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Dramicus posted:Well doom had demons, of which there are several different "species" that all look drastically different and then they slapped some cybernetic stuff on the demons. I do agree that Doom's demons are more memorable overall, but Quake 2 does have some oddball stuff, like the little flyers, fishes, those weird robots with the energy screens, the doggos with the grapple drain. I don't think you're giving it enough credit, but then again, the fact you don't remember those maybe still speaks to something. but 100% agree the hitscan poo poo sucks. I think both Dusk and Amid Evil don't have any hitscanners and they own for it. BattleMaster posted:I don't agree that the game is TOO samey but I kind of wish they leaned more into the body horror, you know? But that sort of stuff is almost why I want to like Quake 2/4 - even though I'm not really a fan of body horror, the Strogg feel like they have more potential with their weird "mash up humans with their machines to create horrible creations" aesthetic then Q1's kind of complete lack of focus? Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 03:51
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Oxyclean posted:Doom has 3 zombie guys, 2 snarly demons, 2 floating orbs, a floating head, 2 goat dudes, 2 robo spiders... I'm quite literally playing through Q2 right now. The dogs show up in the first couple levels and then you don't see them again for almost the entire game until the last couple levels where there are like 4 that show up randomly. The energy robots are decent though. I like them and they are underused. I think the game would have benefited from having a couple of them show up sparsely early and then more frequently as the game goes on. A bit like the big armored guys, except they start to use them too liberally at the end and they end up being railgun/rocket sinks.The use of the little flying blade robots that shoot lasers and do melee was decent overall. I'd say the biggest problem with the Q2 enemies is that a lot of them have the same general silhouette. The MG hand guy, the sword jumper guy and the Grenade/MG guy all look roughly similar. The railgun arm guy is decent because you can learn to consistently dodge the rail shot. All of them are a bit too bullet spongy. I loved Amid Evil and think it holds up very well next to Q1. I got through half of Dusk before losing interest. I'll give it another shot once I finish doing all of Q2's expansions.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:00
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Oxyclean posted:but 100% agree the hitscan poo poo sucks. I think both Dusk and Amid Evil don't have any hitscanners and they own for it. I think hit scanners do work when they're not the only, or even just main enemy, but just part of the monster mix. Doom usually used them well. One thing that I think far to many games don't have is monster in fighting. Hard to think of a game that wasn't improved with enemy in fighting included.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:04
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I know I'm dickriding Q1, but I think the use of hitscanners in that was pretty good, like the shotgunners even though they are hitscan you can still dodge them if you learn the rhythm because they lag behind the player moving at full tilt and will miss.dr_rat posted:One thing that I think far to many games don't have is monster in fighting. Hard to think of a game that wasn't improved with enemy in fighting included. Quake 2 does infighting real well. I've seen it happen super often in my current playthrough.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:06
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Oxyclean posted:I do agree that Doom's demons are more memorable overall, but Quake 2 does have some oddball stuff, like the little flyers, fishes, those weird robots with the energy screens, the doggos with the grapple drain. I don't think you're giving it enough credit, but then again, the fact you don't remember those maybe still speaks to something.   
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 04:08
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Notice how almost every enemy in Q1 and Doom have different silhouettes. I remember a valve dev commentary for I think it was TF2 that talked about how ultra important silhouettes are for shooters considering that players will very rarely be standing still in front of an enemy. So most details get lost and the most important for threat identification is the shape of the head, shoulders arms and legs. Very few mutants in Q2, I think 6 at most. I only ever encountered the fish once and medics were very late and very sparse. So the enemies that are unique were very underused. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 04:15
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As far as I'm concerned, Doom & Doom II are the gold standard in enemy design--not just in their stats and behaviors but also their relative sizes, their silhouettes, and their color schemes. At a glance you can see what you're up against when you step into a room; everything is immediately readable, and they even managed to do this for the three basic human enemies. Like most people in this thread I may be speaking with 30 years of hindsight on the game, but it held true back in the "day" as well. It's one of my biggest criticisms with a number of games released during this "boomer shooter" revival: devs gently caress this part up and you end up with a bunch of indistinct enemies that coalesce into one big chaotic mess.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:17
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dr_rat posted:I think hit scanners do work when they're not the only, or even just main enemy, but just part of the monster mix. Doom usually used them well. Yeah, making the hitscanners super squishy is what makes them not too terrible in doom - stuff like the chaingun, or even the shotgun's range make prioritizing them very easy, but the squishyness also means they'll get taken out by collateral like the SSG or the RL. Assepoester posted:I think the key is the colors. Quake 2 enemies are all some mix of blood red, flesh, and gunmetal grey. Whereas Doom and even Quake with all its brown and grey managed to have more variety - hell, Quake's most iconic enemy is covered in white fur e: How did i forget about Vores? gently caress Vores.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:18
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I do not trust the person who claims to have played Quake yet cannot recall the bouncy-squishy boys!
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Aug 12, 2023 04:21
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I do not trust the person who claims to have played Quake and cannot recall the bouncy-squishy boys. 
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Aug 12, 2023 04:22
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What where they called? Spawn? Irritating enemies, but totally forgettable once you've finished the game. Shamblers DeathKnights and Vores are what I remember, that and the techbase dudes on E1M1.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:23
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The blue bouncy goop things are the one thing I actively disliked in Quake. But they only really showed up in one episode and were relatively sparsely used. Vores were fine because they encouraged always moving at full tilt and weaving around cover. They never caused me that much trouble.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:23
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I just found breaking the tracking the vore projectiles to always be way harder then I'd expect. I'd speed around a corner and think I was safe only to get a face full of explosion. Particularly as someone who played a ton of Doom - I'm near certain vore projectiles track way harder then revenant fireballs.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:27
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Oxyclean posted:I just found breaking the tracking the vore projectiles to always be way harder then I'd expect. I'd speed around a corner and think I was safe only to get a face full of explosion. Oh they follow almost perfectly. They will totally go around corners. The trick is to run past enemies because they aren't stationary like map elements are. If you run past an enemy there's a good chance they will eat the vore missile. Basically, when multiple vores are around, you need to pretend you are sonic and never stop moving. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 04:28
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Oxyclean posted:I just found breaking the tracking the vore projectiles to always be way harder then I'd expect. I'd speed around a corner and think I was safe only to get a face full of explosion.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:32
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Dramicus posted:Oh they follow almost perfectly. They will totally go around corners. The trick is to run past enemies because they aren't stationary like map elements are. If you run past an enemy there's a good chance they will eat the vore missile. the best maps were the ones in ep4 - running away from Vore spike balls, only to turn a corner and hear the gloop of a Spawn jumping bonus points for dumb Fiends wanting some love
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Aug 12, 2023 04:44
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BattleMaster posted:I'm not saying anyone has to like Quake 2 or anything but Rupert Buttermilk slagging on it is essentially just their gimmick at this point, so ignore them Oh, I was hoping for some actual parallels between Quake 2 and Rage. Inventory I guess, but Quake 2 didn't have anything as cool as the wingsticks.
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Aug 12, 2023 04:44
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Oxyclean posted:That's probably the one thing that Q4 almost got right? Like, beyond that one scene, I swear I remember there being a bunch of stuff where you see the Strogg using human torsos to pump their chemicals through or something. Yeah, I really liked Quake 4 for that. Quake 2 was probably a bit too primitive to really nail things in the gross way Quake 4 did. I'm the one who really liked Quake 2 and 4 and Wars because I like the whole "alien invasion by low-tech Borg barbarians" thing. IDGAF about what people think about those games, I want more Strogg with space marines or earthbound non-space marines
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Aug 12, 2023 04:54
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quake 2's machine gun has always been weirdly satisfying to me
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Aug 12, 2023 05:55
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BattleMaster posted:I'm not saying anyone has to like Quake 2 or anything but Rupert Buttermilk slagging on it is essentially just their gimmick at this point, so ignore them I've never played Rage, that wasn't my intent; I was referring to how they wanted the game to be a new franchise but then slapped the Quake name on it. So, it could've been Rage before Rage. Anyway, it was a dumb post (as all of mine are), but I will definitely give Quake 2 a fair shot with this remaster.
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Aug 12, 2023 06:49
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Oxyclean posted:I just found breaking the tracking the vore projectiles to always be way harder then I'd expect. I'd speed around a corner and think I was safe only to get a face full of explosion. Ooh, bad memories of The Reckoning mission pack for Quake II coming back. It features a variation of the Iron Maiden that has tracking missiles, so hiding around corners has you eating severe splash damage. You learn to move back several steps further quickly. On a whole the added/upgraded enemies are a slog to fight and with the new laser guard you've got even more hitscan to deal with. Yeah, I'm just going to use the console to skip to the final level and collect my achievement for finishing The Reckoning, I've had my fill. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 08:22
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Catching up on the thread, glad y'all are liking the Q2 rerelease!juggalo baby coffin posted:lmao one of the multiplayer player tags is just the fireblu texture This was 100% me. Although I can't take credit for the dog tags concept in general: the idea is that instead of just doing all the titles within the Zenimax/MS family, we either only did Quake 2 universe related ones (Q4 and ETQW) and the rest are games that were out roughly when Quake 2 was out, so Wasteland, Arena, Daggerfall, and MS games like Age of Empires, Skifree, Chip's Challenge, Minesweeper, and Freecell. But there was no way I wasn't putting a fireblu in there. Mierenneuker posted:Bunch of cowards taking a neutral stance on such an important subject This was also 100% me and I'm hopeful I will make both sides mad at me for this. Angryhead posted:A classic image: Fun story: this image was used as a placeholder MOTD during Quake 1 development, and resulted in a must fix cert callout from one of the console manufacturers as temp content. Thankfully it was just a backend update. spongeh fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 08:51
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it rules, thanks for the work
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Aug 12, 2023 10:01
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spongeh posted:But there was no way I wasn't putting a fireblu in there. spongeh posted:This was also 100% me and I'm hopeful I will make both sides mad at me for this. You're a goddamn hero.
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Aug 12, 2023 10:46
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spongeh posted:Catching up on the thread, glad y'all are liking the Q2 rerelease! These are great! I also love that in 2023, there's tags for Blood and SS2 in a Quake game. Definitely feels like the type of thing you would have encountered online back then.
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Aug 12, 2023 11:27
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spongeh posted:But there was no way I wasn't putting a fireblu in there. 
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Aug 12, 2023 11:42
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Since I'm playing Quake II on an Xbox Series S overall I think the only major complaint I have from a control point is that the aim assist is honestly pretty rear end, it really needs to be stronger*, particularly in a game so heavily laden with high damaging hitscan enemies that are probably just a touch tankier than they really should be, I'm on Easy so it hasn't been much of an issue but it does make fighting certain enemies a lot more annoying than if I was using M/KB controls(not to mention makes the Blaster mostly useless) *I'm more than capable of precise shots with a controller but something like a Quake game is a bit too fast paced for that to be feasible a lot of the time
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Aug 12, 2023 12:05
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any teeny tiny chance of the PS1 campaign going in 🥹??
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Aug 12, 2023 12:06
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Quantum of Phallus posted:any teeny tiny chance of the PS1 campaign going in 🥹??  No word on a release date or whatever yet but it's apparently basically done.
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Aug 12, 2023 12:26
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The Kins posted:One of the devs posted on the community mapmaker discord that he's working on it as a personal mod project, not as an official addition. in the space of the few years, we have received: - Blood source ports - Dark Forces 1-2 source ports - incredible, and free for existing owners, ports of Doom I, II, Quake I, Quake II with frankly absurd levels of additional content and improvements - actual retail releases of PowerslaveEX and RottEX - DOOM SIXTY FOUR - SYSTEM SHOCK REMAKE WHICH BLEW MY RETINAS OFF In addition to a tonne of amazing new retro-FPS style games which are more than I could have ever hoped for when this thread started. the entire world is burning and humanity will be dead in a few years, but it's a hell of a way to go out Convex fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 13:15
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Oxyclean posted:but 100% agree the hitscan poo poo sucks. I think both Dusk and Amid Evil don't have any hitscanners and they own for it. Even cultic's "very fast but still projectiles" helps so much in making it good. Hell, you can even dodge or slide under them if you're good enough. juggalo baby coffin posted:quake 2's machine gun has always been weirdly satisfying to me Yeah it has a good feel to it. I liked the assault rifle a ton in dusk which it kinda reminds me of, just no recoil. Dramicus posted:I also think the sci-fi setting forced some changes like nailgun -> machine gun, which is just not as interesting, both conceptually and mechanically. The nailguns firing 3d nails that have travel time are just a superior game weapon to the hitscan mgs. The laser gun sort of does the nailgun thing, but the ammo is a lot scarcer and I feel like I need to save energy for the shield, so I end up never firing it. I've played very little q1, but I have been enjoying the nailgun a ton in quake champions. It's such an interesting weapon. Cream-of-Plenty posted:My mom and uncles would always tell me about how, as kids, my grandfather would hide in their closets--often elaborately disguised as silver screen monsters--and would wait until they started to fall asleep before popping out and scaring the poo poo out of them. I came up with a lore justification for monster closets a while back that could work for certain games maybe, which is they were punished with cursed/stroggification/magic plus immurement and obviously they're gonna be pissed as hell when they came out. Idk, feels right
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Aug 12, 2023 13:45
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Milo and POTUS posted:Even cultic's "very fast but still projectiles" helps so much in making it good. Hell, you can even dodge or slide under them if you're good enough. Yeah you can really go john wick on those cultists once you figure out their little tricks
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Aug 12, 2023 13:46
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spongeh posted:This was also 100% me and I'm hopeful I will make both sides mad at me for this. I knew that that wasn't an attempt to appeal to both sides or an act of cowardice. I knew it was a carefully calculated effort to poo poo in both cereal bowls. Milo and POTUS posted:I came up with a lore justification for monster closets a while back that could work for certain games maybe, which is they were punished with cursed/stroggification/magic plus immurement and obviously they're gonna be pissed as hell when they came out. Idk, feels right "Chubli the imp's spent seven weeks trapped in that hidden utility closet just gettin angry!" Cream-of-Plenty fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 16:39
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spongeh posted:Catching up on the thread, glad y'all are liking the Q2 rerelease! Just wanted to reiterate that any bitching or moaning about Q2 is purely about Q2's design. Your remaster is fantastic, you all did an excellent job!
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Aug 12, 2023 16:49
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Dramicus posted:Just wanted to reiterate that any bitching or moaning about Q2 is purely about Q2's design. Your remaster is fantastic, you all did an excellent job! Yeah, same. Night Dive does consistently good work.
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Aug 12, 2023 17:06
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Sexy moaning big boob rocket launcher ladies. Ah, 90s gamingCream-of-Plenty posted:"Chubli the imp's spent seven weeks trapped in that hidden utility closet just gettin angry!" What's the lore explanation for the time a closet opens and a monster leaps out and when you go in a second closet inside the first one opens and a second monster leaps out
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Aug 12, 2023 17:08
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Solitary confinement.
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Aug 12, 2023 17:19
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The imps just like pranking each other.
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Aug 12, 2023 17:23
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What's the lore explanation for the monsters using colour coded keys to cordon off the various bits of hell
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Aug 12, 2023 17:25
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Volte posted:What's the lore explanation for the monsters using colour coded keys to cordon off the various bits of hell
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