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ohhyeah posted:Does anyone have recommendations for good documentaries, books, etc. about the history of traditional games? Could be miniatures, tcgs, rpgs, anything. Any old timey clips out there of HG Wells going around with his toy soldiers? Jon Peterson's Playing at the World gets into the deep history and theory of the medium. Warning: you may learn more about Kriegsspiel than you ever wanted to know.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:04
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Nessus posted:Even rockabilly? Probably. He was big into pipe organ music and calliope music. Dude had some weird rear end hobbies, beside the whole starting a philosophy/religion to annoy the squares.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:09
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LaVey was in his mid-20s by the time rockabilly was widely-known. It's like that scene where Don Draper tries to listen to Revolver and pulls the headphones off in disgust. It's like kids these days trying to get me into The Dojo Cats or whatever they're called.
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Aug 11, 2023 16:50
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BattleMaster posted:Oh yeah, it's gotten a lot better but it's still kind of surprising to me given how this place has been. That one guy is kind of a remnant of how things used to be consistently. I think a lot of it started with a pretty reasonable backlash in grognards.txt against people springing their fetishes on non-consenting players in D&D games, but as with all things in g.txt it grew from "don't include me in your fetishes without consent" to "sex has no place in RPGs" to a more general sex negativity as g.txt stared far too long into the abyss and were warped by it. Halloween Jack posted:It's like kids these days trying to get me into The Dojo Cats or whatever they're called. Doja Cat is a funny example here, since she's very much a product of Posting Culture herself, just formed by spending too much time on Gaia Online or something instead of SA. Her origins are not that far from our own. Her music's also pretty good! OtspIII fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 11, 2023 |
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Aug 11, 2023 18:03
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Lemniscate Blue posted:You know it's funny, I was looking at that collection of Foglio MTG cards and it struck me that there is something a little unsettling about the art, particularly when the subject is monstrous in some way. And I can see how, combined with their portrayal of sexuality, that might make someone feel a little creeped out. Erol Otus did the art for Alma Mater which got it put behind the tables at Gencon due to its NSFW level. Humbug Scoolbus fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 11, 2023 |
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Aug 11, 2023 18:06
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Erol Otus did the art for Alma Matar which got it put behind the tables at Gencon due to its NSFW level. The Alma Mater in question: http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/06/retrospective-alma-mater.html (link is sfw)
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Aug 11, 2023 18:15
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Cessna posted:The best comic in Dragon in those days was Wormy, by a vast margin. Completely agree. Archived here for anyone who misses it or is unfamiliar. I know Dave Trampier was unwillingly rediscovered in the early 00s working as a cab driver in Illinois, but did anybody ever figure out what made him flee the RPG scene in the first place? It was kind of a big mystery for a while.
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Aug 11, 2023 18:16
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Halloween Jack posted:Jon Peterson's Playing at the World gets into the deep history and theory of the medium. Warning: you may learn more about Kriegsspiel than you ever wanted to know. Woof this one must be out of print because it starts at $259 used on Amazon. I’ll start with his blog though thanks!
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Aug 11, 2023 19:40
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Lemniscate Blue posted:did anybody ever figure out what made him flee the RPG scene in the first place? Nothing definitive, but I had always heard that he had a conflict with TSR's management of some kind.
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Aug 11, 2023 19:41
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Completely agree. Archived here for anyone who misses it or is unfamiliar. It's a shame he died so soon after realizing how many people still loved his work.
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Aug 11, 2023 20:02
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Completely agree. Archived here for anyone who misses it or is unfamiliar. E: I clicked "allow" by accident and now I'm getting pop ups about how my computer's in danger and I need to renew my virus software, which I'm assuming is just links to malware, so be aware if you click that link. Foolster41 fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 11, 2023 |
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Aug 11, 2023 20:43
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It's the real McCoy for me, though I can't get any images to load after the first ten or so.
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Aug 11, 2023 21:08
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El Fideo posted:It's the real McCoy for me, though I can't get any images to load after the first ten or so. Well, crud. Yeah, I get no warning but the later images are broken. Link rot, I guess. Whatcha gonna do?
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Aug 11, 2023 22:23
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Foolster41 posted:I think the link has been changed, It shows the list of comics for a second and then redirects to spam. IDK if there's a better place to find it. El Fideo posted:It's the real McCoy for me, though I can't get any images to load after the first ten or so. I'll take this down if a mod thinks it's too  y, but I wrote a quick-and-dirty scraperbot to punch through Angelfire's myriad crap and yanked the whole thing down ex machina. Here's as complete an archive as I could get.The entries from Dragon #36 and everything past Dragon #91 have been lost to bit rot, though.
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Aug 11, 2023 22:25
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The guys behind a kickstarted board game called Castle Assault may be the guys who lifted $300k in magic cards from Gen Con. https://nypost.com/2023/08/10/nycs-thomas-dunbar-and-andrew-pearson-giaume-sought-in-gaming-card-theft/ https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/154674/castle-assault Bro was even wearing a Castle Assault t-shirt during the heist lol
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Aug 11, 2023 23:05
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ohhyeah posted:Woof this one must be out of print because it starts at $259 used on Amazon. I’ll start with his blog though thanks! It's definitely out of print, but I read it on a Kindle Paperwhite and was riveted. I'd recommend it as an ebook unless/until he does a new printing/edition at a reasonable price.
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Aug 11, 2023 23:28
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dwarf74 posted:Bro was even wearing a Castle Assault t-shirt during the heist lol The perfect crime.
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Aug 11, 2023 23:38
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ohhyeah posted:Woof this one must be out of print because it starts at $259 used on Amazon. I’ll start with his blog though thanks! Playing at the World had an MSRP of $50, so don't pay that. Some of his later works that are exclusively about rpgs are published by MIT press, so the price is more reasonable. https://mitpress.mit.edu/author/jon-peterson-24654/
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Aug 12, 2023 03:22
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The Elusive Shift is masterful and in some ways depressing (did you know that all the arguments people are having about RPGs now were pretty much done and done and redone in zines in the 70s?), The Game Wizards is pretty interesting in dispelling a lot of myths about the Gygax era at TSR (he was an rear end in a top hat and everything people say that Lorraine Williams did was done by him as well), but Playing at the World just has an immense sense of scope that they don't.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:01
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Cassius Belli posted:I'll take this down if a mod thinks it's too I have the dragon magazine CD collection, I could extract them all I guess into a pdf of someone tells me what issues they were in. Will take a while though.
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Aug 12, 2023 05:52
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dwarf74 posted:The guys behind a kickstarted board game called Castle Assault may be the guys who lifted $300k in magic cards from Gen Con. LOL, how the gently caress can someone, much less two people, be this stupid?
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Aug 12, 2023 08:18
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Anonymous Zebra posted:LOL, how the gently caress can someone, much less two people, be this stupid? To paraphrase a wrestleman, one guy to not think of a good plan and one guy to think of a not good plan.
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Aug 12, 2023 11:45
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Kestral posted:It's less side-eye and more "Holy poo poo we're going there, are we?" It's not illustrated though.
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Aug 12, 2023 12:02
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ohhyeah posted:Does anyone have recommendations for good documentaries, books, etc. about the history of traditional games? Could be miniatures, tcgs, rpgs, anything. Any old timey clips out there of HG Wells going around with his toy soldiers? I watched this documentary about the art of early D&D a while back and found it interesting. Eye of the Beholder: The Art of Dungeons & Dragons https://imdb.com/title/tt8888186/
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Aug 12, 2023 12:09
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Lemniscate Blue posted:You know it's funny, I was looking at that collection of Foglio MTG cards and it struck me that there is something a little unsettling about the art, particularly when the subject is monstrous in some way. And I can see how, combined with their portrayal of sexuality, that might make someone feel a little creeped out.
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Aug 12, 2023 12:13
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https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/54781/games-workshop-slims-down-channel-battletech-bulks-up-d-d-declines Gonna repost this since it got lost in the shuffle of the AI debate but: Games Workshop had one of their very successful game lines get dethroned by Battletech in one of the most impressive comebacks in the miniature gaming world. Battletech hadn't been popular for a good long while. It was hobbled by legal issues, licensing fuckups, and uh, the minis looked like total dogshit. The soft reboot with the 2019 set has been a godsend for the game. The minis aren't even that good, with lots of warping, brutal mold lines that are much harder to remove than ones from say GW products. DESPITE quality control and supply issues, The demand has been insane, and the last kickstarter tripled (and change) the take from the previous kickstarter and I think more than doubled the amount of backers. And people at retail are buying it at such numbers GW is stumbling a bit. Battletech is literally more popular than its ever been and it's pretty exciting whenever GW actually faces real competition because they tend to try harder. It'll be interesting to see if trends continue. Last time 40k got dethroned the CEO was shown the door. Exciting times for the minis business....
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Aug 12, 2023 16:16
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Leperflesh posted:Since maybe folks aren't familiar, here's a search on scryfall that gives you every Phil Foglio magic card: You know I originally disagreed with this callout post largely because I wasn't talking about Foglio at all, but on viewing the list I was right in the first place! The only difference is that he can absolutely draw a handsome fellow from time to time. But look at this list! He can draw male characters as sexy dudes, battlin' thugs, fat goblins, pink elephant monsters, horrific mutants, bees, whatever. The female characters? All babes, like the closest you see to a monster woman is the cyclops and boy does he ever lean in on the bejeweled lingerie in that case. This is exactly the point I was making, he's just another expression of the Oglaf gender dimorphism thing. Would it kill him to draw a woman character as a lumpy wizard or muscled goon or whatever? I posit that it might.
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Aug 12, 2023 16:55
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Angrymog posted:I have the dragon magazine CD collection, I could extract them all I guess into a pdf of someone tells me what issues they were in. Will take a while though. Depending on your exact intended end-product, it'd probably be easiest to start with the archive I made, and then fill in the blanks from the following: * #36 (Apr '80) * #92-#128 (Dec '84 through Dec '87) * #130-132 (Feb-Apr '88) Otherwise, the original linked index page does have issue numbers and dates (but nobody's got page numbers, sorry).
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Aug 12, 2023 17:10
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Not sure if it was posted earlier, but Dimension20 has resumed production after confirming with SAG that their contract wasn't struck. https://twitter.com/samreich/status/1688955479765155840
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Aug 12, 2023 17:28
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theironjef posted:You know I originally disagreed with this callout post largely because I wasn't talking about Foglio at all, but on viewing the list I was right in the first place! The only difference is that he can absolutely draw a handsome fellow from time to time. But look at this list! He can draw male characters as sexy dudes, battlin' thugs, fat goblins, pink elephant monsters, horrific mutants, bees, whatever. The female characters? All babes, like the closest you see to a monster woman is the cyclops and boy does he ever lean in on the bejeweled lingerie in that case. This is exactly the point I was making, he's just another expression of the Oglaf gender dimorphism thing. Would it kill him to draw a woman character as a lumpy wizard or muscled goon or whatever? I posit that it might. I don't think you are right there. Definitely if you tell him to draw a card centering a female character with limited art direction he is probably going to make them a babe unless there is a good reason not to. How much of this is him, and how much is his knowing the audience and what sells is an open question. Also if you ask for a comic character he will default to male. But I wouldn't exactly describe the women of prosperity and Psychic Network as babes even if they are curvy; the scene indicates that they shouldn't be babes so they aren't. And you were looking at the cyclops in Unlikely Alliance rather than the monster woman with offset eyes back and to the left. And there are also a few androgenous cases in there who may be female. So yeah, I don't actually think would kill him. He would, after all, rather write Buck Godot than Girl Genius - but the nerds pay him to draw hot babes and he likes drawing hot babes. I don't see this as too out of line with mainstream art direction or even Pixar being notably lacking in variety of female faces.
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Aug 12, 2023 18:34
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neonchameleon posted:I don't think you are right there. Definitely if you tell him to draw a card centering a female character with limited art direction he is probably going to make them a babe unless there is a good reason not to. How much of this is him, and how much is his knowing the audience and what sells is an open question. Also if you ask for a comic character he will default to male. But I wouldn't exactly describe the women of prosperity and Psychic Network as babes even if they are curvy; the scene indicates that they shouldn't be babes so they aren't. And you were looking at the cyclops in Unlikely Alliance rather than the monster woman with offset eyes back and to the left. And there are also a few androgenous cases in there who may be female. "Some of the androgynous ones might be female" is a pretty piss poor defense, and the Psychic Network lady on the top left is doing a back arch style Playboy pose. I mean, I don't even care that much about Foglio, Girl Genius sucks because it's been spinning wheels for decades, not because it's too cheesecake, but the notion that this guy draws women with anything resembling the same toolkit and respect he has for men is nuts. His default woman pose is "aim those titties skyward." Also I don't know why Pixar is brought up (honestly I assume you mean Disney, since the "faces are all the same" thing is usually levied at Elsa and Rapunzel, who are Disney characters), but sure, throw them on the pile. All I've ever really tried to say here is that it's a weird thing we see repeated that these guys are great artists with sex positive feminist leanings, and their output is near-always babes with little or no variation beyond hair color. theironjef fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 18:49
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Capfalcon posted:Not sure if it was posted earlier, but Dimension20 has resumed production after confirming with SAG that their contract wasn't struck. The first episode of Mentopolis was stunning too!
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Aug 12, 2023 18:52
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/54781/games-workshop-slims-down-channel-battletech-bulks-up-d-d-declines ICv2 isn't a great source of information for that sort of thing. They are working with an extremely limited set of information, mostly whatever stores feel like returning their surveys. So they don't take into account GW direct or web sales, which ain't nothing. Also LOL at 'Catalyst has done a great job of keeping poo poo in stock'. I don't think I have seen anything similar in terms of 'buy it now because who knows when we'll get more stock...' since X-Wing 1.0. People not being able to find more mechs has been amazing at revealing the wonders of printing your own stls to a lot of gamers, so there is that.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:04
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OtspIII posted:I think a lot of it started with a pretty reasonable backlash in grognards.txt against people springing their fetishes on non-consenting players in D&D games, but as with all things in g.txt it grew from "don't include me in your fetishes without consent" to "sex has no place in RPGs" to a more general sex negativity as g.txt stared far too long into the abyss and were warped by it. I wouldn't blame grognards.txt on this or a broader "sex negativity" here. There's way more factors at play, I think. TG spaces have a long and notorious reputation for integrating sexual content or a writer's personal fetishes into games they design, or games they run, or not respecting boundaries in game sessions, LARPs, etc. We had a whole blow up here over one of the TG mods not respecting that, what, six months ago? A lot of nerd spaces and nerdy hobbies deal with that. It's not exclusive, and the further back the more obvious it was. Fantasy book covers, video games, anime, whatever. The Foglios are horny weirdo actual-boomers (correction: actually I guess Kaja is a Gen Xer), and I get looking at them and wondering if they are like a lot of other horny actual-boomers operating in nerd spaces from that generation. They apparently aren't, which is fine and all. They're just cringe, horny old people, like we'll all hopefully be at worst (or maybe already are.)
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Aug 12, 2023 19:57
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theironjef posted:"Some of the androgynous ones might be female" is a pretty piss poor defense, and the Psychic Network lady on the top left is doing a back arch style Playboy pose. I mean, I don't even care that much about Foglio, Girl Genius sucks because it's been spinning wheels for decades, not because it's too cheesecake, but the notion that this guy draws women with anything resembling the same toolkit and respect he has for men is nuts. His default woman pose is "aim those titties skyward." Also I don't know why Pixar is brought up (honestly I assume you mean Disney, since the "faces are all the same" thing is usually levied at Elsa and Rapunzel, who are Disney characters), but sure, throw them on the pile. All I've ever really tried to say here is that it's a weird thing we see repeated that these guys are great artists with sex positive feminist leanings, and their output is near-always babes with little or no variation beyond hair color. So you're moving the goalposts from "Would it kill him to draw a woman character as a lumpy wizard or muscled goon or whatever? I posit that it might." to, based on only the artwork you claimed to have looked at, "he has a default woman pose and it's cheesecake" (except for all the women who don't fit that pose). Which, yes, now you've climbed most of the way down is probably fair. Oh, and by androgenous I mean this; I think the one on the right is female but am not 100% certain and this, again on the right, but there isn't much detail there.
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Aug 12, 2023 20:02
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I don't think I'm moving goalposts since I retained my assertion that he almost universally draws only babes and cheesecake poses for women. One monster that is still drawn sexy and a few folks that are wearing robes aren't the same as what he's willing to draw of male figures. I think getting drawn into an argument about individual pieces would lead to goalpost moving because each one is its own subjective argument. Easier to say "Foglio will never draw a female version of Goblin King" and to me, feminism includes fat women, not just sexy ones and ones that are probably sexy but they're wearing enough wizard robes for argumentative plausible deniability.
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Aug 12, 2023 20:33
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A bit late to the party, but IMHO Phil Foglio is a great example of someone who can write and draw about sex without being a pervoid. I read every issue of XXXenophile back in the day; it was funny and light hearted and not at all yucky. XXXenophile the game was a terrible game, but the cards were hilarious.
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Aug 12, 2023 20:45
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Honestly full agree. I have nothing against Foglio or cheesecake art. I was just responding to "he doesn't only draw cheesecake women! Look at his entire MTG output of women, it's only 95% cheesecake!"
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Aug 12, 2023 20:57
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FishFood posted:I'll admit I'm a little wary of the kind of horny sex-positivity the Foglios seem to embody. There's a recurring pattern of people (usually men) with that kind of vibe later being revealed to not have been that harmless after all, so my alarm bells start to go off a little when I encounter it. In a vacuum, horny nerd media is fine and dandy, but lots of real pieces of poo poo use sex-positivity as a cover or excuse for their abuse. It sounds like the Foglios are good eggs, but I don't think people are necessarily being crazy or prudish if they get a little skeeved out by boobwizard drawings. whydirt posted:I do think bad-faith actors often use “sex-positivity” as a shield to deflect attacks on their lovely behavior, so I can understand some healthy skepticism This is my essential feel too; while I like Fogilo style, I can see why folks have the wariness, having experienced similar elsewhere.
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Aug 12, 2023 21:25
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theironjef posted:Honestly full agree. I have nothing against Foglio or cheesecake art. I was just responding to "he doesn't only draw cheesecake women! Look at his entire MTG output of women, it's only 95% cheesecake!" I wouldn't consider him an Anime artist, but when you put it like that...
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