwen’s extended worrying about Miles when he’s saving the inspector isn’t, while it was in the version I saw. I wish they’d just say what happened so people could stop speculating. I guess they were tinkering till past the last second and some versions shipped “old” and then between the theatrical run and the digital release they chose a few things from each. Edit: and from what I remember those were probably the two differences that made the biggest story difference, and I think they went the right way with both in the digital release.
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Aug 11, 2023 22:46
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It's possible they are doing a Clue thing and having different versions as some sort of hint to multiverse shenanigans but even if that is the case they probably should say something
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Aug 11, 2023 22:52
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I think MIguel's most trusted agents all being outsider-Spiders is like, intentional. Look at the spidermen he surrounds himself with as his most trusted. They're not Peters. He himself is also not a Peter. Ben Reily never got bit by a radioactive spider, he's a clone made from a Peter who got bit by one. I do wonder how much of that is intentional because they like the idea of outsiders vs. outsiders, and how much is because they don't want multiple people named Peter Parker being important/main characters/antagonists in the same movie.
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Aug 11, 2023 23:11
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KittyEmpress posted:I think MIguel's most trusted agents all being outsider-Spiders is like, intentional. Look at the spidermen he surrounds himself with as his most trusted. They're not Peters. He himself is also not a Peter. Ben Reily never got bit by a radioactive spider, he's a clone made from a Peter who got bit by one. Most of Team Gwen’s team aren’t traditional Peter Parkers either. I mean I guess Noir is technically one but otherwise it’s just B. I think it’s for a few reasons. The name Peter Parker still carries a lot of meaning to people and I don’t think most want a detailed look at him falling for Miguel’s thing. But also like you said we don’t need 5 Peters to keep track of and it would just get messy and boring outside of madcap chase scenes. For as confusing as everything could be, if you say “Peter Parker from Spiderverse” it’s immediately clear who you’re talking about and that’s a good thing.
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Aug 11, 2023 23:53
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KittyEmpress posted:I think MIguel's most trusted agents all being outsider-Spiders is like, intentional. Look at the spidermen he surrounds himself with as his most trusted. They're not Peters. He himself is also not a Peter. Ben Reily never got bit by a radioactive spider, he's a clone made from a Peter who got bit by one. Did Ben Reilly lose the 3 people? Fork of Unknown Origins posted:Most of Team Gwen’s team aren’t traditional Peter Parkers either. I mean I guess Noir is technically one but otherwise it’s just B. It's because all Peters are pretty boring
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Aug 12, 2023 02:41
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ImpAtom posted:It's possible they are doing a Clue thing and having different versions as some sort of hint to multiverse shenanigans but even if that is the case they probably should say something None of the changes are really that pronounced. They're all minor visual tweaks and dialogue edits. This feels more like the director or editor continuing to make changes between the theatrical and home release. I like some of the changes too. Removing "Sorry man, I'm going home," during the Miles, Miguel fight is an objective improvement. That line sounds like bad ADR that someone made them add. "Nah, I'ma do my own thing" is a sick mic drop, and adding more dialogue afterward kinda spoils it.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:50
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I think it’s just the director is a crazy person who iterated on a very intense animated movie like it was a feature film so much they burned out a few hundred people and just can’t stop themselves.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:56
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But it sucks to take out the "no no no no no" from Gwen when she's running to get Miles out of rubble.
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Aug 12, 2023 05:02
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Invalid Validation posted:I think it’s just the director is a crazy person who iterated on a very intense animated movie like it was a feature film so much they burned out a few hundred people and just can’t stop themselves. All three of them?
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Aug 12, 2023 05:08
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Sure, look at all the little things they did while it was in the theater, that poo poo is bananas.
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Aug 12, 2023 05:23
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Invalid Validation posted:Sure, look at all the little things they did while it was in the theater, that poo poo is bananas. It reminds me of how after Exorcist II first came out John Boorman was editing indiviual prints of it differently after it was already going out to theaters.
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Aug 12, 2023 06:56
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Neo Rasa posted:It reminds me of how after Exorcist II first came out John Boorman was editing indiviual prints of it differently after it was already going out to theaters.
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Aug 12, 2023 12:24
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Rewatching this now and having a hard time understanding how anyone could miss the implied love triangle between Miles/Gwen/Hobie. Miles stops dead when Gwen tells him she crashes at Hobie's sometimes, "like overnight?" Gwen says Miles is the only friend she's made since her Peter died, Miles says what about Hobie, Gwen says "that's different" Mumbai Spiderman says "does he know about Hobie?", Miles says what do you mean, "he clearly doesn't know about Hobie" This is all before Hobie has even entered the movie lol
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Aug 12, 2023 18:44
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Gwen’s a terrible person because she’s clearly doing it/bringing up Hobie to get a rise out of Miles.
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Aug 12, 2023 18:54
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I guess that makes sense but I kind of interpreted all those things exactly the opposite way. Like Miles is worried that they may be an item but she's just dismissing that. She hasn't gone home for a while at that point so it's not surprising that she's ended up crashing at Hobie's place sometimes while doing spider society stuff, but she doesn't even really feel like they're friends. I think that's why Hobie giving her the bracelet thing is kind of surprising: because it shows that he's showing personal approval of her outside of their relationship in spider society in a way he hasn't done previously. I also don't think she's teasing miles or anything. I think she's just afraid of being in a relationship with him after the stuff she's been through mystes fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 18:55
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Yeah, the joke is Miles is nervous over Gwen liking another guy and then when he actually meets him it turns out no, she likes him so much because he really is just the coolest 
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Aug 12, 2023 18:59
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Yeah, I mean, she's gotta know that her new adopted family wants Miles dead. She probably also feels things for Miles but she juuust got through with a messy separation from her father. She is in mad rebound mode and conflicted with her adoptive family and her wanna be bf. Hobie's a room with no entanglements or expectations she can just chill in. Mumbai spiderman lives such a pure and perfect life I'm not sure he's the least bit aware. Her and Hobie might be spending the night, but it's no relationship, and I'm sure Hobie's chill enough to know where his place in all this is.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:07
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Neo Rasa posted:It reminds me of how after Exorcist II first came out John Boorman was editing indiviual prints of it differently after it was already going out to theaters. Only thing saving Exorcist II would be an apology and a complete redo. Absolute failure of a movie. Fortunately, Exorcist 3 was pretty tight.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:09
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Also, while Hobie's age is unclear, I think it would be pretty inappropriate of him to sleep with Gwen when she's coming out of being rejected by her father, he's acting as her mentor in spider society, and she doesn't have a home to go back to. Despite his punk aesthetic, he seems to have a pretty strong self-imposed moral code considering that he immediately quits when he's asked to do something he thinks is wrong, and given this I genuinely don't think he would be having a relationship with her.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:17
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mystes posted:Also, while Hobie's age is unclear, I think it would be pretty inappropriate of him to sleep with Gwen when she's coming out of being rejected by her father, he's acting as her mentor in spider society, and she doesn't have a home to go back to. Despite his punk aesthetic, he seems to have a pretty strong self-imposed moral code considering that he immediately quits when he's asked to do something he thinks is wrong, and given this I genuinely don't think he would be having a relationship with her. Yes later it becomes more clear that Gwen likely just views Hobie as a coworker/band mate possibly, but from an audience perspective, that's basically a twist that's revealed later in the movie. For the first half of the movie Hobie is very clearly presented as a romantic rival for Miles.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:28
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The_Doctor posted:Gwen’s a terrible person because she’s clearly doing it/bringing up Hobie to get a rise out of Miles. Yeah if I have one nitpick with the movie is that Hobie is a little too passive/accepting, in part because narratively they need him to be the chill mentor to Miles that shows him how to get out of a jam and be a supportive ally in the overall drama after everything goes to poo poo with Spider Society. I get why to some extent and maybe if it was just the once that would've been fine but they do it twice , because they also need Hobie to play sort of a Jiminy Cricket role to Gwen by creating opportunities for the audience to see that she is inwardly conflicted (i.e. Hobie asks Gwen if she told Miles everything, knowing that she probably hasn't, and doesn't press it when she gets shifty). That said, it feels a little incongruent for Hobie to be so against what Miguel is about that he is the ONLY spider-person to not take part in the big chase, yet he still takes proactive steps to make sure Gwen can lead the rescue for Miles in part 2. Gwen takes part in the big chase, clearly trying to delay/catch Miles so that she can convince him to accept the "canon" willingly rather than be detained by Miguel. It isn't until after the big showdown that she is actively opposed to Miguel's vision. I know there's an argument that all of that makes sense because Hobie is just so anti-authority that he immediately saw through Miguel's facade or has gotten to know Gwen so well that he knew she would eventually end up making the right choices, but I don't think that nullifies all the other stuff. Some of the underpinning themes of the movie are clearly guilt and trauma response and self-imposed burdens in an attempt to assert (false) control. In particular, the ramifications of people getting trapped into shaping their entire identity or worldview around traumatic experiences. Miguel had to make his own sacrifices to be Spider-man, tried to buck the canon, and in doing so (as far as he knows) caused the destruction of an entire world. He has completely bought into the circular logic of "I made a sacrifice and I can't stand the idea that it could've gone differently or that it was the result of things beyond my control, so therefore this larger rationale has to be the reason for my sacrifice and now I have to make sure others make the same sacrifice in service of that rationale, no matter how different their circumstances are or what other possibilities might exist". It is the same argument you hear from anyone who paid off their student loans and now opposes student loan debt relief - if they could do it or at least survive it then there must be some intrinsic value to that experience that is worth preserving, no matter how much harm it does to them or others, because otherwise what will they have to hold onto as a rationale for their identity, beliefs, etc. Miles lost both his world's Spider-man and his own uncle, and then refuses to accept losing his father as yet another "sacrifice" that comes with the mantle. He (and Hobie and probably Pavtr) are the only Spider-people to believe that maybe there isn't one way to be Spider-man and that the canon doesn't have to shape their lives or require a tradeoff between having relationships or personal life as themselves and saving the city/world/multiverse as Spider-man. Miles and Pavtr both say the same thing - I can do both (save the world and save my friends/family). Eventually Gwen gets there too, but even that is complicated in her case. Gwen lost her world's Peter Parker, knows that her own father is likely a target of the canon, and on top of that clearly worries enough about the fate that the canon spins out for any Gwen Stacy who gets too close to a Spider-man (at least the Peter Parker ones) that she won't get romantically entangled with Miles. A huge existential mindfuck in of itself. Beyond that, she and Peter B. betray Miles because they have internalized the belief that one person's sacrifice is a small price to pay for the safety and protection of the many, and that if you are a Spider-person who is gifted with great power and great responsibility then that obligates you to make as many sacrifices as it takes no matter what it does to you or your family or your ability to connect with other people. That raises one other nitpick, which is that I wish they would've done more with Jessica Drew and Peter B. Parker, as Spider-people who have (in my opinion) broken the canon by becoming parents. What does Peter B. think about the idea of Spider-man as being defined by sacrifice now that he has a daughter with Spider-powers who will likely become a superhero when she grows up? How does that conversation go when he is trying to explain to Mayday why she has to let someone she cares about die (which might include himself one day) and she gives him the same argument as Miles? Did Jessica Drew tell her husband that by being with her that he might be putting a target on his back, or their child's? Not in terms of risk from some supervillian, but literally marked by fate or destiny to die so that she can save other people. From the way she rubbed her belly during Miguel's speech about the canon I can't help but think her husband is probably a cop. Does Miguel's algorithmic projection of the Spider-verse include predictions about what happens to Spider-parents or Spider-children in terms of making sacrifices? I think Jessica Drew and Peter B. Parker are maybe the most interesting for those reasons (acknowledging that I am biased because I am a parent), and the questions their existence/actions provoke with regards to the bigger ethos and cultural influence of Spider-man. Going to quote a bit of a review of No Way Home to clarify what I mean a little bit: [url posted:https://letterboxd.com/eatdrinkdeath/film/spider-man-no-way-home/[/url]] Obviously they've moved away from the vision of Spider-man as an eternal mopey sad-sack, can't get ahead loser but the core bits about sacrifice, responsibility, fear, etc are still all over the modern stories and arcs. Introducing Miles Morales and Gwen Stacy is clearly meant to complicate the idea of who wears the mask and who has what it takes to be Spider-man and all that. But what does a Spider-man not defined by sacrifice look like? I expect they will only answer that partially in Part 2 but even so that's a huge swing for a kid's movie to take and I admire the effort despite any nitpicks (which are super minor and honestly will not stop me from watching this movie 100 times). Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 20:53
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Where does the "protection" of canon events stop in favor of living their spider-lives? Does every spider-person need to go through One More Day? Is there a Superior Spider-Ham? Clearly not all of them need to have the clones since there weren't millions of Ben 90's posing all over the Spider-tower.
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Aug 12, 2023 21:20
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You can't prove there aren't an infinite number of suffering Ben Reillys just off frame at all points in the movie
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Aug 12, 2023 21:23
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Gaius Marius posted:You can't prove there aren't an infinite number of suffering Ben Reillys just off frame at all points in the movie Another cut variation? Insane directors, get on it. Just everything made of Ben Reilly in every scene - Buildings, cars, those architecturally unsound pillars that all the spider-folk walked around on because gravity is a joke... All interlocked Bens.
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Aug 12, 2023 21:36
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The_Doctor posted:Gwen’s a terrible person because she’s clearly doing it/bringing up Hobie to get a rise out of Miles. This feels like an unfair standard to hold a teenage girl to when plenty of the adults in this thread were apparently oblivious to the romantic conflict setup.
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Aug 13, 2023 07:44
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mystes posted:I guess that makes sense but I kind of interpreted all those things exactly the opposite way. Like Miles is worried that they may be an item but she's just dismissing that. She hasn't gone home for a while at that point so it's not surprising that she's ended up crashing at Hobie's place sometimes while doing spider society stuff, but she doesn't even really feel like they're friends. I think once we meet Hobie it becomes clear how he may be the type of dude where you could crash on his couch but the word “friends” doesn’t necessarily feel right.
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Aug 13, 2023 08:01
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Hobie's a comrade.
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Aug 13, 2023 10:29
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anatomi posted:Hobie's a comrade. Yeah Hobie letting Gwen crash on his couch is just him practicing multiversal mutual aid.
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Aug 13, 2023 11:42
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Skippy McPants posted:This feels like an unfair standard to hold a teenage girl to when plenty of the adults in this thread were apparently oblivious to the romantic conflict setup. You can disagree about how the audience is supposed to understand this and argue that we are supposed to believe there is a love triangle initially, but saying that arguing that there's a distinction between these things is being "oblivious to the romantic conflict setup" is disingenuous at best and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how stories work at worst; it's like failing to understand that there can be a difference between what a character is saying in a story and what the author is saying. mystes fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 13:08
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Gwen did nothing wrong 
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Aug 13, 2023 14:22
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Gwen did so much wrong and it was great. If she just told Miles about her job, the two of them could have beaten the stuffing out of no spots Spot. Roll credits. But she's spiderman so doing a bad job of balancing her professional and personal life is kind of her thing.
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Aug 13, 2023 14:26
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Kinda lol the Spot tries to guilt trip Miles when he's very obviously loving loving being a supervillain, though I suppose that's a very supervillain thing to do. Seems pretty clear if he actually wanted help, all he had to do was ask Spider-man who'd move heaven and earth to get him whatever help he needs to get back to normal. Actually fun to have a villain who's also clumsily figuring out his superpowers from a lab accident and is also a talkative dork, who mixes in genuine psychological warfare with the quips.
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Aug 13, 2023 14:31
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The Spot is probably the best villian Marvel Movies has had in years.
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