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Fart Amplifier posted:a) it's dictum
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Aug 11, 2023 22:41
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Murgos posted:I think this is brilliant if she actually does it. Yeah this is such an ideal threat my heart can barely stand it. The case run by Cannon is basically forgotten to me at this point. Trump can't run or hide here- the usual tricks just tighten the noose. Ugh, or so I hope.
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Aug 11, 2023 23:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look, our whole economy is based on the theory of One Weird Trick, this is just the one that lets you do crimes. Hard to blame the founders for letting this one slip through. In their era anyone carrying on like Trump does would've ended up like Aaron Burr did.. True, but it's a little bizarre to believe that a president can pardon himself of any and all crimes they commit because, hell, why not just go full on full fascism, completely ignore elections and do whatever the gently caress with classified docum... Oh, wait. Hieronymous Alloy posted:He won't win. Where have I heard this before?
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Aug 12, 2023 00:50
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Main Paineframe posted:By focusing on the one point that they all wholeheartedly agree on: that That probably wins you 90-95% of republicans less whatever number are dissuaded by the 1/6 stuff, (which is about how that performed in 2020, it did better in 2016). Doesn't do much for independents though, which republicans really need to figure out a way to win if they want a realistic shot of winning the whitehouse back. Main Paineframe posted:The GOP has been wrestling with these internal divides for basically the entirety of the 21st century so far. While it's certainly brought a lot of stress and instability to the party, so far there isn't really any evidence that these splits are consistently ruining its chances. Sure, 2020 and 2022 haven't been so great for the GOP, but I wouldn't be so quick to declare that this is finally the breaking point. yeah I'm specifically not suggesting it is a done deal or anything like that and I specifically never would. A lot can happen in politics in 6 months, to say nothing of 14 months. this is definitely the most fractured I've ever seen the republican party and while I don't doubt that a lot of them will return to the fold, they need significantly more to come back than they managed previously. Now the divisions are bigger and the gop's war on women, immigrants, lgbtq people are a lot farther along and more overt than they used to be even just 5 years ago and they just galvanized abortion as a defining political issue in the coming elections. If they proceed to nominate trump, then he becomes yet another defining political issue for 2024. it's a lot to juggle and I do not envy having to try to figure that political strategy out. I'm genuinely intrigued by how tf they dig themselves out of that hole.
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Aug 12, 2023 01:21
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Syphilicious! posted:Answer what questions and how? We are quibbling over margins, over whether R voters turned off by the authoritarian implications of Trump's 2024 run outnumber new or returning voters who see a Trump win as an even more explicit gently caress you to The System than 2016, and whether that margin outnumbers the the margin between D voters turned off by Biden's senility and abortive legislative efforts and new or returning voters who see a Trump win as the end of democracy. We will only get a serious answer when some massive event (an actual Trump criminal conviction, some kind of serious public exacerbation of Biden's health/mental problems a la Hillary passing out on 9/11, etc.) causes an unprecedented polling break in one direction or the other, and failing that we'll only get a serious answer on election night. As it stands now, that faultline in the Republican party doesn't mean much at all, and I have no reason to believe that the 40% of Republicans who are sitting on their thumbs and sticking to Desantis or Ramaswamy or whoever the gently caress won't trundle in to vote for Big Don on election night because he still isn't Joe Biden. That event was Dobbs and the elections have broken 10% to the left of expectations since than. If even half of that remains in the 2024 election, it will be a landslide.
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Aug 12, 2023 01:55
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BiggerBoat posted:True, but it's a little bizarre to believe that a president can pardon himself of any and all crimes they commit because, hell, why not just go full on full fascism, completely ignore elections and do whatever the gently caress with classified docum... In a sane world I could squint really hard and see an argument that a president should be able to do something that is technically illegal but in the best interest of the nation or national security. That is obviously a very slippery slope and would be abused (or will be abused if Trump is reelected) now that the other traditional checks and balances on the executive have pretty much dissolved.
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Aug 12, 2023 02:14
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Herstory Begins Now posted:That probably wins you 90-95% of republicans less whatever number are dissuaded by the 1/6 stuff, (which is about how that performed in 2020, it did better in 2016). Doesn't do much for independents though, which republicans really need to figure out a way to win if they want a realistic shot of winning the whitehouse back. The Republican thought processes on that has been,"6-week abortion bans enrage the public. What if we make it 12 weeks?" I'm not worried.
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Aug 12, 2023 02:28
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Main Paineframe posted:By focusing on the one point that they all wholeheartedly agree on: that If we ever get ranked choice voting, the resulting GOP split would be something to watch with popcorn as the Big Tent explodes. Of course the Democrat Big Tent would also fall apart, but I feel it would be more of a deflation...or mild explosion. Edit to be more on point of the thread: I can't wait to see Trump getting railroaded. Love the threat that the more he's on TV the more the judge aggressively pursues his case. I look forward to blessed silence for a few days or even a week or two followed by Trump just grabbing a podium to scream at the clouds because he NEEDS his attention. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 03:10
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It's better than a mere "do it and the case will be scheduled earlier". Chutkan indicated his speech is not absolute. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/politics/trump-protective-order-chutkan-hearing/index.htmlquote:noting that while Trump’s rights as a criminal defendant would be protected, his First Amendment right to free speech was “not absolute.” Starting with this smaller gag order, the stage is set for expansion next week after T  posts.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:15
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Starting with this smaller gag order, the stage is set for expansion next week after T One of Chutkan's quotes that you share has been misleadingly edited as well: quote:“Even arguably ambiguous statements by the parties or their counsel- if they can be reasonably interpreted to intimidate witnesses or to prejudice potential jurors - can threaten the process"
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Aug 12, 2023 17:05
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Paracaidas posted:You continue to confuse the protective order (which solely covers the disclosure of some information received during discovery) and the gag order you've been longing for. You can bet that when the juries are selected the prosecution is going to ask that they be sequestered. This has two effects. 1) Its going to protect the jury from any risk of tampering or threats against their person. 2) Its going to force the trial to go faster and reduce the likelihood that the defense is going to be able to engage in delay shenanigans.
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Aug 12, 2023 17:51
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I would not enjoy being on Trump insurrection trial jury summer camp.
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Aug 12, 2023 18:21
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I absolutely would and that's why I would get disqualified.
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Aug 12, 2023 18:32
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Robviously posted:I absolutely would and that's why I would get disqualified. Actually, yeah, there is a certain draw to being able to personally have a say, but I would just never talk to any other jurors, lol.
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Aug 12, 2023 18:35
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mutata posted:Actually, yeah, there is a certain draw to being able to personally have a say, but I would just never talk to any other jurors, lol. I would absolutely suspend my moral compass to lie through my teeth about neutrality and get my way on that jury. In this fantasy after my name gets out as the lead juror that pushed for conviction, I'd have Home Alone style traps in my house for the waves of angry chuds coming for my head in revenge.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:29
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I would accept being sequestered inside a rotting whale colon if it meant I could break the back of American conservatism for the near future.
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Aug 12, 2023 19:37
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Scags McDouglas posted:I would absolutely suspend my moral compass to lie through my teeth about neutrality and get my way on that jury. Well you just disqualified yourself buddy because the jury selection will definitely inspect your something is awful account.
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Aug 12, 2023 20:56
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Pauly Shore has already shown us the way. We have but to take it. Buddy.
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Aug 12, 2023 21:05
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SpeakSlow posted:Pauly Shore has already shown us the way. Isn't that more from Encino Man? I would've gone with "say hi to Judge Ito." God why do I remember that.
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Aug 12, 2023 21:29
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mutata posted:I would not enjoy being on Trump insurrection trial jury summer camp. I love the phrase 'Trump insurrection trial jury summer camp'
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Aug 12, 2023 22:37
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I wonder if the fact I consider Trump the most unprincipled head of state in history disqualify me from Trump insurrection jury trial summer camp? Even Caligula was faithful to his wife.
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Aug 12, 2023 23:19
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Lammasu posted:Even Caligula was faithful to his wife. And was normal enough to own animals!
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Aug 13, 2023 00:51
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Sheesh.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_Duty_(film) Dead, Pauly Shore deficient, Dead, Gay, Forums Ed. In my defense it was on topic with the good guy jury tampering.
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Aug 13, 2023 02:08
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cr0y posted:In a sane world I could squint really hard and see an argument that a president should be able to do something that is technically illegal but in the best interest of the nation or national security. That is obviously a very slippery slope and would be abused (or will be abused if Trump is reelected) now that the other traditional checks and balances on the executive have pretty much dissolved. Big Reagan excusing the Iran Contra affair vibes
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Aug 13, 2023 02:52
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Guest2553 posted:And was normal enough to own animals!
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Aug 13, 2023 04:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:That probably wins you 90-95% of republicans less whatever number are dissuaded by the 1/6 stuff, (which is about how that performed in 2020, it did better in 2016). Doesn't do much for independents though, which republicans really need to figure out a way to win if they want a realistic shot of winning the whitehouse back. Agreed with all this, but the strategy is going to be the same as ever - screaming about the moral panics of the hour and trying to whip up the base into an ever greater frenzy. At the same time, keep doing everything possible with the power they already hold to rig things in their favor, through gerrymandering, voter suppression, whatever it takes. Of course their fundamental problem is that these are stopgaps, not solutions. They have gone so extreme that whipping up the base now seriously alienates a lot of people who might otherwise vote for them, and all of their methods for loving with elections are either time-limited (gerrymandering can lose its efficacy pretty quickly as populations move around and age) or only serve as an annoying obstacle rather than a genuine block (you can make it so people have to stand in the rain until 11pm to cast their ballots, but if they think it's an important election and/or have a hearty "gently caress you" to say to someone, they absolutely will do that.) And every cycle is a few more dead Republican boomers and a few more leftist young voters. Republican's real strength is that the Dems fall so far short of what many want from them, but they can't capitalize on that when they cause so much anger, and pose a genuine threat to American democracy, that all the people mad at the Dem establishment still come out because "gently caress Joe Biden, but ultra-gently caress Trump, at least if it's Biden the federal government will just ignore my trans rear end" or whatever equivalent suits. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Dec 30, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 08:05
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Ms Adequate posted:Republican's real strength is that the Dems fall so far short of what many want from them, but they can't capitalize on that when they cause so much anger, and pose a genuine threat to American democracy, that all the people mad at the Dem establishment still come out because "gently caress Joe Biden, but ultra-gently caress Trump, at least if it's Biden the federal government will just ignore my trans rear end" or whatever equivalent suits. This is compounded as they also have the Court, which means that even many of the things Dems do when in power get yoinked away. What's that, Biden actually impalements a (narrow) student debt forgiveness? Major questions doctrine says no. So the Dems are further neutered into the let's-at-least-not-make-poo poo-worse option.
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Aug 13, 2023 08:38
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snorch posted:Well you just disqualified yourself buddy because the jury selection will definitely inspect your something is awful account. While I do love the idea of the Defense asking jurors if they have stairs in their house, it's probably going to be much easier for a leftie to sneak through than a chud. We have the advantage of not being publicly pro any of the two parties candidates for at least a decade or so.
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Aug 13, 2023 11:04
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Georgia prosecutors have messages showing Trump’s team is behind voting system breach https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/13/politics/coffee-county-georgia-voting-system-breach-trump
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Aug 13, 2023 12:08
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Charlz Guybon posted:Georgia prosecutors have messages showing Trump’s team is behind voting system breach This strikes me as significant but I’m no Jack Smith.
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Aug 13, 2023 12:11
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BiggerBoat posted:True, but it's a little bizarre to believe that a president can pardon himself of any and all crimes they commit because, hell, why not just go full on full fascism, completely ignore elections and do whatever the gently caress with classified docum... The guy has never won the popular vote and thoroughly lost the last three elections for his party, including one ('22) where the basic political math is that the party out of power always sweeps back in with a vengeance, especially in poor economic conditions. Yes, much can change, any political party can bungle anything at any time, Joe can die, etc. But even if Trump never serves a day in jail, it's basic math at this point that he's unelectable under current conditions. This is setting aside tea leaves and astrological portents like "Americans hate a loser" or whatever. And there are a few Republican candidates who will probably wait until the day of the nomination to admit defeat because they expect they might slip in under the wire to take his place in the event of an increasingly likely legal catastrophe for Trump. I would honestly be more worried about someone being crowned heir apparent than Trump at this point.
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Aug 13, 2023 13:34
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Ms Adequate posted:Agreed with all this, but the strategy is going to be the same as ever - screaming about the moral panics of the hour and trying to whip up the base into an eber greater frenzy. At the same time, keep doing everything possible with the power they already hold to rig things in their favor, through gerrymandering, voter suppression, whatever it takes. What I don't get about the current anti trans and drag sentiment is it kind of seems like they are a little late to be protesting that. Pride fests were well on their way to being about as political as St. Patrick's Day. Go to the park, have a party watch a parade. Been doing it for over 50 years. Hell, why not try and bring back anti Irish sentiment while we're at it. GREEN BEER IS UNNATURAL!
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Aug 13, 2023 15:16
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Charlz Guybon posted:Georgia prosecutors have messages showing Trump’s team is behind voting system breach Yeah this seems big. Looks like Guiliani had a lawyer working for him who coordinated with a local in GA to find a way to get at the voting machines and Trump was in the room (at a minimum) for some of the dealing that was going on. So at a minimum he could be convicted as a conspirator here even if he didn't actually say anything one way or another. CNN article posted:On January 1, 2021 – days ahead of the January 7 voting systems breach – Katherine Friess – an attorney working with Giuliani, Sidney Powell and other Trump allies shared a “written invitation” to examine voting systems in Coffee County with a group of Trump allies. There's some other details in there but I think thats the most important stuff by far.
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Aug 13, 2023 15:53
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I was going to post that GA voting system story myself and agree that, reading it, it seems like a huge loving deal even though I'm not sure what the actual charge would be. Attempted election fraud? I get in debates with folks from time to time who claim that 1/6 wasn't an insurrection but a protest and I ask them "protesting what?" followed by "OK, so what were they going to do once they got into the capitol? What was the plan? The goal?" I can't see it as anything other than "overthrow the vote" at best and "draw and quarter Pelosi and Pence" at worst. Or some combination of the two. Overthrowing democracy is a practical definition of an insurrection and it doesn't need to succeed in order to be defined that way. The other thing I stress, when they whatabout me with BLM and Antifa is that those people were protesting things that actually happened. Nazis in the streets and cops killing unarmed citizens and getting away with it. Those things are real. 2023 election cheating is not. Name Change posted:The guy has never won the popular vote and thoroughly lost the last three elections for his party, including one ('22) where the basic political math is that the party out of power always sweeps back in with a vengeance, especially in poor economic conditions. He doesn't have to. Only 2 Republican presidents in the last 35 years have won the popular vote and, right now, the polls I'm seeing put Trump v Biden well within the margine of what Donald would need to have a chance at an EC win. In a sane country, it wouldn't even be close right now but it IS. Plus, he's running against Biden; a deeply unpopular president that no one is excited with who also has whatever Huntergate Laptop Scandal turns out to be dragging him down (and I doubt that's going away). Trump got MORE votes his second run than he did his first, despite what we were all able to see and hear and the cult that surrounds him is something I've never EVER seen in a mainstream political candidate. What states would Trump need to flip? Two out of three of GA, PA and AZ? It appears that way messing with this thing https://www.270towin.com/ WI and MI are obtainable also. Look at these final vote tallies https://cnn.com/election/2020/results/president BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 16:34
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BiggerBoat posted:I was going to post that GA voting system story myself and agree that, reading it, it seems like a huge loving deal even though I'm not sure what the actual charge would be. Attempted election fraud? Probably conspiracy to defraud the United States.
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Aug 13, 2023 17:03
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BiggerBoat posted:Overthrowing democracy is a practical definition of an insurrection and it doesn't need to succeed in order to be defined that way. There are some really interesting historical distinctions regarding what defines "treason" or "insurrection." The American concepts are interestingly unique because the US hasn't had a monarch. If you look at British or French historical development of the concepts of "treason" it is interesting how the legal concepts changed over time. My favorite "wild card" legal violation for the January 6th event would be "Hostage Taking" under 18 U.S.C. 1203. quote:18 U.S. Code § 1203 - Hostage taking
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Aug 13, 2023 17:38
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BiggerBoat posted:I was going to post that GA voting system story myself and agree that, reading it, it seems like a huge loving deal even though I'm not sure what the actual charge would be. Attempted election fraud? the goal of the people marching in the street where a terrible tragedy occurred that could and should have been prevented is to overthrow the united states government
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Aug 13, 2023 17:41
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Lammasu posted:What I don't get about the current anti trans and drag sentiment is it kind of seems like they are a little late to be protesting that. Pride fests were well on their way to being about as political as St. Patrick's Day. Go to the park, have a party watch a parade. Been doing it for over 50 years. Hell, why not try and bring back anti Irish sentiment while we're at it. GREEN BEER IS UNNATURAL! What I've heard is that they're almost as surprised as anyone else - they were casting about for an issue that would get people fired up to vote Republican and donate and campaign and all that poo poo, one of the ones they tried boosting was trans issues, and it managed to take off. It's all the same recycled poo poo from the gay panic of 50 years ago just as you say - accusations of pedophilia (Which is especially rich coming from the right), acting like we go into bathrooms to do sex crimes instead of take a piss, yadda yadda.
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Aug 13, 2023 18:35
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I was debating Name Change about Trump being able to win in 2024 and found this: Here's an article showing Trump leading in AZ https://news.yahoo.com/biden-pitching-economic-wins-arizona-140000269.html quote:Biden also traveled to Arizona last week, a state where his 2020 upset win helped clinch victory over Donald Trump and where a repeat match next year would smooth the path to re-election. He used his second visit to the state as president to announce a popular plan to conserve 1 million acres of land near the Grand Canyon.
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Aug 13, 2023 18:47
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BiggerBoat posted:I was debating Name Change about Trump being able to win in 2024 and found this: Yeah, people dismissing the possibility of a Trump win is setting them up for even worse disappointment if he does.its not remotely unlikely
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Aug 13, 2023 19:13
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