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Wait nuking people who "might" be working with the Word of Blake is great but nuking a warship isn't?
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Aug 12, 2023 03:49
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Nuking poo poo in space is fine. It's not like someone was stupid enough to bring civilian infrastructure along with their invasion fleet, right? Right? 
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Aug 12, 2023 03:49
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BattleMaster posted:Wait nuking people who "might" be working with the Word of Blake is great but nuking a warship isn't? It's a warship in the same way that Geneva is a bunker, I guess.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:51
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Regulans nuking everyone they thought might be voluntarily working for the Word of Blake (or the slave-taking Circinus Federation who they also hated) is pretty justifiable. Especially since they were a real underdog and have even fewer forces at their disposal than the Taurians. The Regulan Feifs are not a credible threat to the rest of the League in any era, they're an underdog. They're just an underdog with a lot of uranium. I mean there's some pretty heartwrenching bits in Jihad: Final Reckoning (I think) where civilian ships and traffic control plead with the Regulans not to nuke their entire planet just because the Master + co might have fled there after Gibson. The Regulans don't listen.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:52
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Strobe posted:It's a warship in the same way that Geneva is a bunker, I guess. I didn't realize that Geneva moved to the front lines of a conflict to provide logistical support to combatants. Blowing up supply transports has been an accepted part of warfare since logistics existed as a concept. You might have a conniption if you look up how many supply ships were sunk in World War II. The Clanners also bring laborers to handle cargo and technicians to repair their equipment on board dropships. Does that mean dropships are off limits because those aren't warriors? Like no, don't nuke a Clan city. But they regularly bring people who are technically civilians to front line combat zones where they are used as military personnel. Doesn't mean you can't attack their camps, or trucks, or logistical spacecraft. BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 03:55
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The Regulan Fiefs are the chihuahua of BattleTech. Small, scrappy, disadvantaged, mean as poo poo, and I don't feel bad when they lose.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:56
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BattleMaster posted:I didn't realize that Geneva moved to the front lines of a conflict to provide logistical support to combatants. Blowing up supply transports has been an accepted part of warfare since logistics existed as a concept. You might have a conniption if you look up how many supply ships were sunk in World War II. I don't think invoking WW2's wartime practices is the supporting point you think it is, but I also do not really want to try to convince someone that nuking a million civilians is bad regardless of where it is or the circumstances that led to them being where they are. EDIT: like semi-in-character joking aside there is absolutely nothing about the Regulan use of nukes that's even kind of okay, it is inarguably some Bad poo poo and they are not the good guys no matter how underdog they may be or how justified their outrage may have been. Play them all you want I'm not going to judge that but at least recognize it's not a good guy trait. Strobe fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 03:59
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quote:The Leper Colony observed the two [Regulan] Mammoth DropShips throwing out quantities of what initially appeared to be chaff of some kind, but which was later observed to be clusters of thermonuclear weapons; the two DropShips apparently launched approximately 15 nuclear weapons each per minute for some two hours. Forces on Paradise - described as using a significant number of cutting-edge aerospace fighters and DropShips - were able to intercept several dozen nuclear missiles en route to the planet, but the dozens intercepted were only a small part of the thousands of missiles observed to have been launched.[15] They dropped 3600 cobalt salted megaton-range nukes on Paradise because it had Blakists on it who'd fled from Gibson. The really funny part is they didn't even get the guy they were after
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Aug 12, 2023 03:59
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Strobe posted:I don't think invoking WW2's wartime practices is the supporting point you think it is, but I also do not really want to try to convince someone that nuking a million civilians is bad regardless of where it is or the circumstances that led to them being where they are. I don't think Regulans are any good but lol at "nuking people who might be working with Word of Blake" is justified but attacking a front line logistics center is bad. You weren't saying that but PTN did.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:05
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That was Arquinsiel's take, not Strobe's
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Aug 12, 2023 04:06
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:That was Arquinsiel's take, not Strobe's I was responding to PTN's take specifically, I was never accusing Strobe of that
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Aug 12, 2023 04:07
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I'm not sure if that's what PTN really meant by not nuking the Foxes either
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Aug 12, 2023 04:11
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:I'm not sure if that's what PTN really meant by not nuking the Foxes either Cripes it was only last page but here it is quote:The Regulans nuking everyone they thought might be voluntarily working for the Word of Blake (or the slave-taking Circinus Federation who they also hated) is pretty justifiable. Especially since they were a real underdog and have even fewer forces at their disposal than the Taurians. The Regulan Feifs are not a credible threat to the rest of the League in any era, they're an underdog. They're just an underdog with a lot of uranium. quote:Oh shoot, I missed that one.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:12
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Like I said: Justifiable, not justified. They Regulans were screaming "don't climb in bed with the Word of Blake" into the void for 12 years before the Jihad started. Kirc Cameron-Jones was assassinated by the Wobbies in September 3077. Titus Cameron-Jones's pregnant wife was also murdered by the Word of Blake in October 3077. They were in a "do our families survive our mercy?" situation. It's why I grimace whenever the Regulans are described as unreasonable. They made very reasonable choices. Unenviable ones, terrible ones, but the Word of Blake opened the Jihad with nukes and the Regulans had every reason to expect a planet would be getting nuked one way or the other and that one has Wobbies on it so welp. Deploying nukes is terrible to consider, even in a fictional setting. The Regulans (and Taurians) are both too quick to employ them. Strobe posted:The Regulan Fiefs are the chihuahua of BattleTech. Small, scrappy, disadvantaged, mean as poo poo, and I don't feel bad when they lose. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 04:18
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I think I'm here to defend nukes more than anything. They're nice and I like their anti-nihilist message of "if everyone here is going to muddy the waters with their meddling, then They and the Waters and Here should all just disappear". Bomus points for the "And never come back" postscript signed in cobalt.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:25
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I just want Clan Ice Hellion back. 
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Aug 12, 2023 04:34
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I just want Clan Ice Hellion back. Could you explain why? I'm an Inner Sphere and mercenary fan, and the closest thing to the Clans I like is Clan Snord, so I may just be underinformed about their particulars, but why the Ice Hellions?
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Aug 12, 2023 04:38
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As not a Ice Hellions fan their paint schemes seem pretty cool
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Aug 12, 2023 04:46
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Most of the reason to pick any faction is because you like their paint schemes and 'mechs and vehicles, and after a lot of people fell in love Catalyst went on a big ol' rampage of murdering tons of Clans. I guess there were too many, I kind of imagine FASA inflated the number of Clans to add to the mystery, like ooh these are the ones invading but there's a whole massive world of Kerensky's descendants out there without thinking that maybe that would be too many when they went back to flesh them out. But kind of a dick move
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Aug 12, 2023 04:47
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:That was Arquinsiel's take, not Strobe's In retrospect tricking the clanners into bidding away warships by not committing fighters to defence and then just sneakily nuking their jump capacity would have been the best way to halt the invasion in mid 3050. Can't moan about honour if your HPG is a rapidly expanding cloud, after all.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:55
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PoptartsNinja posted:If you want a scrappy underdog faction, may I suggest the Principality of Regulus / Regulan Feifs? PoptartsNinja posted:They actually don't, though. That's the Taurians. They didn't nuke the Sea Foxes when their entire economy was under blockade, the Sea Foxes hadn't earned that level of response. Sold. Regulans it is. I even own Ideal War and read it probably 25+ years ago but hosed if I can remember anything about it. I definitely was reading Battletech novels in middle school but that was so long ago I barely remember them. I actually just rummaged around the basement and found Ideal War (and Impetus of War, Flashpoint, and the first two Twilight of the Clans books). Gonna have to re-read it! EDIT: I like the brown-y orange or orange-y brown color Regluans use so that's a plus.
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Aug 12, 2023 05:46
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Aug 12, 2023 05:48
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General Battuta posted:They dropped 3600 cobalt salted megaton-range nukes on Paradise because it had Blakists on it who'd fled from Gibson. The really funny part is they didn't even get the guy they were after Ok the regulans seem pretty great
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Aug 12, 2023 13:29
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As a fictional element in the setting, absolutely. As a moral actor no, that’s bad!
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Aug 12, 2023 13:48
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I somehow judge the Regulans less for using 3600 Tsar Bombas than for the insane level of production and support you'd need to generate that much plutonium to make them
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Aug 12, 2023 14:21
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What's nuts is I didn't remember the WoB like at all, for some reason or another I thought they were cooked up for the Clix game, but nope, they were there long before that. Again, hazy knowledge! Think I'll start re-reading Ideal War today, I haven't really sat down to read a book in a while
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Aug 12, 2023 16:01
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A lot of people just quietly memory hole that Focht's plan to deal with Demona Aziz in 3052 directly leads to the Jihad.
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Aug 12, 2023 16:51
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They took over Terra from the single company (!) and two AeroSpace fighters that the ComGuards defending it in like, ten minutes in 3055-ish. Focht just kinda shrugged and said "That's probably fine." General Battuta posted:As a fictional element in the setting, absolutely. As a moral actor no, that’s bad! Yeah, Regulus has absolutely done wrong. It's just that, as far as the setting goes, they're not that bad? At least the enemies they're trying to defend themselves against are usually real. Lester Cameron-Jones still really hates the Word of Blake but he doesn't come across as an unreasonable ruler when compared to the rest of the Inner Sphere. And since it doesn't look like he's had children that means he's likely going to be succeeded by Gerald Cameron-Jones' granddaughter, who's a virtual unknown and is hopefully a bit more divorced from the main family's tendency to go straight from negotiations to nuclear threats with no middle steps taken in between. It's been fun seeing a lot of the traditional "bad part of [successor state]" factions (like the Sarna March) get mellowed out while traditional "good part of [successor state]" (like the Draconis March) get to play the internal-antagonist foils for a bit. Let Oriente be the League's internal antagonist for a bit. That'd spice things up a little. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 17:24
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PoptartsNinja posted:They took over Terra from the single company (!) and two AeroSpace fighters that the ComGuards defending it in like, ten minutes in 3055-ish.  'd Myndo Waterly and Aziz gets all huffy he just lets her go. Doesn't even bother trying to detain her or anything. Probably had a solid three quarters of his flechette block left in the gun and all.
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Aug 12, 2023 17:39
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A Lyran general screwing up? Really?
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Aug 12, 2023 17:42
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He was probably just trying to remember her name. IIRC Demona Aziz was (accidentally?) referred to by at least one and possible two other similar names in the 3050s. Demona Aziz was just the name that wound up sticking. I know her last name was Aliz for a bit (for like: one chapter in the Blood of Kerensky trilogy maybe? Probably either because the Stackpole got her confused with Pedrigor or before they'd fully decided the First Circuit didn't inherit their positions?); and I could be misremembering but I swear she was also 'Desdemona' for a little while.
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Aug 12, 2023 18:12
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Hmm…I wonder whether this Demona lady is gonna cause any trouble
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Aug 12, 2023 18:17
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She died in 3058 so she kinda didn't. I mean, she definitely tried, mind you. She just ran afoul of the Death Commandos.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:32
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Traveller posted:A Lyran general screwing up? Really? yeah I always wondered what it was about Teddy K's gunshot that magically made Freddy Steiner better at generalling actual answer is they literally made him an Odin analogue (traded an eye for wisdom)
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Aug 12, 2023 19:49
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He was always good at generalling, he was just also bad at politics. Him causing the Jihad by failing to order a bullet into the back of Aziz's head shows that the whole Odin idea was something he bought into himself and put far too much stock in. He was still bad at politics. He just ignored the "wisdom" he earned and decided to go back into politics.PoptartsNinja posted:He was probably just trying to remember her name.
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Aug 12, 2023 22:31
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I now want to play some MechWarrior game with a character named Michigan Noketsuna, the son of a Taurian woman and a Draconis man Literally that "Howdy, my name is Rawhide Kobayashi" meme
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Aug 12, 2023 22:43
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BattleTech has a lot of mixed-culture names like that and it's kind of weirdly charming.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:35
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Arquinsiel posted:BattleTech has a lot of mixed-culture names like that and it's kind of weirdly charming. It's like Alex Kamal in The Expanse series. A guy from Mars with South Asian heritage and thick as hell Texan accent.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:51
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Arquinsiel posted:If you've read the recent-ish ebooks I'm talking original paper copies.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:54
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Arquinsiel posted:He was always good at generalling, he was just also bad at politics. Him causing the Jihad by failing to order a bullet into the back of Aziz's head shows that the whole Odin idea was something he bought into himself and put far too much stock in. He was still bad at politics. He just ignored the "wisdom" he earned and decided to go back into politics. Also he didn't know where his army got its guns from so he thought Terra was just a symbol.
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Aug 13, 2023 01:46
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