Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Darth Brooks: Jan 15, 2005; I do not wear this mask to protect me. I wear it to protect you from me.

Blow posted:

This is an interesting and hosed up article.

�You don�t survive that�: Ukraine sappers dice with death to clear Russian mines

Toward the end of the article they mention that Ukraine soldiers don't control the battlefield enough to use flail tanks. They would be vulnerable to artillery fire so it's up to using human beings to clear out truly massive and intensely mined fields.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 06:15

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# ? May 31, 2024 00:28

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

zone posted:

Unregulated production stuff basically, but sold in brand name bottles

tldr: vending machine vodka is a thing and vodka degradation means that the poo poo you buy in the stores contains the same stuff in the bottle as the poo poo you get out of the bottom row of the vending machine for 250 rubles. extrapolate from there what you think that quality will be

# ? Aug 14, 2023 06:17

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Darth Brooks posted:

Toward the end of the article they mention that Ukraine soldiers don't control the battlefield enough to use flail tanks. They would be vulnerable to artillery fire so it's up to using human beings to clear out truly massive and intensely mined fields.

The cluster bombs are good for creating lanes on the mine fields but to get rid of them in big areas. Yes they absolutely need to have humans do this

In terms of flail tanks, it's very easy to find those things because the amount of mines that go off makes it very loving obvious where the tank is operating.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 06:19

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

zone posted:

Unregulated production stuff basically, but sold in brand name bottles

Yes and whereas Russian vodka is made from wheat and rye, the unregulated stuff could be made from anything and everything, but likely just plain sugar.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 06:27

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Remember that story that came out recently of the Russians in Ukrainian uniform trying to be sneaky but they got blown up by their own artillery instead, thinking they were Ukrainians?

Yea the commanding officer that ordered the operation got killed during an arrest attempt

Background:
The commander had ordered the soldiers to change into Ukrainian uniforms in order to go behind our military lines, but did not tell anyone about this. As a result, 32 Russians were killed by "friendly fire."

He subsequently deserted, was known to be in the Melitopol region.

A task force was sent to apprehend the deserter. He did not want to surrender and opened fire on the police. Two employees of the occupation police were killed, four more were wounded.

The officer was killed at the scene by returning fire.

The incident happened a few days ago. The deceased Russian commander has been buried in one of the cemeteries of Melitopol, but without military honors...
--------------------------------------------

https://ria--m-tv.translate.goog/ne...&_x_tr_pto=wapp

quote:

The commander, who set the Russian military under attack by his own artillery, was killed during the arrest. It happened near the occupied Melitopol.

Earlier, we reported that in the Rabotino district of the Zaporizhia region, an officer set up a group of subordinates under the blow of his artillery . The commander, we recall, ordered the soldiers to change into Ukrainian uniforms in order to go behind our military lines, but did not tell anyone about this. As a result, 32 Russians were killed by "friendly fire".

Having done a good deed, the Russian officer deserted. A few days later, according to our telegrams from the Kremlin snuffbox channel, citing sources in the Russian General Staff, it was established that he was not hiding far from Melitopol.

A task force was sent to apprehend the deserter. He did not want to give up and opened fire on the police. Two employees of the occupation police were killed, four more were wounded.

The officer was killed on the spot by return fire.

The accident happened a few days ago. The murdered rashist was buried in one of the cemeteries of Melitopol without military honors, the telegram channel reports.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 06:35

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Not surprised he wasn't going to come quietly given the horrifying stories we've seen about Russian prisons on occupied land.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 06:38

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

zone posted:

Not surprised he wasn't going to come quietly given the horrifying stories we've seen about Russian prisons on occupied land.

The stories of Russian prisons in Russia are horrifying enough that the Russian prisons in occupied territory lead to stories such as this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-torture-ukraine-united-nations-b2391542.html?utm_source=reddit.com

Ukrainian accounts of torture 'go way beyond rogue Russian troops'
---------------------

quote:

Allegations of Ukraine�s civilians being snatched from their homes and abused in makeshift detention centres go �way beyond� the actions of rogue Russian soldiers, the UN�s special rapporteur on torture has warned.

Dr Alice Jill Edwards has written to Russian authorities detailing the accounts she has received of harrowing and widespread human rights abuses by Moscow�s troops in Ukraine since Vladimir Putin�s invasion � including electrocutions, mock executions and threats of genital mutilation.

The 22-page letter serves to put Russia on notice of the extensive war crimes allegations, and in effect triggers Moscow�s obligations to investigate them, as a party to the UN Convention Against Torture, and International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

But a two-month deadline to formally respond to the warning has now passed � with Russia failing to do so, while ignoring Dr Edwards� requests for a meeting to discuss the allegations, as she prepares to embark on a fact-finding mission in Ukraine.

Speaking exclusively to The Independent, Dr Edwards warned that consistencies in the geographically widespread testimonies she has received �show not just a pattern, but really state authorisation� by Moscow.

�This is way beyond rogue Russian soldiers, or Russian soldiers believing that this is authorised and acting accordingly,� Dr Edwards said, warning that FSB security agents are alleged to have supervised torture practices delegated to lower-rank military officials in at least three detention centres.

Her letter warns Moscow that the alleged acts of torture would amount to �crimes against humanity� if proven to be systematic or widespread, and is co-signed by UN special rapporteurs and working groups on arbitrary detention, enforced disappearances, extrajudicial executions, and the use of mercenaries.

Reacting to Moscow�s failure to respond, Dr Edwards said: �I am disappointed that Russia has not taken this opportunity to inform me � and therefore the whole international community � of action they ought to have taken, including to instruct their soldiers not to torture or use other unlawful means, and to launch investigations on the basis of the material presented.�

The Kremlin has consistently denied accusations of war crimes by its troops in Ukraine, where Kyiv�s prosecutor general�s office is reviewing more than 98,000 reports of such allegations, as the war continues to rage.

The UN experts allege that Russian troops have been targeting Ukrainian civilians in occupied areas since the invasion�s outset, particularly veterans, those deemed to be aiding Ukraine�s armed forces, critics of the war, and local authority officials.

Civilians are typically seized without a warrant at their homes or workplaces, by groups of between seven to 15 Russian troops and intelligence officials, but have also been seized in the streets and at Russian military checkpoints, the letter states.

Most were allegedly �transported blindfolded, with a bag over their heads� and �threatened, insulted, searched, and beaten�. Upon arrival at makeshift detention centres, many were forced to stand outside in �freezing temperatures, hands tied, without food and unable to use toilets�

Russian authorities� alleged refusal to acknowledge many detentions amounts to �enforced disappearances�, in what appears a tactic �used to spread terror and anguish among local population�, the UN says, adding: �Many families still do not know the fate and whereabouts of their loved ones.�

During interrogations �primarily geared� for obtaining details of Ukraine�s military strategy, or as punishment for supporting Kyiv�s forces and �[enforcing] loyalty� to Russia, torture methods would allegedly include electrocution with stun guns, and beatings, including with iron truncheons and hammers.

Detainees also allegedly suffered mock executions, threats of sexual violence, exposure to cold and bright light, and were deprived of food, clothing and medications, with some beaten for self-identifying as Ukrainian.

In one of four cases highlighted in greater detail, concerning detainees in Kharkiv and Donetsk, an entrepreneur and member of Izium�s local self-government body was seized at his home last August and held at a police station for nearly a month, in a tiny cell alongside up to eight others.

He was allegedly interrogated four times. In one two-hour session, during which he lost consciousness multiple times, he was electrocuted, had the barrel of a hunting rifle stuck in his mouth, and endured threats to shoot him in the kneecap, cut off his fingers and ears, and pull out his nails.

Russian soldiers are then claimed to have ordered him to expose his penis, before putting a knife to it and threatening to cut it off and rape him.

Following their detention, �many civilians reportedly suffered physical and psychological traumas, including bruises, hematomas, physical wounds, hallucinations, damages to internal organs, fractures and cracks in bones, extreme weight loss, sensory impairment as well as motor losses, strokes or exacerbation of chronic diseases�, the letter states.

Many require ongoing medical evaluation and treatment, and are facing serious financial constraints as a consequence, the UN experts warn.

In remarks to The Independent, Dr Edwards said: �At this stage, the consequences for Russia�s alleged violation of the torture prohibition remain primarily diplomatic and economic, rather than judicial.

�For this reason, it is important that relevant actors continue to document and collect forensic evidence of these alleged crimes for possible later prosecution, including of all those in the chain of command.�

# ? Aug 14, 2023 06:44

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1690964027747315712#m
Another piece of Russian junk got denazified near Bakhmut yesterday.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 07:06

tiaz: Jul 1, 2004; PICK UP THAT PRESENT.

Zelensky's Zealots

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

Explain counterfeit vodka to me. Like are we talking ethyl spirits or are we talking just unregulated non name brand production from secondary sources aka the tambov gangs business holdings

That's the cool part! You can't tell until you drink it

# ? Aug 14, 2023 07:13

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Now with free methanol!

# ? Aug 14, 2023 07:17

Cable Guy: Jul 18, 2005; I don't expect any trouble, but we'll be handing these out later...; Slippery Tilde

spiritual bypass posted:

Bovril Lavigne

Mods please change my username to Bovril Lavigne... tia

edit:

Burt posted:

For purely scientific reasons I can in fact confirm that this is a Russian Porn actress. I checked multiple sources just to be sure.

Good to know its in good hands.

Cable Guy fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Aug 14, 2023

# ? Aug 14, 2023 08:03

Cable Guy: Jul 18, 2005; I don't expect any trouble, but we'll be handing these out later...; Slippery Tilde

Fumble posted:

They are getting smarter

edit: tweaked

Cable Guy fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Aug 14, 2023

# ? Aug 14, 2023 08:45

Icept: Jul 11, 2001

Cable Guy posted:

edit: tweaked

loving lmao

also don't get why that officer didn't voluntarily accept to be detained, he'd just be sent back in the next round of vacuuming the prisons! what could go wrong?

# ? Aug 14, 2023 09:48

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016; Maybe I'll go where I can see stars

Cable Guy posted:

edit: tweaked

# ? Aug 14, 2023 09:50

Extra row of tits: Oct 31, 2020

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

Who knows of it was true or not but I don't doubt that American conservatives would make the trek to Russia like it's ISIS at the peak or something

A guy at my mosque joined Isis. It was weird being �the white guy that didn�t join Isis� in my community.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 09:58

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Regarding the Wagner propaganda in Poland that was showing up a few days earlier:

quote:

Poland detains Russians spreading Wagner Group propaganda

Poland has recently warned of possible provocations coming from the mercenary group currently based in neighbouring Belarus.

Polish Interior Minister Mariusz Kaminski on Monday said police and the country's Internal Security Agency had detained two people suspected of spying and other charges.

Poland has recently complained of possible provocations from the Wagner Group, currently based in neighboring Belarus.

The men were spreading material from the Russian mercenary Wagner Group in Poland's two largest cities, the minister said.

"The Internal Security Agency identified and detained two Russians who distributed propaganda materials of the Wagner Group in Krakow and Warsaw," Kaminski wrote on messaging platform X, formerly known as Twitter.

"Both were charged with espionage, among other things, and were arrested."

So much for freeze peach!
https://www.dw.com/en/poland-detains-russians-spreading-wagner-group-propaganda/a-66523668?maca=en-rss-en-all-1573-rdf

# ? Aug 14, 2023 10:02

Toxic Mental: Jun 1, 2019

Now photoshop the guy holding the broom to have a dummy peached thiccy

# ? Aug 14, 2023 10:46

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1690995516971081729#m
Can you morons go one hour without lying? not even one day, one hour would be nice

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:07

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Sophy Wackles posted:

Am I missing something or is this bread still cheaper than bread in the US?

I'm sure the Russians who earn 20 times less than Americans* are overjoyed that bread in Russia is hypothetically marginally cheaper than the homo bread in the country of the great Satan

* a number I've pulled entirely out off my rear end because I'm too lazy to look it up

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:08

armpit_enjoyer: Jan 25, 2023; my god. it's full of posts

Toxic Mental posted:

Now photoshop the guy holding the broom to have a dummy peached thiccy

is this thick enough for you

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:14

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

steinrokkan posted:

I'm sure the Russians who earn 20 times less than Americans* are overjoyed that bread in Russia is hypothetically marginally cheaper than the homo bread in the country of the great Satan

* a number I've pulled entirely out off my rear end because I'm too lazy to look it up

Russian annual average income in 2022 was 12,830 $ / 1300865 rubles and in US it was 76,370 $, so about six times over.

That loaf of bread costs 143/1300865 so about 0.00011 of annual income. So similar price in US would be about 8.4 USD.

But of course its easier to just be a tankie and yell that "bread is cheaper in Russia than in US".

EDIT: 0.00011 not 0.00011%

Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Aug 14, 2023

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:17

Potrzebie: Apr 6, 2010; I may not know what I'm talking about, but I sure love cops! ^^ Boy, but that boot is just yummy!; Lipstick Apathy

Der Kyhe posted:

Russian annual average income in 2022 was 12,830 $ / 1300865 rubles and in US it was 76,370 $, so about six times over.

That loaf of bread costs 143/1300865 so about 0.00011% of annual income. So similar price in US would be about 8.4 USD.

But of course its easier to just be a tankie and yell that "bread is cheaper in Russia than in US".

Just remove the % or two zeros please.

E: by sheer coincidence 143/1300865 is the smallest factoring of that number.

Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Aug 14, 2023

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:19

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

Der Kyhe posted:

Russian annual average income in 2022 was 12,830 $ / 1300865 rubles and in US it was 76,370 $, so about six times over.

That loaf of bread costs 143/1300865 so about 0.00011% of annual income. So similar price in US would be about 8.4 USD.

But of course its easier to just be a tankie and yell that "bread is cheaper in Russia than in US".

what's median tho

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:22

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Der Kyhe posted:

Russian annual average income in 2022 was 12,830 $ / 1300865 rubles and in US it was 76,370 $, so about six times over.

I saw a number more like $60,000 for median income (for men, $49k for women), where did you find $76k?

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:23

Wizard Master: Mar 25, 2008

HonorableTB posted:

Biden: I can go home and eat ice cream??

He sold this country a bill of goods and now the chickens are coming home to roost

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:25

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1690995363426054144

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:27

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Rust Martialis posted:

I saw a number more like $60,000 for median income (for men, $49k for women), where did you find $76k?

Maybe household? Also keep in mind the minimum wage in russia is like $150/month so it's going to be much lower than the average for many outside of big cities.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:29

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

Rust Martialis posted:

I saw a number more like $60,000 for median income (for men, $49k for women), where did you find $76k?

First Google hit on "average incomes"; https://www.worlddata.info/ It says its "mostly OECD 2022 data" but doesn't give the exact reference, and I didn't bother to confirm or crosscheck with anything else.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:31

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

Eediot Jedi posted:

what's median tho

Its the line between the traffic lanes Jedi. And don't call me Tho.

Seriously, there are so many variables involved its pointless to start arguing how much median vs. average or individual vs. household etc. affects that calculation.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:42

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

TFW you signed up to murder people in a foreign country to buy a new phone, but now your family is enjoying their leased bread with chipped frozen fish brick and are looking forward to the complementary circus show on the weekend.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:47

Icept: Jul 11, 2001

Someone who is an expert on fish bricks, how do you get like one or two for that nights dinner? Chisel?

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:51

CeeJee: Dec 4, 2001; Oven Wrangler

I must say the 12 months payment plan for the bread which comes up in total at an extra 13 cents or 0,09% compared to paying at once is quite reasonable.
Considering the effort of keeping track of these tiny monthly payments it seems too good to be true. Unless there is some mafia plot to make you sign a loan agreement with million+ fines in the small print.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:53

Mistle: Oct 11, 2005; Eckot's comic relief cousin from out of town; Grimey Drawer

Fumble posted:

They are getting smarter

"Unknown technology blyat" meme but the stick is extra long

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

The cluster bombs are good for creating lanes on the mine fields but to get rid of them in big areas. Yes they absolutely need to have humans do this

In terms of flail tanks, it's very easy to find those things because the amount of mines that go off makes it very loving obvious where the tank is operating.

Wasn't the "cluster bomb demining" thing debunked? Pretty sure the fragmentation wasn't enough to reliably set off larger mines and the erratic dispersal was too inconsistent to be reliable, meaning the benefit was mostly no different than any other explosive ordinance.

At best, Ukraine is putting cluster munitions to more effective use against trench locations and that frees up standard stuff to till a safe path for armor, but :shrug:

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:55

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

CeeJee posted:

I must say the 12 months payment plan for the bread which comes up in total at an extra 13 cents or 0,09% compared to paying at once is quite reasonable.
Considering the effort of keeping track of these tiny monthly payments it seems too good to be true. Unless there is some mafia plot to make you sign a loan agreement with million+ fines in the small print.

lmao at ''handing it to them'' for giving a reasonable interest rate for a credit plan for....bread

# ? Aug 14, 2023 11:55

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

responsible bread financing

# ? Aug 14, 2023 12:01

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

Hopefully they don't have yeastly compounding interest.

Der Kyhe posted:

Its the line between the traffic lanes Jedi. And don't call me Tho.

Seriously, there are so many variables involved its pointless to start arguing how much median vs. average or individual vs. household etc. affects that calculation.

Nah. It's worth being a pedant about average vs median.

Median is a much better metric than the average when talking about income. With the median, half the population earns more than that, half earns less. With average income, throw in a few obscenely rich people and watch it skew upwards towards meaninglessness.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 12:11

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Eediot Jedi posted:

Hopefully they don't have yeastly compounding interest.

I guess the good news is that if you don't get your bread repoed, the gluten debt stops growing at some point.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 12:15

BrassRoots: Jan 9, 2012; You can play a shoestring if you're sincere - John Coltrane

What's really interesting is the development in language of the russian soldiers. We at the front vs everyone else. There's a real sub set of society developing where soldiers feel they are the truth holders like some kind of secret society.

It used to be a bunch of double speak but now that less and less common. I kind of miss it, it has a weird creativity and tongue in cheek effect. This honesty just feels bleak.

I'm also missing the pickles doom spirals. They always gave me the warm and fuzzies.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 12:20

zone: Dec 6, 2016

BrassRoots posted:

What's really interesting is the development in language of the russian soldiers. We at the front vs everyone else. There's a real sub set of society developing where soldiers feel they are the truth holders like some kind of secret society.

It used to be a bunch of double speak but now that less and less common. I kind of miss it, it has a weird creativity and tongue in cheek effect. This honesty just feels bleak.

I'm also missing the pickles doom spirals. They always gave me the warm and fuzzies.

These days anyone that tries to talk about the truth like Girkin and Murz is being directly targeted by smaller telegram channels that only post positive news, who scream at them to not post negative situations on the front. Roman Saponkov thinks that they're following orders by the MoD to control the narrative.

# ? Aug 14, 2023 12:30

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# ? May 31, 2024 00:28

EasilyConfused: Nov 21, 2009; one strong toad

Mistle posted:

Wasn't the "cluster bomb demining" thing debunked?

Yes

# ? Aug 14, 2023 12:35

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