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RabidWeasel posted:Construction is currently incredibly fast, you should not be able to completely industrialise France by the 1860s and have zero unemployment or peasants Also it makes me feel better about myself, because yes I’m a colonizer, but I’m helping, look at all the modern conveniences and high paying jobs I’ve brought in, the people are objectively better off now please ignore your loved ones dying horrible deaths in factory accidents and also the tremendous racism CapnAndy fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 17:08
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Wiz, will we be able to build Victoria's secret if we corner the clothing market and still have victoria as queen?
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Aug 10, 2023 17:31
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Victoria 3: "Profits Intensifies"
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Aug 10, 2023 17:36
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This is going to make trade vastly more powerful and really hurt countries with low trade access. Meiji restoration in particular is going to get more difficult since your autarkic industrialization is going to be slow. Hopefully it makes embargoes matter as well.
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Aug 10, 2023 17:38
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fishtank emporium in base or riot
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Aug 10, 2023 17:44
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Fister Roboto posted:
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Aug 10, 2023 18:03
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Poil posted:I'm not an expert but are biplanes really the best vehicle to fish from? When zeppelins exist.
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Aug 10, 2023 18:15
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Poil posted:I'm not an expert but are biplanes really the best vehicle to fish from? When zeppelins exist. Are you trying to tell me that zeppelins aren't just fifteen planes jumbled together?
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Aug 10, 2023 18:36
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CapnAndy posted:I don't love a construction cost increase across the board, but yes, it does sound cool. Automobiles in particular are kind of a mess. Don't convert all of your engine manufacturers over to them, instead just convert a smaller engine factory and then wait until demand stabilizes. If you need more convert another small engine factory over or if the price is too low just leave it as is. Automobile manufacturers are almost never profitable so you'll probably end up subsidizing them. Automobiles fulfill the transportation need for pops, which means they compete with services and railroads, but they kind of suck compared to those two. Anything endgame has serious balance issues and once you get past around 1900 the game really starts to break down, but there have been some recent improvements. Speaking of which, I'm liking the newest dev diary. I am loving the specialization that companies encourage. We really do need something that slows construction - although I'm still in the camp of buildings (or maybe just urban centers) having a maintenance cost. Let's just hope the AI finally builds up its resources so I have someone to trade with.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:56
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IMO add the ability to utilise Automobiles as an alternative to train transportation for logging, plantation, and mining industries. Alternatively, create a Logistics industry that would exchange Automobiles and Oil for Transportation. There also is an argument to be made that Arms Industries and War Machine Factories would have the ability to make Automobiles to represent stuff like BSA making motorcycles and BMW making cars on top of their existing businesses of guns and aircrafts.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:17
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Triple A posted:IMO add the ability to utilise Automobiles as an alternative to train transportation for logging, plantation, and mining industries. Alternatively, create a Logistics industry that would exchange Automobiles and Oil for Transportation. There also is an argument to be made that Arms Industries and War Machine Factories would have the ability to make Automobiles to represent stuff like BSA making motorcycles and BMW making cars on top of their existing businesses of guns and aircrafts. Considering the game ends in 1936 I'd say this is sort of not really viable from a historical perspective. I think they just need to reevaluate the cost compared to the benefit provided and maybe allow automobiles to fulfill luxury goods as a need. The issue is that the numbers are off on automobile profitability and inputs vs. outputs and stuff. That being said, even then there's another issue where the game has a weird thing where even if a good is cheap pops won't switch their consumption method. Once a pop uses a good to fulfill their specific need they'll generally stick with it even if another good is available at a lower price. A good example of this is oil vs. wood for meeting heating needs. There was a recent change that reduced this problem, but it still sort of exists and is obviously more of an issue for late game goods like automobiles, telephones, and radios than other goods. As to your other point, yeah there's some weird stuff going on with regards to tanks and automobiles. Hopefully companies can fix some of this, but it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to fiddle with war industries in general.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:30
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Add an event that makes Americans obsessed with fulfilling their transportation need via Automobiles.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:58
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Fister Roboto posted:
hoping that martin's fish emporium makes it into the game. it's a fun riff on sid's sushi from civ 4 anyway construction becoming more difficult is definitely good. the economic modernity snowball starts too early currently
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Aug 10, 2023 22:13
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I took a Central American country because I was planning on puppeting Mexico mostly on the grounds that I thought it'd be funny and I wanted a base to launch the invasion from, but that gave me the option to survey Panama, which gave me a claim on Panama, which I used to take the country, but I couldn't build the Panama Canal because the United States had American Panama right where it goes. So I had to go to war with America. Which I won, goddammit, but one stupid mistake (the Americans were trying to invade my capital and I had plenty of troops at home to repel them because there were no active fronts, but it turns out that if you tell your generals to go defend the front they'll pull all the troops that were where they needed to be already to be with them first while they travel back to that front, so haha, oops, door's wide open now) sent me so irreperably into default that I had to declare bankruptcy. It's fine, overall, my market got patched back up pretty quick and I'm back to rocking and rolling. But there's only 3 years left in the game now, and with the construction penalty, I'm not gonna finish the Canal in time 
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Aug 11, 2023 07:17
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Okay, I played through the end to finish the Panama Canal, and it is weirdly underwhelming. It makes a sea route through Panama, and generates some Urbanization and Prestige, but... that's it. It even loses money! I had to subsidize it! I'm somehow not charging anyone else for using my canal? Really? And there was no follow-up event for completing it or anything.
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Aug 12, 2023 01:35
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The Companies thing seems... deeply uninteresting to me. Yay, yet another manual toggle invoking your magical absolute control of the whole economy.
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Aug 12, 2023 03:21
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Yeah I have to say I'm not super psyched about what they've presented here for companies but they really stressed that there's a lot of future potential in the diary. So I hope it's something they build on. Things that feel kind of bad: -Picking the company you want to have from The Big Book of Companies. -The prosperity bonuses. They just seem like they're in the wrong game. Like they're from Civ. Civ isn't a bad game, but it's also not Vicky. Maybe insetad an increase in loyalists working at those buildings? Higher investment pool contribution efficiency? I feel like they're trying to increase player agency by adding a new choice with a bunch of options, but then the options are kind of blah, so they also sprinkled random bonuses into the mix to make the options more different. It just doesn't seem great. And the limited number of slots... it seems like there's just some really obvious winning/losing picks there. Who's ever going to take a bonus to fish and whales over [iron/coal/wood/oil/... ]?
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Aug 12, 2023 08:17
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CrypticTriptych posted:Things that feel kind of bad:
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Aug 12, 2023 09:59
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As it is now - yeah, it feels like a combination of boardgame arbitrary bonuses combined with simulationist underwhelming effect of said bonuses. This is kind of what bothers me about Stellaris. Our society is all about war we're obsessed with it and it makes our ships shoot 10% more often than the ships of peaceful beatnik race. Also we've discovered the secrets of body modifications so we are now more machines than men, and thus we produce 5% more minerals and our land armies are 10% more effective. Obviously in the hands of a good player the modifiers stack and produce speciflized powerful empires, but it doesn't have an oompf feeling it needs. Of course I don't expect companies in a more realistic setting to radically influence the country but when it's presented as a big choice like that you expect a board-game style effects, you know? I understand devs don't want companies to be an under the hood indirectly controlled feature that you can ignore entirely. It could make more sense if there were conditions for companies to appear and they would "exist" without your input but be inconsequential. Then you'd elevate some of them or grant monopoly or something, and that would result in certain bonuses AND penalties. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 10:36
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I would love a check mark that lets me exclude some factories from the „apply PM default“ state action, just for that reason. With some good you only want a couple of factories making it while the rest run your default PM. That or rebalance some of the PMs vs the demand of their special goods.
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Aug 12, 2023 11:56
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I think the companies are a real good idea. It's proven difficult for the game to create actual competitive advantage. While trade is useful in Vic3, the reality is that there are in practice a lot of good reasons and not many downsides to autarky. Throughput bonuses are nice but the reality is that the construction speed of the game always seems to eventually overwhelm throughput bonuses as a means of international competition. With Companies countries can be actually good at specific industrial sectors. Companies are also real straightforward for the AI. An AI has a Fish and Whaling company, it will either naturally bias towards those structure because they're more productive or you can slap in some modifiers so it biases towards them, keeping their prices low. It's also a framework mechanic with a lot of potential to hang ideas off of. Like, it would make a lot of sense for doing foreign investment with - United Fruit Company slamming plantations into Central America with the US forcing Open Markets, for example.
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Aug 12, 2023 12:11
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yeah i just dont really like the idea of the player being involved in the companies unless there's a distinction between public and private sector companies
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Aug 12, 2023 12:37
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I like the idea of companies and think they can be a good addition in the long run, but I really really hope they add more flavor events and journal entries in the coming patches and in the next dlc. I’ve been trying out the Victorian Flavor Mod and just a couple of more entries per country make each nation feel more alive and grounded in history. Austria for example starts with entries for the Holy Alliance and the Schleswig-Holstein question. I’m all for a complex and somewhat realistic simulation but I play paradox games for the historical setting and context, which the simulation mechanics should support and flesh out, not take priority over.
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Aug 12, 2023 12:51
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ilitarist posted:As it is now - yeah, it feels like a combination of boardgame arbitrary bonuses combined with simulationist underwhelming effect of said bonuses. if everything is modular you have to balance it by giving small bonuses you can stack on. That way if you really want a warlike species in stellaris you have to build up to it.
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Aug 12, 2023 13:26
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CapnAndy posted:Okay, I played through the end to finish the Panama Canal, and it is weirdly underwhelming. It makes a sea route through Panama, and generates some Urbanization and Prestige, but... that's it. It even loses money! I had to subsidize it! I'm somehow not charging anyone else for using my canal? Really? And there was no follow-up event for completing it or anything. The latest auctions for preferential transit are up at 850k to avoid the 20 day queue, I’m sure they’re making money now!
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Aug 12, 2023 13:37
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haruspicy posted:The latest auctions for preferential transit are up at 850k to avoid the 20 day queue, I’m sure they’re making money now! my story about the panama canal is that i once passed through it (only as a simple sailor on a larger sailboat doing science stuff) - but only after we got told the wait would be around two to four weeks to pass through (which absolutely did not mesh with the timetable we had). the captain, puzzled, realized what the problem was, and left to meet with the harbor master, carrying a suitcase of no doubt lots of documents. he came back, and we were granted leave to pass in the evening, squeezed in between two larger container ships. i learned later the content of the suitcase was about 15kUSD in cash. someone made money back then, that's for sure Popoto fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Aug 12, 2023 |
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Aug 12, 2023 13:45
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Tankbuster posted:if everything is modular you have to balance it by giving small bonuses you can stack on. That way if you really want a warlike species in stellaris you have to build up to it. Yes, just as I've said in the initial point. The thing is, individual modifiers have an impact you'd expect from EU4-style modifiers for things like establishing a war college or adapting new mining techniques. In Stellaris your race can become psionic and speak to gods and this will feel less significant than EU4 Italian city state doing a mission and building a monument making their prestige explode. You know what I mean, the gameplay impact doesn't reflect the it's narrative importance. And such smaller effects feel appropriate for a historical society in a global era. It feels right that satisfying intelligentsia has a limited effect on your control over population, and angry landlords only slightly slow down the technology spread. It's tinkering with the system bringing small effects, not transforming your civilization. But you can't just activate an interest group bonus directly. And with companies you too do it indirectly but it still feels like it's a different philosophy compared to simulationist approach of the rest of the game. Select a bar to fill, wait a little and get a bonus. If it was not a flat bonus but a scaling bonus and penalty at the same time it would feel better - in theory, of course, I don't know how it plays and how significant the bonuses are going to be.
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Aug 12, 2023 14:05
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depends on how you use it tbh. If there would be recurring bonuses your capitalists get due to the higher thoroughput bonuses etc, and depending on how those stack, you could possibly create a corporate state where the economy is specialized and dominated by a handful of corpos and you make up for it by trading with other states for raw materials so there are no other powerbases in your tag.
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Aug 12, 2023 14:11
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pops should generate 168 hours a week. pops should need to spend hours on activities to survive and advance. hours could be spent on things like "subsistent rest" (eating and sleeping), socializing, "leisure rest" (pops require hours to acquire and use services/goods to improve SoL), fulfillment (religious services and/or politicking), and of course, working to produce goods/earn wages. interest groups should generate active mission in the journal to give the player/AI more opportunities and pitfalls to develop their nation in particular directions. if you have a weak ig you want boosted, follow their journal entries to bring them into prominence. in addition, ig's give missions automatically, so you may find that certain economic developments you want may come at the cost of empowering an ig you dont want (i.e. you want to expand iron mines but you have an active Industrialist mission that will boost their clout after building X mining buildings). if you have an ig that is powerful enough, long enough, it can spawn missions to create "social institutions". social institutions are non-physical "firms" that "employ" pops' hours to produce special effects based on the nature of the social institution. for instance, if you have the industrialist ig powerful long enough, and you perform their capper mission of achieving high profitability and high unemployment, you can generate the "Reserve Army of Labor" social institution. unemployed lower strata pops spend hours on Reserve Army of Labor hunting for a job, increasing their personal likelihood of being hired while also providing a negative modifier on lower strata wages. the more pophours spent on this institution in a state, the greater the effect in the same state the concept of limited time split between economic productivity, social cohesion, and self-care would create the basis of meaningful ideological choices for what the nation looks like. you can have social institutions that separately modify assimilation and discrimination levels on a culture trait-by-culture trait basis based on pops' participation in them. you can have social institutions that allow workers to enhance their effective qualifications and efficiency by spending extra time going to adult education at universities. highly-radical industrial laborer pops may spontaneously generate union social institution(s) that allow them to cannibalize productive hours to reduce radicalism and marginally boost SoL. do social institutions serve profitability, or the reverse? what about social institutions that convert hours into reducing the amount of certain goods that pops need to consume for corresponding SoL increase?
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Aug 12, 2023 15:51
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Do you guys feel too much of a difference on how the AI plays with autonomous investment on/off? There have been a couple of moments where I thought it was definitely playing better, but might have been just an impression
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Aug 12, 2023 21:27
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Companies could be a pretty interesting development. I'm theorizing that they might be tied to foreign investment which is something I've heard other posters suggest as well. And if that's the case then we might get into some really interesting stuff like companies operating on a multinational level with their hooks in multiple countries. So, I say let's see where this goes. edit: one of the things the game really needs though is separating owners from the state the building is built in. This is by itself a large block on foreign investment and also creates balance issues with colonial exploitation vs. resettlement. I want to make Washington DC the beating heart of the MIC so that I can finally get positive migration attraction there. Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 01:45
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stumblebum posted:pops should generate 168 hours a week. pops should need to spend hours on activities to survive and advance. hours could be spent on things like "subsistent rest" (eating and sleeping), socializing, "leisure rest" (pops require hours to acquire and use services/goods to improve SoL), fulfillment (religious services and/or politicking), and of course, working to produce goods/earn wages. While it may be difficult to simulate I like the idea and it ties somewhat into my thoughts on what appears to me to be a main difference between Vicky 2 and 3. In 2, the main “object” you’re interacting with are the pops. You set the tax rate for different pop types, decide on the percentage of priests, bureaucrats and soldiers to strive for, create soldier battalions from specific ethnic groups, change laws based on their consciousness and militancy, and so on. Historical change and progress is felt through the changing composition of the pops in society. The rest of the gameplay mechanics latch on to and extend outward from the pop system. In Victoria 3, the “main” object of interaction is the production system. Most time is spent looking at your rural and urban factories and farms to see if they’re profitable (and if not, why) upgrade production methods and decide on which goods to produce more of to better satisfy the needs of your economy and your population. Here historical progress is primarily felt through an expanded and industrialized economy. It’s not that pops aren’t important, they are in many ways such as the IGs, but that they’re not - or at least I don’t experience them to be - what you’re mainly preoccupied with while playing. So Vic 2 is a political and social historical simulation(-ish) whereas Vic 3 is first and foremost an economical historical simulation. Neither is wrong, it’s simply a choice of what to foreground. But I’m realizing more and more that I prefer the former emphasis, and hope that future DLCs and patches build on Vic 3’s great economic core to add a more “human” feel to the historical gameplay. Less Marx, more Gramsci?
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Aug 13, 2023 06:54
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Do you guys feel too much of a difference on how the AI plays with autonomous investment on/off? I find it really bizarre it's a rule of the game and not like a law or tech option.
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Aug 13, 2023 23:09
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spectralent posted:I find it really bizarre it's a rule of the game and not like a law or tech option. it is affected by laws though? if you have it enabled then different economic laws affect who invests and how much. i think under planned economy its completely disabled but i haven't been able to play that far into the game to check
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Aug 13, 2023 23:11
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Yeah, that affects the investment pool, but whether or not the investment pool is a subsidy to construction goods costs or it's own thing that does whatever the AI's into is a game rule decision.
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Aug 13, 2023 23:14
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What are tips for a good early game? I've started my second game and this time instead of being distracted by learning the game, I'm trying to get off to a proper running start, and... it's really hard, and I don't know if I'm doing a good job or not. Also, how do you tell if you're at an okay level of deficit spending or have gone too far? Just eyeball how quickly the debt ceiling is approaching?
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Aug 14, 2023 02:31
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CapnAndy posted:What are tips for a good early game? I've started my second game and this time instead of being distracted by learning the game, I'm trying to get off to a proper running start, and... it's really hard, and I don't know if I'm doing a good job or not. Generally so long as the budget number isn't red you'll do fine. Only thing to look out for is that if youre an unrecognized power you pay more interest, and at the start of the game it can be easy to have your interest payments spiral out of control.
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Aug 14, 2023 03:53
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Agean90 posted:Generally so long as the budget number isn't red you'll do fine. Only thing to look out for is that if youre an unrecognized power you pay more interest, and at the start of the game it can be easy to have your interest payments spiral out of control. Yeah this is a pretty good indicator of when to pump the brakes. The number turns red if either you reach 50% of your credit limit, or if your balance not including temporary expenses is negative (ie you'll still be losing money if you turn off construction).
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Aug 14, 2023 07:05
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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah this is a pretty good indicator of when to pump the brakes. The number turns red if either you reach 50% of your credit limit, or if your balance not including temporary expenses is negative (ie you'll still be losing money if you turn off construction). Oh so that's why it turns red sometimes when I'm still technically positive
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Aug 14, 2023 15:14
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Recognized countries can sustain deficit spending about equal to their income from minting. Unrecognized countries pay double debt, and compound interest makes it pretty terrible to go into the red for most of the campaign.
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Aug 14, 2023 15:43
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