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ninjewtsu posted:I feel like I've been complaining about sniper for nearly a decade, I don't believe any of this is new and this isn't even getting into people being furious about body shots for that length of time Bodyshots aren't a particularly serious complaint because its mostly coming from a perceived lack of skill from the other side, like a sniper who can't do much more than bodyshot has comically terrible DPS.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:25
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khwarezm posted:Bodyshots aren't a particularly serious complaint because its mostly coming from a perceived lack of skill from the other side, like a sniper who can't do much more than bodyshot has comically terrible DPS. I'm not saying I'm a proponent of the bodyshot argument (it's a relatively mild symptom of deeper issues imo) but it is a good example of sniper being a class that people have been hating on for as long as I can remember People used to get livid over bodyshots
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Aug 12, 2023 19:26
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khwarezm posted:The only class that seems broadly uncontroversial is the Soldier it seems, but maybe his time will come if the Sniper gets a nerf and people start talking about how its bullshit that he can two shot 8 out of 9 classes. Even the scout seems to have some controversy concerning his dominance in 6s and I've seen some people argue that the Medic doesn't work very well because he's too passive compared to combat classes which make him sort of boring while also being too crucial in the course of the game that you simply can't do without one, and stacking medics is banned in every competitive mode. The funny thing is that Soldier is and has always been the most broken class by virtue of being a generalist in a game designed around specialists. Being second best at everything in a game like this is incredibly strong.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:30
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nah medic is 100% the most broken class
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Aug 12, 2023 20:01
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remember when the backburner gave you +50 HP and crit everyone in the flames if a single person's back was exposed to you? we've strayed so far from god's light.
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Aug 12, 2023 20:03
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khwarezm posted:Tomislav
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Aug 12, 2023 20:10
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khwarezm posted:Like there were always complaints about this or that in years past but nothing like this, it kind of feels like the zeitgeist just moves from one class to the next without much rhyme or reason. You just described exactly the process of how the meta changes over time as balance adjustments are made. Several of the meta complaints you talk about were explicit responses to buffs those classes received, and others emerged as bigger problems got removed that previously overshadowed them. And it's not like nobody noticed these issues before. 6s put a 1x limit on Heavy and Demo very early on, and that was partly to discourage stacking turtley classes that slowed the game down, but the limit wouldn't have been necessary if they weren't capable of overpowering other compositions.
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Aug 12, 2023 20:12
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Countblanc posted:nah medic is 100% the most broken class technically true but honestly i don't really think of medic as a class as much as it is a punishment assigned to whichever member of the team cares enough about winning to play it
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Aug 12, 2023 20:26
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What. Medic is some of the most fun in the game for me lol
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Aug 12, 2023 22:17
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I enjoy medic but it's plain that most players don't with how uncommon meds are in casual compared to teams of like 3 spy, 2 sniper and a random assortment of other classes
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Aug 12, 2023 22:43
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soldier did have to eat a huge nerf because even god saw that such a great thing could not last forever (rip base jumper redeployment)
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Aug 12, 2023 22:44
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IronicDongz posted:I enjoy medic but it's plain that most players don't with how uncommon meds are in casual compared to teams of like 3 spy, 2 sniper and a random assortment of other classes Its a shame cause if you set your autocall to under 100% health you literally never stop doing things and are always micromanaging and keeping tabs on things and switching heal targets and landing crossbows and before you know it you got uber and you find the good demo on the team etc etc. Its just so intense practically all the time theres almost no downtime
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Aug 12, 2023 23:00
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Medics fun if you have a few competent players on your team. You’ll feel like a force multiplier. When your team no pocketable classes, or they are just comically bad players, it feels like rusty spoons in your eyes. At which point I switch to soldier or demo and have fun trying to balance the odds.
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Aug 12, 2023 23:12
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Dieting Hippo posted:soldier did have to eat a huge nerf because even god saw that such a great thing could not last forever (rip base jumper redeployment) until the last few words of this post I thought you were talking about them reducing the rocket supply from 40 to 20
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Aug 12, 2023 23:24
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medic is very fun but i generally only play it on no-crit servers because dying to crits as med is uniquely awful, and even then i generally only play as second or third medic because the overheal just makes your life so much easier with how rampant snipers are on pub beloved maps like upward and badwater
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Aug 12, 2023 23:26
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ArfJason posted:Its a shame cause if you set your autocall to under 100% health you literally never stop doing things and are always micromanaging and keeping tabs on things and switching heal targets and landing crossbows and before you know it you got uber and you find the good demo on the team etc etc. Its just so intense practically all the time theres almost no downtime This is my experience playing Medic as well. I actually can't play Medic for more than a round or two because it's so frenetic that I start to deathgrip my mouse and it makes my hands hurt after 
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Aug 12, 2023 23:30
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Generally why if I play Medic I usually just run Quickfix, least stressful way to play the class
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Aug 13, 2023 00:16
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i agree in moment-to-moment but i get Fussy if i can't press M2 and make 5 sentries magically disappear
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Aug 13, 2023 00:17
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also my keyboard hand hurts because as a medic, i am duty-bound to scream READY FOR THE CHARGE HERR DOKTOR every single drat time the game will let me
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Aug 13, 2023 00:23
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Well don't that beat all
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Aug 13, 2023 00:26
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Abroham Lincoln posted:Well don't that beat all Pretty much. A very determined pyro or two can just juggle the uber back, but ideally you should have enough teammates in the vicinity to make them into a momentary speedbump.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:37
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the holy poopacy posted:You just described exactly the process of how the meta changes over time as balance adjustments are made. Several of the meta complaints you talk about were explicit responses to buffs those classes received, and others emerged as bigger problems got removed that previously overshadowed them. I dunno, I just find it hard not to think there's a bit of a bandwagon phenomenon with some of the complaints over time, where its not really that big a deal but kind of becomes a meme that then valve feels they have to fix because of some loud players. This feels most acute with these sniper discussions because we're basically talking about the class as it exists by default, and that basically hasn't changed at all since 2008. Looking at the update history for the sniper rifle there were some tweaks regarding zoom delay and quick switch exploits in the first few months of the game's life and... that's it, they essentially have not touched the default sniper at all since then. Through all of the ups and downs of the game, for most of its history people accepted the sniper in this state that it wasn't something valve felt needed to be addressed. Obviously people can disagree, but I truly never got the impression that default Sniper was some major problem that needs to be fixed because he's damaging the game until maybe a year ago. People said this or that about bodyshots or not being man enough to fight in the thick of things in the past, but it feels like its gotten a lot more pronounced lately and I'm not really that convinced by most of the arguments, especially things like close range headshots considering how hard it is for the sniper to actually do that and how skill or luck dependent it is as a result. Frankly if somebody headshots me as a scout when I'm in meatshot range I tend to think 'poo poo, well done' more than 'gently caress this stupid rear end class valve, NERF THEM!'. I will admit though, its certainly true that sniper sightlines are miserable to deal with on particular poorly designed maps, but then I think that's more to do with the maps being crap more than sniper being a bad class for the game, though it does add an additional complexity to map design that can be hard to factor in. I always think Doublecross is the worst example of a map that can be very fun but overbearing sniper sightlines can really spoil things. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 01:02
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My favorite thing about the stickybomb nerfs is Valve tried it at first in the love & war update and the wailing and gnashing of teeth was so tremendous that they reverted it a couple days later and waited until Smissmas that year to try it again.
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Aug 13, 2023 04:40
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khwarezm posted:Frankly if somebody headshots me as a scout when I'm in meatshot range I tend to think 'poo poo, well done' more than 'gently caress this stupid rear end class valve, NERF THEM!'. I point blanked a Scout once and then followed up by killing a Pyro that was running in a straight line on the other end of the map. The Scout went "Nice shot" and the Pyro went "Kill yourself N-word"
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Aug 13, 2023 05:01
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Getting bodyshot to death is especially tilting because it means either the sniper sucked too much to hit your head, or they didn't feel the need to try and aim properly, and that fucker still killed me. It makes you feel like you got outplayed specifically because you suck, not because they're good.
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Aug 13, 2023 14:56
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Unscoped bodyshots rule, especially when they're preceded by a quick headshot. The real treat is 3 of them on a scout harassing you, it's like shooing away a fly.
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Aug 13, 2023 15:28
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Vaah posted:Unscoped bodyshots rule, especially when they're preceded by a quick headshot. Thanks Scout-B-Gone!
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Aug 13, 2023 16:54
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Weird how I can be more accurate doing unscoped bodyshots with sniper in close range than any shotgun in the same space Then scope in and be just as awful as I am with shotguns
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Aug 13, 2023 22:29
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What are the recommended pubs to be playing on? I started playing again after a few years and had some Skial and Uncletopia servers in my favorites.
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Aug 14, 2023 00:56
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I'd also like to see some recommendations, Uncletopia servers are better than casual but they seem to always be pretty lop-sided. IME it's been rare to have an even match, they're usually very one-sided (if not complete stomps).
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Aug 14, 2023 01:31
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did the heavy update come out yet
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Aug 14, 2023 02:10
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Geight posted:My favorite thing about the stickybomb nerfs is Valve tried it at first in the love & war update and the wailing and gnashing of teeth was so tremendous that they reverted it a couple days later and waited until Smissmas that year to try it again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqtm1Pxv5po
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Aug 14, 2023 02:10
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Frida Call Me posted:did the heavy update come out yet current status of heavy update https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiuyhxp4w9I
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Aug 14, 2023 02:28
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Dieting Hippo posted:current status of heavy update thanks i'll check back in another uh uhm uhhh 9 years
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Aug 14, 2023 02:46
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Art can change the world
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Aug 14, 2023 07:36
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CodfishCartographer posted:I'd also like to see some recommendations, Uncletopia servers are better than casual but they seem to always be pretty lop-sided. IME it's been rare to have an even match, they're usually very one-sided (if not complete stomps). One-sided stomps is pretty much most games of TF2 in my experience
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Aug 14, 2023 09:55
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when I played pyro, I used to like telling soldiers that they were a low skill class. they don't even have to aim!
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Aug 14, 2023 10:10
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mfcrocker posted:One-sided stomps is pretty much most games of TF2 in my experience I know it's insane. Really need to address the balancer, which only seems to balance teams in the last 30 seconds of a game. TF2 really needs to bring back it's old shuffle vote restart again. Almost to a point of it being the next thing they should push in an update.
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Aug 14, 2023 12:36
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!scrimbo
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Aug 14, 2023 13:45
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pokchu posted:!scrimbo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdo7qvLEHog
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