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A Buttery Pastry posted:Based on the numbers I could find, yeah: When I was looking at the Homelessness stats myself the thing that really popped out to me was that the variance is insane, France and the UK have much higher homelessness stats per capita than America, but then other major European countries (that you wouldn't assume would fare well in this kind of thing) like Italy, Spain and Poland are a lot better than America. I can't really ferret out a pattern here so I'm kind of curious if there are fundamental methodological differences when it comes to defining and counting what Homelessness even is between all these countries which might make the whole comparison a wash.
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Aug 13, 2023 06:59
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Yeah I'm also interested in methodology. For example in Britain a person who say lives on their friends sofa is homeless, would that person be counted as homeless in another country or would they have to living on the street?
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Aug 13, 2023 07:15
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Yeah I'm also interested in methodology. For example in Britain a person who say lives on their friends sofa is homeless, would that person be counted as homeless in another country or would they have to living on the street? Wikipedia mentions 1.5 million for the US as counted by some NGO but then goes on to say official US numbers don't count sheltered homeless. Then it gets more complicated with shelters that offer varying lengths of stay. Are you homeless if you get an apartment in a shelter for 3 months? 1 week? 1 night? What about women's shelters where people live temporarily before going back to their homes? I'm pretty sure methodology varies considerably so comparing national statistics directly isn't useful. It would have to be a study that takes the differences into account.
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Aug 13, 2023 07:35
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Yeah I'm also interested in methodology. For example in Britain a person who say lives on their friends sofa is homeless, would that person be counted as homeless in another country or would they have to living on the street? That said, a definition of homelessness that goes beyond living on the streets could explain some differences between countries, even if their definitions are the same. A country with a significant foreign student population might be continuously topped off with new homeless people, as it is not always the easiest task finding a place to live before school starts. I also wonder if the EU has managed to import US-style "let's pay our homeless people to move away" homeless solutions, despite language barriers being a much bigger issue here.
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Aug 13, 2023 07:41
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I've found an EC document with some interesting charts https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...U5N1110KZjW8jKa First, on page 24, there's a list of definitions of homelessness as formulated by surveyed officials from member countries. Just from that it's obvious that the scope of what's covered under that term is extremely variable, in some cases there is no real definition and only implicit understanding gleaned from particular provisions in social legislation. The chapter opens by lamenting the failure to introduce a standardized model of homelessness in EU census and research. Then on page 27 are member states' policies broken up as they regard people in various life situations graded by severity. However the paper notes that just because a person under a certain category is considered to be homeless, doesn't mean there are means in place to provide statistical data regarding persons in that situation. Further on the paper goes through each category and for each member provides the most recent available data and source - and it's once again obvious that the availability and quality of data fries wildly.
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Aug 13, 2023 10:00
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This is honestly one of the things the EU has been great for, improving comparability of data between member states. This seems like a prime subject for the EU to tackle. I can't really speak to the homelessness situation. There's a lot of visible homelessness in Berlin, but that seems to be a problem in other cities, too.
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Aug 13, 2023 11:42
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I found another page that had the UK at around 90k homeless on a given night in 2018, while Germany was at 860k in 2016. I can't imagine those numbers come about through the same definition. At that point my anecdotal experience of Manchester vs. Berlin seems about as accurate. One of the more tragic explanations could also be that our homeless have a much higher mortality rate.
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Aug 13, 2023 13:07
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Tesseraction posted:One of the more tragic explanations could also be that our homeless have a much higher mortality rate.
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Aug 13, 2023 13:53
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khwarezm posted:I've been reading this piece about Europe's tech industry woes and I've become increasingly concerned about Europe's endlessly grim seeming economic prospects, we don't really seem to lead on much these days and Europe's relative performance compared to America and China has been falling off sharply in the last couple of decades. If we can't make much headway in massive growth sectors like high technology, where does that leave us for the future? The Americans seem set to remain an economic colossus, but if Europe is falling off and becoming less and less relevant how can we maintain our quality of life? The times of huge growth are pretty much over for Europe as decarbonization and climate mitigation is ramping up and demographic collapse is taking hold. I'm not sure if it really makes sense to complain about "number not go up!" from a leftist perspective. The actually important metrics should not be GDP but HDI, life expectancy, social stability, education, etc. and how we are doing compared to other regions with similar nightmare demographics. A Buttery Pastry posted:Based on the numbers I could find, yeah: The number for Germany is "wohnungslose" (literally "apartmentless") and is just the number of people who would like an apartment of their own but don't have one. This includes everything from people who still live with their parents and would like to move out, to someone who moved to a different city for a job and are staying with friends or in a hotel while apartment hunting, to people literally sleeping on the street. The number of people who actually live on the street and sleep outside or in shelters is estimated to be around 40k.
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Aug 13, 2023 18:21
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https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-mateusz-morawiecki-float-migration-referendum-video-election/quote:Morawiecki's video paints a grim scenario in case more migrants were allowed into Poland, showing images of burning cars, street violence and a black man licking a knife. cool edit there's also another ballot question about privatization of state assets which PiS is against and the center-left opposition is for i say swears online fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 18:27
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khwarezm posted:I've been reading this piece about Europe's tech industry woes and I've become increasingly concerned about Europe's endlessly grim seeming economic prospects, we don't really seem to lead on much these days and Europe's relative performance compared to America and China has been falling off sharply in the last couple of decades. If we can't make much headway in massive growth sectors like high technology, where does that leave us for the future? The Americans seem set to remain an economic colossus, but if Europe is falling off and becoming less and less relevant how can we maintain our quality of life? We work hundreds of hours less per year on average than Americans, and live years longer than them on top of that. Europe's doing OK not prioritizing GDP growth and "economic prospects" above all else I'd say.  
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Aug 13, 2023 18:45
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Based on the numbers I could find, yeah: There were 262 600 people who were "wohnungslos" in Germany in 2022, but of those 38 500 were living on the street. (My source is the last report of the ministry for labour and social matters: https://www.bmas.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Soziale-Sicherung/wohnungslosenbericht-2022.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=4) quote:Based on the statistics presented here and the empirical survey, the following orders of magnitude result at the end of January/beginning of February 2022: Around 178,100 persons are accommodated in the emergency housing assistance system, another 49,300 are accommodated with friends or acquaintances (concealed homeless persons) and around 37,400 live on the street or in makeshift accommodation. Taking into account about 8,800 double registrations as well as about 6,600 minors who were not interviewed in the empirical study, but who live together with their parents on the street or in concealed homelessness (cf. chapter 5.1.1), the sum of these three groups amounts to about 262,600 homeless persons. Of these, almost two thirds (63 %) are male, a good third (35 %) are female and two percent are diverse or no information is available. As noted above, the definition in Germany for homeless people is broader than in the USA (it includes refugees who want their own place to live but can't find any and are forced to still live in refugee accommodation). But people living on the street are more numerous per capita in the USA. (And we are comparing pre-pandemic numbers for the USA with post-pandemic numbers in Germany) Trying to compare statistics on this kind of societal failure is quite difficult, of course, because quite a few governments are very invested in not allowing any transparency in the matter. But Americans seem to constantly complain about homeless people on public transit or homeless camps. Also, jfc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_children#United_States
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Aug 13, 2023 19:13
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Antigravitas posted:Trying to compare statistics on this kind of societal failure is quite difficult, of course, because quite a few governments are very invested in not allowing any transparency in the matter. But Americans seem to constantly complain about homeless people on public transit or homeless camps.
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Aug 13, 2023 19:56
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Amazing looking at this considering the respective stereotypes for Mexicans and Germans.
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Aug 13, 2023 20:11
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khwarezm posted:Amazing looking at this considering the respective stereotypes for Mexicans and Germans. Mexicans would probably have managed to complete Berlin Brandenburg airport in less than 14 years.
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Aug 13, 2023 21:33
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khwarezm posted:Amazing looking at this considering the respective stereotypes for Mexicans and Germans. Or the greeks vs ze germans
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Aug 14, 2023 05:59
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Pretty much every underclass who works themselves to the bone is stereotyped as lazy by the overclass who see them having any sort of leisure time whatsoever.
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Aug 14, 2023 06:06
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Would a non-lazy person hang out in my giant garden all day? Or literally live in vacation countries?
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Aug 14, 2023 06:13
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Blut posted:Mexicans would probably have managed to complete Berlin Brandenburg airport in less than 14 years. Hell, the American mafia could've done it faster and probably cheaper.
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Aug 14, 2023 06:18
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You just haven't understood the objective behind the BER. It successfully funnelled lots of public money into private hands over many years before they were forced to finish it.
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Aug 14, 2023 08:10
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khwarezm posted:Amazing looking at this considering the respective stereotypes for Mexicans and Germans. Obviously Germans are more efficient and therefore require less work time for equal or greater value 
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Aug 14, 2023 08:47
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GABA ghoul posted:I'm not sure if it really makes sense to complain about "number not go up!" from a leftist perspective. The actually important metrics should not be GDP but HDI, life expectancy, social stability, education, etc. and how we are doing compared to other regions with similar nightmare demographics.
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Aug 14, 2023 15:51
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Sereri posted:Obviously Germans are more efficient and therefore require less work time for equal or greater value
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Aug 14, 2023 16:08
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I wonder what the 2019 or even 2021 figures looked like. 2022 had multiple economic shocks in Europe and the UK which trashed EUR and GBP relative to USD and the recovery has been slow, so even with PPP adjustment there must be some effect on the figures. Obviously currency strength reflects various things also reflected in GDP but it does make me question how much this is EUROPE IN DECLINE versus Europe recently dealt with the economic shocks of the Ukraine invasion and Liz Truss.
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Aug 14, 2023 21:12
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Herman Merman posted:Again, this literally is what increased industrial and agricultural automation does, something Germany does pretty well compared to Mexico. A German who doesn't get humour? 
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Aug 14, 2023 21:29
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Blut posted:A German
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Aug 14, 2023 21:31
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Ah, an Austrian?
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Aug 14, 2023 21:32
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Blut posted:Mexicans would probably have managed to complete Berlin Brandenburg airport in less than 14 years. i fly airplanes posted:AMLO, who seems unable to keep away from Mexican aviation, is now ready to set another $230 million on fire https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-10/amlo-s-airline-to-take-off-with-4-billion-and-10-boeing-jets and that's USD, not Peso.
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Aug 16, 2023 12:09
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mobby_6kl posted:Well, probably, but on the other hand: Those are rookie numbers. BER went €7.5bn over budget, on an initial budget of €2.8bn. Just a casual 350%+ cost overrun. (and that extra funding wasn't to make the construction process more efficient either - it took 14 years in the end, instead of the initial 5)
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Aug 16, 2023 15:29
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Owling Howl posted:Wikipedia mentions 1.5 million for the US as counted by some NGO but then goes on to say official US numbers don't count sheltered homeless. Then it gets more complicated with shelters that offer varying lengths of stay. Are you homeless if you get an apartment in a shelter for 3 months? 1 week? 1 night? What about women's shelters where people live temporarily before going back to their homes? A Buttery Pastry posted:I found another page that had the UK at around 90k homeless on a given night in 2018, while Germany was at 860k in 2016. I can't imagine those numbers come about through the same definition. At that point my anecdotal experience of Manchester vs. Berlin seems about as accurate. From memory, so take this with a grain of salt, but Germany defines homeless as all adults who don't have a registered home address. So if you e.g. are too slow to immediately get your government ID when you turn 18 and register your parent's home as your home address, welp if the government does a census before you rock up and get your ID-card, your dumb rear end will also be counted as homeless. And sometimes the system can get screwy, I remember a scandal from the past where this marvelous system of counting managed to put two big dogs down as citizens with a registered home address, and kept sending their owners tax paperwork because the dogs hadn't declared any income. To be on the safe side, I suggest halving every government-issued count of homeless people in Germany. Edit: Foreign students in Germany would have a Aufenthaltsgenehmigung, and so wouldn't be counted as homeless, until they actually live on the streets and a government official goes around making a headcount, which  nopeAs far as the German government is concerned, foreign students already have a home: It's just not in Germany Libluini fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Aug 19, 2023 |
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Aug 19, 2023 13:58
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The Economist had a good article (a few, actually) on Germany last week that had a choice quote relating to German bureaucracy:quote:"Even optimists are losing hope. “Artificial intelligence is often irrelevant for us, because there is no ai for a fax machine yet,” sighs Ann Cathrin Riedel, who runs next, an advocacy group that seeks to digitise public bureaucracies. https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/08/17/the-german-economy-from-european-leader-to-laggard It always sounds impressively awfully luddite there. I don't know how people deal with it, in most of the rest of wealthy/Northern Europe public services are pretty rapidly evolving with technology these days.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:53
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Blut posted:
When today's decision-makers in Germany were in their 30s, the country was at the forefront of global technology. Now, as they're over 60, many resist change, often saying, "Things have always worked this way; why change them now?" A similar phenomenon is happening in Japan for the same reasons.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:38
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And yet where is Germany's answer to the Playstation 5, I shout angrily at my Amazon Alexa.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:20
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Blut posted:The Economist had a good article (a few, actually) on Germany last week that had a choice quote relating to German bureaucracy: I wonder if fes level in eidas (checkbox) has been a german idea if that's article is accurate. I have to digitize every process at work at gunpoint and those fuckers still run comms over faxes.
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Aug 22, 2023 07:03
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Honj Steak posted:When today's decision-makers in Germany were in their 30s, the country was at the forefront of global technology. Now, as they're over 60, many resist change, often saying, "Things have always worked this way; why change them now?" Plus of course the old neoliberal "the state doing anything that costs money is bad" maxim getting in the way. Just a few weeks ago the ministry of the interior released a budget where the amount of money for the overall digitization of the bureaucracy was cut from some 370 million down to 3.3 million, with a half-hearted promise that they'll probably find the remaining money from some unused expenses. Similar digitization projects also saw substantial cuts of up to 50%. All this on the behest of the ministry of finance, currently held by the supposedly liberal party FDP. The same guys who are constantly crowing about how important technology and digitization are, but of course in practice literally the only things they actually do are austerity and corruption.
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Aug 22, 2023 10:24
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A lot of german suppliers asked to partecipate in pnrr projects in our field and then honestly we felt like talking to martians when asked "Why are you asking us for digital signatures sent over REM? We don't even know what a REM is" or "why doesn't a standard paper invoice do? What even is a digital invoice?". We need them so we had to hold their hand but it's unnerving.
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Aug 22, 2023 10:41
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I hate to hand it to the FDP, and I want to be absolutely clear that I am absolutely not doing that, but just spending money on digitising won't do poo poo. That budget is better viewed as an FDP slush fund to funnel public money into FDP beneficiaries pockets. All the problems I have at work boil down to old people sitting in leadership roles purely by seniority, the pay scale in public sector being extremely insane and unappealing (lmao at offering 45k p.a. for a programmer with 10 years of experience because they haven't studied, and 50k if they have), and the pay grades being extremely inflexible. The result of all that is a public sector run by olds who can't fill IT positions with competent people, and the few competent people they can get who genuinely want to work in the public sector get burned out immediately. So they have to contract out (if they can), but can't at all determine just how much the contractors are loving them over. And it's all for nothing anyway, because without organisational buy-in IT can't change poo poo about processes. The problem is entirely structural and primarily at the state level, not federal.
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Aug 22, 2023 10:51
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Antigravitas posted:The problem is entirely structural and primarily at the state level, not federal. Digitizing public sector is something that need to be pushed from the top, otherwise it's going to be a hodgepodge of non-intercommunicating systems purchased from the state rather fed friends. Like medical cms that doesn't talk from a county to the other requiring patients to get a printout to deliver to the other county medic.
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Aug 22, 2023 10:57
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Most of those matters are state matters though. You won't see the federal state telling the states what to do in that area without the states' consent. As an side: The medical thing is changing slowly. You no longer need to get a paper sick note from your doctor, hand one version to your employer and send the other to your health insurer for example. That's now digitised and automatic (thank gently caress), and the electronic patient records are slowly being rolled out as well.
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Aug 22, 2023 11:30
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Antigravitas posted:Most of those matters are state matters though. You won't see the federal state telling the states what to do in that area without the states' consent.
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Aug 22, 2023 11:46
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